GW1 micro-transactions business model

You're ASSUMING that Anet's going to do any significant future FREE updates after gaining money from this milking process. I find that very unlikely, espcially since they see that they can charge for this insignificant vanity.

Who cares, really? As far as I'm concerned it's their decision to choose such business model and FAILED to deliver after a short period of time. They have to live with it. Customers like us, on the other hand, don't have to.

I paid for GW, not GW2 or any future products from the same company.

Yet they told the world they'd keep the same business model for GW2. What does that tell you?

For me, it's like bait & switch. "Sure, it's gonna be no-monthly-fee like GW1" and then "sorry, thing changes, now we do micro-transaction. Of course you don't need to pay. But lol if you don't."

I wish that ArenaNet would just break down and do what I wished that they had done months/years ago: Just start selling PvE title points in the darn store. I certainly would pay, and I bet thousands of players would do it too. PvE Titles are so meaningless nowadays that nobody would really care anymore.

To max a title, the game becomes so grind oriented that it's not even funny. I find it so funny that most people say that other games have intense grind in them, because in THOSE games, usually in six months you can max a rank or get a rare item that you wanted, especially if you played every day and were making some small effort.

For Guild Wars, I played constantly for over four years straight but I never once made a farming character. Because of this, I'm only 25% toward a title for Treasure Hunter/Wisdom and I don't think that I'll ever get there. I find it amazing that any company would decide that the best way to encourage people to play thousands of hours would be to invent a title and then put in a crazy number of points to max it out. In reality, the only thing that this has done is create a massive farmer/runner market.

If anybody really thinks that the game is all that fun to grind out points for a title anymore, then they really need to look at the game. Half the time, people are standing around Doomlore Shrine waiting for runs for just about anything in the entire Eye of the North expansion. I have a speedbooker in my guild and he won't even let me join him because he said that he has a backlog of people begging for him to fill books.

In Factions, the faction grind is inane at best. Nothing is faster at gaining faction than speed vanquishing using various 600/smite builds, but somehow ANet wants to pretend that it's not true. Seriously, if you want to stop people from doing 600/smite runs, then quit offering such lousy rewards for playing the game legitimately. Instead the proposed solution is to probably nerf the run, which is just sad.

WTB fame points from IGS! (In game store).

Im serious, GIMMEH TIGER.

If you dont care how they are going to support themselves then you really have no right to disapprove. I find it funny that this game is choked full of people who just want everything in life to be free, thus not caring about how a business is going to survive to meet their demands. When does no monthly fees ever imply no micro transaction?

I for one, approve of what they do because of these micro transactions, we have no monthly fees. So take your pick choose between micro transactions or monthly fees to pay for this game. I choose NOT to pay for the monthly fees and let others who care about the silly little cosmetic upgrades pay for the game maintainance instead.

Their first real problem is obviously the bandwidth they have to pay for on a daily basis considering how many people like to afk so much. Deal with that then we can start looking for things to be stable again.

I couldn't agree more.

The thing that attracted me so much to GW was the absence of grind and then they showed up with EOTN that should really have been named The Big Grind because in the end thats all it is. You can finish playing it easily in an afternoon and then all that is left is unlocking titles so you can get more useless elite armour and destroyer weapons for your hall.

And what bothers me the most is that ArenaNet has the arrogance to state that they have an anti-grind policy.

Fact is that with EOTN they told the GW customer to shove it but didn't have the decency to say this straight out to their faces.

If they had had any bussiness sense then they would have realised that a happy customer is a returning customer and they might have considered bridging the period between GW and GW2 with two or three new campains to keep things interesting. Instead they decided to dump GW and occasionally add something useless - like the costumes or a new name or look for your char - to get money out of the players. I'm not impressed and I doubt anyone is.

Sad thing is that it really is a great game but one that went downhill really fast. And I doubt GW2 will be any better.

What I don't doubt is the fact that they have lost many customers in the process and it has yet to be seen if GW2 can win them over to become their customer again.

Lousy form all around from ArenaNet.

same old same old *yawn*

If all you are going to contribute is petty crap like that then you might as well save it.

Actually it is the same old song and dance we've been repeating for the past year and a half already. I just keep wondering why some people continue to press on about it?

As for the grind, you know titles were never considered the main part of having to play well in the game in order to finish it. You look to other titles and they legitimately FORCE you to do this so you don't die within 5-10 sec of zoning into an area that's just outside your cap range. In a sense, Anet still holds true to their statement, it's just the matter of how you look at it.

