Rollerbeetle Racing Top Score Analysis
Ewon
It's pretty clear that they don;t much care for GW 1 anymore. Too bad GW 1 is the game I like/play...
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Ewon
I gotta say though, even though I get pissed about it, can we really get mad at the people just racing to the end? I mean, that is what this game is for.
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Ewon
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
You can race to the end without screwing up other people's records. It's not in your interest if you're on the highscore list and are trying to protect your own score, but it's also a great way to not piss off other racers on the highscore list, many of which are plenty decent at just racing for first place. Those are the kinds of racers that you don't want to be making angry if you want your own shot at a highscore, or even to finish races with any consistency.
The reward is the reason that the race is about getting the fastest time and directly influences the behavior of racers in the arena. It's not like people were doing for this for fun and for finishing first, and then ANet decided to start rewarding the fastest racers. The reward has always been around, and it has always been a goal for some to put out the fastest times they can in order to get this reward. |
You can't tell me the entire reason of Rollerbeetle racing, for every player, is to get the mini. Yes, I agree that I would rather race to the end with people who just want the fastest time, and that would be great, but the kd skills are there. I would say the general guildwars player base is just rollerbeetle racing for the game itself, and that means playing the game for what it is. Not what the top100 highs core seekers say it should be. I'm not saying everyone should be kding each other and doing anything to get first place. I would much rather just go for high scores and I refuse to use my kd skills (other than ram, but I don;t mean to hit with it), but that was not the entent of the game. Kd skills would not have been added if that was the case.
Hobbs
Winning gives me the most Gamer points, KDing others increases my chance of winning, so I KD other racers. I'm looking for Gamer points not a high score so KDing makes perfect sense to me.
Killed u man
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Originally Posted by Hobbs
Winning gives me the most Gamer points, KDing others increases my chance of winning, so I KD other racers. I'm looking for Gamer points not a high score so KDing makes perfect sense to me.
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They should've split up RBR in 2 different categories then, one for speed racers (maybe even without KD's and invidiual maps) and one for group racers.
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
They should've split up RBR in 2 different categories then, one for speed racers (maybe even without KD's and invidiual maps) and one for group racers.
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Artisan Archer
I must admit the competition is pretty fierce this year, is there any kind of proof for those bots or is it just people yelling 'bot' on a forum?
Ewon
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Originally Posted by Artisan Archer
I must admit the competition is pretty fierce this year, is there any kind of proof for those bots or is it just people yelling 'bot' on a forum?
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Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Ewon
We are saying the syncers are the problem, not crying bot
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novawhiz
Yes there are plenty of botters out there. It is incredibly easy to bot, its a uniform track with enter mission button.
Obviously, the bot isnt nearly as good as a human and has no AI or reactionary response to the other players, but when you have 3-5+ accounts running 24/7 for the event its pretty easy to get at least 1 spot on the top 100 list.
Just think how many runs that is over the course of the event for just 1 account. Then imagine people with well over 5 accounts. Thats a lot of runs with echo+beetle, or even just super beetle every single crate.
And anyone who wanted to make a bot for it has had what, like 7 events now to 100% perfect the bot?
And of course anet wont/cant do anything about them like, so it just continues.
Obviously, the bot isnt nearly as good as a human and has no AI or reactionary response to the other players, but when you have 3-5+ accounts running 24/7 for the event its pretty easy to get at least 1 spot on the top 100 list.
Just think how many runs that is over the course of the event for just 1 account. Then imagine people with well over 5 accounts. Thats a lot of runs with echo+beetle, or even just super beetle every single crate.
And anyone who wanted to make a bot for it has had what, like 7 events now to 100% perfect the bot?
And of course anet wont/cant do anything about them like, so it just continues.
Artisan Archer
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Originally Posted by novawhiz
Yes there are plenty of botters out there. It is incredibly easy to bot, its a uniform track with enter mission button.
Obviously, the bot isnt nearly as good as a human and has no AI or reactionary response to the other players, but when you have 3-5+ accounts running 24/7 for the event its pretty easy to get at least 1 spot on the top 100 list. Just think how many runs that is over the course of the event for just 1 account. Then imagine people with well over 5 accounts. Thats a lot of runs with echo+beetle, or even just super beetle every single crate. And anyone who wanted to make a bot for it has had what, like 7 events now to 100% perfect the bot? And of course anet wont/cant do anything about them like, so it just continues. |
Killed u man
Posting any proof of bots is strictly prohobitited by guru rules. But a quick trip to google takes you to the most commonly known botting development website there is.
