GW1 micro-transactions business model

Buying in game stuff with real money = F2P model. This isnt what made guild wars sell 6 million copies. Whats worse is you cant get these items in game, they arent even a short cut to existing content they are seperate extra paid for content you cant get any way else but paying real money.

For the people saying its good bottom line business so is your mom, so why arent you pimping her on some street corner now for an extra buck?
Anet is playing with fire, there is such thing as eating your own tale, sure it tastes good but theres a price you pay for it. You might be able to get away with eating your own tail once you grow big and fat, but the point is youd never grow big and fat if you started eating your tale from the start.

Sure Guild Wars has grown big and fat enough to eat/pimp RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO itself into oblivion, but they better not think about this for Guild Wars 2, theres no excuse too, they will sell enough boxes, theres no reason to destroy the integrity of competition be it PVE or PVP in this game with a cash shop from the start, hell theres no excuse to do that to Guild Wars either.

Unfortunately Guild Wars will continue to get raped from now on in because theres no one to protect it. Its a shame, and a price we have to pay for mmo' type games, they will always get to them eventually and they will be taken advantage of and raped by the evil that is greed. Its inevitable, no reason why we cant fight back though, slow them down. Speak up, the same evil forces buzz'ing into the right people ear to convince them to destroy the game could also be good forces buzzing in their ear to keep the games integrity. No reason we have to give in. Just say no.

NO to FP2 Guild wars.

This isn't a point of opinion its fact. Hence why you're wrong. As is the rest of your posts.

Belaboring the issue with arguments over the validity of you or my opinion won't change the factual nature of my assertions. Hence, why you fail, and fail hard.

Something I would like to point out: makeovers and costumes were the very first cosmetic things. Character slots may be convenience, but they are not cosmetic. That aspect is very recent.

Second, how does the massive increase in numbers of them get written off as unimportant? If they go from having a single type of microtransaction available to the large number they have now, does that not give any reason at all to think they might apply the same idea in the future?


I don't know where you're getting the idea that Kaleban is the sole offender or even the instigator here. I read you and Kaleban sniping at each other, with "LOLFAIL". I also saw you make snide, unconstructive remarks like these:

So please don't point the finger at me for not bothering to read. I read things like that very thoroughly.

I don't believe they're going to do something like "buy this weapon or you can't advance the storyline lol". But are you saying there's no evidence that an MMO that sell costumes, cosmetics, etc. might also sell in-game equipment?

There's also the aspect that hasn't been touched on; possible neglect for the game's normal maintenance. The cosmetic things started coming in April of this year, and this year has not been particularly kind to the game.

As far as your reasoning:
What is the "etc." for? Character slots were the ONLY thing around from "the start", and that was over a year in. The unlock things came in very late 2007/early 2008. There wasn't anything else from the start. That argument is pretty shallow, and is built on your use of "etc." when there is nothing to be listed. Why would you do that? There IS no precedent for them selling cosmetic things like this.

Also, selling skills that players can use instead of having to play the game to unlock is purely cosmetic?

I don't understand why people flipped out only on the costumes, when they are like the LEAST useful among the ingame stuffs real world money can buy.

The concept real world money buying ingame stuffs is not even recent. It is part of the game and it has been there in GW almost since the beginning, long before the online store opened.

Buying GOTY instead of the normal prophecies gives you unlimited max-stat weapons. You can literally do 3~4 times more damage in Ascalon then your fellow gamers who don't have it. (For them? it will take them all the way until the southern shiverpeaks before they can receive drops that is even comparable with what you started with.)

Factions/Nightfall LE the worst offender. It gives you an "uncustomized" minipet that sells for hundreds of Ks + whole bunch of ectos in game... no different than directly using $20 real world money to buy ingame money. Those hundreds of Ks and ectos you bought with the LE is more than enough to deck your character out in his/her first farming gear and even pay the runners to get you there.

If anything, the current direction of selling makeovers/costumes (vanity-only but otherwise useless ingame contents) is like the best direction it can possibly go towards already.

The problem isn't just that we pay for the least useful upgrade. It's also a lot because it's not avaliable IRL and that it's a visible advantage. For some reason, people think a short-term advantage (game of the year) that you can pay in a real-life store is better than something that has to be baught by creditcard.
Because a full game isn't microtransac and if they start using THEM, that obviously mean they can not not keep them in GW2! Costumes are the herald of a microtransac era for GuildWars!!!
The storage were saved that treatment simply because no one can see if you bought it, so there's no social presure to buy it too. Keyword being "no social pressure"

On my part, I don't care about micro as long as they offer no actual advantages and that they are few and far between. Or that they give more content to play!

