Then the only people left playing the game, would be that guy too broke to buy a new game and the gw fanboy who only sits in town to chat with people.
Will nerfing SF really help anything to do with the game?
HuntMaster Avatar
I just want them to keep nerfing everything. But what would be really awesome, is if they just removed ectos/shards/keys/titles/elite areas from the game.
Then the only people left playing the game, would be that guy too broke to buy a new game and the gw fanboy who only sits in town to chat with people.
Then the only people left playing the game, would be that guy too broke to buy a new game and the gw fanboy who only sits in town to chat with people.
Hantex Brinx
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Originally Posted by moriz
will it help the game at this point? not really. however, that is irrelevant. no online game, especially one that claims to be a competitive RPG, should EVER have a godmode option. for that reason alone, SF deserves to die.
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Martin Alvito
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Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
When SF exploit farming is gone my stacks of ectos will buy me a lot more stuff and as George Carlin said we can never have enough stuff.
 ) It will be nice to see ecto prices go back up to 8k-9k or more again. ) |
Airstu
@ op - No.
12 chars
12 chars
Reformed
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
Not gonna happen. Obs Flesh + run speed cons = just as fast as current UWSC. You just have to invest another plat or two per player per run. That'll drive up ecto prices somewhat, but not into the range you specify.
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Steps_Descending
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Originally Posted by ElementalShadows
imho, i dont think nerfing SF will do anything major or anything close to major to the economy. For speedclears the time will be 5-10minutes more, for running there's still warriors, ranger, dervishes, most any profession can run.
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Nerfing it won't really do much, some people will try PuG untill the new tank comes along (25k on ObsiEle) where SCs will just take a couple more minute. (unless SCs require the group to split...)
There are a lot of classes capable of running.
BUT... at least now (hopefully) the fragile speedster class wont also be the (night literally-)invinsible tank. The tank/runner job will come back to class for whom it "makes sense" to run. Warrior (high survivability), ranger (running AND blocking stance, need I say more), Derv ( they have a self buff tree for a reason : survive).
See? we don't really hate having UWSC and runnners, we (that means : I) hate the fact that it is the rogue/theif-like class that does those 2 jobs in a way that doesn't make sense for that class to do it.
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Originally Posted by obsidian ectoplasm
Bring back Ursan please.
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moriz
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Originally Posted by Hantex Brinx
How is pve competitive isn't that pvp? Pve is just to have fun and/or farm.
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either way it doesn't matter. godmode should not exist.
Skyy High
I just think it makes zero sense for them to have killed Ursanway, and leave in SF at its current power. That's my beef: consistency.
JimmyNeutron
Like I said before, you want to nerf PERMA, make DP and SF cost 25 and 5sec cast time.
Also, all enemies now have enchantment removal like Incubus throughout the entire area and on every level.
Have fun!!!
Also, all enemies now have enchantment removal like Incubus throughout the entire area and on every level.
Have fun!!!
Warvic
2/3 years to late for that. why did they ruin this game.. 
Steps_Descending
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Originally Posted by JimmyNeutron
Like I said before, you want to nerf PERMA, make DP and SF cost 25 and 5sec cast time.
Also, all enemies now have enchantment removal like Incubus throughout the entire area and on every level. Have fun!!! |
Shadow Form : For 1...25 (at 16 SA), all attack and spells targeted against you fail. 60 sec cooldown, random cost, 1 sec casting time
Basically :Bring back SF to full power (that means remove the dmg penalty), then make it last 25 sec a 16 shadow Arts. That means the longest you can make it last is 30 sec (unless there is something else that can lenghten enchants for a sin beside mod). And the cooldown can be brought down to maximum 30 sec. So when Sf ends, the cooldown ends, you can cast it right away... but there is a 1 sec window where you,re open to attacks and can be interupted. basically you can't tank but you can be invincible if you are not under fire.
Actually a monk could still Mark of Protection you while you cast it... so it may not be that good...
alluring athena
nerfing SF will simply be nerfing fun for a small % of people.
