Botters in PvP (Preventive actions for RBR)

I only joined this thread several pages ago. Concise doesn't cut it when you jump into the middle of quotewars. However, I do believe this thread has run it's course. It is quite clear that everyone now posting is either in agreement with Borat's opening sentiment, or is so vehemently opposed as to be in denial of the issue, despite evidence to the contrary. I would not protest a closure.

I'll put it this way:

- I think that a limited amount of productive discussion has come out of the thread.
- I don't think we're going to get any further.

The bots unquestionably change the nature of the game. I think everybody (except some of the botters) would agree that those changes are undesirable. The issue on the table is degree.

At the core of the dispute over the issue's relative importance is whether a stupid machine with a complex decision tree and a human controlling its movement is unbeatable in GW.

It may be less stupid. But it's still a stupid machine, and this provides a point of attack. Others seem to think that doesn't matter, and that the machines cannot possibly be beaten.

I probably should have cited PvE as Exhibit A for why humans > prescripted behavior irrespective of how high you pile the scripter's advantages, but I'm sure the people on the other side would claim that the argument is flawed due to some human control of the bot and due to the fact that the scripting behavior can be varied in response to human innovation. I'd say that the first point is wrong but the second point is more problematic. If it's just an arms race in the limit, eventually the botter wins but it's going to take a while. See: IBM vs. Kasparov.

The other issues on the table are in my view still important but peripheral, in the sense that players that insist that bots are invincible will not concede the validity of the other issues.

I'd advise players that badly want to see change to do two things. First of all, I'd try to arrange some civil disobedience that makes the issue an embarassment to ANet. Second, I'd work on reducing the cost to ANet of closing the loopholes that are being exploited. Since there is a popular, open source program being used, you have the privilege of being able to see exactly what is being done and suggest solutions.

Many of you claim expertise in coding. I suggest you collaborate in putting that expertise to work if you want to see change.

BOTs of every type could be easily detected (and kicked) by the game (if developers program it property)

Every single BOT does something to clearly identify itself as a BOT. It's a BOT, it's programmed with simple instructions, real humans are more random (hundreds of times more random than even BOTs programmed to be random)

lol? i dont know what im talking about? dude i probly played more snowball, dball, and racing then you think. and i certainly played alot more then you can imagine during the festival events. yet through all that gaming, ive never ever heard of the likes of pickup bots and dodgebots, bots that can detect hidden rocks, untill this thread came up. and now you claim that some one can create a bot in a matter of minutes? do you srsly know how programming works? its extremely rare for a program to work on the very first try, and will require extensive amounts of rewriting, testing, and troubleshooting at the very least.

now if you read my post carefully, and do not misinterpret it on purpose, you will find that nowhere in my post did i disagree on the negative impacts the bot have on the gaming community, nor did i ever attempt to downplay the issue. I am simply suggesting a differing view concerning this issue. if you do not agree with my arguments, then maybe you should atk my arguments rather than my character

What? This issue is incredibly important to everyone who plays pvp and knows about it. Characterizing it as just a few whiners on guru is way off the mark. The problem is that most people gave up on trying to get any results when dealing directly with a-net, and certainly most gave up on guru riverside over time when thread after thread about all kinds of various issues get closed by a mod for reasons I described earlier.

I'm sure there have been tons of 'last straws' that cause people to stop playing over the years, but this is a potentially disastrous one that needs more attention before it's too late. And no matter how disagreeable this forum area is, some people still feel strongly enough to come here because its one of the few places that populist gw rage can still catch anet's attention and create (late) change.

Please, any objective reading of this thread will notice how off-topic and spammy your fellow mod martin's replies have been, which fueled this thread going in circles this long. Over 14 pages, he has constantly fixated on any sentence even gracing a strategy or tactic from snowball or rollerbeatle arenas in discussions of bots, and gone into dissertations on his thoughts & personal experiences of elite strategy for those arenas. That could be interesting for someone in the glad's arena forum interested in pvp/minigame strategy, but has no bearing in this discussion.

It's always bad practice to question someone's motives, but I tried to point out in my first post martin's clear conflict of interest because his personal guild is implicated. To allow him to act as a neutral party (which is basically one entire of side of this 'debate'), filibustering with objectively off-topic, long, quotewar responses is incredibly biased. And then characterizing the thread as being "clogged" by the other side with a legitimate complaint as they get more and more frustrated by martin's stonewall devil's advocate and close to needing a lock/deletion is just blindness.

