The Costume Brawl Thread

Shit, man... I can Photoshop better than that with Paint, or is that what you used?
My Kung Fu is stronger.

Some people sync so they don't get random "scrubs" as you called them n their team. Sure its easier to win if you sync but its still not an autowin, you still got to play better than other sync teams as well Zzzz and those players like Ding and Howls that you see in the pictures (btw are not photoshopped...your kung fu sucks ahaha) know how to play good split cap tactics. So stop crying because they're so much better than you kkthxbye.

lolol I like how you think its impossible for u to get that many wins so othr ppl cannot get it too, im sorry but it is not photoshop cuz i can provide u with as many screens as u want.
now for the sync business... the question is not whether or not i synced, i admit that i did, anet said they fixed sync and yet we can still sync lol? either im just pro haxx or anet just fails.
Also, if you sync, you win? lol? what kind of fallacious logic is that? If i sync 5pve noobs I still cant win. The win depends on the actual skill of the player. Now if you say that syncing=winning, then plz show me concrete proof that any other sync team has the wins my team got. So far this yr the longest streak that another sync team has gotten besides ours was 62. Reality check: getting 109 wins is not as easy as you think, if you think other wise, then prove it. In fact, name me one r8 or r9 skillz player that has NEVER synced to get gamer pts. Can you?
Geuss what.. i also have a question for you people who say syncing is bad:
did U sync? If you have never ever synced before, then i admire your consistency, but plz dont expect every1 else to think like you. If you have synced before, with friends, guilds, etc...then stop with your hypocrisy
and for those of you who atk my screen rather then my argument....plz learn to comprehend: the screen is only practical, optional evidence that i chose to give at my discretion ON TOP OF MY ARGUMENT. In other words, my argument regarding capping vs fighting still works perfectly, even if i did not post the screens at all. It is quite funny that only 1 person out of all the replies criticize my actual argument rather than resort to complaining about the screen/syncing etc.

You admit to syncing a full team. I only wanted verification of this so I can safely say that syncing is the major part of why you get such long streaks. A fully synced pve team will also get a long streak, not 100 wins but probably good streaks. The fact that you show up here bragging how good you are when you bring in 4 other presumably individually competent players(and choosing your optimal team setup) just shows how deluded you are.

Put another way: Syncing alone pretty much guarantees that you will get a long streak. This fact completely overshadows any pro tactics or individual skill you may possess. You could run a subpar tactic and get that many wins thinking you have the ultimate strategy because of your long streak. To find out if your strategy truly is superior you'd have to go up against another synced team with some skill and experience, and the chances of that happening in CB are pretty slim.

Hope those prestiguous gamer points are working out for you.

Now to start with... remember I have never said not to fight. I said it is unadvantageous to fight unless youre winning in caps, this is refering to an equally matched opponent(the same with all my other statements). If you say you can fight an equally matched team, while not having the advantage in shrines...gg. Now that is just like saying you can win a gvg by giving the opposing guild +240 health +energy,etc(if you can do that then Id liek to see you own some face in the next mat).
And according to you, my team would get owned by buildwars. lololol? nice yoke. Just take our 100 wins for example, we played against almost every type of build...4sin1monk spike, 3sin 2monks, 1/2eles+mesmer+sins, you name it. And yet if our team gets out built we would lose? Mind you we never tried to play the same build, liek i said before we played most of the professions. As for rangers are bad....lol maybe you have not playedthat much pvp? there are insane rangers out there that can do unbelievable things.(unfortuneately many have quit this game, like most people i know) The ranger we had was one of them.
Ok, so you continue to misrepresent my insisting the importance of capping, and you challenge me to give an example where i can out cap the opponent in the start without fighting. I will provide you with one of many scenarios we had in our matches, lets take your pikkup map for example:
My team sttarts out 2-3, 2 to cap the closer health shrine, 3 to cap energy
The opposing team starts out 5-0 to the other health shrine, in order to cap your "priceless" BC.
My team splits the 2 people, 1 stays at health shrine to finish the cap, the other goes on across the bridge to cap the other one. The 3 at energy shrine sends 1 to help cap the other health shrine, 1 to cap center, and the last 1 stays to finish capping energy.
The opposing team finishes capping their health shrine and rushes BC.
My team finishes capping the closer health shrine and energy, almost finish capping center, and neutralized the opposing team's health shrine. Now by this time there is 1 person at the closer health shrine, 2 at center, and 2 at the opposing teams health shrine.
The opposing team finishes capping BC. Now here they have 4 options:
1.mob 1 of the shrines, in which case the players on my team that is at that shrine will just back up, and the rest of the team rush BC
2.wait and try to defend BC from my team, in which case my team just simply have sit there and chill, and watch our morale grow 4x faster than the opposing team
3.split up and CAP, while in the process try to fight, maybe(but considering my team has +240 health and energy advantage...ok...)
4.give up/resign/ragequit, gg
Now you may object that this opposing team is total noob and stupid to start a game like that, but i can only tell you: im sorry but believe it or not people REALLY ARE that stupid, and yes SYNC teams we fought did this too(numerous times!).
Finally, Id like to comment on your view on kiling. No, if you kill one thing, your team does not have the automatic advantage. Thats a huge misunderstanding. Just consider this: your team tries to kill a sin whos running away, the sin keeps running and your team sends 2 or 3 people to kill him. Now if you do not manage to kill the sin quickly, your team will suffer a loss of 1 or 2 or even 3 people until then. If the sin lures these people to a remote location, such as the front of his base, then your people will take even longer to get back.
Now you run out of arguments and resort to the "you play way too much, you no lifer" accusation. All i can say that is...lol. Ask any one who actually acomplished something, whether in game or in life, do they not put in any effort or time at all?

