Guild Wars 2-HoM, What to take from GW1, and what not to take.

Upier's main beef - from what I can understand - is that so much in the HoM degenerates largely into simply time spent, and not with the effort to match it.

I know but doing the same titles over again is easy, my friend got 5 chars legendary survivor in a week with the eotn brawling.

Sometimes you have to leave your comfort zone, nobody likes all the titles.

What's so hard or unbalancing about unlocking weapon and armor skins? You will still need to craft the weapons/armor in GW2, it will only be available at the same crafter everyone else is using, at the same cost everyone else is paying and with the same stats as the crap other people are using... only difference is, if you've unlocked the skin via you're HoM yours will (hopefully) be prettier.

Gosh, it doesn't have to be in anyway unbalanced to reward you with something nice for your efforts...

Comfort zone? That's not my point. My point is that one shouldn't be considered "prestigious" because he put in a lot of time either doing minuscule bullcrap or doing the same thing a thousand times (usually through an easy method).

Why is one more recognized for drinking a whole lot of booze as opposed to killing Mallyx? Why do I have to complete a zone numerous upon numerous times in order to become respected by a faction? Honestly WoW did the whole title/achievement thing better than GW could ever hope to do. Hell even most 360 games have a better and more-sense-make achievement system.

There is a title statue for killing Mallyx, the faction titles give you many options to max it, HM books, vanq, 2 pvp places and ab. WoW is a dying game and 360 is for children.

That's still pretty much ignoring what I've said, and it's essentially what I've stated in the thread:

Regardless of how you view the game of WoW or the playerbase of the 360, that's not providing much of a better stance in how what GW has in terms of titles/achievements isn't any better, if not worse.

Guild Wars encourages a lot of repetition and/or nonsense requirements. A person is not classified as a grandmaster if he doesn't find that final 0.01% of land to explore. A person is not a vanquisher if he doesn't kill 100% of enemies in every area of a continent, straight down to that one final mob that patrols around and/or randomly. A person is not fully respected by all the races of GW:EN even after killing the Destroyer.

This isn't to say I just want an easier way to earn titles to get "better lootz" in the HoM, rather that I'd prefer to have fun achieving them. "Fun" may indeed be a subjective term, but all titles should be achievable in a standard or less-than-casual setting (exceptions exist, of course, in regards to HM achievements). Count out how many titles an average player can earn in a single playthrough of all the campaigns and you'd find the problem.

Goodness, I never said Anet should have some kind of special reward for each and every title. But, Anet did say there would be rewards for achievements. Period. The purpose of the HoM is the link between GW1 achievements and GW2. It's not just so you can look at all your wonderful statues. The fact that we don't know the details is likely because it's still evolving.


I'm not one of the types who always complains about Anet on these forums, and have enjoyed all the little additions they continue to put into the game. I feel certain I won't be disappointed as I feel the developers really want to reward the players who have put a lot of time into the game. And if I'm disappointed? Well, so what.

Be realistic, Anet is not going to put anything into GW2 via Hom that will be game breaking for new players to GW2. That way you simply hack off new players. Sure, it will please returning players from GW, but there are plenty of options that can work such as unique untradeable skins, pets etc that will give prestige without giving GW players a gameplay advantage over newbs.

I'll be happy enough with that

Well you don't have to use it. But if they give me a nice Shield of thy Ancestor, for having a certain amount stuff in my HoM then id be very thankful. Would it break the game? umm hell no, woul it be nice..umm hell yeah, problem?

It doesn't bother me but I was only reminding you that you get a mini reward every year and you can put the mini in HoM to get a gw2 reward. So your already getting rewarded.

Alright so your problem is with the grind of titles, there's nothing much I say about that but take the game for what it is, the game has been out for 5 years and your asking them to change the games core mechanics to devalue anyone that did work in those 5 years and make a happy world where everyone has every title.

My response to WoW and the 360 was I don't care that they have different titles/achievements, gw is its own game and the last thing we need is people trying to turn it into a copy of another.

Well I hear a lot of people wanting nice skinned armors and shields from their HoM, but what I'm interested to know is do they simply want their armor/torm weapons which have been dedicated in their GW1 HoM. I would most likely be against this as armor and weapons are relatively cheap and too many people would have the "leet" (or not so leet) armors and torm weapons. It'd just be a bit boring don't you think?

As regards to this, I totally see where you're coming from, it does encourage tedious play and perfectionism, but it does also, on the other hand, provide very "dedicated" players with something to strive for. However, I do agree with you that more titles should be "Fun" to actually spend time on, as well as giving a sense of accomplishment and reward as the end result, because as you can see looking at this thread, their is a huge split between the people who want to have fun and the people who have become obsessed (not meaning that in a bad way) with grinding titles. Titles really have just provided an option for the classic grind MMORPG player, they have filled in for the low level cap, which could be good thing or a bad thing depending on how you look at it.