Last part of what the above said ^

It's Martin's right too defend his guild, but it indeed doesn't put him in a neutral position.

Secondly, I don't care if we're creating 'productive' conversation or not. The goal initially was for Regina, Gaile or Martin (The other one) to notice it. I'm pretty sure we ALL know by now bots DO exist, ARE getting used by certain individuals, and guilds and SHOULD be dealed with.

As I have also said a couple of times before, 29th of January is the final date I want a reply from Anet. As suggested (Or hinted) by Martin himself (The Guru mod), if you can't reach out to Anet, force them to deal with you.

You can't force them to deal with you. That's kinda where the plan falls apart. Martin certainly hasn't been a neutral party and I'd also like to mention that he hasn't been moderating any part of this thread. That's one plus at least.

From this point, I'm going to start deleting anything that just goes back and forth like the last few pages have been. Martin, Borat, Revelations, if you'd like to keep discussing this please do so via the private messaging system.

Hopefully that should keep everyone happy, and get this thread back on topic.

I'd just like to tell a story, mainly for the few that seem to believe that not a lot of harm can come from bots anyway.

Few years back, before Source came, I was co-leader of a semi-competitive Day of Defeat clan. We did allright, entered a few ladders, ranked around 6th or 7th, which was pretty decent.

Then cane the hackusations. According to many, several of our players, some at the top of their game, were using wallhacks and aimbot. We defended them of course, because we'd known these guys for ages. They didn't hack. Or did they?

Turns out that they were, and had been lying to us all along, well most of the way. They were, after all, rather skilled players, one was even a pro CS player with quite a rep who had made quite a bit of r/l money in competitions. Amazing players. Yet they still botted. Why when they were already good players did they bot? Who knows. Perhaps the reputation they'd earned was the driving force. Fear of falling off of a perch tends to drive some people that way.

*Edit: Good bot users know how to use their bots properly. Detecting them took a long time, and they were only caught because they made simple arrogant lapses of judgement, i.e. they thought no-one important was watching.

The end result was moot. Our clan fell to pieces, our names were smeared simply by association, our clan was known from the day they were caught as a hack/bot clan. Thousands of my personal hours put into building the clan, building the forums, building the community, smashed because of 3 or 4 bandits. I walked away from competitive DoD, and the clan, without a word. It sickens me to this day.

Out of all this, you can't fail to see at least one aspect of what bots do. Anyone who knows about aimbot, also knows about the damage that it has done to any number of FPS games, and the reputation of players, even whole communities.

Point is, we're right to make a bloody furor over it, aNet is acting like a stubborn 2 year old who wants the sweets.
The fact that they addressed several other threads of the same level of importance as this, and are still completely stonewalling this smacks of it. "I've got my eyes covered!!" "You can't see me now!!"

Neither of those 2 facts are going to matter for shit if the same sort of bot invasion hits GW as has done to other, more successful games in the past. The companies who've attacked botters and hackers visibly and strongly, still have their customers and several have grown to stellar proportions, the ones who didn't hit the nail on the head as soon as it stuck out, well. We don't really hear about those guys anymore, do we? I wonder how life's going for them..

This is correct. But you certainly cannot calmly ask them about something and ever get them to deal with you.

You're fairly delusional to think your thread deserves a direct response from anyone at ANet.

The best you could possibly hope for is Regina or Martin K. to start a new thread in Riverside that links to some place on the official wiki or webpage where they make a statement of how they've been following the bot situation and any steps they're making against the situation, and that's probably only going to happen once they start showing significant progress in that department.

You want it before the end of January? You won't see anything particularly revealing from them until after the full skill update for PvE is released mid-Februrary.

Snowball AT's, and the week after RBR...

Posting from a GvG perspective, though it applies to other formats as well.

Yes, you can deal with bots. In fact, any top team will mop the floor with a lesser botting team because they're just flat out better. The problem comes when, in a hypothetical situation, two of the best teams are going at it and one of them is botting and the other is not. The nature of the latest generation of bots means that the player is still in control of his character and can take over manually to deal with any unexpected occurences, and then go into overdrive when necessary. This makes it increasingly harder to outplay them, although not impossible.

