Ok, first off, NO TALK ABOUT SHADOW FORM UNLESS IT IS RELEVANT TO THE TOPIC (that means no QQ about the nerf)
Since we all know that the massive PvE nerf bomb is coming (supposedly), what do you think will be the next big PvE build? Any ideas welcome.
For the purpose of this discussion, assume the following skills will be nerfed to oblivion:
-Shadow Form
-Spirit Bond/Protective Spirit (600/smite essentially)
-Obsidian Flesh
-Signet of Spirits
I think if they hit SB or Prot spirit, the new big thing will be Emo/Spell Breaker smite. It makes sense as the EMo can tank literally anything and is only vulnerable to enchantment strips, which will be covered by SB.
New PvE Metagame
Risus
Lusciious
Nerf PS and all 55 / 600 builds won't work .
imo, the way to deal with 600 / smites would be to nerf holy wrath and/or retribution .
I like solo farming / group farming more than farming with a smite bonder .
Me/Mo Spell Breaker + Arcane Echo + some cover enchant .
imo, the way to deal with 600 / smites would be to nerf holy wrath and/or retribution .
I like solo farming / group farming more than farming with a smite bonder .
Me/Mo Spell Breaker + Arcane Echo + some cover enchant .
Elon's Rose
I wouldn't think they'd hit SoS that hard, because if you do you leave Ritualists deep in the hole with no real viable use for spirits - again. Seems stupid to buff them then drop it again, what, 5 months later? What makes spirit spam viable as a farming build is 1) armor of the unfeeling (will likely change the damage reduction to something smaller) and 2) spiritleech aura (who knows how this will be changed)
Similarly, I can't imagine they'll change OF all that much, when moves like stoneflesh and sliver are far more to blame when it comes to excessive farming.
I feel (read: hope) that balanced builds will become more effective in PvE. Essentially I want manly spike without supertanks, really.
Similarly, I can't imagine they'll change OF all that much, when moves like stoneflesh and sliver are far more to blame when it comes to excessive farming.
I feel (read: hope) that balanced builds will become more effective in PvE. Essentially I want manly spike without supertanks, really.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Lusciious
Nerf PS and all 55 / 600 builds won't work .
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I sincerely doubt the PvE meta game will be changed much (if at all). At most SF will be kicked out of speed clears and farms and maybe Hammers will become more popular.
Life Bringing
New tank in most areas will be a stance tank with a bonder+Spellbreaker. Not sure about doa. UW will probably feature like 4 copies of SY!
Introverted Dimensions
I really hope they don't nerf SoS lol. It's one of my favorite builds and I rarely use it for farming purposes.
Axel Zinfandel
Besides Shadow Form, none of those skills were even mentioned, I don't think.
Shayne Hawke
Oh, wait, we're assuming all of the above is nerfed and unusable. Um... Defy Pain tankers?
Gennadios
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Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
Besides Shadow Form, none of those skills were even mentioned, I don't think.
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Don't feel like drudging for links, they're somewhere in the dev tracker board.
Strafe
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Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
Besides Shadow Form, none of those skills were even mentioned, I don't think.
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http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:..._December_2009
Introverted Dimensions
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| * Tactics – Tactics is the least exciting Warrior attribute and primarily sees use as a secondary attribute on other classes. We’re considering several options to address the weaknesses of Tactics. |
Xenex Xclame
I think it would be very stupid of them to nerf SoS, Spirit Spamming is the only reason to play rit in pve,if they nerf it and give rits nothing at all, we will be back to rits being useless and never seen.Even so,they should not even think about nerfing it yet, SoS hasnt even been around that long.
I dont think they will hit OF that hard,people say that after they nerf SF people will just jump over to OF,but OF takes a lot more to be effective,it takes you 3 skills just to get it in the same area of SF invulenerablity.
OF makes you move 50% slower so you need to take Windborne speed and/or Storm Djinn's Haste (might as well take it since its in the same line as glyph of swiftness) and you have to take minbender and/or illusion of haste because your secondary is gonna be locked as mesmer since you need mantra of resolve for the interrupts
So thats OF -50% movement speed,Mantra of Resolve,30+ increase movement speed,20+increase movement speed,thats 3 extra skills jus to get the same effect as SF and thats not even counting the energy that you will need
I dont think they will hit OF that hard,people say that after they nerf SF people will just jump over to OF,but OF takes a lot more to be effective,it takes you 3 skills just to get it in the same area of SF invulenerablity.