Anyhow, after all the arguments on this thread I'm sort of just resigned to what Anet do with the HoM, whatever it may be. I'll try to enjoy the game without feeling too bitter that I hadn't heard of the game when it came out so I never got the titles which gave me super-uber-cool armor in the next game. I still have a tiny bit of faith in Anet to try and remove the elitism which darkens Guild Wars 1, but if it continues I'll try my best to just ignore it to the best of my ability. I think Anet have greatly underestimated people's high hopes for the HoM, and might now face a tricky decision as to whether they go with the majority of the "casual" players or whether they go more with the "veterans" (all hail the veterans in their superiority over the average gamer *cough*).

Here's to hoping they'll spend less time worrying about how best to reawrd their players and spend more time thinking about the gameplay of Guild Wars 2.

In a sense it's the grind, yes, but it's more the fact that these aren't a lot of things achievable on a normal playthrough. Like Upier said, you have to go out of your way - sometimes for awhile - to earn them, and a lot of the time it doesn't take much effort.

I'm not saying that ANet needs to change the way titles work ASAP, I'm stating what I feel they need to keep in mind for GW2. Make them fun to get, don't treat them as "prestigious goods", and things'll be much better.

Since the way GW did it is rather shit, looking at what your peers have done is a good thing.

Any of the gw games can be beaten in a day, there's no reason to reward anyone for that other than if they do it virtually perfect (protector/guardian titles).

There not going to reward you for doing nothing. Titles are fine as they are, the grind makes it interesting and adds a level of challenge that makes you want to play an mmorpg over a simple console game.

Why?

No really that's all I have to ask: why?
Why can't ANet put in a ton of achievements earned throughout a playthrough or two, such as killing over 1000 enemies, scoring a large number of critical hits, getting a rare item, etc.? Is it bad to follow that route for GW2?

Wait. Grind = Challenge? And interesting?

I think we're all set here.

As mentioned earlier I believe it will only give us access to craft/get certain things such as the ancestrial items. I really hope nothing is just given away for free but I do think the players that have stuck with it should be rewarded with items that can normally not be obtained through regular gameplay.

To me it only makes sense from a player and from a business stand-point. It will be interesting to see how A-net is able to tempt people to purchase GW1 for the "prizes" that will become available.

I lol'd at this.

And I think what Bryant is trying to get at is that in Guild Wars 2, if titles are implemented they should be achievable as part of a fun (but still challenging) uhhh thing. So yeah. Well I get what he means anyway, and I agree with him, the title system in Guild Wars 1 sucked and seemed to basically be some sort of alternative for people who liked the grind in Runescape.

Cuz then all the 1337 players would be sad that they could not show off their amazing leetness and get a kissy from Anet for spending lots of time hugging the corners of the map and shouting at noobs in High-End PvP.

People seem to fairly obssessed with the whole "I have stuck with Anet through the entire life span of Guild Wars! Why should I play if I don't get a nice shield in the sequel! Shut up new players you didn't spend millions of pounds/dollars/euros on Guild Wars collectors edition 5 years ago so your opinion doesn't matter!". Please not that the opinions expressed in the above few sentences in speech marks were of an entirely fictitious origin and do not represent the view of any Guild Wars veteran player who may or may not have posted at some point on this thread.

However, on a more serious (or casual?) note, I see your point of view, I mean what the hell is the point in playing Guild Wars 1 if not for rewards in a different game? Hmmmm, sarcasm anyone?

AFTERTHOUGHT: A side project NEW GAME from Anet called GRIND WARS, which will contain the following exciting titles:
Runner!- for running non stop into a cliff for 36 hours straight.
Jumper!- for spamming the jump emote 1 million times
Slaughterer!- for killing every single charmable pet in the entire game
Ninja!- for rotating the screen so fast it rotates before the picture "refreshes"
Legendary hero of battleness- for doing a PvP area 1000000 times and bluntly refusing to let new players join in

Available winter 2011 for an RRP of £20000/ $40000 so you can show your dedication!

There is new (2008) information. You can update your HoM anytime after GW2 is released and transfer any new accomplishments. More details are forthcoming, er ... sometime.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena...Wars_2_Unlocks

Relevant bit underlined.

Oh yeah why don't they make a million stupid easy achievements which nobody cares about, this is guild wars not your 360.

btw the achievements you want sound like crap a SF assassin does, don't even try saying doing repetitive grind farming is better than grind titles.

Grind is the only thing that's kept this population entertained for the past 5 years, like I said if you can beat any of the gw games in a day then why does that deserve a title for something so easy? Titles are to show you did something note worthy or great in the game.

On another hand by beating any of the gw games you get a statue put in your HoM which will have a reward, so your already getting rewarded for that.

lol umad?