Yes, you can change builds/tactics to deal with bots but you make it sound a lot easier than it is. First of all, (from an American perspective) EVERYONE already runs non-disruption builds that can deal with enemy interrupts because of the increbile ordeal that is playing on 206. No matter what you run, going onto Euro servers vs. an enemy disruption build right now is almost a death sentence...skills are blinking, some people experience minor freezes regularly, hell its even hard to cancel sometimes because pings get high enough to where you get interrupted before it registers for you. Yes, you can run more defence but teams are already running as much defense as they can get away with and still score kills. You can't run 3 bsurges and 3 monks and expect to win, especially because of...disruption on the enemy team. If you only have a minor kill threat and it comes from elementalists, they can split back disruption + healer and dshot your skills and they'll win at the tiebreaker since they can't be killed.

The point of this is that people already run as much defense as they can get away with and still bring kill threats. People are already trying to survive against disruption in as many ways as possible, especially with the server imbalances. It's possible, but extremely hard. When you throw bots into the equation and put enemy disruption into overdrive, it makes things nigh impossible especially on visiting servers. It's not a huge problem in competitive play, but the potential for abuse is still there and it could get worse at any moment. Banning everyone isn't even the best solution, since a lot of the people I have seen running bots recently are real players and losing them would be incredibly detrimental with how few people are stil pvping.

Bots are not unbeatable, but extremely retarded. This post is lengthy, rambling, and is meant to adress some of the random things people said in 15 pages of a stupid thread.

Hi Heracles. First, let me just say thanks for all the zkeys you guys have won me..

After everything that's been said here, the scenario I laid out, one of the coders of the bots themselves, and now a top PvP'er to back it up. How much more evidence is needed?

It's as clear as the nose on your face that bots are a problem, there's not much a well-coded bot can't do, they are increasing in number, pretty soon the rate will become exponential, as at the mo', anet are making it abundantly clear that it's A-OK! I can see, just as in other games where bots are a major problem, that soon bot's will be the problem in GW, especially with anet's aforementioned lax stance on them, and their obvious stonewalling of this thread.

I don't agree with threats of widespread distribution of the latest and greatest botting app, sorta feels a bit like trying to hold anet to ransom, which through history, is proven not to be the most reliable PoA. I would go so far as to say that the member making the threat needs to make a written apology for the threat right here, as well as forwarding a copy to Regina, to try and clear the slate and get this ball rolling.

To aNet: I'm sure most of the posters in this thread would agree with me when I say that I think we are all chasing the same end result that you are, a game that is as clean and free of bots and hacking as we can get it. From experience over decades of gaming, I know full well that this process requires both devs and players to co-operate, as an agressive and active stance is needed in respect to these sort of threats.

Come on ppz, they will listen, but they sure ain't gonna play ball if we prove we're too immature to follow the rules of play. i.e. Co-operation, patience and as much info as we can provide as a community to help them.

Yes, I realize the timing is horrid. But the skill balances that have been worked on for months now are coming into a stage where they can finally be released. They're not going to drop all of those planned changes to throw everything at this issue of which they don't seem to have an immediate or thorough solution.

I don't expect an immediate solution, I expect:

"Dear community, we are working on banishing the bots from GW PvP. The fact that GvG and holiday events are getting farmed by AI is repulsive to say the least. We'll monitor the upcomming Snowball At's, aswell as RBR the week thereafter."

Something amongst those lines would be fine for me...

The fact the ANET can go right to the "Freaking Program" on Google, examine it download it and use it firsthand should make them jump right to the end result, the removal of this program from use in Guild Wars. In the meantime A good first step from ANET would be a simple "We are aware of the issue and researching it" plus a strong reiteration of their no bot policy and violators will be prosecuted would go along way.

I shudder to think what will happen when the RMT's get hold of this and put it into mass farming production across the whole game. Maybe that will be the straw that breaks the camels back on this.

I cannot imagine that ANET cannot find this program on Google code, however if they cannot find it feel free to PM me, I will point you in the right direction.

This mirrors Blizzards lack of response for the longest time in Diablo, it was considered approval by many to use bots/hacks due to the lack of action and communication of its stance about the issue.

Once widespread use of bots permeates the game and silence by ANET accompanies it, what will people think?

/begin over the top analogy/
Do not make laws and not enforce them.

Salutary neglect was a large contributing factor that led to the American Revolutionary War. Since the imperial authority did not assert the power that it had, the colonists were left to govern themselves. These essentially sovereign colonies soon became accustomed to the idea of self-control. The effects of such prolonged isolation eventually resulted in the emergence of a collective identity that considered itself separate from Great Britain.