Agree with most of what you're saying here, although I'd personally never buy grind points. I do agree that the game has just become a lousy grind chore, and not really that fun anymore, and they're failing to understand or implement a fun experience.

As for microtransactions in general, I dislike them. It is doubly sad to see how they've missed the point here on the microtransactions even for the people who might like that sort of thing. $9.99 for a costume pack? That isn't micro, thats absurd. Today on Steam, I can get dozens of full games for that much or less. Torchlight was released in Oct. of this year, has a good metacritic score (84) and is half of the price of the GW costume pack today! I think Anet is loosing touch with reality.

I can remember when the store actually had items worth something. Bonus mission pack? That was worth $9.99. Storage panes? Hairstyle Credits?? You gotta be ****** kidding me!

Costumes are worth $1.99 at least, wish they could get the pricing right.

In the same way, I can also find many games that are definitely more expensive to play than GW. Is it ANet's goal to make the absolute CHEAPEST game possible? Of course not!

It is up to you to decide between cost and quality. You are always free to choose to play another game rather than keep QQing about the cost of the silly little cosmetic upgrades in the forum over and over.

Personally, I dont care to cover up my elite armors, that I have earned, with a costume that makes me look like every other low level noob with all these bitching and whining.

I paid for X and got X
Any Ys and Zs added to the game are extra and Anet are not obliged to do it (nevermind doing it for free)
Besides I couldn't care less about another campaign, elite area, 10 new elite skills, new minipets (...)
GW2 is over there, can you see it? I can.

The point just flew right over your head didn't it?

To use your language, rather soon, to even PLAY ANet games in conjunction with NCSoft, you'll have to buy the base package of X, and if you even want a chance in areas outside the starting noob zone, you'll need to buy Y, and once you get to Y, you'll HAVE to buy Z or every monster will kill you, and then A and B will be necessary to buy in the online store for you to even be competitive in PvP, then C, D and E... etc.

Why people don't understand that the danger is not in one MACROtransaction but the precedent it sets that causes FUTURE game development to revolve around it? Truely incomprehensible.

Award for most outlandish prediction of the decade goes to... Kaleban. Also nominated for most hilarious.

Award for not knowing what a precedent is goes to... Riot Narita.

Seriously guy, look at games development over the last ten years, and you'll understand that while my prediction may not be EXACTLY accurate (and wasn't meant to be literal der), its a common theme in ANY business to use an existing product to introduce new ideas and business methods as "feelers" to see what the user will swallow.

Hence why even games like Oblivion, a single player offline RPG created by Bethesda, a company known for its support of the modding community in past releases, decided to NOT release their game code as they had one in the past and instead put out pay to play DLC content that many ridiculed as being overpriced. Many blamed the collusion with Microsoft, the XBOX360 and exclusivity contracts between the two.

But regardless of how and why, future games went the same way including Fallout 3.

So laugh if you like, but gaming history bears my prediction out, and common sense and practical business concerns make it logical.

I know exactly what a precedent is, and I also know that there is no precedent in GW for the kind of fantasy world you have created.

Actually the precedents are: microstransactions have been here from the start - character slots, PvP unlock packs etc... and they're here to stay. The microstransactions offer convenience or cosmetics, but do not make your ingame characters richer or more powerful ingame.

Only expansions or new campaigns do that (new skills, new professions), but those do not fit my definition of microtransations. They come in boxes.

I'm laughing...
...laughing harder now...
OMG stop now, it's TOO funny... my sides are hurting, I can't take any more...

So let me get this straight.

Are you going to sit there and say that GW2 will ONLY have the same number of overpriced NCSoft store transactions available as GW1, or less for that matter?

For real?

Because if GW2 has even one more than GW1, I'm right, and you look like a tool. So perhaps before laughing like an idiot, you should think about what a precedent is, the fact that something like the Costume Pack was released before a much hyped skill update from the vaunted Test Krewe, and that ANet has continuously released SMALLER and smaller content updates for nearly the same cost over an increasing time frame.

If you can't put the puzzle together after that, then I guess there's no help for you.

That's another fine fantasy you've created there.

No, I am going to sit here and say that GW2 will follow the precedent of GW1: Whatever microtransaction stuff they sell will only provide convenience or cosmetics, and will not make your ingame character richer or more powerful, or give any kind of gameplay advantage. No matter how many there are.

So explain by what logic you deem it to be fantasy?

Its already been shown that ANet is perfectly willing and able to deviate from their promised business model within the same game. And given that MMO competition is tight, why from a business perspective would it NOT be a good idea to go after all the money they can?

