GW1 micro-transactions business model

No change, its still free to play - nothing is being sold that effects gameplay - if that occurs, then they wont see my GW2 cash.

What is this "advantage" you speak of? Being able to store 10,000 different things just in case they are used at some point in future? Sorry, I dont see that as an advantage at all or any other way a storage pane not accessible during gameplay (only when you are in town or GH) has an impact at all.

See, now you are just giving them ideas... "Past event hat pack for sale by any chance"?

Newsflash, anet stopped the 6 month expansions quite a long time ago. Where exactly do you think you are "entitled" to new content?
So you can get a campaign for $10? That does not mean a "new" campaign would be that price at all.

Seriously, dont speak about things you dont know as you obviously have no clue on the time involved in doing this.

Just be thankful Anet are still supporting the game that is now likely costing them more than it is making - just think of the alternative....
No, I dont see your "proof" at all - you discount the fact that they have spent time and energy to set up the test krewe in order to assist in fixing issues - that to me shows that they are still committed to this - quite opposite of your "proof"..



lol @ "even" - enough said

I bet to a friend some months ago that GW2 is already done, and they could start selling it tomorrow in the stores if they wanted.

But the game is now in the table of the executive and marketing people, choosing what they are gonna include in the box and what are they charging us, all those micro are just a testing field for how long they can squeeze us.

20 inventory slots, or 30? 40 maybe, if we give 60 nobody will buy extra storage..., maybe we should give 30, and some fancy promotion to get 40 for an activation in the 1st week of game...

This armor, should be elite, or should be a $$$$ costume? how many slots are we gonna to give? are dungeons to be paid?

DON'T forget, with all your "supporting" to ANET buying all tiny stuff for BIG 10 $ you are "suportting" feedback that charging for everything is fine, you are "supporting" lazy programmers who made silly "costumes" instead of working in campains, i give my money to people who earn it, not to some lazy koreans who charge 10$ for a bunch of pixels.

QFT and </thread>

Doesn't matter. If they exist I either have to live with them or quit the game.

The better option.

It doesn't give any in-game physical benefit, and if it did (which tbh some of them arguably do), that is a whole other major problem with them. Either way the only real benefit goes to Anet.

Are you implying their original model failed?

Which explains why all the best and highest selling PvP games are all one time fee games.

So they just "kept" the PvP side and updated the PvE side. I'm glad you finally agree with me on this.

As for making people happy, fine. Buying heroin also makes some people happy. Doesn't mean I agree with the buying/selling of it.

I've given them plenty of chances. I haven't seen a reason to give them any more money though.

Um no...I don't beleive artbooks and trailers are more important than balance, maintaince, and knowing how to run a competitive game properly.

It affects us if they fail then ncsoft would require subscription for all their games. Up to you all as to which business model you want to support.

So even though I am too cheap to buy them myself, unlike some people here, I encourage others to support them if they can afford to.

There's something you're not getting, so please do make an effort: there's more than "physical benefit" to GW1, the art pleases people enough for them to invest money (and time). Not everyone loves art, and among those who do some may not like Anet's art, but for those who do, these tiny things are worth paying for.

Nope.

Way to twist an argument. If I now compare Anet to a widely respected person like Gandhi, I'm not going to win an argument. People are not addicted to that, they willingly compare these $10 to the price of a movie at the theatre, a DVD, whatever, and decide it's worth it.

Again, you don't get it: it's not MORE important, it's AS important. For you it's 100% gameplay. For others it's 50% gameplay and 50% abstract (cosmetic, art, lore, etc.).

QFT. There are a lot of players out there that put a lot of stock into fleshing out their characters to fuel their imaginations. It's a carry over from the paper and pen days of RPG's. While I'm not super hard core into role playing. My character does in fact have a biography made by me, and his armor and weapons convey that fact. The Grenth costume is the most bad ass looking armor skin I've seen. Only Dhuum looks more hard core. And that costume would fit in nicely with my Warriors death knight history I made for him.

And not for nothing. Being a very busy husband and father. I would rather shell out a few bucks for the costume skins. Than have to grind away my precious little playing time acquiring materials and gold for an ELITE armor skin. In fact this micro transaction thing could do well to stop gold sellers by offering armor and weapon skins for sale. I know this doesn't work well in out younger players favor, but then again they probably have more free time to play than I do. Work, kids, and a wife requires a lot of face time form me.

