Policy and morallity on exploited items - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

06 May 2010 at 15:37 - 1

Currently, I'm still in the middle of a battle between me and the support (Backed by Gaile herself) regarding the permanent banning of my acount for (ab)-using an exploit in Guild Wars.

Let me start by saying I did not abuse an exploit (And the support confirmed that they have NO indication of me abusing an exploit), but rather unknowingly bought an exploited item. (Note I got banned for only 1 item! I didn't buy hordes and hordes of duped ectos or armbraces, I bought one glitched item for a bit above street price, (No more than 20K) which now turned out to be the result of an exploit)

The reason I'm starting this thread is because I want to know if everyone feels the same way support and Gaile does. Which is guilty untill proven otherwise (Which obviously can't be proven), resulting in everyone who'se name gets mentioned in an exploit-case gets auto-banned.

I have send over 20 emails to support, and over 10 emails to Gaile herself, and you can find my most recent request regarding this issue on the following
page:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...view_Requested

Please read through it to understand the situation, and know where I'm comming from.

To quote from the previous link:

Quote:

Imagine if a person discovered an ecto dupe, and decides to sell thousands of duped ectos (At regular price) to thousands of different people who are unaware of their nature. Would it be fair to ban the thousands of innocent people who bought these seemingly legit ectos in an effort to wipe up the impact of the exploit?

Because that is morallity of the issue I'm having with support. If you read through the link, you will find that Anet (And Gaile Gray herself) tolerated those items untill policy change was made making them illegal. Do I really deserve to be banned for the (ab-)use of an exploit when the EULA, presearing.com (an official forum, just like guru) and Gaile herself either mention nothing at all about these items, or even promote/tolerate the trade of these items? (Before the policy change)

I'm really tired of this issue (I've been fighting with support for over a year now) and I really want to know what other people think of this issue.

Infanta

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2010

06 May 2010 at 15:42 - 2

My opinion is you loaded up on duped armbraces and now are complaining you can't rake in the cash for it.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

06 May 2010 at 15:53 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infanta

My opinion is you loaded up on duped armbraces and now are complaining you can't rake in the cash for it.

Even if I traded loads of duped armbraces from one acount to another whilst paying market price for them, how would I be able to rake in cash?

The least you can do is read the original post, and preferably the link I provided aswell so you have a full grasp of what is going on, instead of just grabbing for the "Reply" button trying to up your post count.

Infanta

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2010

06 May 2010 at 15:56 - 4

No, I'm not going to read pages of you crying that got caught duping and/or loading up on duped items. You broke the rules, you got banned, move on with your life.

lishi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

06 May 2010 at 15:57 - 5

I recently bought plenty of unid from asian looking names or raptor items from E/Me. So far the only reason i know for someone to run the E/Me Build to farm raptor is because the e/me bot come first.

So yea, that is a good question to ask.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

06 May 2010 at 16:01 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

I recently bought plenty of unid from asian looking name or raptor items from E/Me. So far the only reason i know for someone to run the E/Me Build to farm raptor is because the e/me bot come first.

So yea, that is a good question to ask.

Atleast you understand the issue, unlike other trolls posting here

So my point is:

If an item is concidered perfectly legal (Duped items seem perfectly legal to anyone who is not aware of those items) and if Anet specifically mentioned those items as being tolerated before (In Pre-Searing), is it justifiable to ban people who are unaware of their nature for it?

This obviously also applies to Chinese farmbots aswell. I understand Anet tries to keep the influx of these illegal items in check, but does it have to come at the cost of innocent people getting banned? (Which I feel I have, because I was unaware I bought an exploited items, even after checking the EULA, official forums and Gaile's statements I came to the conclusion it was OK to be those items)

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

06 May 2010 at 16:05 - 7

I can somewhat relate, you got banned from Guild Wars for breaking the rules and now you regret it.

I agree, give him the account back, destroy the exploited items and call it done deal.

Sure you broke the rules, but going through all this trouble for your account you probably won't break them again.

Give the account back, lesson learned. Simple.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

06 May 2010 at 16:06 - 8

So, wait, I'm confused.

You bought a post-sear item in pre-sear that someone exploited the bug to get.

Then, when finding out the new policy, you took that character to post. And then you were banned?

Is that right?

Rikimaru

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

R/

06 May 2010 at 16:07 - 9

Wow, and it was a retroactive ban after a policy change? Harsh

Anyway, asking for sympathy here is pointless, the average Guru poster has no soul. They really wouldn't be able to help you even if they did.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

06 May 2010 at 16:12 - 10

@ Zodiac:

Thx for your support

but,

I never knowingly broke the Guild Wars rules. Never did I do an action thinking: "This will get me banned if discovered", all I did was buy an item which afterwards turned out to be the result of an exploit. Obviously, I do regret it, but given the situation, there was no way for me to know that was an exploited item.

