Advanced Mo/W Bots in RA - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

snikerz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Rt/A

20 Apr 2010 at 11:01 - 1

DO NOT MENTION THE NAMES OF ANY BOTS. If you feel you have names or links that need to be shared, feel free to PM Regina, Martin, Emily, or Stephane.

Hi all,

For the past week I've been noticing Mo/W bots in RA, no I'm not talking about the rupt bots that are rampant today, i'm talking about fully unmanned Mo/W bots that act much like hero/henchmen. I believe I posted here 2-3 years ago about bots in RA which ANet did nothing about; because of the level of sophistication they have, it would make it pretty tough for ANet to pick up consistencies on the server log.

A 1 second search on google revealed its creator and the capabilities of this particular bot, heres a copy'n'paste of what it does.

Heals self and party members
Cures self and party members
Removes hex from self and party members
Energy management
Checks for Dishonorable effect
Checks for melee impact
Checks for death
Checks for Daze,Shame,Backfire,Empathy,Diversion on self
Dodges Broad Head Arrow and Lightning Orb
Avoids knockdowns
Great movement
Attacks nearest enemy
Resigns if 2 or more party members are monks (not if you won the last round)
Gets Z-Keys every 5000 balth points
Counts win + lose + Z-Keys

Now I've seen this in action and I can say with certainty, It does all that and more, its very hard to detect the movement patterns, It seems to have the ability to stay with the group without direct confrontation of the team, as you would when you click someones name and hit spacebar. it can space itself out evenly if the group is wide apart, making it near impossible to detect, the only way I could tell was, since I was a Necro at the time, It would have instantaneous reactions to heal me when I would sacrifice health at the start of the match before the gates opened.
Whats even more frightening is the fact this bot took our group to 25 wins without even breaking a sweat, it appears it can't pre-viel or pre-guardian, so those are other tell signs to watch out for.

To Anet staff, please reply here if you recognize and are aware of the problem, and I and the rest of the honest community hope you have a plan to eradicate these pests.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

20 Apr 2010 at 11:26 - 2

This is only RA. I know these bots exist, and are getting used, in top GvG. We're talking about pretty much every routine a regular player does, bots will do to, and more.

Stop kiting bots for when Bull's is getting used on you. Cancelbots for when diversion and shame is about to be cast on you. Even cancel interrupt bots, which will cancel your spells if an interrupt is used on you. (Though relies on <80 ping orso)

Weaponswap bots, kite bots, prot bots (Pretty much the same way Me/Rt's worked in HA, they can land a spirit bond against an rspike from the time between the arrows being activated to impact) and infuse bots.

The list truly is endless, and on they are so easy accesable aswell.

But ye, Anet COULD fix the problem, or even do a mass ban on the people currently using the public bots (which will be what, 95% of the botters?), but they wont...

Sankt Hallvard

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2006

20 Apr 2010 at 11:52 - 3

I hope Anet has the gift of foresight and ability to make good judgement. AI is the future and it would be a shame if they punished evolution by banning these wonderful inventions.

To err is human, humans have poor reflexes, make bad calls, are influenced by mood shifts and make irrational choices. With AI all these issues are resolved. It would make for a much more smooth and enjoyable experience for all the players if more of the environment was scripted. Human interaction is overrated.

I would love to have a healbot, a ruptbot and meleebot on my team in RA. Not having to put up with the frikkin fail players that usually end up on my team would be nothing but a blessing. In fact I would happily let a script play my character as well. After a day's work I could assess the results and rewards, things AI might not yet be optimal at doing. I'm talking about putting on new titles to pride myself with, open the zchest for fat loot and progress in the awesome title, selling zkeys to noobs, buy tormented weapons and obsidian armor, visit the zaishen menagerie, buy some costume packs, collect awesome minipets and hang out in my cool Hall of Monument.

tl;dr - Please Anet, leave them bots alone!

papryk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Nancy

The Autonomy[?????????]

20 Apr 2010 at 12:02 - 4

I was always wondering why oh why Regina and company never reply in threads like this...

Yol

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

GameAmp Guides [AMP]

E/

20 Apr 2010 at 12:07 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

I hope Anet has the gift of foresight and ability to make good judgement. AI is the future and it would be a shame if they punished evolution by banning these wonderful inventions.

