Mesmer Speculation - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 06:52 - 121

Quote:

Please, just give us the time, and we will give you a stellar update, I promise.

i'm fine with it and i have some high hopes and faith as long as you also promise to balance out it further if something gets broken or you happen to introduce new mechanics/skills that still suck or suck more.
as i've said earlier many times, i'm fine with not-the-best updates or changes that are changed after a day or two - either changed back or changed the other way around. would be nice to be assured that if that update turns out not to be that great as it sounds, it will still be balanced out, even by tiny bits - even by a skill every two days, as the general core of the update would be already done.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

15 Apr 2010 at 07:02 - 122

Allamorph

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2009

The Basement

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

E/Me

15 Apr 2010 at 07:28 - 123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

I want to see not how people on a forum (which is typically a place for people that have only negative feedback come) react,....

This is simultaneously the most intelligent statement I've seen on these boards so far and one of the best casual shots I've seen anyone, including myself, take. Bravo, sir.

Also, I and my little mesmer girlie eagerly await the fruits of your labors.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

15 Apr 2010 at 07:30 - 124

it would be nice to be able to get into a pug with my mesmers....that would be a great big change in my book----am looking forward to this as I have a mesmer working towards gwamm.

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

15 Apr 2010 at 07:55 - 125

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

When you'll be looking into the dervish-issue, you TRASH other options so that the dervish will be on par with them and not buff the dervish up to the level of insanity on which these other options are now.

You're giving Anet and the test krewe way too much credit.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

15 Apr 2010 at 11:21 - 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The guys at A.Net need to sit down and take a few days to rethink how they want GW (and more importantly GW2!) to play. Unless they already did that and the decision that they reached was that GW is supposed to be a massive grindfest.

Players turned GW into this "massive grindfest".

Anet just stopped developing the current game and moved to the next one. It's just that people are obsessed with GW1, looked for artificial ways to prolong their gaming experience beyond natural, and became obsessed with efficiency. Grinding is present in Guild Wars, in massive proportions, no doubt. But it's no way a mandatory task, it's players who self-inflict grinding to themselves because they just can't quit playing, so they simply keep on doing whatever they can by compulsion.

You can't blame Anet for that, you can't blame them for giving their customer base what they were asking.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 11:46 - 127

Quote:

But it's no way a mandatory task, it's players who self-inflict grinding to themselves because they just can't quit playing, so they simply keep on doing whatever they can by compulsion.

nah - getting titles is still playing the content. to get sweet tooth, party, drunkard, th, wisdom, lucky and unlucky maxed, not to mention kurzick and luxon, one has to grind up a lot.
grindfest is compulsory if you want to get into unlocking achievements. and well, most nowadays games have those, even ra3, and their a vital part of the game's mechanics and what we see as 'fun'.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

15 Apr 2010 at 11:49 - 128

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 12:13 - 129

content with no grind in mmo would be repeating. as in - there's not much new things to do tbh, every new story will somehow resemble the past ones. and will be playable much shorter than the grind may be - if people are able to finish NM factions in ~4-5 hours, a whole campaign, the game would be pretty much dead without any form of grind.

but that's not the topic. i kinda agree with you that the skills are a tad broken now. there are too many skills, and skill combinations, that are overpowered in game. although i don't find anything wrong in rolling through the pve content faster than it should be - if vanquishing one area takes about an hour, it's still long enough for the game.
i'm always much more concerned about the availability of overpowered things. back when monks could easily 600/smite and only sins had imbalanced SF, other classes were handicapped. though 600/smite and SF were truly broken and should never see the light of the day, i'm not totally against powerful skills/builds - as long as every class has it's own powerful niche and, in the end, the classes are balanced among themselves in terms of power.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 12:24 - 130

Perhaps someone can tell what was done about physicals? How were they addressed? The last update was indeed made to encourage and further buff physical based groups, despite them being so powerful already.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

15 Apr 2010 at 13:26 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Part of being a game designer is knowing what you want to do with your game

They chose to halt any further development of this game. Was it a wise decision? Probably not.