No my friend, I think you're definitely hiding your head in the sand on this one. By any logical or rational assessment, ANet and NCSoft will want to capitalize on a potential earnings market, and given that ANet "split" PvP and PvE, whos to say that they won't market these two as different aspects of the same game, perhaps selling upgraded gear (i.e. "end-raid" raid) gear to those who don't want to wait, or better PvP gear to those who wish to pay for it?

Given that selling costumes in game for real money is the equivalent of buying gold online, just from one single source, the idea of ANet offering up upgrades for sale in GW2, given all the evidence to support a deep and invasive Macrotransaction model is not only NOT far fetched, its almost a certainty.

But by all means, continue to keep you head in the sand. Have fun with it.

You took what I said and invented some new meanings for it, and added things I didn't even say. Since I know what I said, it takes no logic at all conclude that your version is fantasy.

You took this:
And turned it into this:
Is that your idea of "logic"? Is that how you "get things straight"? Where did I say anything about the number of store transactions? Or that the number would stay the same in GW2?
Shown by who? You? In your fantasy world where oranges are extrapolated from apples? Uh huh.

Show me where A-Net made any "promises" about their business model. And how they then deviated from said promises.

As much as I joke around about this I know where you are coming from. Some of those need some major retwiking, but that's for another thread.

I bought one set to say that I have it. The price was a bit of a rip-off for the amount of effort that does into design [which is little to nothing tbh]. But it's a clever business move to make nonetheless because there're plenty of suckers with such an addiction to the game that they'll probably put the costume feature on all of their multiple accounts because they're compulsive enough to squander and buy into the rarity of the costume.

You must be a phenomenal texture and concept artist to make that statement. Any chance you could share some of your work?

(I'm not entirely dissagreeing about the price mind you).

anet should have cashed in on this a looooooooooong time ago. they would have made a mint from the RMT trade. I'm willing to bet more people than you think, and know, RMT'd in this game. I would also like to bet that most people know at least one person in the game that did/does RMT transactions. If it's going to happen, and it is, why not make money from it? I mean, why let someone beat you to it and steal food from your plate?

In all reality, I must commend & condemn Anet for not doing this because I would have implemented it into the game after the first million or so went to some sweat-shop(s).

-if money is to be made it might as well go to the makers. not the parasitical gold diggers it creates. Any and all effort anet makes to grab a little cash is small beans compared to the money that they already lost..at this point in time...

So you must be an absolute tool, since you can't seem to fathom the actual point of the whole argument.

You're contending I can't tell the future. You're right, I cannot. What I can do, and what every other business and economic forecaster on the planet can do, is take a series of precedents, combined with good business sense and market savvy, and extrapolate likely scenarios for future profits.

IF the Costume Pack and other MACROtransactions available in the NCSoft store reach a certain threshold that is established by their sales' guys, then its all but assured that GW2 will include more, as it would have been shown the market (i.e. playerbase) is willing and able to bear the cost of such.

So please, stop whining about how I "twisted your words" (I didn't, I just assumed you were intelligent enough to have a decent argument), and learn some reading comprehension.

The short, short version: MACROtransaction success = more of them. Any business that DIDN'T follow through on a successful model would be just as dumb as the playerbase that buys into it in the first place.

So those that support MACROtransactions in GW1 (of which all are extremely overpriced for what they offer, in comparison to the same content $9.99 would provide in a full expansion) are directly supporting an expansion of the model in future products and sequels.

I would MUCH rather pay $49.99 for a fully developed expansion, perhaps a new class or two, multiple new areas, skills and more, rather than 1/5th the price for two costumes.

I mean, how can people support a transaction such as $9.99 for ONE Xunlai Storage Pane when they can buy an entire new account these days for around the same price?? NCSoft/ANet and the players that brown nosingly support this model are just plain ridiculous.

Kaleban, I get your passion and I assume you're a relatively intelligent person. Especially since you throw out words/phrases such as 'business sense', 'market savvy' and 'extrapolate'. Now let's use that logic you keep talking about.

I'm sure you understand (and I'm only speaking about the average American consumer) that we are LAZY. Our thinking is..."why would I buy an entire account for more storage when I can just get another pane for $10?" Again, I mean the average consumer. Another example..."I'm gonna get the unlock and pet unlock packs...because I need them". We are LAZY. We'd rather pay for conveniences rather than practicality. Don't blame A-Net for tapping into this. In fact, don't blame everyone else either, it's simply the way things are. People show what they want with their wallet...not with words.