It's not even bots that play for you that's the problem, it's all the other stuff you can by modyfying your client:
You can increase your sync with the server through various methods (too complicated to explain), you can keep track of who used what skill, you can cut corners perfectly and so much more.
All that stuff that you claim makes you a good RBR is the stuff that's botable.
Why? Because RBR is not hard, it's just knowing when to use what skill, and since the map is static, it's always at the same time. As explained in my original post: RBR is one of the easiest formats in Guild Wars: once you know where to use your skills, you can get a 485K time.
Heck, I've gotten a 483K time myself with a shitty start using the youtube video as a guideline.
So then my point still is: Why is it always the same people in top 100 if RBR is so easy? Obvious anwser: ... (Pssst, it's called cheating be it through syncing, exploiting, hacking or whatever)
And as a reward, Anet gives not 1 mini rollerbeetle, but 1 mini rollerbeetle per acount these cheaters can get into top 100.
It's not even bots that play for you that's the problem, it's all the other stuff you can by modyfying your client:
You can increase your sync with the server through various methods (too complicated to explain), you can keep track of who used what skill, you can cut corners perfectly and so much more.
All that stuff that you claim makes you a good RBR is the stuff that's botable.
Why? Because RBR is not hard, it's just knowing when to use what skill, and since the map is static, it's always at the same time. As explained in my original post: RBR is one of the easiest formats in Guild Wars: once you know where to use your skills, you can get a 485K time.
Heck, I've gotten a 483K time myself with a shitty start using the youtube video as a guideline.
So then my point still is: Why is it always the same people in top 100 if RBR is so easy? Obvious anwser: ... (Pssst, it's called cheating be it through syncing, exploiting, hacking or whatever)
And as a reward, Anet gives not 1 mini rollerbeetle, but 1 mini rollerbeetle per acount these cheaters can get into top 100.
Artisan Archer
Syncing isn't technically cheating and I don't know what you mean by exploiting/hacking. I haven't seen a single script/program that does anything RBR related.
Because people are better than `me at something doesn't make me automatically assume they cheat. Sometimes they just are.
Because people are better than `me at something doesn't make me automatically assume they cheat. Sometimes they just are.
Scheda
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Heck, I've gotten a 483K time myself with a shitty start using the youtube video as a guideline.
So then my point still is: Why is it always the same people in top 100 if RBR is so easy? |
It's quite rough though. It looks like there are about 5 entries with over 481k added to the list every hour. I remember the first event when the #1 time was what? 479k? He would have been easily shoved off by now.
Killed u man
There's no such thing as better, I've explained why in the past 10 posts. I've also explained what these hacks and exploits are, and 2 minutes google will get you to them. (or atleast the bot)
Seems to me you're not ever bothering to read any post, but I don't gues I don't need to point out why you, Shayne or other "pro 100" posters here are the only ones defending it.
Imagine if every non champ range guild called every champ range guild cheaters. Yet that doesn't happen, why? Because people know and feel that getting crange doesn't require you to cheat.
Yet people are calling out top 100 RBR (the only people that are defending top 100 RBR's are the ones who are in it
) because, partially through my efforts of raising general awareness, people are aware of the cheating going on.
I, and most people, can accept we'll never have a gold cape for whatever reason. Most people, however, won't accept (alteast not the ones who RBR) the fact that they won't get a mini greased lightning because there's other people cheating theirs.
Seems to me you're not ever bothering to read any post, but I don't gues I don't need to point out why you, Shayne or other "pro 100" posters here are the only ones defending it.
Imagine if every non champ range guild called every champ range guild cheaters. Yet that doesn't happen, why? Because people know and feel that getting crange doesn't require you to cheat.
Yet people are calling out top 100 RBR (the only people that are defending top 100 RBR's are the ones who are in it
) because, partially through my efforts of raising general awareness, people are aware of the cheating going on.I, and most people, can accept we'll never have a gold cape for whatever reason. Most people, however, won't accept (alteast not the ones who RBR) the fact that they won't get a mini greased lightning because there's other people cheating theirs.