New professions and skills added to the game could have been problematic, considering half of the current professions are redundant and a lot of skills are never used. But, heck, who ever said a new campaign was to come with these? Couldn't they just work on a couple new expansions? New maps, missions, quests and areas were absolutely feasible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

and sticking with the plan even if it does (slightly) contradict with what players want.

The players wanted more content. They stuck to the plan and chose to contradict them, halting any further development anyway.

So, for the playerbase, the limited content introduced so far was all that was given to them. It's the playerbase who chose to stick with GW1 - a game not being developed anymore. You can question the shortsightedness of ANet in this process (did they REALLY think they could develop a new game from scratch in less than two years?), but, really, have you signed a death pact agreement with ANet that forces you to play - hence, to grind?

I don't see a single reason for people to keep on playing when:

- They find the game boring because of the lack of new content
- They find the game utterly broken
- They have played whatever they could in 5 years and now resort to repetitive grinding

It's a matter of choice. Doing something you don't like because you can't do without it is compulsion. Pure and simple. You either like the fact that the "playable content" is over, and stick to these optional tasks like grinding titles and hoarding shinies and golds, or not. Without new content worth this name, there's nothing to be done. Tone down grinding, and in a matter of months you'll have nothing to do and moan again about the game being dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

A.Net decided that they were too lazy to actually develop content so they took the easy road and gave us a shitload of grind.

It was there already. It's just that the game is over now, and this shitload of grind is everything that's left for us, and it's more evident than ever now that no new content is being offered.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

15 Apr 2010 at 13:47 - 132

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

15 Apr 2010 at 13:50 - 133

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

To put this as bluntly as possible:
Melee physicals were buffed in the last update.
This either means that A.Net isn't listening to the suggestions you guys make, or you guys have no idea what you are doing.
For future reference:
YOU.DO.NOT.BUFF.MELEE.PHYSICALS.
When you'll be looking into the dervish-issue, you TRASH other options so that the dervish will be on par with them and not buff the dervish up to the level of insanity on which these other options are now.

As long as those groups represent "everyday players" - there is absolutely no way to fix PvE. And if you are going to update the mesmers to cater to these groups of players, there is just no way that you can keep a hint of balance in the class.

The guys at A.Net need to sit down and take a few days to rethink how they want GW (and more importantly GW2!) to play. Unless they already did that and the decision that they reached was that GW is supposed to be a massive grindfest.

Compared to most MMOs, Guild Wars is anything but a grindfest.

We buffed Hammer Mastery, to make hammer a more viable solution in PvE. Subsequently, some monsters became rather icky to go against, some became pointless. The monster skill update that followed in March addressed many of those issues. We buffed Tactics, a line that desperately needed some help. I, personally, still don't believe Tactics is quite where it should be, but it's at least good enough to be viable in some builds.

So you suggest we should change the game to cater to who? You? Elite players? You don't makes changes that benefit the top 1-5% of a population, you make changes that benefit the lower 10-80% who represent the normal. Sorry we don't run things like America, go QQ about it elsewhere. Changes aren't ever going to make everyone happy, that's fact. Hammer needed buffs to be viable in PvE, Tactics needed buffs to be viable in general. Mesmers need buffs and changes to be viable in PvE. These are facts, not assumptions.

So... PvE is a bit harder in some areas... OH NO (because being able to steam roll an area is normal right?.. yeh, no) ANET isn't out to make you and only you happy Upier, it's out to make the majority of the population in Guild Wars happy, while maintaining each elite area's difficultly level. Gimmick builds should exist, but they shouldn't overshadow balanced teams that work together. That's it, simple and to the point.

maxxfury

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

[DVDF] Gp

Me/A

15 Apr 2010 at 13:59 - 134

I really hope! that rajah et all on the TK who know what they are doing and have some vision, dont get overridden by the management/less knowledgeable on these potential nice balance ideas....