Sigh....plz just drop this alrdy. I mean, read my post. which one of the gw pvp "random" formats haven't been synced? Ok so you may think syncing is bad, but does it do anything to stop these people who sync?
And i am not deluded, again, read my post, i said the screens i gave was only OPTIONAL EVIDENCE that i chose to give ON TOP of my fundemental arguments concerning capping and fighting. If you would like to post hater comments on how i got my epic streak...so be it, it only makes it even more epic. But if you are any decent at comprehending, you should focus on my arguments on the cb tactics. If you do not have anythiing to say about my arguments, then i assume you agree with me.
Now, in regards to the "optimal setup",nah... we care more about player skills(yes, player skills!) than the builds. If you actually read my posts fully, then you would not post something liek this... But just to clarify where i stand: if you do well on capping, you will win, being able to fight is only an asset on top of that.

Your man crossing the bridge just got hit with winter's embrace and a sin teleported in on him. You're down 1 guy looking at a 4v5 scenario where you hold center, energy and 1 health shrine. Noob pve sync holds bc and 1 health shrine. Not looking too good for you at this point imo.

Please.... read my previous posts and understand them fully before u comment like this. I said the capping/splitting should not be taht rigid, and should be flexible in accordance with the situation. Obviously, if there is an ele, the player crossing the bridge will know to stay back until they pass.

If I am to read your post will you read mine? I'm not posting hater comments, I'm just pointing out that your success with syncing might have led you believe your tactics(no matter what they are) are superior, while it's mostly attributable to having a fully synced team. (Possibly with vent for all I know)

If you are interested in my view on tactics it can be somewhat summarized as: Capping and holding(defending) battle cry takes top priority. Health shrines are important, neutralizing them may be sufficient. I will only cap energy and morale shrines if it's convenient to do so(no better option currently available). I will split on all maps by default but think going 5-0 on that forest-bridgy map can work out.(especially when you don't sync and have vent running) Will also go 5-0 if red on the 3 shrine map, 4-1 if blue. 3-1-1 on the grassy slightly tilted map. Winning the game is done by holding a majority of the vital shrines and engaging in combats with equal or numerical advantage. Now you tell me if we are in agreement or not.

But the other team should be rigid? Even if they send 5 to bc it's pointless to have all 5 wait on health for it to cap, just as it's pointless to have 5 standing at bc after that waiting for the cap. They could send 3 ahead to cap bc at once, or they could send 1-2 towards center while 3-4 cap bc shutting off that bridge, possibly forcing your center capper off the shrine. You then have your team cut off in 3 segments and the opposing team has a permanent speed boost. Having voice communication can possibly remedy some of this inferiority in positioning/movement but I'd say the chances are pretty high that one of your splits will get snared and dispatched.

You are right and wrong.

You are right in that syncing is essential to getting a long streak (100-200+).

You are wrong in saying that 5 random PvE players can easily streak. There are 2 reasons. Primarily, build wars doesn't dominate. Healers are not overpowered, and everyone uses the same build per class. Actually, there was no single dominating team composition, as far as I could see. Thus, costume brawl is both HIGHLY strategic and highly tactical. A team with better a capping strategy will have a HUGE advantage. Further, a PvP players will ALWAYS beat out PvE players, and with the number of syncs happening during costume brawl, your run could easily be cut short.

Second, syncing is actually NOT easy to do. Usually, your sync ends up being split in to 2-3 teams, and getting 5 people together is a low probability exception. This seemed to be the case even in districts that that looked completely empty. So unless you planned and were capable of completing 100+ runs, syncing probably wouldn't even be worth the set up time.

The chances were actually VERY high. I faced 11 other sync teams the entire event in all, even when I didn't sync myself. You probably feel this way because you played maybe a dozen games the entire event.

I'm unbiased on this, and I have to agree with Thevil King here about the tactics (leaving out what I think about sync). I understand the argument for giving BC the highest precedence, but sometimes it is untenable. In the scenario you guys are talking about, one team basically mobs BC grabbing health on the way, while the other splits and neutralizes health behind the mob. Once the mob team caps BC they are momentarily at an advantage, but it disappears quickly.

The situation after the initial mobbing has already been laid out.

1) Leaving BC towards center allows the splitting team to get the second health, while simultaneously moving with most (or all) of their team to start neutralizing BC. If you think you have time to move back from center and gank them with your speed boost, good luck getting any kills when the split team has both health shrines and is converging from all angles to make it a 5v5.

2) Leaving BC as a mob toward your old health shrine means the guy that came in behind to neutralize will just run away, probably back under the bridge and wrap around to meet his team who should already be capping BC. This is a huge loss of time.