/end over the top analogy/


Edit:

This is from the CEO of SecurePlay discussing account security but this applies here also:


1. Aware – Tell your customers that you are aware of the problem and are taking it seriously. Let them know that they (the customers) and their issues are important and that the integrity of the game is critical to the company.

2. Triage – Figure out what immediate action you can take to stop the problem from getting worse or spreading.

3. Investigate – Figure out what is really going on.

4. Patch – Identify short term solution or work around to get things "almost" normal.

5. Repair – Fix the problem and reconstitute the game.

6. Reflect – Look to see if there are related vulnerabilities in the game design, business operations, or other areas that can be exploited and fix them before they fix you.

Actually the OP's move is correct.
The bot issue is not adressed because it is not enough widespread. Putting links to all the PvP bots will encourage 95% of the PvP crowd (even the PVE crowd wanting those shiny PvP titles) to use them, just because of the two mottos of GW play: "Play to win" and "if you can't beat them, join them".

Point:
Back in time, the dishonor system didn't exist. Then leaving in RA became a widespread problem, to the point where a team with no monk had 1-2 leavers. When it was a secluded problem, (no glad title), it was ignored. When 95% of the RA population used leaving as a way to avoid RA's randomness to farm glad, A-Net introduced the dishonor system.

You're right saying A-NEt won't give a shit right now.
You're wrong saying A-Net won't give a shit when GvG will be plagued by those bots.
Hence, if you want them to solve the problem, you'll have to make it an enough issue for them to counteract.

Yeah....and we all know how well that worked out.
No one uses it.
Now if the team your in has 2 leechers; you cant even leave without you yourself getting dishonor.
Blah.....I'm so disgusted with this game.

I kinda stopped taking this whole thing seriously about seven pages in. I don't care about all the accusations of botting by individual people or guilds, but being told that I'm bad because a bot repeatedly pleaks my Patient (By a mod, nonetheless) may be the biggest dick thing I have ever been told since the +4 years I've played. I seriously re-read that four times to make sure I was reading what I thought I was. Gwen and Norgu never gave me a TENTH of the problems these interrupt bots are, so that's a really shitty analogy. I guess I'll use the amazing workaround of cancel-casting every single spell I cast repeatedly while the non-bot members of the team pound the shit out of everyone. You sure as hell seemed harder on the players than the bots given everything I read, aside from the token "bots are bad" thing.

On top of that, getting on us for "complaining" about it. Is it really a bad thing to take it out in the public and say "Hey, this bad shit has been going on for a long time, you should do something about it." What's the alternative? They're obviously not going to do jack if we DON'T say anything, so what do we have to lose by bringing this up?

I'm not saying not to say anything, but the whole idea that, "Oh man, if I threaten a company by promising to post something they already know about on a forum that they have no official affiliation with, they'll take care of a problem that's been around for years," is a little...optimistic.

Don't get me wrong, I have no delusions that this going to cause some sudden, gigantic action by Anet, but it's better than doing nothing. If I had a dollar for every time I heard "Gee, if this was such a big deal, why didn't you say something?", I'd be freaking loaded. It's not just this forum, either. I doubt that graphics.dll(which was easily worked around, I should add) used by some of the bots being disabled within a week or so of that thread on QQ being posted was mere coincidence. Similarly, I don't think the impact of the uproar over account security issues lately has been null.

At the very least, it shows that they know about a large problem and don't care to fix it or even bother to acknowledge it. People can do with that information what they will.

So many people in this thread who are blind to the issue at hand. Who cares if the OP is slightly inaccurate and a bot can't get Rank 100 in RBR easily? That may be one of the goals of Borat posting this, but it is hardly the only one, and this is easily a special case where locking a thread for slightly off-topic posting would be detrimental to you guys - the players.

I say "you guys" because a couple months ago I uninstalled Guild Wars. Prior to that, I used some of these bots on an alternate account to see how legit they were. Mind you, the one I was using was not the high quality one some people are hinting at, and it definitely wasn't the one that modded the client to get the weapon sets etc on display in the Party UI.