Scheda
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Most people, however, won't accept (alteast not the ones who RBR) the fact that they won't get a mini greased lightning because there's other people cheating theirs.
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Artisan Archer
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
There's no such thing as better, I've explained why in the past 10 posts. I've also explained what these hacks and exploits are, and 2 minutes google will get you to them. (or atleast the bot)
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Seems to me you're not ever bothering to read any post, but I don't gues I don't need to point out why you, Shayne or other "pro 100" posters here are the only ones defending it.
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Imagine if every non champ range guild called every champ range guild cheaters. Yet that doesn't happen, why? Because people know and feel that getting crange doesn't require you to cheat.
Yet people are calling out top 100 RBR (the only people that are defending top 100 RBR's are the ones who are in it ) because, partially through my efforts of raising general awareness, people are aware of the cheating going on. |
As far as I can see the only people calling out the top 100 RBR are the people not it. Why? Because if you're in it you KNOW it's not impossible to do without cheating, or even do it 7 times on different accounts, given you have enough friends/time dedicated to it. I don't know why it's so hard to believe for you.
Yeah it sucks people are gonna get 10 beetles cause they have 10 accounts in the top 100. But what do I care, I only want one, so I just go for one time that's good enough and be done with it. All I hear from you is; aaah it's too hard cause the other kids are taking up all the spaces in the top 100! So why not just be better than them and plant a score above them?
If you wanne keep telling yourself it's everyone else's fault except for your lack of skill/determination, then yeah, you never will win one.
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
I, and most people, can accept we'll never have a gold cape for whatever reason. Most people, however, won't accept (alteast not the ones who RBR) the fact that they won't get a mini greased lightning because there's other people cheating theirs.
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Ewon
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Originally Posted by Artisan Archer
Yeah it sucks people are gonna get 10 beetles cause they have 10 accounts in the top 100. But what do I care, I only want one, so I just go for one time that's good enough and be done with it. All I hear from you is; aaah it's too hard cause the other kids are taking up all the spaces in the top 100! So why not just be better than them and plant a score above them?
If you wanne keep telling yourself it's everyone else's fault except for your lack of skill/determination, then yeah, you never will win one. |
Edit: He is getting 7 this year now
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Ewon
So lets look at 1 example of a person on the top 100, Ewok. He ended up getting 17 beetles last year, and last time I checked, he will be getting at least another 5 this year. Are you telling us this is fine, he has skill and can get this many beetles? You don't see anything wrong with this at all?
Edit: He is getting 7 this year now |
Until ANet gets pushed to take a stance and ban people who take up multiple positions on the leaderboard, it's going to be "fair" play. Taking up a stance on this however might mean that they'd have to take a stance against other uses of multiple accounts (farming titles for one account by using another, Nicholas gifts on multiple accounts, using smurf accounts in GvG/tourney matches, etc). You know they can't police that; they don't have the infrastructure in place to monitor how many accounts one person is holding exactly, and it wouldn't be worth their time to do it anyways.
So the only thing you can do if you want to get on the leaderboard is to quit whining and improve.
I mean, if the map and skills really are that static, how are you not on the leaderboard yet? Oops, 'cuz ur bad.
Ewon
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
Multi-accounting isn't "fair" to me, but to use that as an excuse for saying that you can't win a beetle is poor. Unless you can pull 483k+ consistently with the combo, you have room to improve.
Until ANet gets pushed to take a stance and ban people who take up multiple positions on the leaderboard, it's going to be "fair" play. Taking up a stance on this however might mean that they'd have to take a stance against other uses of multiple accounts (farming titles for one account by using another, Nicholas gifts on multiple accounts, using smurf accounts in GvG/tourney matches, etc). You know they can't police that; they don't have the infrastructure in place to monitor how many accounts one person is holding exactly, and it wouldn't be worth their time to do it anyways. So the only thing you can do if you want to get on the leaderboard is to quit whining and improve. I mean, if the map and skills really are that static, how are you not on the leaderboard yet? Oops, 'cuz ur bad. |
btw, i never said I couldn't get a high score/wasn't on the high score board. Just because I can get my 1 beetle doesn't mean i don;t think it's wrong that 1 person will be getting 10+ more this year.
shadows of hob
Dudes, the bot problem has been known for years now and ANET won't do anything against it. So the botters keep botting and enjoy their free mini's.