It will have no other affect
With GW 4 1/2 years old stop trying to nerf fun and wast time with this topic over and over and over
and over
It will have no other affect
With GW 4 1/2 years old stop trying to nerf fun and wast time with this topic over and over and over
and over
Martin Alvito
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Originally Posted by moriz
cue martin alvito claiming pve is competitive!
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Grind Wars itself (PvE) isn't competitive. But getting the money for high-end stuff is a competitive process. It's who wants it bad enough (time) and who can find a way to game PvE most efficiently (skill). Generally time can only partially substitute for skill, so developing exploits and keeping them quiet has value to players.
When people find stupid efficient ways to game PvE that become popular, the nerf bat is needed. Otherwise the rest of PvE starts to die from lack of activity, the game becomes stale, and PvE dies. It may not be immediately obvious that PvE is dying, because people enter the broken farm to replace those that exit from boredom initially. But eventually the entire system becomes a deserted, bankrupt ghost town.
Sound familiar to anyone?
The reason that PvE dies is too complicated to rehash the proof of here, but suffice it to say that all the money-motivated players rationally flow to where the best pickings are. (There's a lot of them; if you don't believe me, I give you RR as Exhibit A.) If anything gets too far out of whack for long enough, sticky communities (eg: UWSC) spring up and then the devs are in a no-win situation. Kill UWSC and people leave. Don't and people leave.
Anyway, nerfing SF alone won't do anything productive, because there are near substitutes (Obs Flesh) for most applications. The near substitute also needs a nerf. The jury is still out on 605/Smite. Arguably it's needed a nerf for a long time, but it pales next to the power of SF.
Atro
SF buff woot do it do it
move the dmg redux and make it last 60 sec haha
But Athena is absolutely right.
move the dmg redux and make it last 60 sec haha
But Athena is absolutely right.
Oster
Killing SF will hurt my VSF. Please no.
Bryant Again
As terrible of a skill idea SF was, nerfing it won't solve the problem.
If ANet really wanted to put a stop to farming, they would've fixed the AI.
Sadly it looks like they want farming to exist, but they don't want it to be that good - which is a pretty weird stance. It's like saying "we don't want our game to be too broken, just pretty broken".
If ANet really wanted to put a stop to farming, they would've fixed the AI.
Sadly it looks like they want farming to exist, but they don't want it to be that good - which is a pretty weird stance. It's like saying "we don't want our game to be too broken, just pretty broken".
Martin Alvito
Broken is always a relative concept. Things are broken relative to the best available alternative(s).
If farming is good, but not THAT good, that is balance. Farmers get rewarded enough to farm. People that like to group don't get screwed too badly for playing their preferred style. That's how ANet wants it. They need to sell games to both groups to maximize revenue.
If farming is good, but not THAT good, that is balance. Farmers get rewarded enough to farm. People that like to group don't get screwed too badly for playing their preferred style. That's how ANet wants it. They need to sell games to both groups to maximize revenue.
byteme!
As long as SF itself isn't touched people will find a way to UWSC again somehow. Give it time. There are farmers and SC'ers out there who are willing to take up the challenge of breaking the game again. I'm 1 of them. Cya soon.
Targren
It won't change a thing, other than maybe raising ecto prices.
People will never PUG for "balanced" groups again. The fact that they ever did in the first place is more a function of the inexperience of the playerbase than to be blamed on any skill. You don't PUG elite areas. It's a waste of time and money. Even with UWSC, PUGs are a last resort and generally not worth the risk.
Nerfing shadow form to unusability because Anet is stupid enough to listen to people who say things like "SF is *everywhere*, you can't get a PUG for FoW or UW anymore!" (as if those two areas are "everywhere") will just reduce the number of ways to do things in, for many, what is an already stale game. If the remaining ways are sufficiently slow, annoying, or difficult, they just won't be done.
It hardly matters anymore, and we all know Anet doesn't care about "balance" so much as they just listen to the vocal minority of whiners, so.. yeah. Big deal.
That's not a good idea. That's the same as every other idea: Smiter's boon SF. It doesn't matter the specifics, the fact is simple: If SF is non-maintainable and retains the 90% life loss, it's pretty much worthless, particularly in the number-pumped charlie-foxtrot that is hard mode.
