Mesmer Speculation - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

09 Apr 2010 at 20:01 - 1

So the beans have been spilt. Mesmers are finally going to get some attention in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Don't worry, folks.

Live Team is working on a play balance update. As before, we will give you all a preview before the changes are in the game.

We plan to have this preview ready for you to check out relatively soon (TM)--i.e. in the next week or two. But just to give you a small teaser, we're working on some changes to Mesmers in PvE. So stay tuned.

Maybe making fast casting somewhat useful? More premptive interrupts maybe? Reworking on recharges and casting costs? Who knows..I for one am very excited!

End

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Rubbing Potassium on water fountains.

LF guild that teaches MTSC (did it long ago before gw2 came out and I quit...but I barely remember)

N/A

09 Apr 2010 at 20:03 - 2

removing them completely because they were unable/to lazy to fix them?

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

09 Apr 2010 at 20:07 - 3

No positive adjectives means more nerfs.

DRGN

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

In Memorium [iBot]

Mo/A

09 Apr 2010 at 20:13 - 4

It might be a PvE only change to Fast Casting(though I don't see that as likely or if even possible without major headaches). Whatever it is, they need to make sure it doesn't wind up like CoP/EN where people realize an X/Me can do it as good or better as a Me/X. I say all this as someone who has a PvE version of everything but a Mesmer.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

09 Apr 2010 at 20:20 - 5

We aren't going to see pve-only attribute effects. At best they will buff some primary att skill to insanity, and there are a bunch of very useless FC skills that could be reworked.

Looking at the derv/para buffs though, I will bet we will see mesmer buffs that continue to play better on necro/ele/whatever primary. Fevered dreams is already a fine build, its just a million times better on a necro.

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

09 Apr 2010 at 20:41 - 6

Makeing e-denial painful in PVE?????????????????????????????????????
rather then waist your time

A little party wide foe hexing would go a long way too

Fast casting should get looked at... I can do it faster can take you so far.

Master Mxyzptlk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Obey My Command [sudo]

Me/

09 Apr 2010 at 20:51 - 7

Please focus on fast casting. Just so nobody looks at my mesmer and says "why aren't you an ele or a necro" no matter what bar I'm running again. Mesmers are the best secondary, and when they're abused as a secondary, the nerf hits the Mesmer. Note: adding in mindbender so necros and eles could have fast casting was just insulting. When do mesmers get soul reaping?

Also, please do something with inspiration. An entire line devoted to energy management is kind of pointless. Maybe some skills that help party members so we're actually useful to a team?

Personally I'd like to see some more support and/or debuffs. I don't want to be a wacky elementalist or a weak necromancer. Shared Burden is the type of skill I'm thinking of more than Energy Surge or Ineptitude (although a not weaksauce version would be nice)

also... maybe a new insignia? replace that "+ armor while casting" insignia for the mesmers. Giving that to the class with fast casting was not the most sensible decision.

mistokibbles

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

N/A

09 Apr 2010 at 20:53 - 8

Fast casting applies only to mesmer skills. PLEASE. Me/N Bloodspam and Me/Mo Smite support has to die.

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

09 Apr 2010 at 20:54 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

Makeing e-denial painful in PVE?????????????????????????????????????
rather then waist your time

That'd be ncie!

Quote:

A little party wide foe hexing would go a long way too

Make Spiteful Spirit a Mesmer skill like it should have been all along? (It IS the elite form of Empathy, after all!)

Quote:

Fast casting should get looked at... I can do it faster can take you so far.

Or can take you nowhere if you don't have a good connection or your connection goes buggy.

I'm not expecting anything more than a possible buff to some skills that would enable Mesmers to create one good build that non-mesmers can understand.