OF makes you move 50% slower so you need to take Windborne speed and/or Storm Djinn's Haste (might as well take it since its in the same line as glyph of swiftness) and you have to take minbender and/or illusion of haste because your secondary is gonna be locked as mesmer since you need mantra of resolve for the interrupts
So thats OF -50% movement speed,Mantra of Resolve,30+ increase movement speed,20+increase movement speed,thats 3 extra skills jus to get the same effect as SF and thats not even counting the energy that you will need
Schnellburg
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Originally Posted by Life Bringing
New tank in most areas will be a stance tank with a bonder+Spellbreaker. Not sure about doa. UW will probably feature like 4 copies of SY!
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As for OF, you can pop a RRC and cupcake/BRC and be moving normal speed again, Math FTW. Guild groups already doing DoA with OF tanks now in 1:30 so it isn't all that much slower then SF tanks.
And why does everyone think PS and Spirit Bond will get the nerf bat? What about Spellbreaker? How about they make it so you can't cast it on yourself, and it won't as much nerf the skill, but make it more of a pain in the butt to use. You would have to bring an extra hero along just to use it on yourself. That would in theory change quite a bit of runs, and likely slow them down.
pumpkin pie
why would we want to tell them what to nerf 
FyrFytr998
I'm agreeing with the thinking that SoS should be relatively safe. The main thing they're focusing on besides invulnerability, is the speed of the builds itself. SoS spamming as a solo farm build is a little more time intensive. I'm sure once the update comes we'll see some sort of SoS team other than Dual Spammers born from it. Then they will reconsider Spirit Spamming taking into consideration what kind of times people are putting up if they're too fast.
Xenex Xclame
The thing is when a group of SoS get created,that the problem wont be SoS,you can only have one of it active at a time anyways,I guess you could split up at the start of UW and each take one part or even dou-ing one part with 4 groups each a part,but even if you do manage to clear it withouth having to ask for help from one of the other teams,when you reach the end, you cant kill dhuum with 8 people all with the same 2 builds.
You could also just go with 8 spirits spammers all with different spirits, but then again SoS build already has most of the good ones.
Now besides UW SoS has a much bigger limit on what it can take on, any big groups will kill your spirits sooner then your spirits can kill the group and just one mistake and you become the target and die, not to mention there are some mobs out there that after they killed all your spirits will go for you even when you are pretty far from the battle.
You could also just go with 8 spirits spammers all with different spirits, but then again SoS build already has most of the good ones.
Now besides UW SoS has a much bigger limit on what it can take on, any big groups will kill your spirits sooner then your spirits can kill the group and just one mistake and you become the target and die, not to mention there are some mobs out there that after they killed all your spirits will go for you even when you are pretty far from the battle.
Lusciious
SoS can be used equally well on almost any profession . my warrior has no problems using SoS build .
Spirits themselves are already limited since you cant have 2 copies of the same spirit .
SoS is just a little OP imo . just deal with the "SoS being able to be used on any profession" problem and it's good
move it to spawning attribute so only rits can use them ? lol
Spirits themselves are already limited since you cant have 2 copies of the same spirit .
SoS is just a little OP imo . just deal with the "SoS being able to be used on any profession" problem and it's good
move it to spawning attribute so only rits can use them ? lol
Xenex Xclame
No No No,that would be a rit nerf too.
I personally dont mind everyone being able to use SoS,your still limited to one anyways.
I personally dont mind everyone being able to use SoS,your still limited to one anyways.
Verene
They say they're looking at 600/Smite teams, but that really makes me wonder exactly what they can possibly do to nerf that without completely screwing over everything else. It's not like SF, which is only used for perma. Rather, key skills to make it work (Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond) are also used constantly in general PvE, and are all but necessary, and if there are any changes made to those skills it has to be approached very carefully, else they risk screwing over anyone who's just doing regular PvE play. I can't even imagine trying to do HM without PS as it stands now.
And I don't think they'll do anything with SoS. Yeah, it's a powerful skill, but it's not all-powerful, and it's used for more than just farming. It's great, but it's not perfect, and it has its weaknesses (spirits are still fairly weak in the amount of damage they can take and they can easily be overwhelmed if you're not careful, mobs will still ignore them and attack you, etc). Not to mention that it's pretty much the only reason Rits see play now, and you can only have one copy up at a time.