I do really, really enjoy the obvious botters in this thread that are defending botting or saying 'it is pure skill that i am going to win 10+ mini's'. How much IQ do you think the people on this forum have?
I do really, really enjoy the obvious botters in this thread that are defending botting or saying 'it is pure skill that i am going to win 10+ mini's'. How much IQ do you think the people on this forum have?
Ewon
wow, gotta say there are some really nasty players in rbr now. I finally got a good run going with 2 supers. the run was going well though there was another guy who has a super behind me. at the end he wait at the circle bridge and kded me right at the end. I asked why he would bother doing that and he laughed at me and called me a noob.
The players in this game amaze me at times...
The players in this game amaze me at times...
Killed u man
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Originally Posted by Ewon
wow, gotta say there are some really nasty players in rbr now. I finally got a good run going with 2 supers. the run was going well though there was another guy who has a super behind me. at the end he wait at the circle bridge and kded me right at the end. I asked why he would bother doing that and he laughed at me and called me a noob.
The players in this game amaze me at times... |
I'm convinced the top 100 would look completely different if you couldn't block/KD other runners, and syncing wasn't allowed...
novawhiz
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Originally Posted by Artisan Archer
Any proof maybe?
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Im thinking (hoping) you realize that there are bots out there for GW. Have been for years. What makes you think a person can make a bot to farm snowball dominance but not rollerbeetle race?
And if you are so very interested you can google to your hearts content and find out what all the cheats out there are doing
Hobbs
It's a race, not a time trial. The people screwing you guys up are attempting to get first place. i.e. win the race. This is not behaviour to be criticised, mocked enraged by, it is the normal way of playing the game, why you think everyone else should subscribe to your niche way of playing RBR is beyond me.
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Hobbs
It's a race, not a time trial. The people screwing you guys up are attempting to get first place. i.e. win the race. This is not behaviour to be criticised, mocked enraged by, it is the normal way of playing the game, why you think everyone else should subscribe to your niche way of playing RBR is beyond me.
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BAsically that's the same problem than in RA . People got to deal with random players whereas syncers are getting 20+ consec every run.
Multi accounts can't be banned. Guys on ladder just aren't smart to be called all same name , but let's assume Ewok Guy got his accs called " josh the barbarian " , " lea der monk " and whatever , how would you know it's him ??? That's an other point , there are much more sec accs in actual ladder but many just don't know because the name is changed....
But , let's be honest... Main problem comes from the 500e reward too....Maybe it would have been smarter to make the miniature customized to x player. Overall , getting a rare miniature for yourself is already a good reward...
lemming
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
Multi accounts can't be banned. Guys on ladder just aren't smart to be called all same name , but let's assume Ewok Guy got his accs called " josh the barbarian " , " lea der monk " and whatever , how would you know it's him ???
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
But , let's be honest... Main problem comes from the 500e reward too....Maybe it would have been smarter to make the miniature customized to x player. Overall , getting a rare miniature for yourself is already a good reward...
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Artisan Archer
Also, they need to fix the range of Rollerbeetle Lunge, cause it's bugged and if you target someone before he goes out of radar range and use the skill, it will still affect him, making it's range practically infinite. People seem to be abusing this to mess up top 100 attempts.
syronj
I realized something about the races and updated the GW Wiki. The announcer Spikesan is probably based on the 1940s bandleader/comedian Spike Jones. Years ago, I heard one of his musical parodies on an LP with him as the track announcer; the winning horse was Beetlebomb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Jones
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Jones
Missing HB
Btw , i noticed the ladder isn't the same in american and japan districts. So , easy question : who wins the pet at the end ??
The Baphomet
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Originally Posted by Hobbs
It's a race, not a time trial. The people screwing you guys up are attempting to get first place. i.e. win the race. This is not behaviour to be criticised, mocked enraged by, it is the normal way of playing the game, why you think everyone else should subscribe to your niche way of playing RBR is beyond me.
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shodannet
As far as I can tell, many people are out for short-term personal wins rather than the long-term win. By that, I mean instead of focusing on preventing anyone from gaining a significant lead (in first place) and keeping the race tight and the lead position always changing, they all focus on targetting the person behind them. Whilst this is the only strategy for someone in first place, it's an ultimately pointless strategy if youre in second place because first place is left to just to boost his way to the finish unharassed.