LOL. Ever the comedian.

That's all you've got isn't? "I am right, you are wrong".

You don't give explanations of what makes you right, or how what I've said is wrong. Because you can't.

Well, if you bothered to read either ANY of my or DRGN's posts, you'd see we pretty much step by step deconstruct your arguments and why they're not valid.

I just don't like to /wallofcrit people with quote blocks.

But in the end, nothing is served by simply refuting one person's argument, which is why I've not bothered to argue with you over the validity of my posts. Suffice to say, a simple Google search on Guild Wars and its business model would turn up the evidence, but I doubt you or anyone would bother to read it, based on what I've seen so far. More than likely you'd quote one sippet wildly out of context and try to prolong the argument on logical fallacy and factual inconsistency.

But, if you MUST have some evidence, you simply need to look at when each NCSoft store item was introduced. Which of course would destroy your entire argument, since that was one of your main points of contention, the timing.

Oh well, life goes on, and you continue to be wrong.

[edit] As to the OT, micro(MACRO in this case)transactions set a precedent for future game design. As the playerbase is lazy and wants the greatest reward per unit time, so are the devs lazy and want the greatest profit per unit time.

Which means fluff or light content for maximum price, which is what the new model represents to a T. Which will encourage future content to be even "lighter" as its proven that the playerbase will still purchase it in sufficient numbers.

Basically, if you're ANet, you want the most money for the fewest man-hours. If you can get the same profit from a couple of guys working in their spare time on costumes that you would from a full team working on a full blown expansion, well I know what I would pick, from a purely business perspective.

If you endorse these types of transactions, you are condoning this development process and ensure that the quality of future content goes downhill. THAT is the issue and what is at stake, not jealousy or character uniqueness in GW1.

So?

It's unimportant because of the things that haven't changed: Gameplay remains unaffected whether you choose to buy or not. No matter how many you buy or don't buy.

Yes, there will surely be more. But I believe that they will continue to be convenience or cosmetic items that do not affect gameplay. Not things that will be "required" to play/progress. I've said why.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that I think Kaleban is the sole offender. He's just the one that keeps coming back for more.

It's a possibility. But in GW, I consider it extremely unlikely, I don't believe A-Net will take that road. I've already said why.

I use "etc", because I lump all microstransactions together. Unlike you, I make no distinction between microtransactions that offer convenience and ones that offer cosmetics.

Because neither of them affects gameplay. That makes them all the same type of microtransaction to me.

As far as I'm concerned, microtransactions arrived about a year after GW started, but must have been mooted well before that. And every microtransaction since then has followed the same pattern: your gameplay is unnafected if you don't buy.

No, it's purely convenience.

Here:

http://www.plaync.com/us/nccoin/

Sure it will never happen. Just keep your head in the sand, and believe what you like. I'll take economic statistics and proven market factors that show how a company proceeds along a business model to make my predictions.

So why do you believe they won't take that road, when they've increased the number of available MACROtransactions in their store, and their parent publisher is moving to an extremely invasive P2P system?

I mean, you must have SOME logic to defend such a strange position, or is it just religious fervor and faith in ANet's beneficence? LOLFAIL

First you make up a story that I think the number of microtransactions will remain exactly the same as GW1... and now this. One of my main points of contention is "the timing"?! LOL

You've got nothing, but you ARE the funniest.

What does that have to do with anything?
So what if NCcoins were used in GW for microtransactions?
What makes you think that would change the the type of microtransactions on offer? Even if NCcoins were introduced?

You're always good for a laugh. TY.

I've already explained previously. I could repeat it, but no point - since it seems you didn't bother to read it the first time.

Let me see if I can lay this out for you, so you can better understand.

ANet releases GW, using a bi-annual release model. Model works for a while.

ANet/NCSoft later incorporate an in-game store, with a couple of items on offer.

ANet/NCSoft expand the offerings of the in-game store, to include such things as BMP (story content), and Cosmetic enhancements (makeovers and costumes)

NCSoft introduces NCCoins, which can be used currently in other games as a testing bed, to buy any manner of items, functional or otherwise.

ANet/NCSoft working on GW2.

So, what have we learned? ANet has changed their business model for one. No harm there, many companies do it when their original fails to meet revenue stream expectations. However, the events above show that both ANet AND NCSoft are capable and fully willing to expand the new model into more areas of games and multiple games themselves.

Now, are you going to sit back and HONESTLY claim that you believe ANet has no ideas or designs to expand the offerings in the future, not just GW1, but also Aion and GW2? Given that they've already done so of course?