To err is human, humans have poor reflexes, make bad calls, are influenced by mood shifts and make irrational choices. With AI all these issues are resolved. It would make for a much more smooth and enjoyable experience for all the players if more of the environment was scripted. Human interaction is overrated.

I would love to have a healbot, a ruptbot and meleebot on my team in RA. Not having to put up with the frikkin fail players that usually end up on my team would be nothing but a blessing. In fact I would happily let a script play my character as well. After a day's work I could assess the results and rewards, things AI might not yet be optimal at doing. I'm talking about putting on new titles to pride myself with, open the zchest for fat loot and progress in the awesome title, selling zkeys to noobs, buy tormented weapons and obsidian armor, visit the zaishen menagerie, buy some costume packs, collect awesome minipets and hang out in my cool Hall of Monument.

tl;dr - Please Anet, leave them bots alone!

So basically you're saying that PvP should be replaced by PvE......if you want to use healbots, ruptbots and meleebots, step outside kamadan with dunkoro, gwen and koss and enjoy yourself. PvP means player versus player, and bots have no place there, which is why heroes were removed from the battle isles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papryk

I was always wondering why oh why Regina and company never reply in threads like this...

Just because they don't reply, it doesn't mean they don't read them. They have dealt with bots in the past, but it is true that their track record on this hasn't been as impressive as it should have been.

Marth Reynolds

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

The Netherlands

The Lore Enforcers

Me/A

20 Apr 2010 at 12:14 - 6

sad thing is that those bots would be very able, outshining henchman by far i bet.
( and most henchman are better then random people already >..> )

anyway, if those mo/w bots can farm balth factions all alone that's a pretty big issue. Leave pc overnight and cash in 20 zaishen keys?

i wonder if anet will even step up against this, or if they're just gonna shrug it off.

damkel

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

20 Apr 2010 at 12:14 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yol

So basically you're saying that PvP should be replaced by PvE.

Pssst...over here...I don't want to embarrass you, but.. he was being sarcastic.

Yol

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

GameAmp Guides [AMP]

E/

20 Apr 2010 at 12:19 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by damkel

he was being sarcastic.

I hope so.....hard to tell sometimes considering the ridiculous cryfest from some guru posters following the removal of hero battles and heroes from pvp...

sunec

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

R/

20 Apr 2010 at 12:21 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by snikerz

Whats even more frightening is the fact this bot took our group to 25 wins without even breaking a sweat

So it would seem like those bots may be over the average monk you would otherwise be teamed up with in RA. Am I missing the point here?

Iuris

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Crazy ducks from the Forest

W/

20 Apr 2010 at 12:40 - 10

Well, they sound better than a PvE player like me, anyway, so...

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

20 Apr 2010 at 12:40 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunec

So it would seem like those bots may be over the average monk you would otherwise be teamed up with in RA. Am I missing the point here?

You mean the point of having an unfair advantage over other teams who only have human monks?

Loneliness

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

20 Apr 2010 at 12:43 - 12

Problem is when theres two or more of them in the same team which happened last night soon there be 3-4 on the same team on regular accassions

but still these bots are better than no monk or bad players, i found it fun playing mesmer just backfire them and put cover hexes on so they cant remove it and watch um die.

Myotheraccount

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

On the interweb. n__n

Desolation Lords [DL]

A/W

20 Apr 2010 at 12:53 - 13

Scary. o.o;

Anyway, botting is evil. You can catch a keyloger or something like that and lose your account. Or get banned. D:

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

20 Apr 2010 at 12:59 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by snikerz

Checks for Dishonorable effect
Checks for death
Dodges Broad Head Arrow and Lightning Orb
Great movement
Attacks nearest enemy

Makes me wonder how bad bots are in Dragon Arena these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _azunai

i'd love to have one in my group, its a pain in the ass to get the gladiator title with all those noob monks so why complaining a script if its better then an average player?

i still dont get the point

as you said, your team got a 25 win streak so you played on and on acceppting your advantage without any risk on getting banned ?! say "thanks" to the one who used the bot o0

sup botter.