I've been in races where I'm last and been watching the 3 people in front of me fight amongst themselves as second and first cruised off the radar unharassed (and even worse, only first and second got to finish). It makes me just go "WTFs the point?? "Yay I came third!
"?? Get first and second!!"
I like races where it comes down to the hilly stretch at checkpoint 6 (after the beach) and I have to fight it out with several other racers. It's even better when it comes to checkpoint 7 and see if you can get the edge on everyone else in speed as you race down the stairs. Sure I like the races where I've SRBed 3 times in a row to a clear lead, but its not so fun for everyone else (and Im more likely to rubberband when I'm in the lead for some reason :S)
I've been in races where I'm last and been watching the 3 people in front of me fight amongst themselves as second and first cruised off the radar unharassed (and even worse, only first and second got to finish). It makes me just go "WTFs the point?? "Yay I came third!
I like races where it comes down to the hilly stretch at checkpoint 6 (after the beach) and I have to fight it out with several other racers. It's even better when it comes to checkpoint 7 and see if you can get the edge on everyone else in speed as you race down the stairs. Sure I like the races where I've SRBed 3 times in a row to a clear lead, but its not so fun for everyone else (and Im more likely to rubberband when I'm in the lead for some reason :S)
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by shodannet
I like races where it comes down to the hilly stretch at checkpoint 6 (after the beach) and I have to fight it out with several other racers. It's even better when it comes to checkpoint 7 and see if you can get the edge on everyone else in speed as you race down the stairs.
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- Nobody in the game is good enough to race ahead of everyone else.
- Most players in the arena carry a "KD whenever I can" or "always KD first place" mentality.
Hobbs
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Originally Posted by The Baphomet
If they want to win, they shouldn't stop me from record setting, because they will lose 20 seconds from my KD harass. I have actually managed to body block some people for the entire duration of the game.
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The Baphomet
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Originally Posted by Hobbs
So because people are playing the game in the "correct" way, i.e. racing, you're griefing them? How mature.
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Edit because I was on countdown for rbr: Also insulting maturity over my decision to play for record rather than title.
lollin
Hobbs
It's called Rollerbeetle Racing non? It's a race. And the maturity comment is nothing to do with your intention to go for the record over the title, or just playing for fun. People do play RBR for reasons other than the record and the title, believe it or not. Griefing for any reason is immature, but KDing the leader, a potential record holder, isn't griefing it's just trying to win which in the end is the objective of a race.
If someone bodyblocks/harrasses you right out of the gate, that's a nasty move but doing the same to the leader? That's all part of a race.
If someone bodyblocks/harrasses you right out of the gate, that's a nasty move but doing the same to the leader? That's all part of a race.
The Baphomet
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Originally Posted by Hobbs
It's called Rollerbeetle Racing non? It's a race. And the maturity comment is nothing to do with your intention to go for the record over the title, or just playing for fun. People do play RBR for reasons other than the record and the title, believe it or not. Griefing for any reason is immature, but KDing the leader, a potential record holder, isn't griefing it's just trying to win which in the end is the objective of a race.
If someone bodyblocks/harrasses you right out of the gate, that's a nasty move but doing the same to the leader? That's all part of a race. |
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Hobbs
Griefing for any reason is immature, but KDing the leader, a potential record holder, isn't griefing it's just trying to win which in the end is the objective of a race.
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Hobbs
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Originally Posted by The Baphomet
It furthers my angle to punish people for preventing my from my goals, believe it or not. I am aiming for all of nothing in this "race" and this type of play is going to be rewarded by Anet. Maturity isn't an issue.
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
If you KD the frontrunner and that doesn't result in you finishing before they do, you are not improving your winnings, and you may as well be griefing. This is the case more often than not, I feel.
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The Baphomet
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Originally Posted by Hobbs
You don't gain anything from bodyblocking them. It makes your goal impossible that race and doesn't make it any more likely in subsequent races.
This is a fair point which I have no problem with, using KDs to remain competitive and give yourself a shot at a higher placing is fine. Using KDs to screw up other players with no benefit to yourself is griefing, incidentally, this is exactly what Baphomet described above, hindering others with no benefit to yourself. |
Ramming at the start and what Shayne was referring to is what I get angry about.