Nerf Mark of Pain

I wanna feel like you do... can i get some of whatever you are smokin?

Do you think we should nerf "res Sig" cause its too overpowered?


uummm...WRONG. hit deadly paradox and SF real fast requires skill?

I suppose that using the Red Sig requires skill as well..

Again whatever u smokin ..can u share so i can understand this philosophy?


Man i keep reading these threads of peeps QQ and im glad that those people dont work for Anet cause if it was upto the QQ's we all would be wanding shit to death..." I am wanding Ghail The Bone Dancer" -3 damage later....

yes thats it no more weapons except wands ..that would solve all the GW problems

Pretty sure he was talking about MoP here, not SF.

Pretty sure sf or mop...my principle still applies. mop even worse skill for 1 button? lame

Pretty sure you aren't making any sense whatsoever.

There really isn't much depth to Mark of Pain. Really there isn't.
No.

i think it's scatter is pretty bad but it's a lot easier to control than the scatter on the p90 zomg that thing sprays like a hose.

And at one time they didnt have stupid cons to negate the serious disadvantage(50% penalty). SF is out of place in this game, it should be in "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" where all the kids who want easy mode games can flourish. As for tanks, the problem is a game that emphasizes skill shouldn't need tanks in the first place. All builds center around abusing terribly retarded "Follow the yellow brick road" logic the AI uses, so most skill uses are a direct consequence of that.

If there's not much "depth" to it..why nerf it? LOLZ...

Every skill in the game should be nerfed at this rate if you think MoP, should be nerfed.

But then again, Your 2nd post in this thread sorta...immediately gives away that obvious troll thread is obvious.

/Srsbsns.

Depth as in complexity that requires skill.

There isn't much to it. Some people make websites or illustrations and here we are hitting the 2 key on our keyboards.

Have anyone of you actually run SF in DoA? Its a bit harder then just mashing 2 skills. Try slivering in Foundry or doing some pulls in Veil. It's a bit harder then you think. Maintaining SF in some situations is harder then you think.

As for MoP, this is stupid. Your right, its powerful. But to be honest, I have never run it outside of a manlyway anything. Causes scatter, and yes your enemies have to be balled up. Which in PvE is easy to find, but there are better/faster ways to kill crap then using MoP.

/notsigned, why should I explain? Lets nerf all the skills so they have 60second recharge and do +1 dmg.

This just in..

http://memeparty.com/i/49c3744611f7e...fefe905f00.jpg

This is the most rediculous "nerf this, nerf that" threads i've seen in a few days..
MoP is NOT the problem.. it functions just the way it should... The problem is stupid AI...
For speed clears, it's the ability to mob completely...
Btw, if you want to q_Q about skills, at least choose some that actually needs a nerf.
Everytime a new techniqe pops up ppl will q_q seems like good use of skills and creativity has become illegal..

Cheers.

MoP is like pre-nerf Splinter.
Of course it's too good.
And not only that, it's in one of the best lines in the game, a line that gives us stuff like Reckless, Shadow Of Fear, Enfeebling, Rend, Rigor, Barbs, ...

Seriously you can't really keep shouting that the necro AP nuker is the single best AP nuker in the game and then say that MoP isn't too godly. If AP is trashed, then people will just GoR MoP - because it's THAT good.

Does that mean it should be trashed?
Meh.
First of all, we are dealing with the necro, a guy that embodies PvE easy mode. There was never much skill needed to play a necro at a sufficient level. So of course some of it's skills are going to be over the top.
And then, this game kinda has more and bigger problems.



So /signed if we see a massive re-work, /not signed if we are just doing it for shits and giggles.

Um, did you ALL bite into troll thread or are you just playing along for lulz?

There's not much MoP target can do when it's being knocklocked by 2-3x physicals with GDW. It's not that Mark of Pain is overpowered, the 20 second recharge compensates, as you can't simply spam it on every single target.

Everyone is right, except you- Assassin's Promise is the overpowered nut of PvE, and has been for years. EVAS is overpowered because it causes KD and wtfrapes anything it touches nerf it plzzzz?

I think this is a troll thread, and it really should be closed asap. It's ludicrous.

Funny how even this MoP nerfing thread turned into a:







"Please nerf Shadow Form" thread... Wise guys!

Everyone in this thread got trolled.

/notsigned for nerfing MoP
/signed for succesfull troll

I wish they'd un-nerf it, actually. MoP used to be triggered by all damage, not just physical. That opened up some really fun/annoying builds.

MoP is an...Interesting skill. The more enemies you are facing, the more powerful it becomes.

I think I understand what the OP is saying, because if we were truly honest with ourselves, I think we could all admit that at the very least HB+Whirlwind Attack+MoP is overpowered, just like we could all admit that PvE skills are overpowered (despite the fact that some classes such as the Paragon require them in order to have a use in PvE).

Or is it?

Now, I personally don't have any experience with teams that employ this, so I'll have to fall back on math (which really, is more reliable for things like this anyway, since it eliminates the variables of randomness and player skill).

At 14 Curses, MoP does 38 shadow damage. A warrior with 14 swordsmanship will do (18.5*(1-.196) + 22*1.41*.196)= roughly 21 raw dmg per hit. Of course, actual damage is more complicated. But since I'm feeling lazy, I'll just take as a given that HM enemies take half damage and ignore the effects of strength. And then we throw in inscriptions and customization, and we get an effective damage of about 14.5.