I think Hallvard agrees that both of these situations are not favorable, but I can't speak for him.

3) Mob team splits as soon as they reach BC, leaving 2 or 3 to cap while the others do something else, but you have lost so much time already that whatever you leave open, the split team moves in to. They get the option of taking favorable fights now or killing some time while their other players move in to better positions.

I think the main point of contention is whether BC is worth sacrificing entire rest of the map. I certainly don't think it is, because as soon as you move away from it, you run the risk of a good team ready to move in behind you, except this time they're now ready to commit to a fight. Even if you move back to defend BC with your greater numbers, you are now at risk from getting converged on, and it's not much different from scenario 1.

If you have some other scenarios in mind I'd like to hear them!

This is all ignoring the fact that it is non-sync against sync which for now seems out of the scope of the argument.

OK... first i'd like to point out that we did not use vent or any of the like.
And regarding the fact that syncing leading to me believing that the tactics i described are superior:
1.nearly all of our teammates were HB plaeyrs, who ended up on the top 50 at least...now despite what you think of HB, it is very similar to CB, especially the concept of shrines, capping, morales, and so forth. So before CB we had our own experience of such tactics, and all agreed on this. In other words, we had very good evidence that our tactics are superior even BEFORE CB was started.
2.In this entire event, especially in the last few days, we played against almost as many sync teams(good ones,too) as we did randoms. The result was that we won most of them, this further supports my view.

Well, i was only describing one of many possible situations. Believe it or not, when we played this match, it was exactly as i described. Now you may give as many objections as you liek against this, but mind you this is on a forum, and you can have as much time as you like to think about this, so of course u can give these objections. Id liek to see u do what u describe in game.

lawl. leave gvg comparisions out of this. gvg has the abilty to create a team with an infinite number of builds. CB has 10 builds 1 for each profession with 5 and not 8 players.

BC is priceless. Your split on Whitefury is full of room to fail. I mean your team is divided into three sections with no way to travel directly to and from each other. The center shrine is like a death trap. 1 skinny bridge to energy in/out and you have go all the way to BC to get in/out the other way. Even if you back away. The only real point of escape is falling all the way back to energy. With BC and Center morale, pips are equal. Assuming you're one lone guy managed to cap the opposing HP shrine. If we assume he was only able to neutralize it. Your team is only up 120 hp and energy (which is almost negligible given the bars) And actually down a pip on morale.

With BC, even a 1 man split can go recap the neutralized HP shrine will still presenting enough power to keep you from pushing back to center. Even better this capper should be a sin, who is the MOST MOBILE character on that map due to Deaths Charges ability to skip levels on that map. Even if you decide to push center, the sin simply has to cap and tele up and for 5v5 with your energy shrine versus BC shrine.

Assuming equal player skill, team with BC should win almost all the time.

The reason BC is priceless is because it gives your team more mobility, quicker activation times, quicker recharge, and faster attack ALL THE TIME. Given set builds, you should able to see the distinct advantage this automatically presents.

You should never just defend BC. 1 pip < 4pips the other team capped just forces you rush the other team if you just sit there. Always be moving, because it forces the other team to move, whether thats move to fight or move to run and cap.


I've rolled many teams because of snaring a solo split cap from its team and killing it. Not only do you gain an instant point advantage you also then have the easy of capping the shrine he just came from with no challenge.

And yes when you kill something you do gain an automatic advantage. 5v4 is always always always an advantage. Duh 5 is greater than 4? Did you fail basic math. You don't need more than 2 ppl to kill a single running target. Most times you dont even need more than one depending on the matchup. 2 makes it so much quicker though. All while the rest of my team is capping or manuevering against the other team. Even if you don't time kill the person, you still up 1 point and 1 pip on morale. Thats all you need to win a game right there. And you shouldn't even think about sneaking around and capping BC 'cuz you're going to get ganked and be down even more.

As for "Winning the game is done by holding a majority of the vital shrines and engaging in combats with equal or numerical advantage."

Yes and no. I would still contest that fighting and winning leads to holding a majority of the shrines. Which therefore creates an advantage.

No advantage is ever created with both teams running in circles just capping, assuming equal player skill both teams should be fairly competent and able to cap around each other. The only way to gain an advantage is force a fight of equal strength or one in your favor, in case of the former, player skill and BC dictates the winner.

Which why i hold steady in that fighting is better than capping and that BC is priceless.

And lol you synced and didn't use vent?

Lol top 50 HB, real pro players right there.

ok.....so you snare/kill solo splitters. Now if you see a good number of people coming your way...what do you do?
1.stand there and fight and get killed
2.run away
Now of these people choose to chase the splitter, my team will have more than enough time to rush BC and take away your "priceless" shrine. Either way, your tactics on fighting fails.
In fact, the only plausible option in the scenario i described would be
3.split and cap(sound familiar?), and fight alone the way.
Correction here:you rolled many teams who did not know what to do, any decent player will know when to back up and any good team will know what to do to prevent getting ganked/timekilled/etc
As for gaining the automatic advantage....lol forreal?are you srs?
Just think about it, if you send 2 or 3 people to chase down 1 player, that player kites to his own base, gets killed. Now your 2 or 3 people will have to run back again. If this was on the 3 shrine map... that player can res and use teleport and hes back probably even faster then your 2 or 3, so in the mean time, its my team: 5-1=4 vs ur team 5-2=3/5-3=2. In case you dont know basic mathematics....4>2,3. Even if you only send 2, there is no guarantee that the runner will die if he manages to kite back into base. In no way do i say that this is always the case, but im jsut pointing out possibilities that you did not cover, and holes in your logic.
And yes, we did sync but did not use vent, if you think otherwise then thats your problem. If you know any thing about CB(or syncing, in that matter)...then you should know that it is definately possible.
And yea i did end up top50:rank35 8000wins 400loss, what have you done thats equally as impressive?