With that said, do I want micros? No, I don't. My wife got the costume pack for one simple reason...she liked the way it made her characters look (btw, she really likes the way dervs look with them, lol). Was I upset about this micro? No and the reason is because it doesn't effect gameplay. When or IF GW and/or GW2 starts going weapon/armor/gear micros, then I will be very upset and so will many others and justifiably so.

As a business, A-Net (or whoever) owes us only one thing...putting out products that WE want. Use your wallets accordingly. I, for one, am watching this closely but for now I'm satisfied with the products they have put out.

You have no counters to what I said, so you hide behind "LOLfail" because you do not dare quote what I actually said, and you turn to cheap insults. And change the subject, because you can't defend the previous nonsense you wrote.

As I said before: Show me the "promises" that you think A-Net made about their business model. And how they then deviated from said promises.

You can't, can you?

You consider yourself a business and economic forecaster? Dude, I think you will be more successful if you concentrate on comedy.

The precedents are:
GW has had microtransactions pretty much since it first started.
Stuff sold by microtransactions offer only convenience or cosmetics.
None of the stuff sold by microtransactions makes ingame characters richer, or more powerful.

You take these precedents and, instead of predicting that GW2 will follow a similar pattern, you come up with this:
And you really think that's a reasonable prediction? What precedent do you have for making such a mighty leap - from only paying for pretties and convenience... to paying just to have "a chance in areas outside the starting noob zone" or remaining "competitive"?

It's possible, in a theoretical worst-case-scenario kind of way. But is it likely to actually happen? No, of course not. If A-net "extrapolates" the success of their microtransactions... they'll do it by adding more of the same type of cosmetic or convenience items (there is precedent in GW for this). People who want them, buy them - ANet makes some money. People who don't want them, don't buy them - and their gameplay is unaffected. Everybody wins.

They won't start charging you to progress in the game, or to stay competitive (there is no GW precedent for this). Why not? Because taking things to that extreme would turn away too many customers - the customers who like GW because there are no monthly fees, and because their gameplay is unaffected by which microtransactions they choose to pay for (if any). If ANet makes it so their gameplay IS affected by which microtransactions they pay for... they're likely to turn their backs. And I believe that's a LOT of customers. Goodbye win-win.

Even allowing for theatrical exaggeration, your prediction is plain crazy.

Uh...what? I've played since 2005 and I don't remember ANY microtransactions of this kind until relatively recently. The in-game store wasn't even around period till the middle of 2006...

I refuse to buy any of the "new additions" simply because they are stupidly overpriced for what they actually are. Setting everything at the 10 dollar mark is retarded. I mean...really...10 dollars for a new outfit? Add another 10 dollars, and you can BUY ANOTHER GAME.

yeah but the game won't make you look cool!!!

Yes, online shop was launched mid 2006, but it was known to be in development long before that. Character slots were among the first microtransactions available.

I said "pretty much" from the start - deliberately imprecise, because it's such a long time ago that I couldn't remember exactly. And that's the point: microtransactions are not new. They've been in GW for a long long time.

Want everything in life to be free? Are you kidding?

I did pay for this game. All 4 of them (yes, I had a moment of insanity and bought GWEN after telling the world I wasn't going to. Sue me). 3 of those as collector's editions. Is it too much of me to expect the things I've bought to be what I've paid for?

Sure, online games change. I know that. But is it wrong to feel cheated when said game got changed into something else entirely, something I wouldn't EVER dreamed of buying?

If I have a choice to pay to get something better out of this game. I mean to REALLY get something out of it, not just this FALSE HOPE that the next game (that I'd have to pay EVEN MORE for) will be better or that they MIGHT be something better coming to this game. I'd gladly pay for it.

When it's advertised AS SUCH? Or you're saying you weren't here before the game was released? That you haven't seen a page in a gaming magazine where Arenanet devs SIGNED on a page that this game won't have monthly-fee OR microtransaction?

I'm not even sure we're in disagreement here Daesu. I've played monthly-fee games. I'm even playing one right now. I've played games with micro-,well even MACRO-transactions. And despite the miniscule free time I have these days, I'm playing TWO of them (so it's 3 in total not counting GW). Not to mention other offline games I have on my PC hoping I'd somehow miraculously have time to play them. And I don't regret any of these.

I know what I'd get from a game with monthly-fee or microtransaction so I never hesitate to play them. Whether the game actually deliver or not is another story entirely. But when a game CHANGES into something else, that's where it becomes a problem.

Thanks for not taking the crap that people all over Guru have been throwing out lately, which can be summed up as "shut up", "you have no right to express your opinion", etc. when a criticism is levied.