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

20 Apr 2010 at 13:18 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by snikerz

Heals self and party members
Cures self and party members
Removes hex from self and party members
Energy management
Checks for Dishonorable effect
Checks for melee impact
Checks for death
Checks for Daze,Shame,Backfire,Empathy,Diversion on self
Dodges Broad Head Arrow and Lightning Orb
Avoids knockdowns
Great movement
Attacks nearest enemy
Resigns if 2 or more party members are monks (not if you won the last round)
Gets Z-Keys every 5000 balth points
Counts win + lose + Z-Keys

With bots at that level of sophistication, I wonder what A-Net can really do about it?
Introduce captcha or somesuch before each match? I can see that happening. And for PvE too.
Stick head in sand?
Remove PVP from the game? Like Hero Battles? LOL

_azunai

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2010

mine

Mo/W

20 Apr 2010 at 13:37 - 16

thx for the flowers ;P but rly whats the deal with it?
i'm personally not playing guild wars anymore i just dont get the point why you complain if you like the advantage o.0

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

20 Apr 2010 at 13:59 - 17

Unfair advantage of one team is an unfair disadvantage of the other team.

BrettM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2008

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

20 Apr 2010 at 14:03 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

In fact I would happily let a script play my character as well. After a day's work I could assess the results and rewards, things AI might not yet be optimal at doing.

lmao. But if someone ever develops an e-peen AI, the next GW may become the Game that No Living Human Has Ever Played. Set up a character, hook up the AI, and go shopping for a casket and a cemetary plot.

Beta Sprite

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Madison, WI

R/

20 Apr 2010 at 14:10 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

lmao. But if someone ever develops an e-peen AI, the next GW may become the Game that No Living Human Has Ever Played. Set up a character, hook up the AI, and go shopping for a casket and a cemetary plot.

http://progressquest.com/

cantalus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

20 Apr 2010 at 14:12 - 20

the big deal is it's cheating, if you can't see that, well

also, the reason people qq'd about hero battles and TA is they enjoyed them, i didn't play them but i see no reason not to sympathise with them, i wouldn't like it if anet decided to take HA away just because some people exploited it for monetry gain

i don't understand why people want to gain things by cheating, some sort of pathetic peer group stand around together emoting?

Centaur

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2010

[RBL]

R/

20 Apr 2010 at 14:12 - 21

@Azunai: why play Guild Wars at all if the human imperfection is such a problem to you?

Fact is, a human cannot possibly hope to achieve the same reflexes as a well written bot, so a bot will always have an unfair advantage over a human player. And that is exactly the point: using bots is not fair to your fellow human players; it's cheating.

If all you care about is win, win, win, then please go play a game where you don't have to compete against fellow humans. If you choose a game that does involve competing against (or playing with) fellow humans, then you will need to accept their imperfections and play by the rules.

Bottom line: I hope Anet will ban all players who use bots.

RhanoctJocosa

Legendary Korean

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

W/

20 Apr 2010 at 14:16 - 22

cool, more free glads =)

Sankt Hallvard

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2006

20 Apr 2010 at 14:21 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

http://progressquest.com/

lol, now THAT's what I'm talkin bout!

"Progress Quest belongs to a new breed of "fire and forget" RPG's. There is no need to interact with Progress Quest at all; it will make progress with you or without you. "

_azunai

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2010

mine

Mo/W

20 Apr 2010 at 14:28 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centaur

@Azunai: why play Guild Wars at all if the human imperfection is such a problem to you?

Fact is, a human cannot possibly hope to achieve the same reflexes as a well written bot, so a bot will always have an unfair advantage over a human player. And that is exactly the point: using bots is not fair to your fellow human players; it's cheating.

If all you care about is win, win, win, then please go play a game where you don't have to compete against fellow humans. If you choose a game that does involve competing against (or playing with) fellow humans, then you will need to accept their imperfections and play by the rules.

Bottom line: I hope Anet will ban all players who use bots.

sry man, as i said some lines before, i do NOT play guild wars anymore xD
--> if i dont play gw i cant use bots right ?

Centaur

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2010

[RBL]

R/

20 Apr 2010 at 14:33 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by _azunai

sry man, as i said some lines before, i do NOT play guild wars anymore xD
--> if i dont play gw i cant use bots right ?