Well, if i'm not mistaken, we both agree on the importance of capping. Now i cant make a judgement on your views as to capping in relation to fighting, but where i stand on that would be: capping should be slightly more important than fighting, of course this is subject to changes depending on the situation, and that they both support and compliment eachother. That is, u simply cannot neglect one and expect to win(tho it is possible, but unlikely).
As for capping and splitting, I agree with you on most of the splits, however I do not believe that 5-0 is the way to go, on any maps at all. Normally my team starts 2-3 on the forest map, 2-1-2 on the grassy map, and 2-3 on the 3shrine map(3 on teleport,2 at gate).

Lol 3 people to kill a single target? Are you for real? Its going to be a sin split. And I have BC. And the only classes that need more than one player to take on are Mes, Ele, and Ranger. Mes because of ints + snare, Eles snare + blindspam, Ranger nat stride + antidote. These need just need a support character.

As for him kiting all the way back into base, if he kites remotely close to that far, I'm already going to be going the other way to collapse on you attempt to close in for BC. With BC, i'll easily and quickly kite out of range of any caster snares that the runner might try n cast to delay me. And if i have a support with me, he's already caster range, and so he'll be half as close as i am to my split. As well being caster he only has to get in aggro range to support the split if you close on it. Then the sin split teles in, something dies, and guess what you're teammate might be just gettting back in range if he has a speed boost.

And thats only if 2 of your 3 splits retreated all the way back to energy to regroup, AND made it all way back to BC in that time, instead of trying to collapse to your solo split being ganked.

In which my split, collapses back on my team capping center. Caps your health shrine until you get close, and we're up 3 or 4(if manage to cap HP before you get to close) pips to your one. And we are up on HP, attack speed, skill activation, skill recharge, and run speed.

Even if we don't get the kill, we still have the advantage.

5 players even spread out on a map is better than 4 players especially if the 5 players have BC.

As for preventing getting time killed, if you're getting ganked and your going to get time killed in CB, you pretty much have no choice in the matter. There's no weapon set swapping to drop hp as they keep you low. Most classes have minimal self heal. And once your caught, you're not going to get far versus a character with BC. Even if they fail to time kill a person, and they almost insta-respawn. You're now a good solid 2-3 aggro bubbles away. Split kites back to team, while player barely makes it out of the spawn point.

As for chasing a guy down on the 3 shrine map. Lol. There's no point....that just means he left teams mates to die. Ignore him, finish off any remaining players, then set up to counter whether the other team goes through tele or down through the door. Odds are if you won, that means you have BC and/or center morale. Move in between the two, to cut off the other team. If other teams proceeds to go to energy. Let them have it. Cap BC/center, whichever you don't have. and then just wait. They now have to come to you. 3-shrine map is always a full on brawl. Splits are just dumb on this map. Way way way to easy to get ganked. Even if you try the whole kite through the spawn through teles to get away, all you did was manage to not die. Other team is still just gonna re-cap whatever you just attempted to cap.

I played just about every level of possible skill over the course of this event. Faced and lost to good players, and also beat good players. I even beat synced teams with random baddies. If you get a couple baddies who actually listen and at least know basic mechanics of the game, you can out tactics other teams.

I'm sorry i didn't play HB except to farm zkeys on zquest day and we all know thats not playing. Plus i don't play completely broken formats that end up getting removed for the same reasons i didnt play them.

And thats cool, that you were that high and had that ratio. But I could care less. I was being sarcastic...both times.

So you went from...
to
OK.... despite your shift in grounds, so i get that you dont need more than one player for most "single running targets" then. But this is exactly where your logic fails lol. If you send 1 player to kill a "single running target", that target wont be running any more. And given an equal match up, one side has BC, while the other has +240 hp and energy advantage, I don't think your player will be more likely to win.

This is exactly what I described earlier in the scenario lol....If you move back and collapse my attempt to rush BC, all my team has to do is neutralize the shrine and fight you in a 5v5, in which case your team will have 0 shrines, and my team has 4. Now you might object to that by saying your running fast, lol fast is fast but 15% is not as fast as you think(trust me, Ive played enough to know this). But for the sake of argument, Ill give you this: lets say your team does not go far and decide to run back, all my team has to do is back up to where they were originally standing and wait. Then we go back to the same scenario again: your team is stuck at BC and the only viable option is to split and cap(sound familiar?).

