The FOW Problem

Oh god...
It all makes sense now

FYI I haven't logged on in 2 months, I log on every once in awhile to check on stuff and the like, but I don't play anymore, so I really could care less. But, the thing is, I can't stands idiots with little or no money like you shouting "MAKE EVERYTHING 5 HOURS LONG AND MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO GET 100K QUICKLY". And yes, people like you are indeed bad for the game, one way or the other.

Haha Man, kinda funny that the god of gods for dungeons made this thread xD (Didn't read all the posts if this is out of place)

Am happy to say I did the LMoTN title without getting a run from a sin or 600 pair. No fun being run, it's dead boring, and zzzzz sins. So, not everyone does it. I'm ... well, not exactly 'glad' that the service exists for people who are too terrible to do it on their own, but what can you do.

Ah... gottcha... people who actually play the game are bad for the game.

As opposed to people who get run through all the content, then bitch about their not being any content and are bored and quit.


Edit: Actually, don't bother responding to this either. After seeing your posts in other threads, you are clearly just a troll. So, you are going on my ignore list and I won't see any of your bickering and insults. So, save your breath... err typing.

Well, if anything happens to the FoW in similar fashion to the UW, I can bet Domain of Anguish will be next...

I do SC for FOW. I have no beef with SF whatsoever, but without that skill, there wouldn't be a FOWsc IMO. With that said I do think though there will always be groups that find *fast* ways without SF to clear certain areas. New monster skills is probably the only ways I see certain Elite areas being slowed down, or changing up the way quests are done. Then again with certain monster skills people will always find a way to counter them, that is the beauty of GW's to problem solve with your skill sets hehe. Either way I use to do FOW and UW back in the old days the old fashion way with a balance team. I didn't mind it then and on occasions I wouldn't mind it now, GW players (some of them) just got lazy and took the fast route to high end loot items, instead of enjoying the game or comradery of playing with other players.

how is fow a problem?

these areas are what, 4+ years old? and your complaining they should take as long to complete as they did 4 years ago? seriously, stop crying over other people and worry bout yourself

The only problem (and this has gone on since day 1 even before SF) is the constant demand for nerfs. Nerfing SF will not bring the end to all this nonsense and that should worry anyone interested in investing their hard earned cash for GW2. Some of the nerfs were justified but others weren't and has left a very bad taste in my mouth for quite some time now.

DoA won't be nerfed...If anything it will be made easier, not harder. Very few pugs form for DoA, and of those almost none finish. Besides, most guild groups still take ~1h to finish DoA, which is plenty long enough.

I honestly don't see a fow nerf coming. To start, there are only 2 sins that split away and blow shit up, as opposed to uw's 6(could count vale, so 7). Next, there is more than 2 professions being used. In fact, all professions but a paragon and a dervish can be used in relatively easily in fow, and derv can even AoEbomb if it really felt like doing fow. FoW records are also about twice the time that the UW record was, with most pugs getting around 25 minutes. The shard price plummeting is a problem, but nerfing fow honestly doesn't make sense to me, since anet still wants people to pug.

I find it funny how a few people think an area should be nerfed just because they think it should take longer to complete. Don't do SC's then, find a balanced group if you want it to take longer. Just because a run is too fast doesn't mean it should be nerfed. Having these SC's actually gets groups together as well, isn't that what Anet wanted... people being able to get groups together easily?

PuGs naturally go where the pastures are greenest. Right now UW/FoWSC are the best when it comes to rewards versus time spent. Nerf UW so it's slower and less profitable and they'll gradually move on. DoASC, SoOSC and whatever else is on the horizon will eventually fill this void. Then we can see more of these threads. YAY!

Yes, simple area change is needed.

Devs have many nice tricks to ensure party stays together:

* Carry fragile bundle throught enemy spawn: Cant be soloed by perma (loss of enchant weapon), at least one aditional party member needed.

* Door that needs several cooperating party members to open, like in deep, room 3.

* PvE skills! Giving some mobs "YMLAD!", Radiation Field, Ear Bite, Weakness Trap, etc, would help. At ton.

* "Remove enchant if spellfails" skill would work best as it is unlikely to interfere with normal gameplay, but will destroy perma tank, obsi tank (if they finally make effects consistent), SB-ed 600... as pretty much any farming gimmick plays on having spell immunity.

Pugging? Did smiters booning ursan make more pugs? Go have a look in DOA on a non z-bounty day and see how many people are playing this 'elite' content.

Nerfing the UW. Go sit in TOA and see how many so called 'balanced' pugs are forming to do the UW. About as many as pre UWSC. That as, almost none at all.

And dungeons? Like there was some big pugging craze before some one figured out you could run dungeons. About the only dungeon that really got pugged was HoS. Frankly, dungeons have probably seen more activity since runners came then ever before in the game. And for better or worse, they probably bring back people who'd never have bothered going back to the dungeons after filling their nm and hm books and getting the master of the north points.

Nerf FoW if you want, I don't really care, but you can bet that there won't suddenly be some big explosion of 'balanced' pugs forming to do it. Just as there wasn't pre-FoWSC.

Well of course that's what happens if you block one area the dumb kids will go somewhere else. SF is the problem, they should fix that.

Indeed. And there are many more possibilities, but I'm completely unsure about their feasibility. From the henchmen AI update and Joe Kimmes' comments, we know AI can be updated quite simply, and maybe that's what they should do. Monsters that change tactics when spell fails, wanding while intelligently moving around the target to avoid spells each in turn, spiking (actually this is not mosnter AI but mob AI and I've got no idea whether it's related in GW1), etc.

Any good designer who wants to do that would have to do it very slowly, one step at a time, while at the same time providing some subtle emphasis on the directions where players should go (e.g., a general idea of "balance"). It's completely obvious that the Live Team has nowhere near the resources to do that, and actually GW1 at this point doesn't need it. I doubt that good/skilled players, veterans or other PvPers would come back, unless there's a message from Linsey describing a massive move like this. She's already done "wonders" (players don't see it that way) since introducing the April update and the "PvP love" one (this one not finished yet?) and maybe 2010 will see some bold things happening.

After all, they've introduced titles/GWAMM and Hom, and a few grams of grind (which is actually not strictly needed to get full HoM and GWAMM), and it would be illogical to change the game against this. However nice it seems to skilled-pro-veteran players, this is an ideal that contradicts their business, and hence their existence, pay and job. The recent news of studio closure sort-of puts all this into perspective, ofc Anet is in a relatively good position, but nowhere near what is needed to steer the community one way or another (related note: I read that WoW has 68% market share on MMOs...woaw, just woaw), and I don't think it's in fact what they'd want their game to be. GW1 proposes many ways to play, alas some of them being more difficult (balanced, PvP) because of the pressure of other gameplays (farm, gimmick).

I must be an idealist on this topic, or an utopist that believes he's realistic, but I think the community could do something to change this. I've personally done some zquests with balanced PUGs put together in a few minutes which achieved an amazing efficiency in some not-so-simple HM missions, without each player being amazing him/herself. But well...

*circles on his todo list to go to FoW for his first FoW armor and get SF on his sins* ...

To quote BA's definitive piece on this subject:

Now, if you could just point me to where I can find these guys in FoW...

FoW is a core elite area, UW is a core elite area, UW has creatures with none-core skills. So FoW...

Something like that