More importantly. It's all optional. Which I feel keeps within the spirit of the "No Monthly Fee" business model.

I found nothing wrong at all with any of the micro-transaction like products. The name change one is a bit high and I would like another bonus mission pack, though.

What about storage? What about unlock packs? Are these simply "art"? Not to mention, even if it IS just art, Anet is sending the message that the more money you are willing to spend the better you will look (to the people who care about the art).

Then why the need for microtransactions?

Your previous claim was that microtransactions makes people happy. Fine. My claim is that doesn't neccessarily mean it is a good thing. Also an equal amount of people may dislike it.

Ok...then how is microtransactions benefitting me and people like me? You know...the people who care about the gameplay?

It pays the bill of the people working in the company that makes the gameplay?

OR....

Its pure profit for the shareholders, while the profits made from sales of the actual game are whats being re-invested for development of new content/GW2.

See, just like any other business in the entire world, ANet uses its profits, which is the money left over after all costs have been paid to make more stuff.

GENERALLY most businesses who's products release over an extended time cycle have these things called budgets, and they forecast the amount of money they will earn and earmark it for development.

WHICH means that all the content and updates in GW were paid for by GW sales, not any of the NCSoft store micro-transactions, if they were to bet on those for meeting costs, ANet could easily have lost their shirt on the whole deal.

The relevant point is that all micro-transactions are profit lining the stockholders' pockets, or is being used to develop GW2. Of course that's a spurious assumption, since any responsible company that plans on a sequel earmarks profits from the prior game for development costs.

In the end equation, all you people that get suckered into paying $9.99 for any of the various "micro" transactions are simply lab rats for ANet and NCSoft to see how much they can get away with in GW2. Not just in terms of what you'll pay for, but what you'll put up with. If a large contingent of the playerbase can be made to ignore poor skill balance, lack of new or original content, and a host of other issues including abysmal security procedures, just by putting out "shinies" that you'll even PAY for, then ANet would be crazy as a business not to take advantage of the chumps.

It may be morally ambiguous, but there it is. "Feeling out" a playerbase with these types of transactions ($9.99 is NOT micro dangit) is a prelude to a revenue model which is MORE expensive than a monthly blanket subscription fee. Not only will GW2 include these transactions, but by the time it is released, the playerbase who buys into it will be so anesthetized to the insanity they'll be shelling out cash left and right, while the WoW players look on in amazement.

My brother and his girlfriend logged on Guild Wars earlier this week to do some Wintersday stuff. Niether of them have played for months. They didn't have to pay a dime. In comparison if they wanted to do the same for WoW or Aion it would cost them, before they even step foot into the game. That is the beauty of Guild War's business model (yes even with microtransactions). You never miss out on GAMEPLAY because you didn't pay up.

For now...

Going for multi-transactions (again $9.99 is NOT MICRO!) is a first test step to see if the average sucker will fall for it. There is one born every minute you know...

Guild wars was never meant to be free. The "free" part is that you don't have to keep paying to keep what you get - no monthly fee. The core idea of first buying what you don't have to pay to maintain is the intended way things work.

Really, if anyone really doesn't get what is the logic, I'll spell it out:

You buy the game. You are expected to play the game for a while - enough to play through the content, have fun while it's fresh, get a good impression that Anet produces quality content.

When you stop having fun, you are expected to stop playing - this way, you are not an eternal money drain on Anet. You are supposed to go play other games, realize how much content and at what quality you get for your money, and when Anet publishes more content, buy it and play it.

I don't have a problem with paying for content - it's the key element. But I want the content to be mine for good, not for just as long as I keep paying.

Now, Anet has to make the new content attractive, but at the same time, they have to realize that they have to maintain the good impression that is key as the motivation for you to buy more content from them.

It's not a matter of principle, it's a matter of carefully maintained balance.

So far, Anet seems to have decided on content that has a minimal effect on gameplay. You get more comfort, like more storage or good looking stuff, BUT, you gain at worst a negligible boost in actual gaming power compared to a non-buyer.