And I don't think they'll do anything with SoS. Yeah, it's a powerful skill, but it's not all-powerful, and it's used for more than just farming. It's great, but it's not perfect, and it has its weaknesses (spirits are still fairly weak in the amount of damage they can take and they can easily be overwhelmed if you're not careful, mobs will still ignore them and attack you, etc). Not to mention that it's pretty much the only reason Rits see play now, and you can only have one copy up at a time.
SomeSayImFamous
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Originally Posted by Risus
Ok, first off, NO TALK ABOUT SHADOW FORM UNLESS IT IS RELEVANT TO THE TOPIC (that means no QQ about the nerf)
Since we all know that the massive PvE nerf bomb is coming (supposedly), what do you think will be the next big PvE build? Any ideas welcome. For the purpose of this discussion, assume the following skills will be nerfed to oblivion: -Shadow Form -Spirit Bond/Protective Spirit (600/smite essentially) -Obsidian Flesh -Signet of Spirits I think if they hit SB or Prot spirit, the new big thing will be Emo/Spell Breaker smite. It makes sense as the EMo can tank literally anything and is only vulnerable to enchantment strips, which will be covered by SB. |
Actually Your Quite Wrong About SB AND PS. They wont nerf those skills as there needed in heavy areas of pve as hm they will nerd the smite part of 600/smite before they mess up sb or ps.
Darth The Xx
PvE has a meta? Really? You can run basically anything that vaguely represents a cogent build and still get through relatively easily.
More seriously I doubt they'll touch SoS, you can only have 1 in a group at a time. they'll prolly 25/90/5 the smite skills in 600/smite if I know anything about Anet balancing smite skills ..... You can also expect SF to be effectively useless, or still godly after the skill update.
Speculating what the next big thing will be is also pointless, a lot of that depends on firstly a) what is nerfed and b) what is buffed.
More seriously I doubt they'll touch SoS, you can only have 1 in a group at a time. they'll prolly 25/90/5 the smite skills in 600/smite if I know anything about Anet balancing smite skills ..... You can also expect SF to be effectively useless, or still godly after the skill update.
Speculating what the next big thing will be is also pointless, a lot of that depends on firstly a) what is nerfed and b) what is buffed.
Axel Zinfandel
My point was, yes, they mentioned Shadow Form, but I don't believe they mentioned any of those other listed skills.
And yes, they mentioned 600/smite, but since when is everyone assuming they'll nerf those specific skills? And OF? SoS? Please show me where these were stated. :/
And yes, they mentioned 600/smite, but since when is everyone assuming they'll nerf those specific skills? And OF? SoS? Please show me where these were stated. :/
Reformed
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Originally Posted by Verene
but that really makes me wonder exactly what they can possibly do to nerf that without completely screwing over everything else.
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Why worry about the meta shift before the nerfs even hit OP? The same thing that usually happens will happen again. Creative people will evaluate the remaining options and pick the most practical one to build around. Some farms die and others spring up, everything is relative. There will probably be new setups in the works hours after the update if not before due to the alleged pvx leaks.
FyrFytr998
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Originally Posted by Reformed
Retribution and Holy Wrath.
Why worry about the meta shift before the nerfs even hit OP? The same thing that usually happens will happen again. Creative people will evaluate the remaining options and pick the most practical one to build around. Some farms die and others spring up, everything is relative. There will probably be new setups in the works hours after the update if not before due to the alleged pvx leaks. |
When I mentioned about some new type of SoS team coming up. I meant it in the vein of just ecto farming. I knew that the one spirit type rule would kill any kind of Speed Clears with multiple Spammers. Ultimately, people will still want a way to get the globs though.
Copenhagen Master
I would say something with Vow of Silence (maybe)
reaper with no name
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Originally Posted by Lusciious
SoS can be used equally well on almost any profession . my warrior has no problems using SoS build .
Spirits themselves are already limited since you cant have 2 copies of the same spirit . SoS is just a little OP imo . just deal with the "SoS being able to be used on any profession" problem and it's good move it to spawning attribute so only rits can use them ? lol |
However, I actually wouldn't mind seeing it moved to SP.
All that said, in a feeble attempt to get this topic on topic, if the requirements of the OP are met, Warriors will likely become the primary PUG tanks.
Chthon
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Originally Posted by Risus
For the purpose of this discussion, assume the following skills will be nerfed to oblivion:
-Shadow Form |
Farming has no "meta," so I'm not going to discuss it.
People who are currently successful at speed clears will move to balanced clears (excellent builds already exist) because the value of UW/FoW endchests will rise enough to make it worthwhile.
Otherwise it's a non-event.