Edit:
Looks like the new build made a lot of UW changes... Some pretty vaguely described. I'm wondering if that's to make it at least take some exploration to determine what needs to be changed. Could this be the UWSC nerf?
People will never PUG for "balanced" groups again. The fact that they ever did in the first place is more a function of the inexperience of the playerbase than to be blamed on any skill. You don't PUG elite areas. It's a waste of time and money. Even with UWSC, PUGs are a last resort and generally not worth the risk.
Nerfing shadow form to unusability because Anet is stupid enough to listen to people who say things like "SF is *everywhere*, you can't get a PUG for FoW or UW anymore!" (as if those two areas are "everywhere") will just reduce the number of ways to do things in, for many, what is an already stale game. If the remaining ways are sufficiently slow, annoying, or difficult, they just won't be done.
It hardly matters anymore, and we all know Anet doesn't care about "balance" so much as they just listen to the vocal minority of whiners, so.. yeah. Big deal.
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Originally Posted by Steps_Descending
Know what, I think I have an even better idea, How's this :
Shadow Form : For 1...25 (at 16 SA), all attack and spells targeted against you fail. 60 sec cooldown, random cost, 1 sec casting time Basically :Bring back SF to full power (that means remove the dmg penalty), then make it last 25 sec a 16 shadow Arts. That means the longest you can make it last is 30 sec (unless there is something else that can lenghten enchants for a sin beside mod). And the cooldown can be brought down to maximum 30 sec. So when Sf ends, the cooldown ends, you can cast it right away... but there is a 1 sec window where you,re open to attacks and can be interupted. basically you can't tank but you can be invincible if you are not under fire. |
Edit:
Looks like the new build made a lot of UW changes... Some pretty vaguely described. I'm wondering if that's to make it at least take some exploration to determine what needs to be changed. Could this be the UWSC nerf?
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
Broken is always a relative concept. Things are broken relative to the best available alternative(s).
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On the other hand, like you've said, ANet needs to cater to those who want to earn income/drops by themselves, so that I agree with.
But that's where I just say "bring some heroes".
Cuilan
It would allow new build ideas to surface, let more players to have fun, and have you use professions because you enjoy them?
You should have and build skill anyway. o.O
I PUG "elite" areas and do just fine, but then again I'm leader.
Yet you're against people having fun.
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Originally Posted by killerbot3009
It will also make the HoM monuments for Elite areas a lot harder to get, due to the skill required to clear such areas.
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Originally Posted by Targren
You don't PUG elite areas. It's a waste of time and money. Even with UWSC, PUGs are a last resort and generally not worth the risk.
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Originally Posted by Hantex Brinx
Pve is just to have fun and/or farm.
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Akaraxle
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Originally Posted by killerbot3009
Please share thoughts on the matter.
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Pleikki
Tbh. only nerfing SF wont make difference. i think they should also do someting to terras. and even Areas.. .. .
Zebideedee
Hopefully it will help A-Net balance the professions more in GW2. I remember reading (before the SF abuse) that Assassins sucked, well, one way to make them not suck is allow them to permasin. Thats like typing godmode in your tilde/console in Halflife 2 because you suck at fps.
suprise facial
All this whining for them to get rid of SF for the sake of UW and FoW...guess what? aside from warriors and maybe rangers any proffession can come into uwsc's so long as they are inventive enough to make a build that works for an area. I've seen nec chambers, monk pits, eles run wild, dervs doing pits/vale, mesmer doing chamber, ritualists running vale support (and from what ive heard coming up with a new all rit uwsc) so instead of bitching and whining about how its unfair to you, figure out how to include yourself. If A-Net really wanted to nerf it, all they would have to include is a touch skill that rips enchants, or an aoe...course that would really screw up all you hypocrits rolling 55's and 600 builds to farm smite crawlers.
Deakon
Length of SF reduced by 1 second for every party member over 6. That would be funny.