First, I think it's hard to compare character slots with costumes. They're apples and oranges for various reasons; you get a number of them by default, you don't run around wearing a character slot, etc. It's a lesser point, though I'll expound on it if necessary.

Second, it's hardly a "long long" time. The number of microtransactions exploded after the release of Eye of the North. What was in the store before that? Character slots and games. The PvP version of the game, the skill unlock packs, the ability to buy the BMP(which was previously a promotional thing), the makeovers, pet unlock packs, name changes, and now the costumes; all those came after Eye of the North, and a number of them came within the last year or year and a half. I'm not arguing that all of those are horrible terrible game killers. I'm arguing that they are a pretty new thing, that they've increased a lot lately, and that a year is not a "long long" time when you consider how long the game has been around.

They do different things, but I consider them both microtransactions: you pay extra for them, they add only convenience or cosmetics, they are not required to play the game, etc

Yes it is, if you consider character slots to be microtransactions. Which I do.

I don't bother quoting people out of context to make a bad and false argument, so no I'm not going to quote what you said.

I'm also NOT going to post links to NCSoft press releases about their NCoin system that is literally a monetized microtransaction system used currently for Exteel in which they claim such a system would not work for Guild Wars and would be a bad move trying to integrate it.

Perhaps because GW is already monetized through the NCSoft store with direct monetary transactions? Nah couldn't be.

I'm also NOT going to post a timeframe showing when the Store started selling stuff like ONE Xunlai pane for $9.99, among all the other overpriced stuff because such information is available with a simple Google search and I don't feel like doing your research for you.

What I WILL do is say that my gf was curious about what I was typing, when I told her and explained what the price was for various things through the NCSoft store, her mouth dropped, and her incredulous response was "and people actually pay THAT much?" at which point she laughed rather uproariously. I could go into the unflattering things she said about people's intelligence, but that would be belaboring the obvious.

Suffice to say, the store is overpriced, the model has changed since the game came out, and ANet is gouging its playerbase for cash.

You're off by a decimal point. $9.99 is in now way "micro" except to idiots with waay too much cash and too little common sense.

$0.99 is what most would consider "micro" especially for such things as ONE extra character slot, or ONE extra storage pane, multiple of which can be gotten through buying a new account for $15 or so.

Thanks for not even bothering to read the rest of my post. It says a lot that you berate someone for not quoting a post and then do the exact same thing yourself on the same page...

I'm not even sure what your point is. Yeah, character slots were added over a year after the game's release. That's ALL they sold for about a year and a half. It took two and a half years into the game's release for them to sell something besides character slots. Are you saying selling one item is the same as what they're doing now? Adding all those things I listed above after Eye of the North was released isn't significant because "they sold character slots before"? Going from selling one thing to a metric asston, all released after the final expansion's release, doesn't represent a change in their model or anything?

I read what you posted. You think character slots are not microtransactions. You think GW's microtransactions are very recent.

I posted that I disagree with both those points, and gave my reasons.

Did you make some other points that I missed? Or that required me to quote your entire post?

I berated someone who turned to cheap insults, and dodged the points I raised, and attempted to write off everything I said by misquoting it as "LOLfail". It doesn't matter if they quote me at all, if they can counter my points.

It says a lot about YOU, that you couldn't see that. Especially given the rest of what I said (could it be that it's YOU who isn't bothering to read what others say?)
My point is:
There have been microstransactions in GW for a long time.
Sure, there's a lot more available now... but they all have something in common: they are optional, they do not make ingame characters richer or more powerful, they do not affect the gameplay for people who don't buy them.

There is no evidence or precedent that suggests A-Net's future microtransactions will be any different. Nothing to suggest that they will start to affect gameplay, be required to progress etc, the way Kaleban suggests.

And I pointed out why I think they will avoid changing the type of things offered in microtransactions.

You also don't bother to quote people when it would require you to produce counters to their arguments, and you don't have any.

Did you make a point somewhere in there? If so, what is it?

Uh-huh. Are we getting to the real crux of the matter now? Did you make all your ultra-pessimistic predictions and "sky is falling because of microtransactions" posts... simply because you think the stuff in the store is overpriced? That's a valid opinion, you could have just said so and left it at that.

I disagree. I've already explained why.

They're selling their stuff to eager customers, who are willing to pay thge price. People who don't like them or don't want to pay... are unaffected. How is that "gouging its playerbase"? Nobody is forced to buy anything they don't want, and gameplay is unnaffected if anyone chooses not to buy.