Ok, now explain to me how do you start this map, then? The most plausible way is to split 3-2 and cap BC and energy, like ive described in my very first post. If you disagree on that, then how exactly are you going to get your "priceless shrine"? If you do agree with me on this split, then your contradicting this statement. lol im confused now that it seems either way your arguments end up in a contradiction.

OK, im glad taht you did. But geuss what, i did as well, and most likely more then u did. Especially in the last few days, we faced just as many sync teams as we did random teams. Now i dont get what you mean by "out tactics", it seems to me that youre not being consistant in your posts. First you say fighting is important, now you talk about "tactics"? Tactics is exactly the same thing as i was advocating in my very own argument, namely splitting and capping. And, no, knowing only basic mechanics of the game is simply not enough. I mean, i can find you tonnes of random pve players that know the basic mechanics, and i can tell you they will fail if you put them into an arena. lol even noobs knows the "basic mechanics", yea press space to atk, wasd to move, 12345678 to use skills, condition, hexes, etc. As a matter of fact, if you dont konw the basic mechanics, you shouldn't even be playing this game lololz

CB is over. Stop making these stupid discussions

GW is dead. Stop playing this stupid game and reading stupid discussions.

Well, I admit pulling "5 pve players" out of the hat is a bit of a longshot. Also when I use "pve player" in this context I don't actually mean getting a guy straight out of a dungeon, I mean "pve player" in the way it's normally used here on guru. That is a person who RAs, ABs or does some casual gvg/HA - pretty much someone like myself. (I've been called pve scrub enough times to assume I am one) I consistently get long streaks with completely random people in CB if I can convince them to listen to my advice and tactics so I'm fairly certain I could replicate a long streak given 4 other pve'ers like myself and access to vent.

I replied to Thevil King and his full team sync. So like me you are both right and wrong, basically because you are replying to a statement I didn't make. A "half sync" will obviously be completely at the mercy of the 1-3 randoms and luck when one of them leaves for dinner.

And I actually played a lot of CB games. I ran into lots of syncs as well but very rarely did I face a full sync. I played the korean districts to get away from all the necros and dervishes in english districts so I accepted fighting more sync teams this way. Had only significant problems with teams of 4+ synced people. One team used 2 sins and 2 eles for coordinated spikes, in terms of "dishonor" I think that team is directly qualified.

I agree on both of those situations.

I just don't see how you end up with your full team on BC completely giving up all the other shrines. If you hold BC and 1 health shrine you are able to go 1v1 against similar professions(ie. sin v sin). It's impossible to cover all the possibilites after such a 5-0 opening. The bc team should most definitely split at this point, but being ready to collapse back on bc if a split moves in. You can afford giving up bc if you are likely to get a quick kill forcing a 4v5 at bc or similar. Like I said if you hold bc and 1 health shrine you can accept all otherwise equal match-ups, you can chase down anything and you can escape skirmishes where you are outplayed. It's just theoretical that the split team will be able to win on shrine morale alone, over such a long period of time you are bound to get caught and killed.

I like the way you argue, bringing arguments instead of flames to a guru discussion is not the norm. I commend you for that.

What you say gives more weight to your claim of having a superior tactic. Just having 5 people agree on a tactic beforehand is a huge plus. Also that you fought and won vs other sync teams at least indicates that yours was of better quality.

Obviously the flipside is that 5 people agreeing on something in CB will alone win matches. Just think of the random teams wanting to go 5-0 center shrine on the 3-shrine map but having 1 of them deciding to go on a split instead.

I'm sure it happened, it happened for me many times as well. My team splits(like yours) and the other team sends 5 to bc. While capping bc I would move over the bridge and cap the health they just left behind. But the fact remains, I was completely shocked every time that they just let me do this. I would keep an eye on mesmers and eles so I could run back if they seemed eager to snare me. They rarely did. It is my opinion that if a team lets you do this they are bad and you would have rolled them regardless of tactics.

We probably agree in practice, but in theory my goal is to get kills. Capping is only a means to an end. Scoring kills without bc against good players is near impossible, the health shrines are also vital in this respect. As I said I will nearly ignore energy and morale shrines since they offer no bonus to fighting. I will only cap them if it's convenient to do so, if it will make the other team try to recap them so I can steal a more important shrine meanwhile etc.

If you split 2-3 on the 3-shrine map as red when I'm blue you're already in big trouble. Your 2 will face 4 of mine on bc, you can retreat back to base or risk getting snared and killed by pushing through bridge to center.

Your 3 on the teleport I don't know how you will use but if any of them goes after my 1 split he will retreat back through tele and join up with team going for center already having bc by now. If your 3 all go for center I will send 3 from bc and 1 from base collapsing on your team with bc soon to be capped.

IMO that map simply favors red for going 5-0 bc. Red has the shortest way to the best shrine, they will respawn nearby if they die cutting down on time spent running to battle. Blue should split for the same reason, they are at a tactical disadvantage going 5v5 over the bc since casualities take longer to replace. Although given my 2 optimal openings red will hold bc and blue center+energy, leaving red still at advantage.

I didn't shift my grounds. Not needing more than 2 people and only really needing 1 to tackle most professions are two valid statements. In fact, you can send 2 to rape those professions that are solable if you want to ensure you kill the kiting player quickly. But it remains that you should only need one. 2 is just extra bonus support.

