E/Mo healer or N/Rt healer?
Yasmine
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
This isn't an issue for casters obviously.
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Originally Posted by mage767
I don't mind setting my ER hero to avoid, because it turns out that the ER getting aggro is good:
1. I doubt the enemies can even take him down...lol 2. They can chase the ER all they want, buying the team some time. 3. Theirony is when the ER hero is attacked, he seems to get 'pissed off', and goes on hyper mode, spamming prot spells all over the place. So, my verdict is, set to avoid. Lol, poor thing. 
HigherMinion
I prefer it when the ER doesn't take heavy aggro. Sometimes (if human) the ER will get cocky, aggro everything and pretend to be invulnerable; until it's Knocked Down, interrupted or stripped of ER. Then there will be alot more fatalities to come.
Set to Guard and give the hero a long-ranged weapon to use. Be it spear or a bow.
AtomicMew
Or you can set to avoid and flag... I don't see the problem.
Trader of Secrets
This is a question about the E/Mo healer hero; how many bonds can this hero maintain so that hero can decently maintain energy, considering this in a vq setting for 8man map packed with +250 guys.
Arrogant Bastard
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Originally Posted by Trader of Secrets
This is a question about the E/Mo healer hero; how many bonds can this hero maintain so that hero can decently maintain energy, considering this in a vq setting for 8man map packed with +250 guys.
I wouldn't use any bonds.
Also, lately I've been using Infuse on my ER hero again and it works pretty well even with an MM.
Life Bringing
People still use N/Rts because they can pack offensive assistance and shit like weakness and shadow of fear very easily. Additionally, N/Rts have hawt party healing through PwK and Life.
Lanier
E/Mo's are definitly the way to go. I starting using an ER protter build on Zhed a few weeks ago and i havnt taken him out of my party since. The difference in party survivability is very significant.
Zhed uses: ER, AoR, Protective Spirit, Spirit Bond, Infuse, Dismiss, Aegis, and Life Attunement Prot: 12 Energy Storage: 11+1+1 Heal: 6
JDRyder
tbh i don't really see the point of the ele prot build. Generally discord way with monk hench is good enough. Sure the ele prot build may offer better party survivability, but if you actually need that much survivability you'd be better off changing your playstyle to something more effective (eg killing healers 1st rather than tab+space bar
JDRyder
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
It also has damage unlike the ER ele
Well yes, but comparing a 4 bar team build to a single bar hero build is retarded.
maxxfury
With 6 heroes then dedicating one slot for an infoozer is almost a no brainer due to how OP they are.
If your h&h then maybe its better to take hybrid offensive heroes + monk hench as they really crap all over the output of the damage henchies (unless something drastically changed with the hench bar rerolls) unless the area is REALLY tough and needs the extra broken defense the infoozer brings, but then that also means different tactics also.
Dusk_
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
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Quote: Originally Posted by Wiktionary Noun
crutch (plural crutches)A device to assist in motion as a cane, especially one that provides support under the arm to reduce weight on a leg. He walked on crutches for a month until the cast was removed from his leg. Something that supports, often used negatively to indicate that it is not needed and causes an unhealthful dependency; a prop Alcohol became a crutch to help him through the long nights; eventually it killed him. H/Hing isn't a crutch. If you're used to or expect people to play with decent players then H/Hing is more like breaking your leg.
As for the ER Ele being too much defense; well there are times when the two monk henchmen simply do not suffice and you want the large energy pool and returns that ER gives to churn out much needed prots.
Xenomortis
Life Bringing
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
As for the ER Ele being too much defense; well there are times when the two monk henchmen simply do not suffice and you want the large energy pool and returns that ER gives to churn out much needed prots.
Tell Jeydra that 
. Jeydra did Duncan with 1 healer hench, kaolai, and spirit light. Oh, and standard prots on an MM.
