E/Mo healer or N/Rt healer?

The Josip

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

I got tired with necros and am looking at alternatives, if nothing else then for fun.


My previous N/Rt was sabway one but with Xinrae and Vengeful. Not really sure why no one uses Vengeful, I know hero will use it as a heal but chance to use it properly is very high. Also, Recuperation.

My current E/Mo uses Ether, Restoration, Prot spirit, Bond, Aegis. And then Heal Other, Healing Breeze and Patient Spirit. Dwayna's Kiss is on MM necro with whom I'm still experimenting.


What I like about N/Rt is that he not only heals but also deals damage, which I find good when everyone is at max health. Unlike E/Mo who just stands still then, N/Rt can help finish off. Recuperation helps a lot. However, I find E/Mo more reliable, even if that means manually clicking on Ether in very rare cases. I don't use Infuse on him because it's too risky (tried it, wasn't satisfied). Another advantage is that I can take whatever other heroes I want - I dont need to take MM to feed energy.


Now, I've 2 questions:

1) Why do people use N/Rt? Is it still better overall?

2) Should I make changes to my E/Mo build?

Braxton619

Braxton619

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

A/W

In vanquishes, I use ER Protter to heal my team. Even if Ether is stripped, he has enough energy to maintain the whole team (w/ 2 monk hench). This is the build I use:



Give the hero a +20 energy staff with 20% enchantment.

Yasmine

Yasmine

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2007

The Lost Souls Of Jugdement [KJCD]

I'd like to ask some questions to those that use e/mo hero too - I'd like to try it, but i confess, i'm a little uncertain - does it require micro? And do you have to flag it back in areas with enchant stripping or it can deal with it?

AtomicMew

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

Vengeful is bad because the damage is disperse and untargeted. In other words, in won't actually increase your relevant DPS. It also means you can't have things like splinter weapon or weapon of warding on you.

As for N/rt vs E/mo, they both have their ups and downs, but most people agree that E/mo is generally better.

The Josip

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yasmine
I'd like to ask some questions to those that use e/mo hero too - I'd like to try it, but i confess, i'm a little uncertain - does it require micro? And do you have to flag it back in areas with enchant stripping or it can deal with it?
No micro. I can't stand hero builds that I have to micro, I feel like I'm playing Hero Battles then. If I wanted to micro I would be playing strategy games.

Very rarely my EMo will be in some situation that requires me to cast Ether for him (or prioritize it), or pre-cast prot spirit on someone. But we're talking about extreme situations here.

Quote: Originally Posted by trcvrs View Post
Vengeful is bad because the damage is disperse and untargeted. In other words, in won't actually increase your relevant DPS. I see what you mean, but isn't that what MM also does? Those minions are quite random, arrive to the battlefield late, run around headlessly, and occasionally die and explode. I assume in this case a bit of distraction makes them worthvile.. I guess.

Quote:
It also means you can't have things like splinter weapon or weapon of warding on you. I don't even use splinter because I usually run all-caster team, with the exception of Paragon/Ranger. Not sure if it's worthvile to take splinter just for him.

I don't use Warding either, because my Nrt used Xinrae and Vengeful, so not only would I have to replace Vengeful but also Xinrae/WoRemedy. What elite would that NRt use then?

The Josip

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

By the way, aren't +hp mods better than +energy? Or not in this case? That is, should my EMo be in Radiant and +5+5 staff, or should he go with hp mods?

Mesmer in Need

Mesmer in Need

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

[ToA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braxton619 View Post
In vanquishes, I use ER Protter to heal my team. Even if Ether is stripped, he has enough energy to maintain the whole team (w/ 2 monk hench). What's the point of three healers on a team? If you need the extra monk just to back up the ele when ER get stripped, you would be better off just dropping the ele for a support role with damage.