Keep pushing the good ideas Rajah! just hope that the other lower tier classes will see a little love too, like the derv, ranger and the para or it will just be the mes stepping on head to get in front. Leaving someone else on the bottom of the pile. Oh and a few "Un-buffs" wouldnt hurt to some of the more OP stuff

*cough* Er *cough :P

a little positivity in the negativity of the riverside

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 14:30 - 135

Quote:

(because the mesmer already works in non-grind content).

it doesn't.
i mean - everything works in non-grind content, aka doing missions - in general. but that's due to powerful heroes (see: guys running blank builds in HM at wartower and letting heroes do everything). to say it short, mesmers work in the game not because they are powerful enough to do something viable there, but the game is easy enough with it's current mechanics to allow even a mesmer player to achieve the basic goals.

Quote:

I, personally, still don't believe Tactics is quite where it should be, but it's at least good enough to be viable in some builds.

warrior's tactics -> 'what tactics do I use in order to be better at killing and staying alive'. dodges, parries, shielding, personal buffs only. party-wide stuff from tactics, party buffs, shouts and general party-management should be moved to paragon's motivation, making it a bit more useful.

Quote:

Gimmick builds should exist, but they shouldn't overshadow balanced teams that work together. That's it, simple and to the point.

i actually agree on this point. still, the gimmicks should be given out in the same amounts to all classes - i think that was one of upier's points, though his ideas were too overpowered.
still, the general idea is - if they (other classes) can do xyz with a gimmick, a mesmer should be able to do it too that way. if less than 6-7 classes can do something with a gimmick, it should be nerfed (as 600/smite was).

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

15 Apr 2010 at 14:52 - 136

Master Mxyzptlk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Obey My Command [sudo]

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 15:07 - 137

I'm going to come to Upier's defense here (I think, not entirely sure who's making which points sometimes).

A mesmer buff should ideally include making mesmers useful for High end PvE. Everyone runs gimmicks in those, unless they're running with a guild because those areas are usually designed in such a way that only gimmicks are reliable with pick up groups. I'm not talking speed clearing the dungeons/UW. I'm just talking normal/hardmode play. How many random pugs can do HM DoA? Or the Deep?

Mesmers can do fine in normal PvE campaign play. Anyone with heroes and henchmen can. Some areas are harder than others, thats expected, normal, and desired. I would like my mesmer to be able to go into the DoA where there are no henchmen. So I'm not saying that we should make the game easier for the top 5% of players, I don't think we should, even without insulting people's nationality. But those top 5% can get into DoA on their mesmer with their awesome guild, or they use their other two accounts for 6 necro heroes or whatever.

If you want to buff a game for the bottom 80%, give them a way to get into the DoA and such with PuGs or their guild of 4 local friends. I'm not saying Mesmers need a place in 10 minute UWSC, I'm saying clearing the underworld shouldn't be restricted to the top 5% of players or those that pick gimmicks up off of PvX.

I don't expect this update to change that. But I would like it to bring us closer to that.

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

15 Apr 2010 at 15:08 - 138

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Take hammers.
Pre-buff.
Throw SoH on them.
GDW.
Orders.
Barbs.
MoP.
Cracked Armour.
EBSoH.
Ancestor's Rage the guy.
Asuran Scan.
All while you can run SY!

And what did the update bring?
You buffed hammers.
You buffed Blood which already had Orders which now means more options.
You buffed AR.

And you are now going against monsters that have 600HP while you do 100-200 damage per hit (pre-AS).

And this thing now isn't the most overpowered thing in the game.
There actually are better options than this.
Which means that the things that are "viable" are so obscenely overpowered that they shouldn't even be in the game, let alone represent the norm.
For instance, mesmers have caster induced AoE daze though FD.
They have unlimited energy through AP.
Insta-cast KDs, deep wounds, ... though PvE-only skills.
Dervishes suffer under the same thing. They are the vessel for the insane physical buffs. They can use SY! Covered DW every few secs.
And just like the mesmer they are considered to not be viable. And the only reason why that is so is because our idea of what is "viable" is completely broken.