R666

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2009

Milton Keynes, UK

Woman Make Me A Sandwich NAO

D/W

09 Apr 2010 at 21:35 - 10

So Mesmer's get the love for PvE, When do Dervs get some love for PvE & PvP (mostly PvP)? They gave some good buffs a while back but cause other classes abused the buffs they got nerf back again

Snark Is Dead

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

NY

P/Me

09 Apr 2010 at 21:50 - 11

Cool, I'm glad the team is looking into Mesmers in (HM end-game?) PvE. I'm guessing it'll be a substantive update for mesmers. I'll definitely be staying tuned for this.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

09 Apr 2010 at 21:51 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Mxyzptlk

Please focus on fast casting. Just so nobody looks at my mesmer and says "why aren't you an ele or a necro" no matter what bar I'm running again. Mesmers are the best secondary, and when they're abused as a secondary, the nerf hits the Mesmer. Note: adding in mindbender so necros and eles could have fast casting was just insulting. When do mesmers get soul reaping?

Also, please do something with inspiration. An entire line devoted to energy management is kind of pointless. Maybe some skills that help party members so we're actually useful to a team?

Personally I'd like to see some more support and/or debuffs. I don't want to be a wacky elementalist or a weak necromancer. Shared Burden is the type of skill I'm thinking of more than Energy Surge or Ineptitude (although a not weaksauce version would be nice)

also... maybe a new insignia? replace that "+ armor while casting" insignia for the mesmers. Giving that to the class with fast casting was not the most sensible decision.

+1
sorry, couldn't resist.

also there were loads of topics about mesmers in pve in sardelac, vast topics, with suggestions and in-depth thoughts.

Bill Clinton

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2009

09 Apr 2010 at 21:59 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistokibbles

Fast casting applies only to mesmer skills. PLEASE. Me/N Bloodspam and Me/Mo Smite support has to die.

We're talking about PvE.

Thanks for asking for more nerfs, by the way.

I think they should improve fast castings power and in return increase the casting time of all mesmer spells by a second or so. That way Mesmers are just as good at their own spells as they ever were but other proffesions will not want to use them so much.

Thievery skills should all use fast-casting as their atribute in PvE (except simple thievery). Maybe give mesmers an enchantment ''For X seconds all stolen skills use your fast casting attribute''.

More AoE debuffs please. Imagined burned, kitahs burden etc are just piss poor. Either make them AoE or jack up the speed reduction. If ritualists can get skills on the level of binding chains then so should we.

Lets get a litle bit of balance on our signets, shall we? When the hell was Keystone signet ever a good choice. And signet of disenchantment? You gotta be kidding me.

We dont want damage. Forget about cry-of-pain style play.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

09 Apr 2010 at 22:15 - 14

Quote:

We dont want damage. Forget about cry-of-pain style play.

yes, as we've pointed out many times - mesmers weren't designed to deal damage, they were designed to interrupt, disable and generally meddle in the battlefield. let us finally do our job, then.

FireWhale

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

W/E

09 Apr 2010 at 22:23 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

We're talking about PvE.

Thanks for asking for more nerfs, by the way.

I think they should improve fast castings power and in return increase the casting time of all mesmer spells by a second or so. That way Mesmers are just as good at their own spells as they ever were but other proffesions will not want to use them so much.

Thievery skills should all use fast-casting as their atribute in PvE (except simple thievery). Maybe give mesmers an enchantment ''For X seconds all stolen skills use your fast casting attribute''.

More AoE debuffs please. Imagined burned, kitahs burden etc are just piss poor. Either make them AoE or jack up the speed reduction. If ritualists can get skills on the level of binding chains then so should we.

Lets get a litle bit of balance on our signets, shall we? When the hell was Keystone signet ever a good choice. And signet of disenchantment? You gotta be kidding me.

We dont want damage. Forget about cry-of-pain style play.

so you want to discourage dual-prof skill bars, which is a large attraction of this game?

I agree thievery needs to be reworked. AoE debuffs would help a lot, but that gets into the iffy business of hexes being easier to apply when they should be harder.

I also agree buffing signets would help improve the mesmer's arsenal.

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

09 Apr 2010 at 22:25 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

+1
sorry, couldn't resist.

also there were loads of topics about mesmers in pve in sardelac, vast topics, with suggestions and in-depth thoughts.