Braxton619

Braxton619

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
By the way, aren't +hp mods better than +energy? Or not in this case? That is, should my EMo be in Radiant and +5+5 staff, or should he go with hp mods?
On my ER, I put all HP mods on him. Then I give him a +20 energy staff with 20% enchanting. He has 86 energy with those modifications. He never runs out of energy even if ER is stripped. He also has about 600 health.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need View Post
What's the point of three healers on a team? If you need the extra monk just to back up the ele when ER get stripped, you would be better off just dropping the ele for a support role with damage. In vanquishing, I usually take the following henchman: 2 monk henchman, Herta, warrior or ele hench

Heroes: Spirit Spammer/Melee Support (SSMS), ER Protter (ER), and Jagged Bones Minion Bomber (JBMB)

I spam SY and do about 250-400 DPS. Groups normally go down in seconds.

The Josip

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

Oh, I meant Spirit Bond. Don't like maintained enchants.

The Josip

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

Dwayna Sorrow is already on MM.. I just dont know what else to put.
I had DKiss on EMo already, testing it. But I thought Breeze might be better. Still not sure.

maxxfury

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

[DVDF] Gp

Me/A

off the top of my head my vekk runs :
[Infuse]
[prot spirit]
[spirit bond]
[aegis]
[jameis gaze] or [dwaynas kiss]
[aura or resto]
[ether renewal]
[life attunement]*disabled and micro'd at start of zone

Runs pretty much on auto pilot other than the usual PS precast for mobs that i do with any hero backline.

leave small packet pressure/condition/hex clean up to someone else

Yasmine

Yasmine

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2007

The Lost Souls Of Jugdement [KJCD]

Thanks to pple who replyed to my other questions, now i have more Is an e/mo healer/protter viable in 4/6 men areas?

EDIT: tried an e/mo hybrid for fun in a 4 men area:
result: some granite and an elite me tome... on topic, apart from obviously missing any good self heal, the hero fails to use infuse properly - might be just my impression, but it seems he used it more often on minions between battles then to heal fellow party members in need ><

mage767

mage767

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

LOVE

Me/E

Dude, just combine ER and resto skills into one amazing ER resto build. It's that simple.

MercenaryKnight

MercenaryKnight

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2006

Wolf of Shadows [WoS]

P/

I agree with the concept of 2 main healers and then general support skills thrown on other damage builds. Using a 3rd slot to spam protection spells is kind of counter productive. Especially if you run save yourselves on your character. For an ER healer you could basically put a copy of protective spirit and aegis on like 2 chars for support (say discord for example) and still have the same damage.

Now if you could use 1 healer and 1 ER and cover all the damage then it'd be worth while.

Carinae

Carinae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Inside

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

Prot Spirit
Spirit Bond
DKiss
Infuse
Convert Hexes
Aegis
ER
AoR

10 heals
10 prot
13 ES

Hale Staff of Enchanting (prot or heal req)

Survivor + minor ES + Vitaes = ~621 hp = stronger Infuses

MercenaryKnight

MercenaryKnight

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2006

Wolf of Shadows [WoS]

P/

If your running with 1 hero healer+ the er hero then I like to bring heal other instead of infuse health. Odds are most of the time you won't need a 200+ heal and having the ai always healing/ protecting the er who is losing the health sucks for the most part.

Yuna Matsumarui

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2009

Me/

E/mo prot is amazing. one time my entire party wiped except for Zhed. then, he kept himself alive for over 10 minutes (was curious how long he'd stand out) as long as there's no or little enchantment removal they own. never tried it with Infuse though.

MercenaryKnight

MercenaryKnight

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2006

Wolf of Shadows [WoS]

P/

E/mo human would be tons better because you can run the protective bond enchant for yourself/ others and be able to spam infuse all you want since you know how to use the build. Plus if you use physicals you can spam gdw or other support pve spells for them.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:E/Mo_ER_Infuser

That link will show you the basic for the human build.

Yasmine

Yasmine

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2007

The Lost Souls Of Jugdement [KJCD]

A little question: E/Mo hero protter pvx pages tells to set the hero to guard, but I confess I don't get the reason behind that