N E D M
Shadow farm (puposeful mispelling) is EZ skill to nerf
FORM SKILL - You assume the form of the shadow -
srsly its already called form anyways
FORM SKILL - You assume the form of the shadow -
srsly its already called form anyways
X-Plosiv
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Originally Posted by Deakon
Length of SF reduced by 1 second for every party member over 6. That would be funny.
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S_Serpent
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Originally Posted by Reformed
Those same people seem to think with SF out of the way they will be able to run whatever shitter build they want in PuGs call it "balanced" and achieve similar results. Unfortunately for them so long as superior alternatives exist that will never ever happen. Ironic too that this same crowd complains about being forced to play a certain way while demanding that others change their play style to accommodate them. SF is broken sure, but enough already.
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Nice summary!!!
Not much will change, farmers will jump on something else be it buildwise or farmwise, pugs will still fail and the the crowds will go beckering on the newest meta.
It will never end ...
Sha Noran
I used a low armor, invincible caster tank for all my high end groups for quite a long time before Shadow Form ever existed, and that will continue after it is nerfed off the face of Tyria. Assassins are not PvE chars, so brace for whine fest when they get it in the can.
Yawgmoth
It's waay too late but it should still be done ASAP. Such a ridiculously overpovered skill simply shouldn't exist, it's broken way beyond UWSC or a few other popular runs.
The nerf also shouldn't make ectos more expensive than they are now, if you remember ectos were actually cheaper than they are now just before SF was buffed to absurd power level.
The nerf also shouldn't make ectos more expensive than they are now, if you remember ectos were actually cheaper than they are now just before SF was buffed to absurd power level.
Laraja
It's odd how people are wringing their hands over this.
A SF nerf would effect such a miniscule number of players compared to the overall population. So, does the majority of GW players really give a shit about any of this? Probably not. I think the vast majority don't even look at this website or even understand any of this, they just play the game. It's just a game. What a concept. The vast majority don't farm. They don't want to, and moreover, they could care less that other people can farm or SC or whatever the current uber thing is to do among the very miniscule number of elite players.
So what do I think? I hope SF isn't nerfed because why ruin the fun for the small amount of people who like to game the system. Let them have their fun. What more could a game developer want then a bunch of uber nerds spending every waking hour trying to figure out how to combine spells for optimal use of energy and health? Why slap these people down?
So, in the end, nerf or not really doesn't effect the majority of players. Leave SF as is.
A SF nerf would effect such a miniscule number of players compared to the overall population. So, does the majority of GW players really give a shit about any of this? Probably not. I think the vast majority don't even look at this website or even understand any of this, they just play the game. It's just a game. What a concept. The vast majority don't farm. They don't want to, and moreover, they could care less that other people can farm or SC or whatever the current uber thing is to do among the very miniscule number of elite players.
So what do I think? I hope SF isn't nerfed because why ruin the fun for the small amount of people who like to game the system. Let them have their fun. What more could a game developer want then a bunch of uber nerds spending every waking hour trying to figure out how to combine spells for optimal use of energy and health? Why slap these people down?
So, in the end, nerf or not really doesn't effect the majority of players. Leave SF as is.
Lishy
I think uwsc should be nerfed, but not SF.
SF is fun for those that don't abuse it. And it's great for tank n' spank.
However, if uwsc is removed, players will just complain about the next farming build. I bet the next QQ victim is Hundred Blades.
Furthermore, Anet will need to make new gimmicks. Players, at this point, see UWSC as a minigame of some sort and have real fun doing it. Just nerfing it on the spot, even if it is broken, is as bad as removing content. So in logic, they'd have to have a back up plan otherwise it is a downgrade to the game, in a way, despite it being "broken". Since it removes that "minigame"
SF is fun for those that don't abuse it. And it's great for tank n' spank.
However, if uwsc is removed, players will just complain about the next farming build. I bet the next QQ victim is Hundred Blades.