Ok perhaps i should of said, you said you never need more than 2 people, and in fact you really only should need 1 for more classes, but thats just my grammer choice. Moot point.

As for you have all 4-0 shrines capped. Theres just no way you can recap the opp. side health shrine before the 5-0 split caps both HP and BC. First you only sent two people to your HP shrine. Its going to take you the whole time that we cap HP and part of BC to fully cap your HP. That still leaves the run under the bridge to our BC, and begining to neutralize our HP. At this point, you have 2 people forcing center, 1 at our HP with 1 running to help, and 1 WAY on the other side trying to sneak across the bridge. This is full of options to force your splits into a retreat with 5 people having already capped BC and probably already deciding on a split tactic.

There's no way you can assume you will have both HP shrines. We've already determined Energy shrine has no fighting bonus, only morale bonus. So mostly likely scenario is that both teams with have an HP shrine, while 5-0 rush has BC and other has Energy. Center shrine here is only shrine left to decided.

The next tactics are completely dependant upon where exactly on the map each player is, and which are easy to pressure without the ability to be supported by their teammates.

As for tactics on 3-shrine. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOk the energy shrine its only worth morale. Let the other team split to have it. Thats more time they spend kiting away while my team is capping something. As for which side is quicker to BC, i think tele>bridge>bc is quicker than the team that spawns directly infront of BC. (I forget colors)

And i said understand basic game mechanics, not space=attack and numbers make skills happen. Thats not game mechanics thats just commands. Understanding mechanics, mean you know how the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO to you use you skill bar, and what snares and kiting is.

Saint said it pretty well, " but in theory my goal is to get kills. Capping is only a means to an end. Scoring kills without bc against good players is near impossible, the health shrines are also vital in this respect. As I said I will nearly ignore energy and morale shrines since they offer no bonus to fighting. I will only cap them if it's convenient to do so, if it will make the other team try to recap them so I can steal a more important shrine meanwhile etc."

Which is why i keep saying that killing trumps capping and that capping only serves to introduce tactics and movement into a format that is mainly kill count, allow teams that have more skill, but worse team builds to win.

is because you synced with your alliance (which is notorious for syncing). No need to read further.

LOLOLOLOLMFAOBBQ

Dude my alliance is so new that the only festival event we have even played was this yrs CB(which started 2weeks ago). are you droppin some acid dude? how in the world can my alliance be notorious for anything when we just created it in less then about 1month???? this is the biggest joke ive heard all week lololol

Ok, maybe i need to rephrase myself better. What i meant to say was, the tactics ive described was, in essence, HB tactics tailored for the purpose of Cb. Given HB being 1v1, the claim that our tactic was superior was independently proven, by me and my friends in our hb experience.

Well, when i posted this scenarior, i was only trying to respond to the challenge for me to give an example where i can outcap my opponent without fighting in the start(which i did, hence this scenario). Of course, I did expect all these objections, but my original purpose was fulfilled. That is, through this example i proven that it is indeed possible. As for theyre bad, yes but not always. In fact, one team did this to us and we won, but the same team beat us on another map using the exact same tactic.

Well u see, u only got half the picture here. The "end" is to score pts and win, and both capping and fighting serves to achieve that. Like i said before many times, these 2 build upon eachother. If you want to secure a fight, you need cap to help u out(this is almost always the case, because u simply cannot assume taht u will win every fight without the advantage in cap). In a similar fashion, if u want to secure the shrine, u will have to fight(this, however, is not always the case, because there are many times where u do not need to fight in order to cap).


Ok, for cases liek red going 5-0 bc, this is normally what we do:
the 3 on teleport go to cap center instead bc, and 2 cap energy(if needed, 1 of the 2 will move to center). So when red finishes capping bc, and is moving towards center, the 1 or 2 at energy will go back to base and teleport, then try to cap bc. Now if red decides to send every1 to center, then the 3 just have to move back until we got bc. If red sends only 3 or 4 to center, then the ppl from teleport will join the fight at center, making it a 5v3 or 5v4. After forcing a kill, we rush bc.

Fine then ill give you 1. Now lets imagine a 1v1 then, say sin vs sin(since this is the most popular class this event). Both sins use palm strike, then sig of malice. If you know anything about the game, these 2 are skills, not atks, in otherwords, bc does nothing to determine which sin uses it faster. the point i was making was that, bc is not "priceless" as you claim. I am also pointing out that, even if you do have bc, the player cannot guaratee the kill in a 1v1. This is why i presented the scenario where 2 or 3 players chasing down 1 player.

k enough with ur criticizing of my scenario. i know these are all possible cases taht ur pointing out, but geuss what? i can come up with even more possible ways that team can play. Nevertheless, the example ive describe was one that happened EXACTLY as i described, no matter how many possibilities u think up. u see, i did not give this scenario to have every1 criticize how stupid the team was, how they should played, etc. The whole reason i provided that scenario was to answer your challenge of capping all or most shrines without fighting in the start, which i did.

ok so u choose to 5-0 the bc shrine instead of center,fair enough. Read how my team would play in response to that in the previous post.