If you can't see what's going on, then I don't know what else to tell you really. Everyone I know in GW sees it, several people here see it, even my non-gaming gf understood the issue immediately and literally LOL'd at the people who would defend such a thing, and a bit at me for arguing about it, to tell the truth hehe.

Suffice to say my worry is that ANet, and to some extent the entire gaming industry is moving towards a P2P business model, that is more intrusive with each iteration. The whole reason I signed on with GW in the first place was the lack of microtransactions and monthly fees, when they scrapped their original plan in favor of an in game store, I was hesitant but thought it wouldn't be a big deal.

As time has gone on, its become obvious that the in-game store will become more intrusive, whether it be advertising to sale of items beyond unlocks, and that's just with GW1. Its hard for me to honestly speculate how much the store and what it offers will be like in GW2, but just a simple extrapolation of the additions and time frame show that GW2 will be much more P2P then people are likely to believe.

Only time will tell though.

NOW you're making sense, and you made good points that I have no issue with. Excellent, thank you. And you made your points without any insults.

Where we differ though, is where we each think A-Net will go from here. You take a pessimistic view that future microtransactions will include things that will affect gameplay. I disagree. I think they will NOT affect gameplay and they will remain "optional".

While I accept it is a possibility...I do not believe it will ever happen - based on what we've seen so far, and because in my opinion A-Net would lose too many customers. And I think A-Net knows it.

No - I've said it before, I'm sure there WILL be more. But the way *I* think they will expand, is different to what you think.

A valid concern. But as I've said, I don't think you have anything to worry about, I believe A-Net will stick to microtransactions that do not affect your gameplay if you don't want them.

Indeed. If your worst fears actually WERE realised, I myself wouldn't be buying into GW2. But I just don't think that's going to happen and I've given my reasons for thinking that.

I must say that in this I do agree. I posted earlier about people needing to show what they want with their wallet and now it appears that NC-Soft is indeed expanding micros. From the horse's mouth so to speak:

AION Micros

Now, while these are simply for cosmetic and convenience items I'm very much hoping that's all they are for....ever...in any of the games they put out.

I commend Kaleban again for his passion but again I must reiterate...we'll just have to wait and see all the while making A-Net/NCSoft are aware that game changing micros will not be tolerated. Again, my 2 coins...I could be wrong.

I think that they SHOULD add advantages in the game and sell them, BUT in the form of content that users can purchase.

For example, people who purchased GWEN got a lot of new PvE skills. Do these give an advantage in the game? Of course they do, but users have to obtain them by questing through the newly purchased content. That should be ok.

It's funny how people keep saying that when they already offer "macro"transactions for things that do affect one's gameplay.

And whatever we as a community worry about, ANet/NCSoft will go ahead with their plans, that's a given. The nostalgic era where GW was a clean one-time payment kind of game is gone.

I wish that were true, because that would mean that they have released new content that we can purchase and download from their online store. But that hasn't happened yet.

The silly costumes are not worth my money. I prefer to pay for something that affects game play as much as buying the GWEN expansion pack did. Making my game play more powerful would translate into even greater in-game advantage/wealth than just the stupid costumes which you cant even trade for gold or ectos.

Not to nitpick a dead horse, but ANet already offers gameplay altering MACRO transactions.

Storage pane

Pet unlocks

BMP

Extra Character Slot

GOTY Upgrade

Skill Upgrade Packs

PvP Item Pack

All of these change how someone plays a game. All the unlocks act as a "speed boost" allowing players to bypass a lot of gameplay that would unlock in a certain timeframe the items or pets. BMP is extra gameplay content, the storage pane allows for not having to mule as much and such, and more character slots expand your gameplay options.

I will GUARANTEE right now that between now and GW2's release, we'll see more MACROtransactions, both cosmetic and gameplay centric, but my hope in the end is that ANet does not wholly give over to this business model for content in GW2, because that would absolutely mean I would not buy.

This is the reason i couldn't care less about the stupid grind titles some noob korean put into the game to hook us and keep us busy in the fake promises of exclusive GW2 content.

Well i don't give a fecal matter about GW2 as i fear the path nc$oft is choosing, i wont buy GW2 the 1st day as i did with GW, i'll wait and see the business model they choose with GW2.

If there's no monthly, neither microsuckations, then i will buy, if there's the tiniest of the tiny tiny bit of separation between the rich player and the poor player, i wont take that suckship.

So GW2 no microtransaction: I'll buy
GW2 with microtransaction: I'll give my money to terrorist.

So nc$$$oft, if you make GW2 with macrosuckations you are supporting terrorism.