Furthermore, Anet will need to make new gimmicks. Players, at this point, see UWSC as a minigame of some sort and have real fun doing it. Just nerfing it on the spot, even if it is broken, is as bad as removing content. So in logic, they'd have to have a back up plan otherwise it is a downgrade to the game, in a way, despite it being "broken". Since it removes that "minigame"
Laraja
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Originally Posted by suprise facial
All this whining for them to get rid of SF for the sake of UW and FoW...guess what? aside from warriors and maybe rangers any proffession can come into uwsc's so long as they are inventive enough to make a build that works for an area. I've seen nec chambers, monk pits, eles run wild, dervs doing pits/vale, mesmer doing chamber, ritualists running vale support (and from what ive heard coming up with a new all rit uwsc) so instead of bitching and whining about how its unfair to you, figure out how to include yourself. If A-Net really wanted to nerf it, all they would have to include is a touch skill that rips enchants, or an aoe...course that would really screw up all you hypocrits rolling 55's and 600 builds to farm smite crawlers.
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Actually a 4 man ranger trap team pwns the crap out of the UW. You can't SC but NM is so easy it's a joke, HM is almost a joke, too. Set traps, lure and things die instantly. You don't need a different build for pits, or pools or chambers or whatever, just a straight trap build with easy to get skills, no slogging through EotN to get special spells, and off you go with 3 buddies. One of my favorite things to do.
reaper with no name
The problems SF poses go beyond just UW and FoW. If all it was good for was farming certain areas (as the 55 monk is), then there wouldn't be much of a problem. However, as it is, there's really not much point in playing anything other than a SF sin in the majority of PvE, since it just curbstomps it. To leave SF as it currently exists is to say to the PvE playerbase "Eh, don't bother with all those other classes, they're just there to make the assassin look better by comparison". It's broken, crowds out other classes/builds, and generally just defeats the purpose of playing the game.
And if you think SF's effects on the game are over and done with, think again. So far most of what we've seen is SF wreaking havoc on the economy and taking over high-end areas. But it's not going to end there. Even Anet admits that SF is now being used for things as simple as VQs. That's how bad it's gotten, and will continue to get until it is fixed. If the trend continues, we will eventually reach a point where SF dominates not only high-end PvE and farming, but also standard PvE as well.
And if you think SF's effects on the game are over and done with, think again. So far most of what we've seen is SF wreaking havoc on the economy and taking over high-end areas. But it's not going to end there. Even Anet admits that SF is now being used for things as simple as VQs. That's how bad it's gotten, and will continue to get until it is fixed. If the trend continues, we will eventually reach a point where SF dominates not only high-end PvE and farming, but also standard PvE as well.
Cuilan
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Originally Posted by suprise facial
aside from warriors and maybe rangers any proffession can come into uwsc's so long as they are inventive enough to make a build that works for an area. I've seen nec chambers, monk pits, eles run wild, dervs doing pits/vale, mesmer doing chamber, ritualists running vale support (and from what ive heard coming up with a new all rit uwsc) so instead of bitching and whining about how its unfair to you, figure out how to include yourself.
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I've figured it out already. SF or speed clears need to have something done about them.
Martin Alvito
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Originally Posted by Falynn Firestorm
Actually a 4 man ranger trap team pwns the crap out of the UW.
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Speed matters. If you make a unique snowflake build, and it works but is slow, you won't be able to play with skilled players. The basic issue is the repeatability of the quest as "content", because this rewards minimizing time invested in clearing the quest and forces everyone to collapse on the global optimum.
Targren
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Originally Posted by Cuilan
Really? How? I'd be kicked a thousand times.
I've figured it out already. SF or speed clears need to have something done about them. |
QueenofDeath
Quote:
| if you remember ectos were actually cheaper than they are now just before SF was buffed to absurd power level. |
) Poor people will remain poor and have to work even harder to get anything valueable in the game from that point on.
fowlero
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Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
That's because Ursans brought in a lot of ectos to the economy. Once SF is nerfed and the time to clear goes up Ecto prices will go sky high and many of us will be richer than we are now.
) Poor people will remain poor and have to work even harder to get anything valueable in the game from that point on. |
They're been 5-6k since before ursan, nothing happened when ursan got nerfed, and they've barely changed since uwsc started, so i don't think it'll change when it ends either.