As I said, it's a matter of balance, and so far, Anet has walked that tight rope well. I have, during all the years of being Anet's customer, agreed with almost all their decisions, and even in those cases I didn't agree, I at least saw they recognized the issues and had reasons to make the decisions they made.


P.S. I think the costumes are a bit too pricy, mind, but I still got them - because I've already got over 3000 hours of gameplay out of GW, for a tiny price, compared to other games.

Because some of us still like to play the game, is that so hard to understand.

Have you played any other games that live by micro-transactions? I think not.

A point further to this is where as the Subs game gets the majority of the $180 a year (once people have set up direct debits etc), to market, publish and distribute a game eats a lot into the $50 - you know the Walmarts/Targets/Best Buys are going to make sure they get a nice share - its only the direct sales where they benefit (which is why they created their own store in the first place).
Ad to this the fact that many of the GW games in the past couple of years at well below MSRP - then this cuts further into the income stream.

Anyway, this thread is feeling more like a politics debate, each side argues and no one changes their mind, so Im off to do some in game micro transactions on the ventaris high end ^.^

(hey anet how about "WTS pre nerf SF skill mod in the new year... ^.^)

Microtransactions like the costumes aren't the potential problem here.

The real concern is whether they will sell out and start putting content that affects gameplay in the in-game store after they sell GW2 and the expansions.

That problem is a long way off, but their past track record would suggest that they're absolutely willing to betray core principles to make a buck.

The costumes themselves are irrelevant. They're a feature that doesn't impact play. If you want it bad enough, buy it. And thank you for subsidizing my ability to play the game inexpensively. If you don't want it that bad, don't buy it. Simple up-or-down vote.

Mr. Ralph Nader is that you? You ever stop to think that $9.99 really isn't all that much to some people? Discretionary income is a beautiful thing. I guess ANET should be ashamed at themselves for trying to make a profit above and beyond what they had originally set out to make.

You can call me a sucker all you want. While I originally came to Guild Wars because of the no monthly fee feature. I'm slowly starting to realize that maybe the whole free to play feature isn't as feasible as they thought, and they are thinking of new ways to create revenue while not charging an outright monthly fee. And I don't have a problem with that as long as it's optional. If I find that my "micro-transactions" are almost or equal to what I would pay for a yearly fee for WoW. Then I will have to reevaluate how I spend my gaming dollar. In the meantime......

By the way, the door is over there----------------------->
I really don't understand why you stick around if all you have is contempt for the staff.

QFTroofNStuff

I think they are realizing just how cost INeffective releasing every 6 months is. And since the gaming industry IS a competition whether you like it or not, it is difficult to tell NCSoft that their GW investment is important if it is not bringing in as much revenue as say, Aion, which has a subscription model. The subscription model is a time tested and proven business model which most MMOs follow. The ANet free-to-play business model is a minority here.

Even if ANet can somehow release every 6 months, not taking the cost of marketing, publishing, and distributing a new release into account, $100/year/player is still only 55% of the revenue of a $180/year/player subscription based game like Aion. This means GW would need at least 80% more players than Aion has, to be on par.

It does look like ANet's free-to-play business model is inferior to Aion's subscription based model at first glance, but if ANet can attract more players than Aion can (I have doubts on this), and make up the difference through micro transactions, then perhaps there is a reason for them to continue with free-to-play. Otherwise, ncsoft is not stupid enough to continue betting on an obviously losing horse.

Even if GW2 is released with free-to-play because they promised so, there is no promise that GW3 would also be free-to-play or that GW2 would be better maintained than GW3 if GW3 is subscription based. Thus, it is important to NOT try to discourage others from supporting ANet's business model, even if you dont want to purchase them yourself.

That just means you'll need to find a different game. Or a different publisher.


To quote your previous post:
It's exactly the kind of thinking you have shown that presents the biggest problem. Carebears swallowing all the crap A.Net is shovelling down our throats.
And all because you "like" the game.