And that's exactly why the mesmer works.
I mean we just took down Duncan with a bunch of Disco-heroes which ended up being pretty darn useless (I only saw them use Disco a few times), a spirit spammer whose spirits refused to go after Duncan (we forgot to being Swap so all the spirits stayed in the spawn locations ...), me as a Spirit's Strength bow rit and a Avatar of Balthasar-dervish, relying on my and the Dervishes auto-attacks.
Not being viable means that you do not have the insane strength of the best options, yet your output is still far above that what should be considered balanced.

Things you are pointing out aren't really that overpowered. PvE is the way it is, and the way you are suggesting things, you want revisions and changes that would make the game nearly impossible to play for a vast majority of players. Again, game companies don't cater to the top 5% of players who are the brightest and best, they cater to the bottom 10-80% who are max level, have the basic things they need, and want to farm/work on titles/get better armor.

So... sorry I guess that the game isn't free of gimmicky or meta builds... but that's the way it is. Do you think there aren't gimmicky things in WoW's PvE? You're sadly mistaken if you do. The issue with Mesmers is fundamental: Why interrupt stuff when we can just kill it fast and ignore it for the rest of the fight? Answer: PvE mobs aren't balanced in many parts of the game, and gimmick builds work against that. That's why we are going to introduce another change that should fix some of these stupid gimmick builds that don't revolve around a balanced team working together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Mxyzptlk

I'm going to come to Upier's defense here (I think, not entirely sure who's making which points sometimes).

A mesmer buff should ideally include making mesmers useful for High end PvE. Everyone runs gimmicks in those, unless they're running with a guild because those areas are usually designed in such a way that only gimmicks are reliable with pick up groups. I'm not talking speed clearing the dungeons/UW. I'm just talking normal/hardmode play. How many random pugs can do HM DoA? Or the Deep?

Mesmers can do fine in normal PvE campaign play. Anyone with heroes and henchmen can. Some areas are harder than others, thats expected, normal, and desired. I would like my mesmer to be able to go into the DoA where there are no henchmen. So I'm not saying that we should make the game easier for the top 5% of players, I don't think we should, even without insulting people's nationality. But those top 5% can get into DoA on their mesmer with their awesome guild, or they use their other two accounts for 6 necro heroes or whatever.

If you want to buff a game for the bottom 80%, give them a way to get into the DoA and such with PuGs or their guild of 4 local friends. I'm not saying Mesmers need a place in 10 minute UWSC, I'm saying clearing the underworld shouldn't be restricted to the top 5% of players or those that pick gimmicks up off of PvX.

I don't expect this update to change that. But I would like it to bring us closer to that.

The update probably won't change some people's views of Mesmers, or maybe it will. It will certainly make the Mesmer a valid choice against other classes, without overshadowing those other classes. Groups should be able to choose what they want to bring to a group from a pool of available people in the district, not have to specify a specific class to effectively deal damage. Mesmers will still focus on interrupting and punishment for actions against mobs, but they will just be more appreciated for their skill.

And no, we aren't buffing Mesmers so they are "the new thing" What our goal is, is more equality in organized play. PUGs are worthless as it is, and will probably remain that way given the nature of the game's PvE systems. That won't change in Guild Wars 1, at least not from what I can see. PUGs will either be forced to use broken gimmicky builds that may or may not succeed guaranteed, or they will not do those elite areas. You don't see many DoA PUGs do too well for this reason.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 15:11 - 139

upier, i took duncan down in two people + 6 heroes, with me on a mesmer and another player being the rit. no problems there.
moreso, we took down whole doa, including the big ape. the same combination. only had problems at the foundry and the ape took us a while, but after figuring the right builds, it went fine.

but it all went fine when i chose not to bring any mesmer skills, having ~6 in FC and all skills from secondary + pve skills. so something's wrong.