I can tell you that Martin, Fril, etc completely underestimate how well these bots can play, I was using a subpar one and made a lot of in-game money via earning Balthazar Faction at a very fast rate by completely destroying non-botting teams in various PvP types and making them into Zkeys. There is no "faking" the bot out, at no point does the bot ever have to overwrite what you do. I believe Martin mentioned splitting to destroy a Mesmer bot: the bot was poorly setup/the player was an idiot.

You can still control your character if need be - quite easily, meaning splitting off a properly used bot won't work. You can't fake out the bot by canceling casts as it is quite easy to set it up so it only interrupts at a certain cast point (and set it up so it randomizes this value too). It won't interrupt Half Casts if you tell it not to. A bot is only as good as the person who uses it, this does not mean you should not be outraged by even the mere possibility of people using bots.

Even though I was using a sub par bot, and I mean really sub par, I was destroying people of a MUCH higher skill quality than myself. Even my sub par bot was a thousand times better than the Hero AI so the whole deal of PvP players beating the crappy hero AI so they can beat bots easily too is a load of shit as well.

I won't say that bots are unbeatable, I will say that the only ways of beating a properly used bot are:
a) The person behind the bot sucks at using the bot right.
b) The person behind the bot did not set it up optimally.
c) You energy deny the bot in PvP. If it's a Mesmer, good luck he'll just Power Drain you for all eternity, and running mass energy denial is an exercise in failure at the moment anyways.
d) You're using a bot yourself.

Frankly, I don't know if there is a RBR bot personally. I will say though, that there is a bot for pretty much every other facet of gameplay that I ran into, and making new bots using the scripting that the one bot I used had was REALLY easy, I actually made a test one that just swapped my weapon sets (and hit the cancel key so they swapped faster) so that I could get HCT/HRT on the proper attribute for all of my abilities. There are bots to farm high yield areas, bots to do chest runs, bot to do Drunkard for you, bots to weapon swap shields properly based on element, bots to play certain builds properly (like a Backbreaker Sin back when they were popular), and so on.

The worst part is, and this is the punchline right here: these things have been around for years and have been used almost as much as they are right now. People refuse to believe they work just because the Client Server infrastructure of Guild Wars is very top notch (which is true). However, nothing is flawless, and that includes Guild Wars, and these things have been all around you every day for years now, you probably none-the-wiser. I know I was, anyways, but I know they've existed for that long.

In the end, I see no reason to play this game anymore, and I haven't for awhile now, but that does not mean I don't care for it.

Quite frankly, anyone who asks for a lock on this thread or actually does lock this thread, no matter how bad it gets, is deplorable in my eyes. There are many issues it's perfectly OK to be defeatist about - Fril can tell you I was very defeatist (and still am) about PvP ever getting anything it honestly could use to grow, or balance ever properly being done, one thing you should never be defeatist about is the security of the game.

ArenaNet is slow, yes I'll admit that. However, history will show you that even if they are slow, they get the job done eventually, and that's more than you can say about a lot of other companies. Let's not forget the pretty quick response to duping, or the eventual fix to Ursan Blessing people.

ArenaNet does listen, and you guys are letting the botters win at the moment. Ignore RBR "Top 100" for a second and stop being so RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing narrow minded and look with your own two eyes, there are people botting 99.9% of this game, if you guys don't care, then that's great. I mean, botting is only one step away from people who find ways to actually "hack", get god mode, get guaranteed drops, speed hack, etc.

Maybe you guys will care enough then.

If the disabling of the graphics.dll was an attempt by ANET to combat the bots then it failed miserably, perhaps it stopped a few people that did not have some knowledge of how this worked. However the "how to" guides for the bot program were updated pretty fast. The injector was made widely available too.

On the flip side if the attempt by ANET was indeed done to combat the bots then I have to give them a props for trying to do something (even though it failed miserably)

Still confused why no announcement was released about it. Maybe it was the old "if we told you what we were doing then the botters would know about it also", but this proves how silly that statement is. When the bots no longer worked the bot community set out immediately to determine what was wrong and fix it. And by not saying anything about it they just look like they are doing nothing about it.

+999.
Exactly what I said some posts earlier.
Martin and Co. just assume bots play instead of you, which is wrong.

Bots must be considered as 100% interrupt success rate boosters, which is just insane, whatever ultimate top player you are. I mean, I just heard of bots that some bots auto equip your correct weapon set with escape fastening key when you press the corresponding skill, with the HP/defense set for when you move or don't cast (I never had such a bot in my hands, though).