I'm hoping they looked over those topics carefully. Some of those ideas had a lot of merit. Like making energy denial provide damage. The biggest problem, however, is that buffing Mesmer won't help the situation much. As long as Fast Casting remains as it is, other classes will use Mesmer skills as well as a Mesmer will. Outside of the few FC skills, the attribute isn't that useful for most PvE based builds. Linking some skills to FC would work though, but has to be done carefully.

I expect they have a lot of ideas available, I'm just hoping the choose the good ones.

awry

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2008

09 Apr 2010 at 22:33 - 17

Psychic Instability. Elite Spell. If target non boss foe is under 25...37...40 health, that target foe becomes an ally. You may not have more than 1...1...2... foes under this effect.

Illusionary Weapon. Elite Enchantment Spell. (60 seconds.) Illusionary Weaponry deals 8...34...40 damage to foes in the area when you make melee attacks against them.

Trader of Secrets

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

09 Apr 2010 at 22:38 - 18

I wouldnt be surprised if there wasnt a small tweak on SF was slipped in there. UWSC is revived to almost what it was before the big nerf.

Back to mesmers, they need more pve value.

The Drunkard

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2007

Still looking

Rt/

09 Apr 2010 at 23:03 - 19

I'm guessing they're just going to pump up numbers in PvE, since it's happened for rits, sins, wars, and a few of the nec skills with the recent skill updates.

Gift3d

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Las Vegas

Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR]

W/E

09 Apr 2010 at 23:34 - 20

Remember the last time they said they were gonna buff mesmers in general? Now we can interrupt paragon chants! Hope this buff is actually worthwhile.

mage767

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

LOVE

Me/E

09 Apr 2010 at 23:49 - 21

1. They should introduce non-elite AOE skills for mesmers that DON'T scatter enemies. Necros got a lot of these in the last update with their blood line, and they were already very over-powered. The rits also got some AOE hex skill buffed last update...

2. Totally revamp the shitty FC elites. Either make them all AOE, or change them completely. Example:
(a) Arcane Languor: Elite Hex Spell. For 1...8 seconds, all spells cast by target foe AND ALL ADJACENT FOES cause Exhaustion.

(b) Stolen Speed: Elite Hex Spell. For 5...17 seconds, target foe's spells take 25% longer to cast and your ENTIRE TEAM CAST spells targeting that foe take 25% less time to cast.

(c) Psychic Instability: Elite Spell. Interrupt target foe's AND ALL ADJACENT FOES NEXT action. If that action was a spell, ATTRIBUTES OF THE SAME TYPE ARE DISABLED FOR 10 seconds, and AFFECTED FOES KNOCKED DOWN. (50% failure chance with Fast Casting 4 or less.)

(d) Symbols of Inspiration: (change this completely!): Disable elite skills of target foe and all adjacent foes for 10 seconds. Acquire a random elite from target foe.

3. Inspiration: Some changes:

Channeling: Enchantment Spell. For 8...46 seconds, whenever you cast a spell, you AND ALL PARTY MEMBERS gain 1 Energy for each foe in the area. This should make mesmers more useful to the team.

Phaern Majes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Anywhere but up

The Panserbjorne [ROAR]

R/Mo

09 Apr 2010 at 23:55 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

Remember the last time they said they were gonna buff mesmers in general? Now we can interrupt paragon chants! Hope this buff is actually worthwhile.

Actually I don't, but I'm assuming that's the point.

Maybe make it so every hex also cause 1 pip of health degen for every 2 points into fast casting. Degen lasts 3-5 seconds. *shrug* who knows be interesting to see though.

ll Jamie ll

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2009

Devon, England.

Desolation Lords [DL]

E/Mo

10 Apr 2010 at 00:05 - 23

Just made a mesmer in pve (prophecies as it happens, reliving all those memories), looks like im just in time too.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

10 Apr 2010 at 00:12 - 24

Simply changing them or buffing them a little won't cut it. They need to have just as insanely powerful skills like the other power creep synergy professions and changes that make up for the years of neglect.