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

15 Apr 2010 at 15:17 - 140

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

upier, i took duncan down in two people + 6 heroes, with me on a mesmer and another player being the rit. no problems there.
moreso, we took down whole doa, including the big ape. the same combination. only had problems at the foundry and the ape took us a while, but after figuring the right builds, it went fine.

but it all went fine when i chose not to bring any mesmer skills, having ~6 in FC and all skills from secondary + pve skills. so something's wrong.

Bingo! Mesmer's don't really play their primary in PvE very often, because of the nature of PvE. They are also typically forced to run very nasty attribute splits in order to be semi effective. These are things we are focusing on...

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

15 Apr 2010 at 15:27 - 141

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 15:36 - 142

Quote:

You were able to complete all content on what we consider a sub-par option. You won the game.
If this was truly a sub-par option, you'd fail.

don't know about you, but i consider primairy mesmer + mesmer skills to be sub-par, mostly the skills though. and they're connected to the fact of being primairy mes, so...
i haven't brought any mesmer skills there, not even for e-management. if i had another primairy - ANY other primairy, even derv tbh - i'd be able to bring a mix of primairy, secondary and pve. as a mesmer, i've tried to bring several mesmery builds, then tried mesmery e-management and some more or less useful stuff, but it worked out only if i completely disregarded my main profession and went on sin+pve in case of duncan and ele+pve in case of mallyx.
if mesmer wasn't inferior, i would use my main more often, especially there.

still, i wouldn't fail - i'm only 1/8 of the team. but if i brought five mesmers - we probably would have no chance at those locations. on the other hand, five monks...

Master Mxyzptlk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Obey My Command [sudo]

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 15:58 - 143

one of the things that always frightens me about balancing mesmers is the cheating skills (MoR, Echo, Keystone signet, etc.), the skills that break the normal rules.

A lot of the mesmer skills have long recharges, because mesmers brought MoR (for a while, the only valuable elite). So the skill recharges were extended to balance them with MoR. Then MoR was required to make those skills useful, but you couldn't balance everything to MoR, so MoR was nerfed to next to useless (see WoQ, way better). then only a couple skill recharges were reduced, the rest were still long. Look what happened when they dropped the recharge on keystone signet. Suddenly signets were terrifyingly awesome. Too much. Then they reverted that, signets became next to useless again.

I don't know the best way to deal with this, but please don't force our choices of elites into MoR to deal with recharges (or AP now that MoR is dead), or away from them like keystone signet because they're too dangerous so the only other option is useless.

Not that there aren't a pile of useless non-cheating skills, elite or otherwise.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

15 Apr 2010 at 16:33 - 144

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Take hammers.
Pre-buff.
Throw SoH on them.
GDW.
Orders.
Barbs.
MoP.
Cracked Armour.
EBSoH.
Ancestor's Rage the guy.
Asuran Scan.
All while you can run SY!

So, basically, melee is overpowered... because you can devote half a team to BUFF a melee physical and then things work wonders... Really?

You do realize that you mentioned up to 9 skills out of 3 professions just to buff one single character? You do realize that SY! is easily shutdown by blocks, blind, hexes, adren-denial? So, that implies one more slot to have someone keeping the SY!-spammers clean. SY! on melee physicals is hardly mantainable, so you also need one or two more guys on the frontline to help spamming. Buffs can't be mantained efficiently on all of them tough. And there you have it, a full team, and let's not forget that this requires pretty much a full-human setup to work properly. Go figure, this full team works better than, say, pretty much every solo build.

That's called "sinergy", not "overpowered"... Melee isn't overpowered by itself, a shitton of buffs on a melee character don't make it overpowered either.

We can argue about the game being centered on melee physicals, but then again, melee is highly represented by 1/3 of the available professions (and then we have 2 more ranged physicals that could benefit from some of those buffs), so you can't call a thing requiring mostly human players and all the imaginable buffs in the game "overpowered"...