I'ma make a third point: these microtransactions are things that have been asked for since the game was released, or soon after. They kept giving us the runaround saying they can't, it'll take too long, etc. they KNOW people want them, so they figure they'll charge an exorbitant amount of money during a recession and hope for a few bites. Well, the first round of microtransactions were immensely popular, so that set off the next stage: costumes. I'll be willing to bet that there will be no more free festival hats, it'll just be costumes that you have to pay for. This game has gone from fun to a moneygrab, and people who actually care about every dollar they spend, which were the majority of people who got into this game to begin with (otherwise they'd just play WOW), are leaving. Myself included. GW2...nah. Sucks that I worked to fill HOM before these microtransactions came out...now I'll never see the benefits.

I totally agree to everything you said. They will have to offer a LOT of cool stuff in GW2 if they really want me to swallow ArenaNet embracing more and more into the micro-transactions model. The model is promising, but if often fails due to careless implementation and prices that are too often not really micro in the long run.

No I dont need to play a different game as long as this one continues to be supported. That is the whole point of the argument, as long as people buy into the micro transaction, it doesnt matter if I do. I dont care to pay for cosmetic upgrades but discouraging other people from buying them would be pushing NCSoft towards the subscription model to make up for the revenue, comparatively to their other money making franchises, like Aion.

Someone is right that NCSoft (not ANet) is testing this. If the subscription model is proven to be more popular and successful than free-to-play (i.e. micro transaction supported), why stick to free-to-play, why not make GW2.1 or GW3 subscription based?

I dont know why some of you guys seem to think ncsoft execs run charities. They would bet on whatever model is the clear winner.

o_O there will still be hats anet has never stated they were gonna disappear and they put up limited edition stuff, char slots just to give you more benefits look at any other game shops you have to pay for an xp pot.

Like any other company they want money otherwise you will not see any expansions or any new games in the future.

What do you want a B2P game and play for free or a P2P that you have to pay for every month that eventually will have micro transactions aswell.

No one says you have to pay for the stuff its on your own free will dont see why people are moaning about it.

Ironically your forum name is "nologic" which aptly describes your post.

ANet also never stated they would use a micro transaction model *using MACRO pricing) but here we are, and they have.

Like any other company profits from sales are earmarked for future development. You'd have to be extremely stupid as a business owner to bank future development on "hopeful" sales of a business model you didn't even begin with.

People are moaning about it for the simple fact that the more suckers and chumps that buy into it validates ANet's spurious assumptions that the playerbase at large is all jolly and happy with their pricing and new busines model. When in reality the reverse is true.

By buying into this load of crap (I really cannot believe how many people I've seen in game with the costumes already) the playerbase is condoning what any rational person would see as insane. First, defining "micro" as $9.99. LAWL. Second, the more people buy, the more ANet's shaky logic is validated. Third, this mentality then transfers to the development staff for all future content, motivated both by sales numbers and the publisher "pushing" that kind of content on the devs.

The end result is that any future content will be P2P, and will eventually include content normally regarded as free (potentially even carrying into skill balancing and the PvP/PvE split) or necessary, and not just frivolous cosmetic enhancements.

The tl;dr version is that ANet is taking the worst of two methods; the P2P idea of subscription is combined with the lack of support and updates in a expansion-installment method, and you have neither GW or WoW, but something worse than either.

And for all those who cry for ANet and its poor starved devs who just want a hug, realize that they made a killing in sales with GW and the profits from those sales are what fuels development of GW1 content and GW2 development. "Micro (MACRO) transactions" are simply pocket lining for NCSoft, the development costs for GW2 are absorbed by GW1 profits. Its called re-investment into future product, which any successful business does.

I swear, the level of chumpery on this forum is astounding.

I want to believe they are paid by NCsoft to create favorable opinions towards macrotransactions.

I like current system. Microtransactions that don't affect gameplay are good.


No skill balance is bad. Shadow form is bad.

Simple response from a simple mind.

Tell me, at what point do MACRO-transactions begin to affect your gameplay? Is it when ANet finally caves to the monster snowball they've started and offer PvE access to elite skins and armor via NCSoft P2P?

Or is it only when every bit of content in GW2 is P2P that you will finally realize that altering the pay method for game content changes how a game is played at its very core?

Cosmetic changes are "feelers" to see if there are enough suckers to support the feature. based on what I've seen a good percentage of GW players are total suckers, and will buy anything spoonfed to them by ANet.

So you disagree with me and have to use insult to put yourself in a higher position?