Thanks for posting that's good information to know.

(implying that people actually care about titles...)

Regardless, quite a few people would rather happen upon a "carrot" (i.e. 'easy achievements', carrot in " " because it's really nothing) than see it dangled in front of them for months. That or give us titles that don't show that we have a lot of spare time. A more "high-end" portion of the playerbase have gobbled up titles, sure, but they would've stayed in the game regardless.

"Grind"?? "Noteworthy!??"


That's part of the point, though: these things aren't anymore note-worthy than me sitting on my roof for a couple of weeks with my finger up my nose.

But most titles don't show that you've done anything noteworthy. Most show that you've done something mundane and trivial, and that you had enough of a lack of a real life to repeat the process thousands of times.

Seriously I'm sure any noob would take your angle and say they want insta achievements and insta respect without any of the work, sounds nice right? Well if everyone has something they why even bother making a reward for it, wheres the achievement? the prestige? To say you want tons of easy achievements means you expect to get rewarded for each one, like anet needs to make something everyone has or give something poor new gw2 players something more to cry about.

Titles are not mundane, trivial or show a lack of life, your just too slow in the head to see that people didn't get these over night, they pace themselves over time.

I can think of thousands of better things to do then play a game that hasn't gotten anything new for over 2 years, titles give the game a reason to play.

Noobs and scrubs look at the game with big eyes and see an endless world, "high-end" portion of the playerbase looks at there map and see they've explored every part of the game and killed every monster in every area.

Yeah good question, I don't see either of those in GW either...

Try again, bub.

HAHAHA! What's up Cartographer, Sweet Tooth, Lucky/Unlucky, Treasure Hunter, GW:EN, Party Animal, and Drunkard titles etc.? The whole game in itself is insanely trivial at this point.

The game being fun should be reason enough. If the game is fun then you won't need titles, if the game is boring then titles won't encourage shit. Lose-lose here.

GG Bryant Again master of copy paste out of context, maybe if you spent more time playing the game then you do crying about it then you would see it.

Wow you just named 11 out of 39 titles and the ones you used were 6 out of 8 of the only gold sink titles in the game. Cartographer and GW:EN is actually enjoyable but you wouldn't know that because you've never completed it.


A lot of the game was fun but there's a time when you have to choose between either quitting or sucking it up and trying the titles you may not have liked.

Yeah this -

"Yeah good question, I don't see either of those in GW either..."

- was a joke to reference that not a single damn thing in this game has any prestige anymore. Bots, guild selling, PvXwiki-copy-paste builds, and overall massive boosts the players have received through stupid imba have all contributed to the game being easy as hell. Pretty much everything is an indication of your free time at this stage in the game, very little of it being any indication of skill.

But that's completely off-topic. What's on-topic is that I think grind-tastic achievements are shit, and "rewarding" players for their titles is retarded. A simple stats page listing my kills/wins/everything else would be great.

Running at walls at a 45 degree angle is fun? Can't agree. Players shouldn't have to explore every pixel in an area to completely know every nook and cranny of the place. GW:EN is a quest of saminess over and over again with the option of playing through templated dungeons.

If I'm not going to have fun earning titles, why the hell would I want to earn titles? You don't have to "suck it up". If you're not enjoying it then you just stop playing. This isn't some P2P MMO where if you run out of content then the devs jipped you, it's just a game.

Alright I'm going to ignore your opinion which you made off being too scared to do titles because they might actually involve *gasp* work for one second to ask if your not doing titles/never going to do titles, what exactly do you do in the game?

"Work" in a video game. Yeah right.

When I'm actually playing it?
Depends on my mood:
-AB
-FA
-JQ
-PvE
-HM
-Missions
-Side of farming
-Sometimes Pre
-Chill with homies
-Enjoy myself.

Any/everything in the game, really. Titles aren't the "end-all-be-all", ya know.

You do know what a title is right?
It's succeeding in or completing a format of the game and from what you posted you play virtually all the formats except for most of the pvp formats. So where does the problem with you doing work start, do you not play enough? or do you fail at the formats a lot causing rage?

I think the bigger questions here are: is there anything I actually have to gain in explaining myself to you, and is it actually worth derailing the thread?
A: Not likely and no. If you *really* want to continue this - or if you just want to try to show everyone "how right you are" - then you know my inbox.

Edit: SIGH, predictable. Like I said, PM if you actually have the nuts.

That sure is a long way of saying avoiding the question lol, if you actually read anything in this thread you would see we already discussed it.

To be honest, ALL......BUT:
Minies and weapons NO TRADDABLE and NO DROPPABLE..In few words you cant do nothing with items, just for personal use of for show,and they must dont give advantages..
Titles are titles, so they dont ruin economy.
Armors are like items and minies, so no problems.