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

15 Apr 2010 at 16:39 - 145

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Take hammers.
Pre-buff.
Throw SoH on them.
GDW.
Orders.
Barbs.
MoP.
Cracked Armour.
EBSoH.
Ancestor's Rage the guy.
Asuran Scan.
All while you can run SY!

And what did the update bring?
You buffed hammers.
You buffed Blood which already had Orders which now means more options.
You buffed AR.

And you are now going against monsters that have 600HP while you do 100-200 damage per hit (pre-AS).

Your argument is no different then me picking out 10 commonly known good skills that have some resemblance of synergy onto a team build and calling it overpowered. It's not like you can fit all that onto 1 profession.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

15 Apr 2010 at 17:01 - 146

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

15 Apr 2010 at 17:49 - 147

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

When I run my assassin with h/h, I normally just run Splinter, AR and SoH.
And yet, even with a team that is far from being optimal - I am able to achieve results that I don't think should be possible.

Why not?

Those three buffs don't seem anything to write home about to me. And you need someone just to mantain SoH on you - easily stripped. Playing a overbuffed physical is efficient, but it's just proportional to the efforts needed to have all of these buffs on you.

The availability of even more buffs doesn't make a role or category overpowered. When you need a full party made of human players, all devoted to pumping up the damage dealt by one single character, it's not overpowered to me, it's just well focused and efficient, but also easy to disrupt. I would call physicals "overpowered" if they could do this all by themselves, but they can't, and they can't even with just heroes in their team...

So... I can assume that stacking Visions of Regret with Wastrel's Worry, Backfire, Empathy, Spiteful Spirit, Insidious Parasite, Pain Inverter, all while under the effects of Intensity makes reactive hexing great, doesn't it? It even just takes two slots instead of 6+!

reaper with no name

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2009

FaZ

D/

15 Apr 2010 at 18:21 - 148

Rahja, I have one question.

Why aren't you the head of community relations?

WarcryOfTruth

Site Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2009

Atlanta

[LIFE]

P/

15 Apr 2010 at 18:33 - 149

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

it would be nice to be able to get into a pug with my mesmers....that would be a great big change in my book----am looking forward to this as I have a mesmer working towards gwamm.

Why aren't you able to get into a pug as a mesmer? I'd take a mesmer into any pug of mine most def!

Allamorph

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2009

The Basement

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

E/Me

15 Apr 2010 at 18:44 - 150

I am going to point out something here, and I am going to do so in a slightly obnoxious manner because it was missed the first time, and it was missed again when I pointed it out previously, so I'm beginning to wonder if people are a tad dense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

I want to see not how people on a forum (which is typically a place for people that have only negative feedback come) react,....

Translation: The most vocal people here are bitter malcontents. And their opinions are being treated accordingly.

Also:

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

And yet, even with a team that is far from being optimal - I am able to achieve results that I don't think should be possible.

Right. That you don't think should be possible.

I am not under the impression currently that you are the be-all and end-all of mmo gaming. I am also not under the impression, and I think several people here would agree, that your opinion is merely opinion, and will continue to be merely opinion regardless of how long and how hard you tout otherwise.

If being able to kill things in nasty and creative ways makes you unable to enjoy the game, try dropping your attribute levels a tad. That's nerfing your physicals, so you stay happy, and the rest of the game can progress without you.

Also remember that when you're over there playing with yourself—and your h/h—that you're simulating a team where the only difference is that you have complete control over half the team and intellectual control over the other half. In essence, you are neither a solo player nor a contributor to the team. You are the entire team. So any analogies you can make are tinged with your habit of setting up the entire team to benefit you (as the physical damage dealer) instead of actual team synergy.