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| -Spirit Bond/Protective Spirit (600/smite essentially) |
If PS is nerfed, Prot Bond E/Mo will increase in popularity for players. And probably Shelter for heroes.
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| -Obsidian Flesh |
If it was nerfed, it has very, very little non-farming application, so it matters very little. The only notice I'd pay it is that there'd be one less way to do Four Horsemen.
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| -Signet of Spirits |
If it is, offensive spirit rits will go back to being garbage. That's not exactly a "new" meta...
Again, my biggest concern would be losing another option for getting past Four Horsemen.[/QUOTE]
Trip555
Four Horseman, Foundry of Fail, Gloom and so on require heavier tanking than Defy Pain/Endure Pain.
If they nerf the ultra slow (and therefore not used in Speedclears) Obbytank, I will reconsider getting GW 2.
Because Obbytank is the new meta in high end areas, unless they introduce something else.
If they nerf the ultra slow (and therefore not used in Speedclears) Obbytank, I will reconsider getting GW 2.
Because Obbytank is the new meta in high end areas, unless they introduce something else.
Arduin
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Originally Posted by Teenage Lobodomy
I'm actually really looking forward to that lol.
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Gogo tanking stance warriors, just like in the geartrick days!
afya
SF nerf for sure
600, hope not complete dead, but they shouldnt change SB/PS/SoA, my guess would be smites end on 0 en.
obsi flesh, i doubt they'll nerf the OBtank, as they r needed in some balance team
SoS, not very OP, ill expect several months like CoP to be nerfed.
600, hope not complete dead, but they shouldnt change SB/PS/SoA, my guess would be smites end on 0 en.
obsi flesh, i doubt they'll nerf the OBtank, as they r needed in some balance team
SoS, not very OP, ill expect several months like CoP to be nerfed.
Life Bringing
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Originally Posted by Schnellburg
You realize SY! doesn't stack with another SY! right?
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Mouse at Large
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Originally Posted by Risus
It makes sense as the EMo can tank literally anything and is only vulnerable to enchantment strips, which will be covered by SB.
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There's a good reason why A/E SF is causing controversy not E/Mo OF builds
Olle
You people are all missing out on the current PewPew-anything build:
Discord
it is, imo, the current meta in PvE GW...
eva tryed 7 Discorders (one human) with One A/E AP caller?
its liek, not funny
Discord
it is, imo, the current meta in PvE GW...
eva tryed 7 Discorders (one human) with One A/E AP caller?
its liek, not funny
Xenex Xclame
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Originally Posted by kajusbonus
eva tryed 7 Discorders (one human) with One A/E AP caller?
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I bolded the important part.
Aurelio
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Originally Posted by Risus
Since we all know that the massive PvE nerf bomb is coming (supposedly), what do you think will be the next big PvE build? Any ideas welcome.
For the purpose of this discussion, assume the following skills will be nerfed to oblivion: -Shadow Form -Spirit Bond/Protective Spirit (600/smite essentially) -Obsidian Flesh -Signet of Spirits |
They will get tired quickly and they will leave the game waiting for gw2.
Most people will just farm what they can to earn their last titles and that's the end of pve.
Shadowhaze
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Originally Posted by Chrisworld
They'll nerf it because I use it.
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MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by reaper with no name
I disagree. SoS is far, far better on rits than on other professions. With each rank, the damage/health/armor increase is for each spirit.
However, I actually wouldn't mind seeing it moved to SP. All that said, in a feeble attempt to get this topic on topic, if the requirements of the OP are met, Warriors will likely become the primary PUG tanks. |
@ OP - If PS is nerfed, then HM will destroy teams. Which might be a welcome change.
I will agree that E/Mo may become fashionable.
Cuilan
Mark of Pain groups become the norm.
Melee with SY replace the need for paragons.
Monks are made fun of and are kicked/laughed out of groups.
Mesmers will experience more nerfs.
If people enjoy Guild Wars, I don't see how these nerfs will stop players from doing dungeons.
Melee with SY replace the need for paragons.
Monks are made fun of and are kicked/laughed out of groups.
Mesmers will experience more nerfs.
If people enjoy Guild Wars, I don't see how these nerfs will stop players from doing dungeons.
Kenzo Skunk
Nerf SoS? Why? That build has very strong DPS, true, but is far from "godmode" Shadow Form, or to some extent 600/smite. I`ve noticed that i die very easily from two aatxe swings, so..
Fay Vert
I think it's safe to say Cons will become even more important