lol....this is all you need to know to play cb? i dont think so. This "basic game mechanics" in your definition should be instead called "basic ways of how to play RA/TA/CA". Simply knowing these are not sufficient enough to do well in CB.

ok.....so it all comes back to where it begins, this is not going anywhere so let me present 2 cases and argument that are deductive in nature. That is, if u accept the facts that i present, you must agree to the conclusion regardless of how u liek it or not:
First case.
lets say ur team is losing, 7-0 or 8-0. The opposing team has all shrines capped and is waiting outside your base for u to come out. Now at this point, if u know anything about cb at all, u would know that the game is pretty much over, uve lost. But how do u know that? Is it because the team has all shrines capped? or because theyre mobbing infront of ur base so u cant get out? The obvious answer would be, its a combination of both the fact that the opposing team has all the shrines AND is mobbing infront of ur base so u cant get out.
lets look at why this is so: if all u have all or most of the shrines on the map, but somehow for some reason u got grp wiped, and is all in ur base, and the opposing team does NOT cap ur shrines but rather mob in front of ur base to prevent u from getting out. This is pretty stupid right? u would know then u still have a chance to win the game. this is because u still got all these shrines outside, all u have to do is force a fight in front of the base, and beat them in this fight.(from this we conclude that only being able to fight and not neglecting caps is not the way to go)
now lets say ur grp has been wiped, and all ressed at base at the same time. You take a look, and the opposing team has all shrines on the map, but that team is dancing and doing all kinds of emotes at their own base. Thats stupid too, right? From this u would know that u also have a chance to win the game, because nobody is preventing ur team to get out of ur base and recap these shrines. (hence we can conclude that having caps is not good enough either)
From this we can see that, capping and fighting goes together: only having one but not the other is NOT good enough. This scenario tells us that only a COMBINATION of these 2 factors is desired in order to meet the ends of wining.

Heres a second case:
since u advocate fighting over capping, lets imagine a case where both teams play under this philosophy.
It is the forest map and both teams go 5-0 towards the BC shrine, since its so "priceless". THese 2 teams then engage in a 5v5. Now at this point, neither teams have an advantage, but still in this fight, there MUST be one team who loses. Lets say its ur team that loses this fight. You all die and get ressed in ur base. From this fight, u conclude that it is the opposing team is so much better than ur team in terms of fighting, that it is impossible for ur team to beat them in a fair fight. But, does this mean ur team should immediately resign, and whenever ur team plays this team again, ur team should keep resigning? Well, if you are really that bad, then ok u can rage quit. But for most people, clearly the answer is no.
Now if you answer no, what can you do that can possibly help you beat this team? Do you keep running out of ur base and force another fight with this team until you beat them in the fight? lol.....any1 who is not mentally retarded will say thats stupid. So your only solution is to cap: if you cannot beat them in a fair fight, try to outcap them, and when you gain an advantage in shrines, you fight again, but not so much with the purpose of making kills, as opposed to more of stalling and wearing this team down. Then you may have a chance of winning the match
From this case, we can conclude that a fight-only tactic is not good enough. Being able to fight is a good thing, but in CB that is not the only thing you're after, because even if ur team loses the fight, u can still back urself up with superior capping. Fight-only is for RA/TA/CA pvp arenas, not CB.

Wrong, whichever team has the most sins win,if that is the same, whichever team has to most mesmers.After that the better players win.

lol....i was refering to the advantage in terms of shrines. But your objection still does not affect my argument in anyway. Nevertheless, my team rarely ran more than 2 sins 1mesmer, sometimes none, yet we beat most 3/4/5 sin team. I'm sorry to say but, there is something called "skills" besides your buildwars(tho the majority of gw players has lost it).

Blah blah blah yadda some more things and some more things ok. Read it.

Alright. First i'm going to say if you understand game mechanics, then obviously you have some clue about how to play the game. Aka, you should know what kiting, snaring, certain skills do, what their effects are and how they effect you, and what you can do against them. Basic game RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin mechanics. No? Knowing game controls means oh i know this button makes me wack wack on a guy. and this button makes bright lights appear and cause dmg. Doesn't mean you know what they did, but you know they did it.

As for the sin v sin, your right it doesn't determine who uses it faster. However increase movement speed does. Faster movement speed leads to quicker touch range, which means you get advantage on cast time, meaning you will get off sig of malice quicker. The only way you should lose is if your ping is >400, or you DC in and they guy is turned around and prepared to use PS. DCin against the sin is a bad decision anyway against a good player. Plus with +attack speed and +skill recharge, my chains recharge faster, even if i somehow lose on the first SoM.

No-its not a guarantee'd 1v1, but personally in CB its a risk i'd take with BC on my side, given the general skill of players in CB.

As for 8-0 and I'm sitting in my base. I'm probably already /resigned and afk. Obviously someone/something RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up big if its 8-0 and we're all in our base.