Other than that, if you actually wanted your ideas listened to I would have assumed you'd know enough to suggest instead of demand. People tend to be more willing to work with you if you don't talk to them like they have shit for brains (even if they do have shit for brains; I'm not calling either way here). As it stands, I'm seeing Rahja being as respectful as they can and making a good deal of sense, and I'm seeing you being an overbearing ass and making a small bit of sense strung together with claims that you can't make.

Guess who's going to get listened to?

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 19:03 - 151

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allamorph

The most vocal people here are bitter malcontents.

Well, why would someone listen to a troll without a conclusion on the original topic? The "bitter malcontents" still care and they're likely "bitter" because they see what's happening. If Anet and the Test Krewe don't have "shit for brains" they'd be able to consider things regardless.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

15 Apr 2010 at 19:04 - 152

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

15 Apr 2010 at 19:24 - 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

A.Net decided that they were too lazy to actually develop content so they took the easy road and gave us a shitload of grind.

Well no, they pretty much stopped making content, which you really cant blame them for that. The players are the people who make this a grind with their need for PvX builds rather than making their own or even doing byob.

"To put this as bluntly as possible" if you're ever grinding in this game, its due to your own lack of creativity and or willingness to stop grinding with farming builds.

Does GW have some grinding in it? Sure, but compared to other MMOs its painting something everyday vs painting the same tree everyday.

Allamorph

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2009

The Basement

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

E/Me

15 Apr 2010 at 19:36 - 154

For that matter, working a 9-to-5 job five days a week should be considered grinding, since you're doing essentially the same thing 5/7 days over and over again just to build up your cash count so you can buy those consumables you need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Well, why would someone listen to a troll without a conclusion on the original topic?

Also because my input on the topic was already established. Why the frick would I say the same thing every time I post just so each post has a conclusion to the original topic?

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 19:40 - 155

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allamorph

Also because my input on the topic was already established. Why the frick would I say the same thing every time I post just so each post has a conclusion to the original topic?

Your only feedback was basically "don't be negative, m'kay?" in this topic.

Allamorph

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2009

The Basement

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

E/Me

15 Apr 2010 at 19:48 - 156

Also drugs are bad. Don't do them. (I think you're confusing "don't be negative" for "don't be an arrogant ass", though, which is slightly different.)

But considering I approach most everything in more of an "I never know 'til afterwards" mindset, I don't particularly feel like rendering judgment before seeing the evidence, what since I am one of those nonexistent new players who hasn't yet had time to be jaded.

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

15 Apr 2010 at 20:05 - 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Mxyzptlk

one of the things that always frightens me about balancing mesmers is the cheating skills (MoR, Echo, Keystone signet, etc.), the skills that break the normal rules.

A lot of the mesmer skills have long recharges, because mesmers brought MoR (for a while, the only valuable elite). So the skill recharges were extended to balance them with MoR. Then MoR was required to make those skills useful, but you couldn't balance everything to MoR, so MoR was nerfed to next to useless (see WoQ, way better). then only a couple skill recharges were reduced, the rest were still long. Look what happened when they dropped the recharge on keystone signet. Suddenly signets were terrifyingly awesome. Too much. Then they reverted that, signets became next to useless again.

I don't know the best way to deal with this, but please don't force our choices of elites into MoR to deal with recharges (or AP now that MoR is dead), or away from them like keystone signet because they're too dangerous so the only other option is useless.

Not that there aren't a pile of useless non-cheating skills, elite or otherwise.

Don't worry, we are trying to work the game away from having a niche selections of elites that are the only worthwhile ones. These buffs encompass a huge number of skills, and they aren't dart board in approach. Also, keep in mind that when we do skill balances, we try to avoid PvE and PvP splits, as that's more overhead on the game, and is confusing to have so many splits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allamorph

Translation: The most vocal people here are bitter malcontents. And their opinions are being treated accordingly.

Err... no, I specifically mentioned that I look at this thread everyday and look for feedback that is:

Possible to be implemented
Is well thought out, not "I wish..." pipe dreams
Is clear and concise
Is practical and rational

Does that put me in a position of being judgmental? Yep.... but at least I'm bothering to seek external feedback from multiple sources, which includes taking input from a fan forum; which, on average, draws those unhappy with game play or mechanics compared to those happy with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Rahja, I have one question.