. Jeydra did Duncan with 1 healer hench, kaolai, and spirit light. Oh, and standard prots on an MM.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Life Bringing
. Jeydra did Duncan with 1 healer hench, kaolai, and spirit light. Oh, and standard prots on an MM.Jeydra however is considerably skilled at H/Hing with an Ele primary and by microing and pulling mobs properly can get by without a dedicated defense hero.
If JDRyder can replicate such achievements using the 2 healer monks with only medium support from the heroes (let's keep it caster primary on the human, because SY is insane defense and "oversurvivability") then I'll fold.
Life Bringing
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
Jeydra however is considerably skilled at H/Hing with an Ele primary and by microing and pulling mobs properly can get by without a dedicated defense hero.
If JDRyder can replicate such achievements using the 2 healer monks with only medium support from the heroes (let's keep it caster primary on the human, because SY is insane defense and "oversurvivability") then I'll fold. You probably don't recall it because it was done 2-3 days ago. I explained the duncan glitch and he went to try it lol. You might also want to check out EFGJack's screens on the h/h time trial contest. Lots of incredible times without an ER, and, iirc, most didnt use sy either.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Life Bringing
You probably don't recall it because it was done 2-3 days ago. I explained the duncan glitch and he went to try it lol. You might also want to check out EFGJack's screens on the h/h time trial contest. Lots of incredible times without an ER, and, iirc, most didnt use sy either.
This one? http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5026/forge31.jpg
That's pretty much the only one what matches your description (I did subscribe to that thread, just never posted).
4 defensive characters. The damage the heroes do is marginal - a couple of copies of RoJ and Mark of Pain (the biggest damage dealer with the player build).
That's pretty much the only one what matches your description (I did subscribe to that thread, just never posted).
4 defensive characters. The damage the heroes do is marginal - a couple of copies of RoJ and Mark of Pain (the biggest damage dealer with the player build).
HigherMinion
If what you are trying to do is compare one ER hero to one Discord hero with heals. If you're running Discord then you will die a fatal death against tough mobs if you either don't run prots, or your hero runs out of energy/is busy casting discord and other offensive skills.
If you run one ER hero, you are going to be receiving reliable heals constantly through big fights, with massive spike-heals and, most importantly, Protective Spirit.
But what you *can't* argue is that 3 discord heroes>three ER heroes. This is absurd.
If you run one ER hero, you are going to be receiving reliable heals constantly through big fights, with massive spike-heals and, most importantly, Protective Spirit.
But what you *can't* argue is that 3 discord heroes>three ER heroes. This is absurd.
Xenomortis
Fold .
JimmyTyme
SoLS healers on pvx wiki are amazing 2 of them can heal a group in HM with ease MUCH better than an E/mo ER proter soo n/rt is best IMO
Arrogant Bastard
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard
So your argument is that 2 n/rt healers are better than 1 er hero?
His argument is nothing; he hasn't explained WHY. So you can forget about that post until edit.
Arrogant Bastard
I'm guessing Mallyx is the only place you pve since apparently enchantments are useless.
Also, you can bring condition removal on ER heroes.
Also, you can bring condition removal on ER heroes.
JimmyTyme
Dusk_
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Originally Posted by JimmyTyme
mallyx isn't the only area with enchantment removal not to mention a good majority of the ER protter is made for extreme pressure on a single target (or low amount of allies) as opposed to the comparatively minor party-wide damage that's oh soo common amongst groups in pve
Apparently you don't play Hard Mode then, because party healing is crap for actually surviving anything, and every mob you fight is capable of dealing out extreme pressure.
ER spams Prot Spirit and Spirit Bond. Prot has a 5 second recharge, Spirit Bond has a 2 second. That means in the time it takes your amazing party heals to go off (PwK with 25 second recharge, Life with 20 second activation time), an ER Hero has stunted any damage on 3-5 allies and still has maxed out energy.