Of course, the AoE from HB is 24 at 14 swordsmanship, which HM enemies will reduce to 12.

Let's assume that the warrior attacks once per second, and each second attack is Whirlwind Attack.

For the first attack, he will hit the AoE targets for 12+38= 50 damage. For the second attack, the damage goes like this:

AoE damage per target for all targets except the one with MoP= 14.5 + (12+38)*number of targets hit by whirlwind attack

For 2 enemies, that means the lone AoE target will take 114.5 damage. For 3 enemies, the 2 AoE targets will each take 164.5 damage. And each additional enemy beyond that is 50 more damage for each target that isn't hexed by MoP.

For the target that is hexed by MoP, however, the damage is simply:

14.5 + 12*number of targets hit by whirlwind attack

For 2 targets hit by whirlwind attack, that's 38.5 damage. For 3, it's 50.5. For 4, it's 62.5.

Now, let's compare that to MSDB. MSDB gets a little over 40 AoE dps. However, the primary target damage is much greater. In fact, it's far beyond what HB+WhirlwindAttack+MoP can do except under the most extreme of circumstances. The same is true of scythes.

MoP seems scary, but when you do the math and think of what is required for it to be used properly (not like you can depend on the monsters doing what you want, especially with the scatter), as well as it's low primary target damage, it's not nearly as bad.

Plus, let's not forget that MoP is a key part of the HB+WA build that is one of the key reasons to play as a warrior. I personally loathe the idea of a profession being redundant, and nerfing MoP would move the warrior one step closer to it.

/notsigned

the problem lies with HB, MoP is fine

My Necromancer uses Mark of Pain for ages and suddenly theres a problem with it?

BTW
/notsigned

People should try combination of SS, MoP and OoP

don't forget to bring your minion master and watch your screen goes up in yellow numbers fireworks

Why do you think only teams with SF use MoP? MoP has been used way before SF ever became what it is.

Besides, SF is getting nerfed next month.

Why would I bother with SS?
SS isn't going to achieve anything meaningful in such a setup.

pretty sure this thread doesnt make sense to nerf mop.. thats my point.. sorry im 2 smart for you to get my humor.


see^^ this person has humor like me. will u run for president?

If MoP is on your bar and you're not abusing it, you're choosing to do less damage.
I don't think MoP has only been used with SF.

Why is effective use being called abuse?

Exactly this.

It is not. He only calls it abuse because he thinks its overpowered but its not .

Of course it's overpowered.
And to argue that it takes "skill" to pull out the insane damage that shouldn't be possible is like arguing that there is nothing wrong with SF because "it has counters".

Come on, we aren't bad. We wouldn't be using it if it wasn't absolutely insane.

It's fairly strong and it seems fair to call it overpowered.
But even then, I'm not sure how using it effectively constitutes abuse.

The same applies to Shadow Form. The devs clearly made and "balanced" this skill with farming and speed clearing in mind - using it to achieve stupid clear times is evidently not abuse.
That doesn't mean it's any less stupid though.

I still hold that MoP is fine as is, but the real killer is AP - that skill completely removes its balancing factor.*

*Before you call me out on this and apply that logic to SF; note that AP removes the balancing factor (recharge) on a lot of skills, turning them into something very powerful; a lot of the PvE skills for instance, many ele nukes, etc.

This just isn't true (no matter how many people repeat it). MoP used to be even sweeter back in the day.

When was this?

Hm, some here are either ignorant or afraid of losing their little baby. Mop used with a physical team/MM/etc is fine. Mop with a tank and the HB/Whirlwind combo is way stronger than any nuke ever used before.

So if you are under the illusion that anet is nerfing skills in pve because they are op, you can sign this thread. The tank/mop/HB-whirlwind combo is better than cop was at its peak (at that time HB had a different effect) and cop was promptly nerfed. The only disadvantage of mop is range which is not an issue as long as pve mob AI is below the level of a sea urchin.

Men a other mindless Necro hater.

MoP isn't overpowerd as skill it self. It all comes down to the tank with again
SF. Try to use MoP in a hero team, it will shatter all groups as normal AoE
skills.

Really wish that people starting to suggets valuable game changes instead
of keep asking to nerf skills.

Im going to pretend that you are not comparing it to SF.
Is not overpowered at all , i explained why some posts before , soz , not going to repeat myself.

There are about 1XX skills that fit the definition "strong if used well but not overpowered" . MoP is one of them.
Ill tell you my criteria to see if something is overpowered :
- Comparing it with same skills of same style
- If you ALONE or with 1 more person/hero use it in some combo , you beat the crap out of the game.
Gotta match those 2 without a doubt and MoP doesnt. (reason explained on my other post)

AP denies recharge on all skills in game , i can asure you that MoP is not the only skill that gains a "power" level ( without being overpowered ) when its recharge is denied.
Like i said before , if we nerf MoP because is "op" , we would have to nerf at least 20 more skills because of that.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:W/N_Raptor_Farmer

The problem with SF is that it allows something that shouldn't be possible. And the amount of damage MoP outputs also shouldn't be possible.

The "overpowered" part of mark of pain comes in part from hundred blades and whirlwind attack having that odd effect and in part the fact that AI is just too stupid to not ball up.

MoP is probably more effective in PvE play than it should be, but it isn't the fault of the skill itself, just like empathy, spiteful spirit, VoR, and anything else AI lends itself weakness too.

Erm... yes?
That was my point.