Mesmers are a damage profession, but it's just they suck at it with the current game. They have punishment and risk skills.

A lot of skills need skill splitting. Allowing overpowered stuff and making a profession more useful isn't balance because you'll still have the powerful and synergy stuff running around.

Hopefully the Test Krewe isn't that strongly biased enough to foil any attempts at fixing things. I have no faith in them.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

10 Apr 2010 at 00:13 - 25

My Mes has been sitting around waiting for a little tweaking I hope this does it.

asb

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

Europe

Me/

10 Apr 2010 at 00:27 - 26

Oh, this one's is gonna be good.

My take: /dance emote focuses enemy aggro on Mesmer player doing it.

Seriously tho, I'd say they will do something that will promote fast casting, like adding a secondary buff for each spell successfully cast on an enemy.

I'd also really like to see some power creep on the inspiration line, energy draining in particular, but on the other hand of course, monsters like shimmering oozes will become even more dangerous in HM.

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

10 Apr 2010 at 00:33 - 27

Don't set your expectations too high! You'll all just bitch and moan later on.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

10 Apr 2010 at 00:55 - 28

How about tweaking mob AI so things like empathy/backfire will cause mobs to pause or shut some of them down completely? Or make it possible to interrupt mobs in HM.

Or change some of the illusion DoTs to be a single direct damage. Or give them a good spike as well as a smaller DoT effect.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

10 Apr 2010 at 01:02 - 29

Make some interrupts have a lasting effect that makes them not cast or as well. Perhaps make some instantly recharge from successfully interrupting something. More skills that allow people to prevent stuff without having to worry about missing...which is the case in hard mode and normal mode just needs damage.

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

10 Apr 2010 at 01:03 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Mesmers are a damage profession, but it's just they suck at it with the current game.

What? lol.... that was sarcasm, right? I hope.... Mesmers are not a damage class. They can do damage, but so can Monk. Not all classes are based on damage, and Mesmer is one of those. If you said Elementalist was based on damage, I'd agree. Elementalist has a lot of utility as well (blind, weakness, knockdowns, wards, etc.), but they are mainly a class designed around damage. Mesmer, on the other hand, I'd say is a utility class. They do damage, but that is a support role for them, not a core role. They excel more at disruption (either interrupts, casting speed reduction, casting prevention, etc.), and utility (hex removal, adrenaline/energy denial, enchantment removal, etc.). Now, I agree they are weak for PvE use of many of those roles, but they are not a class designed to deal damage.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

10 Apr 2010 at 01:09 - 31

Thanks for your narrow minded opinion. Never said mesmers were a damage profession as in that's all they do, perhaps read other posts without picking what you want. Mesmers and monks are damage professions because this is Guild Wars we're talking about.

snikerz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Rt/A

10 Apr 2010 at 02:42 - 32

no need to buff mezmers in pve

-Makai-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

WA

DH

Rt/

10 Apr 2010 at 02:59 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by snikerz

no need to buff mezmers in pve

Yep...because gimmicks are the only way to play.

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

10 Apr 2010 at 03:31 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sante_Kelm

Yep...because gimmicks are the best way to play.

Fixed.

There are a number of obvious ways to buff mes PvE:
- Link monster skills to attributes and allow them to be disabled by skills like Power Block or stolen/copied by skills like Arcane Thievery or Inspired Hex.
- Make more punishment hexes and interrupts AoE and/or increase the duration of those skills. Think Backfire or Ineptitude with "nearby" or "in the area" radius.
- Make interrupting viable in HM. Easy ways to do this are to make skills like Migraine AoE. Alternatively, increase the speed penalty to 150 or 200%.
- Greatly increase the potency of e-denial to compensate for the accelerated energy regen of monsters; skills that cause complete energy loss or -10 pips of energy regen should exist to make e-denial an efficient tactic in PvE.
- Lower recharge time and energy cost of b&b interrupts; alternatively, alter some interrupts to return energy or instantly recharge if the interrupt is successful.