Also, the item in question is already destroyed, and the character is already removed from the "crime scene". Gaile made a statement specifically regarding this issue, asking people to delete the glitch items and move the characters away from Pre-Searing.

This is exactly what I did, and still I got banned. My beef is with the fact that I did nothing illegal in the first place (Those items were not concidered illegal before the policy change), but when I did my utter best to abide by the new rules, I still got banned, despite doing everything Gaile herself said would solve the issue.

On top of that, hundreds of other people did exactly the same thing with exactly the same mindset. Yet I am one of the few people that got banned, and the others walk free. I don't want to report those other people, because I believe we are all in the right.

I'm not asking for sympathy really (There is no doubt about this issue for me. I dind't break the EULA, I got banned for the wrong reasons, and the support is too stubborn to come back on their call), I was just wondering what everyone else thought of this issue.

Voodoo Rage

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sacramento, CA

Geezers

R/

06 May 2010 at 16:13 - 11

I'm a little unclear what your specific offense was. Did you buy a duped item or did you utilize a guild hall exploit to get items into Pre-searing? Either way I don't think a ban was justified.

I think there a lot of exploits in this game that we all use on a regular basis. How about all the people who are completing EotN missions and vanquishes by flagging heroes into unspawned areas? Is that not an exploit? How about having someone ferry your level 2 character to the Consulate docks so you can cheat and get maximum armor to breeze through the first part of Nightfall? I'm not saying I have any problem with any of those things but they are indeed methods of exploiting the game. Obviously, I can see someone actively duplicating an item deserving a ban but I think a lot of these bans are more from Anet being too lazy to address the root of the problem or taking the time to attempt to revert a "tainted" account.

Seriously, what "taints" the game more, people getting some runes in pre-searing or Shadowform?

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

06 May 2010 at 16:25 - 12

I feel like we're not hearing the whole story here.

Killed is claiming that he only bought an exploited item, which we know others who haven't been banned for that. Gaile seems to be under the impression that he brought the exploited item into pre-sear himself. And considering that they can actually look at those things (chat logs, etc.) I have a feeling we may be getting lied to.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

06 May 2010 at 16:26 - 13

In general I think banning people for exploits is retarded for exactly this reason. The line is just to gray in a world where people do everything they can to maximize rewards and minimize grind time to get them. Ban people for repeated greifing, ban people for actively hacking your client or running external programs like bots. Anything else is the designers damn responsibility to fix. Or are we going to start banning everyone that runs the back way in Gyala?

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

06 May 2010 at 16:28 - 14

Basically, some one used the old travel exploit to sell an item to him in Pre-searing. Identifying an exploit as a exploit and nothing else he got banned.
To top that off, the policy changed AFTER he broken the rules and got banned.

It would be like making mint ice cream illegal, and imprison everyone he has ever eaten mint ice cream. Except the rule wasn't established until a week later.

What he isn't saying:

Quote:

OMFG I GOT BANNED LOLWUT?!1 I SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN BANNED LOLWTFBBQ!!11!1

What he is saying:

Quote:

I bought a post-searing item from a fansite to use in pre-searing, it was wrong and more than happy to fix it. Yet the policy got me banned by breaking rules that didn't exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Good point, could be lying

Killed is claiming that he only bought an exploited item, which we know others who haven't been banned for that. Gaile seems to be under the impression that he brought the exploited item into pre-sear himself. And considering that they can actually look at those things (chat logs, etc.) I have a feeling we may be getting lied to.

Even if he was lying, personally I would give the account back. Sure what he did was wrong, but it's nothing compared to hacking 20 stacks of armbraces and saying "I'm sorry I broke the rules" bull crap. He brought a character/bought an item in pre-searing, that's about it, nothing game breaking.

The check list:
Regret even doing it?
Check.
Trying to fix it, with a wall of text attack?
Check.
Never exploit again, after knowing the feeling of losing everything.
Check.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

06 May 2010 at 16:31 - 15

@OP: Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that someone who has posted on here enough to get the forum tag: "Forge Runner" doesn't know what's in Pre and what's in Post. I also find it shady that you won't say specifically what happened. It is all very vague language you are using.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

06 May 2010 at 16:34 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

I feel like we're not hearing the whole story here.

Killed is claiming that he only bought an exploited item, which we know others who haven't been banned for that. Gaile seems to be under the impression that he brought the exploited item into pre-sear himself. And considering that they can actually look at those things (chat logs, etc.) I have a feeling we may be getting lied to.