I dont understand why everyone expects so many awesome upgrades just because they played gw1, In all different games you get a cookie and play on, while everyon here qq already about something that didnt even happen, and all of this qqing started in the second then ArenaNet said the HoM will actually give you any bonus, now everyone just are blowing it out of proportion. If You were told HoM was just to save your achievements no one would write a book about it.... Anyway whatever that is they already know it and most likely done it.

Titles are fun things to work for for those people who enjoy those types of things. Right now I'm working to max my Asuran title and my Sunspear title. Sure, they aren't everyones cup of tea, but why deny it to those people who enjoy them?

They are not compulsory, if you want to play the game a certain way there is a little reward for doing it. If you want to play another way, then there might be another reward. You don't have to get annoyed that people like playing the game a certain way. If you enjoy earning titles, earn away, if you don't, no one is forcing you.

I reworked one of the comic strips from the GW2 previews for our HoM fans.



You can see all 3 of them here.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/...dux-t3624.html

Oki doki, there seems to be a little friction between Ninja Ninja and Bryant Again to say the least. Really though, Bryant Again is being misunderstood, just because titles are achievable through FUN gameplay doesn't mean that they will be piss-easy and worthless. You can have a fun title but still have it challenging enough to get a kick out of completing it. I mean really you can argue that most titles, save some the PvP ones, do not really require any skill as such, only time. For example, Vanquisher is, I admit, challenging in areas, but with a discord or sabway build and some DP removal you can easily DO the vanquish, it's just it's whether you can be bothered to spend so much time on it.

I'm not saying Anet should do anything to GW1 titles, even though they are extremely unpopular with a lot of players, I just hope they completely re-think it for GW2; if the titles were mostly the same I would quite possibly delete my character and have a silent rage for a few minutes. Then log back on and start playing.

To the best of my knowledge, no. I am in fact an intelligent young man who enjoys playing rugby, tennis and Guild Wars, I'm not sure if you got it, but the "AFTERTHOUGHT" on my last reply was not genuine, it was merely a muse.

Umm didnt they say that when gw2 is released u wont be able to get rewards through the hom anymore....

mini pets woulda been better if they were untradable all they are is free money

Ninja Ninja its obvious that you want to be highly rewarded so you can have bragging rights in GW2

I think, although I do not agree with a lot of what Ninja Ninja says, that this is a little unfair on him. He does not solely want rewards so he can feel above other players, but also just wants a bit if recognition for how much time he has dedicated to Guild Wars. However, I do agree with you in a sense as it seems people going for GWAMM often consider themselves far above the average player, and, although it is unfair to stereotype using mostly one person as an example, appear to regard the average player as 'lazy'.

People are expecting too much reward, although I suppose it is likely that many of the rewards will make you look even more 'nooby'- I mean, how fail is it that you have to wear armor and show-off rewards you didn't even earn in the actual game your playing? I'm not saying this will definitely happen, but take Kuunavangs for example, I have absolutely no interest in them as they have become slightly noobified due to the ridiculous amount of people buying factions collectors edition just to get the extra 40 ecto. And I apologize for using the word 'noob', it really is the epitome of gamer sadness, but I thought maybe the best way to get through to the elitist was to suggest rewards might make them look like what they despise the most.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena...Wars_2_Unlocks
Anet is just officially not going to be selling in the game store etc after gw2 release. You will still be able to add to HoM even after gw2 release.


That's really a debate over if you think time>skill, I think skill should be rewarded and inactivity for 5 years shouldn't be, but hey that's just my opinion.

I want fair rewards and I would really rather see opinions made by people who actually have the titles and not people who imagine the difficulty in their heads and consider themselves experts.

Again nice imagining there galbat0rixx, did you know that when you get discord or sabway build you don't insta get the title? Tell me when you vanq the droknar's forge run then I'll have respect for you.

Please explain your definition of skill to me. I vanquished both Elona and Tyria after that i just got too bored with it and told myself i could be playing other games and actually having fun and yes using discord or sabway build is pretty much instant vanquisher titles it just a matter of time.

He *did* know, actually:

Same thing in my case: Been playing since release, so not only have I already played the hell out of the game, the game has been made hella easy. There's no satisfaction to gain from a "good challenge" or being "skilled", just putting in a lot of time - and that's not terribly satisfying.

I do consider doing the droknars forge run vanq involves skill because in the middle area you have to use tactics and lure carefully because the stone summit mobs have such a high amount of monks.
Discord or Sabway build gives you the ability to vanq but your still going to encounter experiences where your going to have to do some decision making.

I disagree pvp titles aren't about putting a lot of time in, its more about how many wins you can get on average and even then the focus of pvp titles will never be about maxing them.
PvE will always be easy because your up against things which can't think and are just pre set with commands to counter a limited set of possibility's.
I think all good challenges are being rewarded by HoM already but if you have one that isnt a large amount of small ones suggest it.