I've never said neglect capping. I just said I'm not going to go out of my way to cap something. Which is only because fighting was so strong in this years CB builds. Which i still hold is more important than capping.

lol......kiting, snaring, what skills do, even pve noobs know what that is. But that does not mean pve noobs will succeed in CB. Youre talking about the very basics of the game, and when we talk about tactics, its a given that the players SHOULD KNOW THESE BASICS. I mean, if you dont know these basics, your not going to do well in pvp AT ALL regardless how good ur tactics are. These are the fundementals if u even want to play gw lol.....

lol wtf is this logic? i run faster so my cast time is faster? Getting into touch range is not the same as using skills lol....
Ok, have you played shock warrior in pvp? you should know that the one who runs in and shock will ALWAYS cast after the one who stands there and shock. In other words, you run in, cast your skills, its guaranteed that you get off sig slower than the player who just stands there and cast. lol @ +atk and +skill rec. Just think about it, sin auto atks (7-17) are even weaker than a wand(11-22), the only reason sin atks are good is because they have all thes atk skills. Once the sin gets all these conditions(psn,dw,bleeding) on the other sin, he can just malice off any further palm strikes.

So now you do admit that shrines do help u fight better....lol contradictions?

lol if your going to give up that easily, then all i can say is....gg, thx for pts and balth. But for my team, if i was on my streak and got 70wins alrdy, I'm sorry but I gotta do something to win the game back lol(hence my tactics)and yes, on a long streak its inevitable that people have to mess up sometimes, my teams had all these things happen to us: ppl afk, dc, lag, etc. Geuss what? it is absolutely possible, both theoretically and practically, to comeback when under such circumstances.

And fighting>capping? lol read my previous 2 cases, if you agree with these facts ive presented, then it is logically nessesary for you to also agree that capping forms the basis of which u can safely fight on. In otherwords, without the foundations of capping, u cannot succeed in CB no matter how good u are at fighting.

you give pve noobs a little more credit than they deserve, but okay.

Touch skills are only slower against stationary foes because auto-run forces you to be at the minimum range of adjacent to foe. Touch range starts just after adjacent range ends. It also depends if you are facing the target or not, if you are facing your target and are stationary, touch skills activate at max range. If you are facing backwards they activate almost at minimum range. With a speed boost just tap backward just outside of range to ensure that the skill activates at max range. Which gives you the advantage on cast time because the stationary player is waiting for you to run up next to him to activate his touch skill. I know how touch range works.

As for giving up, sorry i don't sync. If I'm losing 8-0 its cuz i rolled in with a fresh new set with baddies. I like playing with baddies. Sure it can be annoying, but it has its epic funny moments, and pwning bad kids. And even finding cool people that actually aren't bad at the game too.

And i've always said BC is worth?!

Sigh. I'm tired of running in circles. Its no longer fun to me. I'm going to agree to disagree.

k.....so you continue to disagree but seems to run out of arguments. That does nothing to disprove my points. so im going to continue advocating cap and continue to farm even more "fighting" CBers next yr.

a sin with monk was fun- was nothing special to going on rolls in cb.. remember we went 10 in row with 4 assassins and a monk one time and I had to go.. was goofing around alot too

long as you setup the split you were usually good.. had one really good team we went 20-0 a couple times, screened em

It's not so much running out of arguments as it is a circular argument. You both agree you can't fight without capping and you can't cap without fighting.

The main difference seems to be the different values you put on the respective shrines. Thevil seems to view all shrines with a relatively speaking more even importance than does Feathermoore.

Personally I would rate the shrines this way: BC 100 pts, health 50, energy 20, morale 10. Meaning it would take 2 health shrines to "equal" bc in terms of relative importance. And having bc would be more important than holding one health, energy and morale combined. I'm guessing Thevil would rate energy and morale with slightly higher values.

The reason I believe that the determining factor in a match is fighting is because I assume that you usually get the most points from kills not points from morale pips. I haven't done any research but my guess would be that maybe 15 points come from kills and 5 from morale. I'm sure you could play defensively and stall fights maybe making the distribution 10-10 or so. But CB seems different from HB in the way you score points. Bars are fixed in CB and if you don't hold bc it's impossible to completely avoid a chasing foe, in HB you could warp around and avoid fights altogether.

It is very easy to mistaken that, since most points come from kills, kills are therefore more important. I argue taht the only reason you make so many points from these kills is because you have the advantages in shrines to back you up in these fights.u see, the kills are only possible under the premise that you cap. That is why i said fighting and capping build upon eachother, and support eachother in what they do. That is, they go together. Of course, i also argued that capping is slightly more important(this is subject to changes depending on the situation) because it is the foundation of capping that youre basing a safe fight off of.

I believe a more plausible way to determine which one is important, would be to find out how much time was spent doing these 2 in a match. Do you spend more time standing there and fight? or do u spend more time moving around and capping shrines? Though i do not have an exact answer for this, but it is pretty evenly split. Of course, this is assuming that both teams are evenly matched, and one team does not get rolled right away.

The impression i get from Feathermoore was that BC is "priceless" and should therefore be taken at all costs. That is a huge mistake, both in theory and in practise. Liek ive described in my second case, if we fight under this philosophy, we will not be able to win against teams who can fight better then us. This maybe the case in RA/TA/CA, where the better fighter wins, but certainly not in CB. THat is why i emphasized the importance of capping

What an enjoyable Thevil King & Sankt Hallvard page. Thanks for not using the edit button.

P.S. Didn't read your posts though, hope i'm not missing anything.