Those are things that I call "convenience"... they can get things quicker, but they can't get anything that changes the gameplay. People can unlock things for themselves, for free and the gameplay is no better or worse for them.

Yes, you can view it like that. To me, it just adds a bit of lore, doesn't change the game.

There was a thread on here a while ago asking if people ever replayed the BMP missions. A few do, but the majority did it once, and after that... only when they wanted a weapon with a cool skin. In other words I see the BMP more as cosmetic (BMP weapon skins) and convenience (easy way to get weapons)... than something that affects gameplay.

It's a bit grey though even for me. Seems like a mini-expansion than a microtransaction... extra content that I'd simply expect people to have to pay for to unlock, like full campaigns. It didn't come in a box though.

Convenience... Gameplay is the same, whether you bought them or not.

They let you create more characters before you need to delete one. Those characters have the same ingame options as any other, no matter how many you have.

They let you mule more stuff via your xunlai storage, without having to trade through an alt account. Again, I call that a convenience, gameplay is the same whether you have extra slots or not.

If "plain" is easy to get, and it's really skill > grind, they can charge for all the "shiny" stuff.

If they don't and cross the line, I will be re-considering GW2 in it's current form (when it comes out) and see if it's something I want to invest a lot of time in to.

All of these things are merely convenience.

The PvP unlocks have been requested many times long ago because hardcore PvPers dont want to have to play PvE to unlock their stuff. Without it, they can still unlock them as they PvP with Balthazar's Factions, just more grind.

Pet unlocks are pretty much cosmetic, one dire pet is pretty much the same as another dire pet.

BMP is the LEAST worth it. You take all the trouble to go through the quests, which should at least grant you an elite PvE skill like Ursan, but instead, you got a untradable maxed weapon without mods. How easy is it to get a maxed weapon without mods when you are level 20 without the BMP?

GOTY? You got to be kidding me. See BMP section above. Does anyone want to claim that GOTY weapon gives you such an unfair advantage in the game at level 20? The only thing they give is to reduce the grind for you to get to level 20 faster and at level 20, I have much better weapons than GOTY. Same with the fire imp, they are all grind reducers and at level 20, they dont offer an advantage anymore and that is what is important.

Storage panes? Why dont you say that by buying an extra GW box, I get a whole new account! That is even MORE SPACE than just a storage pane. Does this mean ANet should stop selling new GW boxes? It is not like we can throw the storage pane at a boss monster and kill it with 1 blow. Sure extra storage costs server space and therefore cost money in terms of real world resources that you consume. The one who consumes more than 1 account worth of resources, ought to pay for them and that is fair. Similarly for character slots.

Congratulations, you and your wife are insufferable snobs. Enjoy that.

IMO nothing wrong with micro-transactions at the moment
why does teh OP think xunlai chest upgrade gives you an in game advantage? you could buy another account and get more storage so there aren't many ways of stopping it anyway
(i didn't read much of the thread )

No they dont. How about all the people who complain about micro transactions actually try playing some of these games to see? The advantageous items that other games sell are things such as double EXP and Drop scrolls. This would be comparable to GW selling its increased drop weekend things for money, which fortunately it is not doing.

So long as the things sold are cosmetic or convenience things only, there is no harm in them. Buying extra storage is no more advantageous than buying an extra character slot and making a mule.

It's been pretty well established - like it or not - that any "content" effort is going into GW2. I don't think you can expect any real content additions to GW1.
Many people in the GW community whine about anything they have to pay for. But in the real world, internet connections and server farms cost real money, and employees usually want to be paid (so they can eat, etc.), so ANet needs to generate revenue somehow.

I recently spent some time playing D&D Online, which has gone to a micro-tran model. The items available in the "store" are all things that are also available in game, or extra content (quest packs). Pretty much the same as buying an "unlock pack" or the BMP in GW. I didn't see anything that would give a player an "advantage" over another.
Some games may try to micro-tran items that give an advantage, but I can't see that as being a good business model, overall.

Actually, you can get more slots out of a mule when you add all the various bags.

I believe you meant to say intelligent realists, but I'll let it go. At least we're not chumps and suckers like the rest of the lot that gets taken in by this chicanery.

If you like ANet's business model, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you, only a cool $2G and its yours...

Kaleban, you have an urge to predict that ANet will make micro transactions effect the game play of Guild Wars 2. Why would ANet change the entire business model of Guild Wars. Yes, we do have these micro transactions of $9.99, but the game is FREE, and I believe it still will be. If they make micro transactions have a major effect in Guild Wars 2, it would lose many customers. The reason why half of the people who play Guild Wars is because its free. They have Aion/Lineage II to make big bucks off. Guild Wars/2 is a smaller side project, and losing customers by inducting micro transactions into a major part of Guild Wars 2 would lose customers, therefore losing money to the company which could go to further Guild Wars game development, or as you state in many of your previous, go to future development of entire new games.