In my book, creating and supplying bots to other people who do still play GW is just as bad... if not worse.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

20 Apr 2010 at 14:37 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot Narita

With bots at that level of sophistication, I wonder what A-Net can really do about it?
Introduce captcha or somesuch before each match? I can see that happening. And for PvE too.
Stick head in sand?
Remove PVP from the game? Like Hero Battles? LOL

All the current bots use a graphics.dll I think. I don't know the exact workings of it, but I have been told, by a person who creates bots himself, Anet CAN detect injections in the GW.exe process, aka the bot reading the packets and sending out new ones.

All they need to do is the pull out the banhammer once. Ban the easily 1000+ botters atm (sidefact: which are pretty much all euro's -germans mostly- lulz), no second chance, no nothing.

Watch how many people would risk botting again. I don't think so.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

20 Apr 2010 at 14:55 - 27

Did pulling out the banhammer stop PvE botting? I don't think so. The problem is similar; winning in RA makes zkeys, which can be resold.

Until (unless) ANet figures out a solution to the problem, all you can do is attack the bot at its points of weakness. You note that the bot cannot pre-Veil, and that it can detect Shame/Backfire/Diversion. What does it do when these hexes land on it? Stop casting for the duration?

If so, the solution is obvious. If not, you can exploit its response.

dr love

...is in denial

Join Date: Sep 2006

Hyperion

starcraft 2

P/Me

20 Apr 2010 at 15:28 - 28

at least people will never complain about not enough monks in RA... that's about all you can ask for.

Coverticus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

The Zodiac Elites [TZE]

Mo/

20 Apr 2010 at 15:34 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

All the current bots use a graphics.dll

This is certainly the most popular DLL around that can be injected yes, as it exposes a whole raft of powerful methods to the programmer/hacker. I admit I have looked at it from a curiosity point of view and can easily see that this DLL/source code in the hands of any competant programmer will make a mockery of any match. And I have no doubt more complex and efficient bots will surface utilising this.

Unfortunately there is no fool proof way of preventing DLL injections as there are so many ways of doing it. Also detecting the injection can be very difficult too, so I do not envy ANet at all in trying to prevent it. As Martin has already pointed out, PvE farming bots have been around for donkeys years now and they still run, all using similar techniques to how this one does (I would assume).

Blanket banning may be a solution but solid evidence again will be required - but this point scares me thinking back to the "117" and how that was handled.

Freequency

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2008

BRB

W/

20 Apr 2010 at 15:42 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

All the current bots use a graphics.dll I think. I don't know the exact workings of it, but I have been told, by a person who creates bots himself, Anet CAN detect injections in the GW.exe process, aka the bot reading the packets and sending out new ones.

All they need to do is the pull out the banhammer once. Ban the easily 1000+ botters atm (sidefact: which are pretty much all euro's -germans mostly- lulz), no second chance, no nothing.

Watch how many people would risk botting again. I don't think so.

Phail...

Better yet, we should form a clan of Elite Bot Hunters! E.B.H it could be the New Anet Bot Guild! [NABG]. We could camp out in botting locations like UW/FOW/BH ect and sit there and report players! OR create a bot to detect bots! FABULOUS IDEA!

Still Phail....

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

20 Apr 2010 at 15:51 - 31

.DLL is more trouble than you might think.

You don't have to see that broad head arrow to dodge it, once the character does the animation Texmod can change it to a bright white 255, 255, 255 and the character moves. Hammer knockdowns? No problem with the color 255, 255, 254, once that exact color of white appears they use their stances.

It's easier than you might think, playing a monk is hard and I'm surprised that the programmer went from rupt spam to flawless healer.

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

20 Apr 2010 at 16:20 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Did pulling out the banhammer stop PvE botting? I don't think so.

Remember what they did to HFFF botters? Well since the poor dears "felt compelled to bot", A-Net just gave them a slap on the wrist and let them get away with it. Not exactly a deterrent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _azunai

sry man, as i said some lines before, i do NOT play guild wars anymore xD

Cos your bot is playing it for you?

reaper with no name

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2009

FaZ

D/

20 Apr 2010 at 16:24 - 33

You're assuming that they went straight from interrupts to monking (who knows what kinds of bots they may have developed in the interim), and that there is only one. I haven't researched any of this myself, so I don't know how similar the code of all the various bots of each type are, but I imagine there are probably several versions that developed independently of one another.