Edit: upon further consideration, the last effect (energy return or instant recharge) could be linked to the FC attribute as an X energy returned or X% chance of recharge per point.

Life Bringing

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Fissure of Woe

[LOD]/[GS]/[DL]/[LOD*]

N/P

10 Apr 2010 at 04:02 - 35

The problem with buffing any interrupt skills is that it's really a hero buff, not a player buff

-Makai-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

WA

DH

Rt/

10 Apr 2010 at 04:10 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

The problem with buffing any interrupt skills is that it's really a hero buff, not a player buff

True that.

Personally, I think it'd be nice if a bunch of Inspiration spells were linked to Fast Casting in some way, similar to how Glowing Gaze, Glowstone, etc. are linked to E-Storage. A "this skill recharges x seconds faster for y points in Fast Casting" clause would be great.

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

10 Apr 2010 at 04:19 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

How about tweaking mob AI so things like empathy/backfire will cause mobs to pause or shut some of them down completely? Or make it possible to interrupt mobs in HM.

Or change some of the illusion DoTs to be a single direct damage. Or give them a good spike as well as a smaller DoT effect.

Agreed, imo most of the problems for mesmers are due to HM casting times ect. Removing the cast time would make mesmers more wanted (in my mind set anyway) for sitting on eles ect, stopping that double damage would be worth having a mesmer to me.

I also think interrupting should have better effects in pve, for example

Power flux, if target foe is interrupted target foes nearby take 15 damage for each rank in fast casting

Here are some other basic ideas I'd like to see.

Dom

Panic, hex target foe with panic for 10 secs next spell that foe uses fails. If a spell fails target foe gets knocked down every 2 secs for each rank in fast casting.

Backfire now hexes all foes nearby if fast casting is above 4 (this also will encourage player monks to take hex removal rather than a bar full of heals... hopefully...)

Diversion now hexes all foes nearby if fast casting is above 4, and skill backfires on the caster.

Shame/Guilt now cause 8 damage for each rank in fast casting as well.

Ill

Conjure Nightmare/Phantasm now also causes 4 damage each sec to adjacent foes for each rank in fast casting

Imagined Burden now hexes all foes in the area if Fast casting is above 4 (imo would allow for more team work because it allows melee to have less down time when a mob moves away, as well is allows your casters to kite in HM)

Clumsiness skills (or skills like them) cause 2 damage to nearby foes for each rank in fast casting

Insp

Channeling, enchants party members if FC is above 4

Ether lord, hex target foe with either lord, allies nearby gain 1 energy for each rank in fast casting whenever that foe cast a spell.

Spirit Shackles target foe loses 5 energy whenever it attacks. The ally who that foe is attacking gains 5 energy if your fast casting is above 4

reaper with no name

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2009

FaZ

D/

10 Apr 2010 at 04:22 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by R666

So Mesmer's get the love for PvE, When do Dervs get some love for PvE & PvP (mostly PvP)? They gave some good buffs a while back but cause other classes abused the buffs they got nerf back again

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, first of all. All she said was a couple of changes for mesmers in PvE. This could mean anything, and statistically speaking, any buffs (if there are any) would most likely not help the class significantly (going by Anet's history). It's possible Anet might be able to fix the class (they fixed rits after all), but it will be difficult, and I'm not sure they'll succeed.

And calm down. One (nearly) useless class at a time. Right now, it's the mesmer's turn.

Besides, dervishes need more help in PvE than they do in PvP.

R_Frost

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

Me/

10 Apr 2010 at 04:29 - 39

i just hope that if this is a mesmer skill buff update or some skills changed that Anet actually tests this stuff and see what effects happen in NM and HM. all we need is for Anet to take the cheep way out for skill changes and shorten casting time and/or recharge time on some skills for PvE only then find the HM Ai that uses the same skills just got way more difficult to fight because they failed or the fail crew didnt catch it before release.

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

10 Apr 2010 at 04:36 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by snikerz

no need to buff mezmers in pve

I don't see a single Mesmer primary skill in that selection.

/failed argument