What's actually hilarious is that a N/Rt can't do anything better than an E/Rt. ER is better energy management, better self-heal, and will let your hero use better spells. The only reason Monk is used over Ritualist is because when the energy is infinite, Monk spells are simply better.
ER spams Prot Spirit and Spirit Bond. Prot has a 5 second recharge, Spirit Bond has a 2 second. That means in the time it takes your amazing party heals to go off (PwK with 25 second recharge, Life with 20 second activation time), an ER Hero has stunted any damage on 3-5 allies and still has maxed out energy.
What's actually hilarious is that a N/Rt can't do anything better than an E/Rt. ER is better energy management, better self-heal, and will let your hero use better spells. The only reason Monk is used over Ritualist is because when the energy is infinite, Monk spells are simply better.
Arrogant Bastard
Life Bringing
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Originally Posted by Dusk_
The thing with an ER is that it's complete overkill in 95% of the game, and doesn't really accomplish what you'd need. Sure, it stops big damage spikes on a few chars, but if you took the time to pull properly and flag your heroes apart, you wouldn't need that. Even in the areas that may find a use for an ER, it still needs a n/rt or something similar because it lacks a strong partyheal.
The best thing about necrits is that it combines strong partyheals, with strong spot heals, with strong utility. You have Spiritlight for redbargoesup. You have PwK on insane hero reflexes to quickly recover from a hit of some random aoe, so quickly that you probably won't even notice you got hit by aoe. Then, it can pack Weakness for -66% damage, shadow of fear which screws up melee even more, and after all this, it still has it's elite.
While ERs are strong in theory, in practice they are somewhat subpar. Heroes don't preprot, so they won't really stop damage spikes unless a character is already being attacked by a different source. Even though they have these great prots available to them, they are mostly unnecessary. The major necessary prots can easily be slotted on your MM, leaving an open hero slot for more damage or utility.
Disclaimer: I am by no means saying that the ER ele is a bad build. I am simply saying that it is mostly inefficient and that there are better options for random vanqing and dungeons
Daesu
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Originally Posted by Life Bringing
And please stop quoting Jeydra's heroes build on his caster without mentioning that he doesn't have a single melee on his team. Also with a ER, a melee character group would not have so much DP.
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While ERs are strong in theory, in practice they are somewhat subpar. Heroes don't preprot, so they won't really stop damage spikes unless a character is already being attacked by a different source. Even though they have these great prots available to them, they are mostly unnecessary. The major necessary prots can easily be slotted on your MM, leaving an open hero slot for more damage or utility.
ERs are not subpar. ERs usually focus on protection, N/Rt is a healer, so you cant say one is better than the other. You can use heroes to preprot manually and prots are usually necessary for hm, otherwise we should be back to the prots vs healing debate. MMs are not the best place to slot a PS with their 3 seconds animate minion and 2 seconds death nova, so they may not be able to cast prots at crucial times. But for a 3-heroes team build, there is a constraint so MMs typically bring the prots. ER is very useful especially for a melee character, being able to bring SoH as well as prots to keep the melee character alive in the toughest situation in HM.
Myotheraccount
SoS rit with PwK + SoGM communing rit + AoTL MM with some basic prots > all IMO. :3
You don't need to dedicate a hero explusively to healing. Henchies are enough. Just for discussion's sake though I say N/Rt is more versatile and better healer than E/Mo. Heroes have a very hard time using E/Mo because they often forget to stack up a few enchants and will spam Infuse when ER is down. ER also lacks strong party heals that N/Rt has. Ruscour
Bringing out Vekk to prot has been the best move I've ever made in this game. I usually play with a friend and my heals (I play a Ritual Lord resto bar), E/Mo prots and the offheals from her D/N Orders, everyone survives things!
My three favourite heroes, Livia (who could argue with those boobs), Xandra (female, Luxon, ritualist, perfect!) and Vekk (Asuras are just awesome) always roll with me now. I'm a very happy camper. |