Is it just me or do you like insulting other people's intelligence. You seem to think you are higher than everyone else and worst of all, your ego is so big.

My absolutely favourite part about the costumes:

They make 2 costumes, charge 10 bucks for it and they can't sort out the clipping?!
Love you guys! Don't ever stop being greedy lazy RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOers!

I would think that Intelligent is far from the actual word to use, when you take a video game and its business model as laughably serious as you are doing.

No one cares if you dont like microtransactions. It is a far better model to fees and preferable to every person who doesnt want to be ripped off by paying $15 per month.

I am pretty sure that you and your wife pay for worthless things in other peoples opinions that we would enjoy laughing at you about too.

Oh wait, people actaually pay subscription fees for games? Wow, how stupid they must be. (Sarcasm).

P.S. What would you and your wife think of the people who bought my Age of Conan pre order bonus keys some time ago for an ingame mammoth and bow for £50 and £40 each? Oh wait, please dont tell your wife about that, she might have a heart attack.

Wait, what about all the people who paid £10 extra to buy a GW CE just to get in game auras and disco balls? They must be far less intelligent than you and your wife yes?

Wait a minute ... I just checked the costumes and they are permanent? The date it said they are on sale untill, I thought they expired on. Oh whoopee, I'm buying them too, that must make me stupid like durrrrrrr I am!



Oh look at me, I must be stupid for buying this yes.


Mine dont clip on my female mesmer

Nice to see all the gold buyers come out of the wood work. Buying in game items with money is just as lame as buying gold, no ones impressed, and those things you buy arent even rare or valuable so you just look dumb like everyone else. GW doesnt deserve this kind of kiddy F2P lameness.

I don't really care about micro-transactions as long as it doesn't cross into buying better stats items and the such from the store.

No, gold Buying inflates the economy while buying from the store is up to your wallet. It doesn't really matter if you think its lame, or if it isn't "rare".. some people like it and think its a good addition. I won't be buying the costumes for example, because there is no Balthazar one, rightly so because its wintersday stuff, but I am getting offtrack.

Buying stuff isn't really to impress, some like the looks of the content. I would rather look dumb than be ignorant.

What does spending money for something you like/want have to do with intelligence or realism?

If you work $10 is nothing, you spend like ten times that going out with friends.

With such arguments buying anything other than food & paying rent/utilities is retarded. Can you tell me you or your wife NEVER bought something brand just because you like it?

Didn't think so.

As for micro transactions, I don't see whats the problem. You paid for a game, you can play the game. You don't have to buy extra storage pane or bonus mission pack to be better at it. As other have said, maintenance of the servers and development of future games takes money, since you seem to know a bit about economy you should know that. I would rather they make that money from such a model than from monthly fees.

Prooves nothing, yours is a side angle shot. If you look at Upier's pic you see the clipping issue can be seen from the back.

It may also be possible that you find spots not showing the issues even if it's a pic taken from the back.

Even if yours is perfect in every way, that doesn't solve Upier's clippling issues and he paid 10 bucks aswell.

Still not as lame as paying fees every month for absolutely nothing.

I have never bought gold and never will. Costumes are hardly the same thing as they do not affect the in game economy in anyway, and provide no advantage as opposed to buying gold.


Actually, I found that if you wear the costume, run around and do any movement on your character, you cannot see any clipping at all. I then found that I rapidly pressed print screen during the motion of the wings, particularly when pressing the right and left buttons rapidly, you can easilly spam the print screen key and take lots of screenshots, and one or two will show a little clipping like in Upiers pictures.

Im not saying that Upier doesnt have a problem with clipping, but it is possible to create those screenshots while not actually being able to see any clipping ingame due to to how small an amout of time the wings clip for while they are moving.

Also, the angled side shot would show the inside wing going through the outside one if they were clipping. But it could just be that the issue is only present on female rangers as I have not seen this issue on my mesmer nor on female elementalists that I saw wearing it.

Oh, I didn't buy it.
I was just laughing at the sucker that did.

lol!

12 chars

Are you man enough to hear the answer?

Think before asking next time.

Because the world revolves around you. If a problem doesn't exist for you, it's just doesn't exist. amiright?

omfg.. srsly, this thread need to close, it's going nowhere..

Other than that..
/laugh @ poor people who can't afford $10..xD!

And no, I did not buy the costume =P