At the point I decide on a case-to-case basis.

Using the same argument you can state that everyone who bought Factions and Nightfall is a sucker because those who didn't now feel left out.

If you want to debate about microtransactions, you'll have to come up with a valid argument. Until then, I present you the business model argument: profit is good. I present you the market argument: offer and demand. And I present to you the life argument: people don't live off air, they have to earn the money to buy food, pay bills etc. And, customer satisfaction argument: players are more satisfied, overall.

The simple fact is: You need to pay for a good game. One way or an other. While you can discuss which payment options are better/ worse, it will not be for free .... even if you wish for that soooo much ;-)

To be honest, I do not care how a-net is making money as long as I like the game. And yes, I want a auction house, hardware security token, great content etc .... why am I not playing WoW? I hate the graphics with a passion ;-)))

But thats just me ...

All nice and true. However the problem seems to be that they won't work on an auction house and they won't work on security. Why? Because those updates although badly needed couldn't be sold as microtransactions. The silly costumes can. So they will work on more costumes. Simple as that.

You nailed it. They are trying out how far they can go.

The problem is, I am not sure if the feedback (how many buy the costumes) they get right now is useful. They will make a LOT of money with this. But I am not sure if gamers will like a game (read: the upcoming GW2) that might potentially be full of "micro" payments in the 5-10$ range right from the start.

The bold idealism of GW1 is gone - one of the main design elements of GW2 seems to become how to implement the cash shop for maximum effect. If micro transactions abound, active players are often better served with a standard subscription plan.

This is an unfortunate trend. For example, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age offer a lot of bang for the buck, but then they continue to milk the very core of their fanbase by offering sometimes not that "optional" "DLCs" (downloadable content packs) and other extras for "micro" amounts of cash that in the sum are higher than the original game cost you all in all!

And the horror is, I fell for this crap and bought it!

So? What exactly is a problem then - choice?

If I pay $15 each month for playing, what if I don't like additional changes? Nothing, I still have to pay for it.

With microtransaction, you pay for what you want. No more, no less.


There's nothing wrong with microtransactions if done properly. As a matter of fact I've played games where microtransactions in otherwise free game directly aid your stats and character strength. And guess what, it didn't make the game unplayable or bad! Why? Because of overall design.

As long as ANet does microtransactions in a way smart way, it's fine.

It's also amusing to see how some dont like microtransactions but like macrotransactions like Nightfall which actually imbalanced the game with some silly skills. And then GWEN. In the meantime, Prophecy skills were getting nerfed down down down.

Your ignorance out does itself time and time again. If you don't like what ANET does why do you insist on hanging around and spewing your stupid comments over and over again. You must have better things to do, Last time I looked you didn't have to sign a contract stating you must play GW even if you don't like it. I choose to continue to play for I do not have the concerns that you may have, it's a game no more and no less.

How does that benefit me again? There was better gameplay before microtransactions. (You also didn't respond to my other points).

Duh. Fortunately every game I have ever enjoyed was a one time payment (or free) with no microtransactions. Coincidence?

Because whether you like it or not, there are plenty of people on this forum who don't play the game as much anymore but post here because they used to love the game and like to be updated on it. You can spew "you have a choice to quit or not" all you want, but there are a lot of people who have quit this game due to garbage Anet has done to their game, and THAT is the core problem. Microtransactions are just a small part of that bigger picture.

I really think the people in charge are just ignorant to the fact that there is PVE meta game, where things that are assumed frivolous and not advntagous actually are valuable and hold wieght. As in PVP therefore we cannot agree to the buying of these items with real money.. They must be only obtained in game by playing the game. Not by any cash shop. Its our job to tell this to anet so they become more senstive to this fact. Im sure they really dont want to turn this into a cash shop game and the reputation that goes with them.

They do however have the right to make money somehow and there is a place for certain things that can go into their online store that doesnt distrupt the game, however selling uniquie armor / costume skins is not one of them. And its our job to let them know how we feel. Yes, cosmetics do matter, therefore should not be able to bought with real money, not unless you want this game to be that kind of game. And I dont think they do.

Nope, just an observation based on the content of your previous post. Rather than make an actual argument with some sort of reasoning to back it up, you just stated "stuff = bad." Hence, simple.