Fortunately, this particular bot does not appear flawless, either (nor is that really even possible). It certainly has a better reaction time than a human, and a human with a bot will always be better than one without, but if this one works alone, then it suffers from the inability to predict spikes (though it can react to them sooner, assuming it hasn't been tricked into burning too much energy), remove conditions (this vulnerability can be easily fixed, of course), or prot people intelligently. One could also, of course, exploit the predictability of it's behavior.

However, none of this makes it any less cheating. Even if bots were so bad that only the newest of the newbies couldn't beat it, botters would still be icky scummy rotten cheaters.

I think it's worth noting, however, that if such a bot is publically available, then there are almost certainly more sophisticated ones running around that have not been released (either better monk bots or some other type of bot).

Phineas

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

UK

20 Apr 2010 at 17:20 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

.DLL is more trouble than you might think.

You don't have to see that broad head arrow to dodge it, once the character does the animation Texmod can change it to a bright white 255, 255, 255 and the character moves. Hammer knockdowns? No problem with the color 255, 255, 254, once that exact color of white appears they use their stances.

It's easier than you might think, playing a monk is hard and I'm surprised that the programmer went from rupt spam to flawless healer.

TexMod isn't going to help here if the player is looking the wrong way in first-person view. Forget the colors and TexMod, the DLL routines can identify what attacks are coming before they even appear on screen.

I used to observe some PvP when this was made popular around the end of last year, and I used to laugh at the rangers spinning on a six-pence as their bot targetted first one person then someone else, then another... Whilst I presume that there probably are players out there who can competently cycle through all targets and rupt a good percentage, I was still amazed that what looked like such obvious bot-behaviour could not be spotted by ANet. The main problem most likely is that it needs to be seen to be believed. Anet are probably not going to write something to analyse the behaviour of every player in every instance of every type of PvP because, at the end of the day, it is possible that the player IS behaving that way. It's a very sticky issue which could lead to far too many false-positives that may result in the loss of good will.

sunec

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

R/

20 Apr 2010 at 17:21 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

.DLL is more trouble than you might think.

You don't have to see that broad head arrow to dodge it, once the character does the animation Texmod can change it to a bright white 255, 255, 255 and the character moves. Hammer knockdowns? No problem with the color 255, 255, 254, once that exact color of white appears they use their stances.

It's easier than you might think, playing a monk is hard and I'm surprised that the programmer went from rupt spam to flawless healer.

What are you talking about? I don't think any bot developer with just the slightest bit of pride would ever use pixel detection.

If this reaches the point where you practically can't enter a match without ending up with 2-3 monks on your team, then it's kinda sad though - then RA would probably be left deserted quite fast.
Can't deny the fun it would be to watch 7 (since you're watching) monk bots running around for 8 full minutes though xD

Crazy monk Cro

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

CROATIA

ACID

Mo/

20 Apr 2010 at 17:23 - 36

BAN THEM ALL FFS....i cant even play this shit anymore becouse of that crap..it was only game without bots ...now its pice of crap like all others...FCK THEM UP!!

Orange Milk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Ganking, USA

Retired

R/

20 Apr 2010 at 17:28 - 37

There have been Warrior bots in RA forever, they are bad, but they are there none the less. THere is a thread in the Gladiator section some wheres a while back about them.

So IF botting is sooo popular it should'nt take much more than a Dev playing RA for a few hours to spot one, from there they can watch it and see what's what.

Jarge

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

England

Queen and Country [QC]

P/W

20 Apr 2010 at 17:55 - 38

Lolbots. Bots are easy to exploit. Rupt bots are easy to fake-out. Stance bots are easy to abuse. Dodging your BHA? Go to touch range and use a shortbow - good rangers do this anyway.
I'd rather face a bot than a good real monk tbh.
RA isn't exactly srs bsns anyway..

Paradise Lost

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2009

UK

W/

20 Apr 2010 at 17:58 - 39

Same old crusade thats been going on for 5 years. Nobody is that bothered.

jiggles

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

N/

20 Apr 2010 at 18:04 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Makes me wonder how bad bots are in Dragon Arena these days.

Thankfully they haven't evolved past running towards each team member in turn