Why aren't you the head of community relations?

Because I wouldn't want to be, even if offered, and keep this in mind; I do not work for ANET, and I cannot speak for them, nor do I represent them in any fashion. These views are my own, through and through.

Master Mxyzptlk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Obey My Command [sudo]

Me/

15 Apr 2010 at 20:09 - 158

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allamorph

For that matter, working a 9-to-5 job five days a week should be considered grinding, since you're doing essentially the same thing 5/7 days over and over again just to build up your cash count so you can buy those consumables you need.

No, thats not entirely accurate, because many people are not performing the same exact task over and over. you may be performing similar tasks, or generic tasks, but thats more the equivalent of "my elementalist does nothing but cast spells". The grind everyone complains about (especially PvE skill titles) is more like a car mechanic being forced to repair the same problem on the same car one thousand times before ford will let him work on ford models. Then he has to turn around and do the same thing for toyota. Once he's done the thousand cars, then he can start doing his job and working on different problems on different cars. And yes, you could stop before maxing it, and that car mechanic can put a sign out after 500 cars that says "can repair ford cars, just not well"

Not really on topic, but the grind in guildwars irks me greatly.

more on topic. I think a large part of the mesmer improvements need to focus on fast casting. Basically mesmers get punched a lot because they're abused as a secondary (almost every inspiration nerf, and a good deal of others, CoP was by E/Me and N/Me, distortion, Mantras, hexbreaker, etc.). Fast Casting, the attribute that cannot be abused by secondaries, had crap for skills, some of which are outdated (cast signets faster, when fast casting does that normally) or are just crap to begin with.

Especially when mindbender exists. I can be a E/Me with the equivalent of 12 in fast casting, with no attribute point cost and access to energy storage. Plus, I move faster. I use signets slower, but I don't care, since what signets would I use anyway?

a lot of the abused secondary skills could be moved to fast casting and unnerfed. Distortion was abused by mindblast eles, so move it to fast casting, and you're fine. Don't nerf it so the mesmers cant use it. just one example.

end of overly verbose rant.

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

15 Apr 2010 at 20:30 - 159

The only thing I can forsee making Mesmer a class PUGs would start using on a regular basis is a change to Fast Casting. Skill changes can be nice, but when any class can make use of those skills and only miss 1-4 attribute points from runes/armor, it doesn't fix the problem. Fast Casting has little to no problem in PvP, but for PvE there isn't much use from it. Making a split attribute isn't something I expect they would do, nor do I want them to.

I'd be happier to see a change to Fast Casting that dealt with energy, recharge, or even armor. Of all the class specific armor insignias, Mesmer is the class I find the worst. Not many builds focus on signets, so Artificer's isn't going to offer much. Fast Casting means you are spending less time casting spells, so Virtuoso's isn't going to do much either. The long recharge times do make good use of Prodigy's, but not many people want to rely on multiple long recharge spells, so will select a build with mostly fast recharging skills. Perhaps reword the insignias and Fast Casting together to create a nice option for armor use. And anyone who knows how to make a good build knows that armor is part of that equation.

NerfHerder

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2010

15 Apr 2010 at 20:31 - 160

Is this thread still about mesmer specualtion?

Speaking of which, I have seen alot of good recommendations. I would be happy if all the mesmer PvE buffs were only usable by a Mesmer. I'd love to use a full Mesmer skill set and be an asset to my team. I know some mesmer builds are viable, but it would be nice if we could see LF Mesmer in the search party menu. Im not saying they should be OP as Rts are but it would be nice if they were as wanted in a group. Mesmers really are a unique class, and are alot of fun to use. I enjoy Mesmers because they are like the thinking mans profession, you dont just set up spirits and watch everyone else do all the work.