You're not very familiar with the whole concept of the "slippery slope" are you?

Nooo, for the simple reason that these two CAMPAIGNS introduced gameplay enhancements, new classes, skills, etc. that added to the gameplay already in existence from Prophecies. The money spent on these allowed my existing characters and new ones to play more CONTENT, not just look prettier. And besides, my argument isn't about "feeling left out" and crying and weeping and such, its about the problem of the MACRO transaction model, and how, in the end, it will latch on to more and more facets of the game, until ALL new content is via MACRO transaction, which is in direct contravention to the original promise and spirit of GW.

Sigh. First, are you REALLY going to claim that $9.99 for two costumes is fair or equitable, given the amount of content in a full campaign that $9.99 would justify? Just think, for the price of one costume pack, ANet could have introduced another class, hundreds of skills, five missions, several explorable areas, new character models for enemies and players, etc., etc. The Costume Pack is NOT a good deal, duh.

Profit is good. Really? Wow another simplistic statement. You know what's better for a business model for a company that isn't fly-by-night? Customer satisfaction and retention.

Offer and Demand. Okay, that makes sense as a statement that that is part of market economics, but you didn't actually argue anything! Some people DEMAND to stand out in a crowd, and ANet OFFERed it. The problem is, is there enough market demand to satisfy a large percentage of the playerbase who sit on the fence regarding the $9.99 price tag? And how will it affect those who perceive the ginormous price tag as an insult and cause them to seek other games who's developers aren't money grubbing jerks?

The "life" argument? LOL. GW has sold over 5 million copies at an average of around US$40, which is US$200 million. Any rational company with accountants will forecast sales and earmark profits for future development, unless as I said they're some fly-by-night company looking to make a quick buck. As ANet most likely isn't, given the development time of GW2, its safe to say that MOST of the profits from the sales of GW and its expansions (profit is all the money after operating costs including salaries for all employees and maintenance expense) would be funneled into future development, just like many companies do, as its the only way to assure long term survival and stability in any business environment. Expand or die basically.

So stop making simplistic statements like the ones you have, otherwise you just justify my earlier comments. It helps when having a debate to have even a small glimmer of a clue of what you're talking about, otherwise you just look foolish.

No, cosmetics do not matter. If they do, I would have bought them myself. It is fine if you dont want to buy them but you shouldn't discourage others from supporting ANet's no-subscription business model.

You want a good free-to-play MMO that is well financed so that GW2 would be released with excellent quality 3+ years after the latest release, which is GWEN in Aug 31st 2007.

ANet simply doesn't have the army of designers, developers, and testers that Blizzard has because GW's revenue is not even close to WoW's. It is stupid to demand ANet to have a new release of GW1 every 6 months while they are working on GW2 at the same time. How do you think they are going to get by from GWEN sales (from 2007) till the time when GW2 is ready?

If I am ANet I would say the hell with it and go with a subscription based model for GW2 because of all the bad rep they get from this issue, and they still need to pay their staff plus maintain their servers plus upkeep costs over this 3+ years between the GWEN and GW2 releases. At least the cheaper micro transactions are optional for game play, subscriptions are not.

The slope threaded by the brave and virtuous? Yea.

Very poor. Buy BMP+costume and your problem is solved.

So your counter-argument is that if ANet offers it in one package it's good, but if it splits it into bunch of smaller packages so everyone can choose what they want - then it's not good. Very, very poor.

Which you don't have to buy.

It is to those who bought it.

Then bargain for a better one.

Not so. For profit, sales are best. Not customer satisfaction. ANet isn't a religious organization.

Besides, on 1 unsatisfied forum "customer" (because you're only dissatisfied with what you didn't buy, so you're not even a customer), there's 100 satisfied customers who bought the costumes.

Are they willing to buy something?

If anyone is jerk that's you. ANet created a game that had a great price/content ratio over several years. Their product was worth more than people payed for it, judging by the amount of time people use it. Now, after several years that product is still here, but someone is still paying for bandwith, and as a reward for creating and maintaining such a good product, ANet has every right to offer microtransactions to receive bonus payments and they have every right to be rich.

You want a game with better price:content ratio, go find it.

I'm ok with myself thank you.