And when you start keying your interrupts on certains skills, say, a power spike on WoH, a power block on an elementalist/mesmer/necro, or a Pleak on whatever monk spell, things go wrong very very quickly on the other team.

To Katar:
You're misleaded. OP threat will absolutely have no effect on A-net. In fact, he doesn't really believe like ANet will ever answer to him if you read carefully. It is more of a bragging ultimatum.

Plaguing all PvP (as it was not already) with bots will ensure this company a reaction, not just the mere post. But I repeat myself here.

Ok I stop here.

I would finish on one thing: A-Net policy about bot usage ("you will be banned" and all this shit) is just bragging. I have used bots in PvP since more than 1 year now, and I still wait my account to be banned.

Regards;
A former GW player.

No, I agree with you. Minus the last bit - I think Killed is being sincere here.

Like the announcement they made before a double faction weekend, when they announced they were looking for FFF botters & will be banning offenders for 2 weeks

a 2 week ban, man that will sure show the botters who's boss

Does anyone know more about the removal of the Graphics.dll? Specifically was it removed from the client side completely?

The reason I am wondering is if that file was removed and its functions were moved to the server side(or elsewhere on the client/hidden), could ANET then program GW to not start if the graphics.dll is detected on the client in guild wars program folder(or whereever it used to be).

Since the graphics.dll has to be injected for the bot program to work it could be possible to program GW to go back to desktop if the program detects it in an improper place. Just thinking about a possible fix...

If this has a possibility to work what would be the possible workarounds(if any) for it?

An unfortunate side effect of this is that other programs that people may be using that ANET thinks are Ok would be affected also. Small price to pay IMO.

Graphics.dll didn't actually do anything, people just made mods that replaced the .dll with something that did.

From what I've seen, the graphics.dll was disabled. The injection method still works, just with other files besides the graphics.dll.

Been researching the injection methods and how they work and are loaded, it looks to me like ANET has one hell of a issue on its hands.

Prevention seems to be very difficult and there are multiple methods of injection to be dealt with, and new ways being implemented. Detection can also be hard with some of the current injection methods.

In a nutshell, I can no longer bust ANET's balls on trying to fix this. If they can find a way to stop this awesome, but until then I find it hard to ask for something looks very hard to stop considering how this stuff works and how easy microsoft has made it use.

I was looking at something called Detours (from Microsoft Research) which can detect and detour application API's. Maybe something like this can be used by ANET to at least detect the API in use and ban the crap out of them...hopefully not just wishful thinking on my part.

Yep. Seems like this is the main reason why it hasn't been fixed up to this point. Mainly since it was take a complete redesign of how the client transports information back to the servers.

Yay GW2!?

the thing you have to remember is games dont nerf bots, bots nerf games. even if they did anything about it, which they did but it was a joke attempt, somebody would hack around it and another working patch would be up in a matter of days, and anet doesnt have the resources/time/money to keep updating their game like most other games (WoW)

This may also unfortunately ban the users who use the Graphics.dll for the KSmod (Unreal Tournament Sounds mod). Even thought it may not work anymore, people may attempt to use an injection method and get a ban because they wanted to hear "Headshot" again

If they have figured out how to stop this on GW2 it would be awesome.

Sitting here death leveling and playing full tilt poker and wondering if the guys next to me are using this to see everyones cards. Great way to make money if they are.

@Chronos... I hear you, it is unfortunate there is no way to seperate it. Really doubt that this will be fixed before GW2 is out.

_________________________________

Ignorance truly is bliss, I was better off being ignorant on this one...

Personnally I have not cared that people have used bots in guildwars. That is untill recently. After the release of the snowball arena bot on No names the game has gone to the crap.

Normally this would not make me mad but the use of the bot is so apparent and yet anet does nothing to prevent said bots.

Anywho instead of balancing skills(months late) I would much rather have them take care of the bots. I can deal with sins farming a crap load of money. I can deal with the bots in bergan. I can not deal with the bots in pvp. The game is no longer based on skill. But on whos bot has the better timing in the game.

What a joke anet.

First of all, all games have bots. WoW has a ton of bots and other games as well.

I don't care too much about bots. You know there going to show up... why care about it? Stop being a baby about it.

Don't post if you don't know what's going on.

because they are destroying whats left of this game. and if anet wants to keep a player base they really should try to solve some of these issues and stop them from continuing.

Snowball arena bot = utter fail with the at's