Obviously, I must have traded with an exploiter when I bought the item. Thats common sense in person, BUT I never used a third party program to create an exploit. (up to this day, I still don't exactly know how the glitch work, I think it had something to do packet sniffing. -The same way interrupt bots work-)

However, I DID ask the support what exact evidence they had that I hacked the game (Which I didn't) and in one of the 20 emails orso they send back, they admitted that whilst I didn't directly hack the game, I still abused the exploit by buying an exploited item.

So they have already admitted they know I dind't hack the game, however they feel that simply buying exploited items, despite the item seeming perfectly legal, is worth a ban.

I also recently send an email to the german support (because the american support fully ignores my emails), and they said they could NOT look back into the records, because they had been tampered with. I can quote directly from that mail (which I recieved yesterday) that my chat logs/records have been removed/modified by someone else and they could not check wether or not I hacked the game.

@ Jayzilla:

To avoid repition, I instead posted the link. Read the wiki link to understand the full situation. That contains all the info you need to know. I bought a Pre-Searing item which under the policy at that time was 'tolerated', yet 7-14 days later suddenly was concidered illegal. Even then, Gaile herself said that simply removing the item and character away from Pre-Searing would be enough to solve the issue, which is exactly what I did, yet I still got banned.

I asked them to delete the character instead of permanent banning me, but for some reason that wasn't possible...

NerfHerder

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2010

06 May 2010 at 16:36 - 17

Did you have a screenshot of the transaction?

And did you know they can pull up chat logs?

This post smells kinda fishy, your not giving us many details. I gotta side with gail until I know more. Id think you would get a warning or suspension first. Whatever it is you did they must have some serious proof for a perma ban. My only advice is suck it up and drive on. Buy another account its like $24 bucks at Amazon, for all expansions. Just be more careful next time. Hopefully they caught the person that sold it to you.

EDIT- Did the person selling say something like WTS exploited "wtvr" or did he mention it was hacked?

Mangione

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

06 May 2010 at 16:41 - 18

So...
let me understand this:
1) you bought a post-searing item in pre.
2) You destroyed the item when you came to knew that it was forbidden to have it in pre.
3) You moved your character to post.
4) You were banned.

This while Gayle wrote here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

If you have a character whose skills were impacted by the use of Post-Searing tomes, you need to move that character to Post-Searing immediately. If you have an item, weapon, rune, tome, or anything else from Post-Searing â€“ no matter when you acquired it or when it appeared in Pre-Searing â€“ that item or weapon needs to be deleted or moved to Post-Searing right away.

There's nowhere mention of bans or whatever.

In my opinion, this ban is completely absurd.
Assuming you didn't use an exploit to bring the item in pre, and assuming that you didn't know you weren't supposed to have the item, once the item was removed, and the character relocated, there was no reason to punish you (after all, not only you lost the item, and got out of pre, you probably lost a good amount of gold to the seller).

If that is the case, I feel Anet has made a big mistake on you.

On the other hand, Anet is weird when it comes to rules (and enforcing them).
Match manipulation (Red Resigns and the conga guild to mention a couple) seem to me far heavier offences, as the abusers reaped benefits, in terms of titles, zkeys ($$$) and were left untouched anyway.
I remember the "build your henchman" contest. One rule was that builds HAD TO BE not published anywhere, unique. Then PvX won.
The "Halloween Contest". The tattoo won. Unless the guy with the tattoo was able to paint it on his back by himself, that was made by SOMEONE ELSE. An yet it won anyway.
The game is full of botters, they farm, they pvp... and they stay there untouched.

All this is perfectly fine by Anet.

But hey, the dude had a glitched item. BAN HIM.

EDIT:
@Killed
You explained further in detail while I was writing my post.
Some of the points have been clarified.

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

06 May 2010 at 16:45 - 19

you got played. the person selling the glitch item was an anet employee and you fell for the trap. its all part of anet's business plan to get people to buy more copies of their game.

seriously though, i won't give my opinion until i know what exactly the 'glitched' item is. is there a reason your not being upfront and direct about it?

also, i don't ever recall of a ban being lifted. anet is most likely wrong, but since the ban was already in place, they are unable to remove the ban and therefore will refuse to admit that they were wrong.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

06 May 2010 at 16:46 - 20

I didn't take a screenshot of the transaction, because again at that time nothing seemed fishy. I wasn't buying 100 stacks of armbraces for 10K. I was buying a tome in Pre-Searing, after reading on the offical forum it was ok to trade these. (Again, this was before the policy change. This was still when glitched items in Pre-Searing got tolerated)

I really don't know what other details ppl want?

It's about the morality of the issue:

Does a person who is no in way involved in an exploit deserve to be banned after buying an exploited item. (For a normal price)

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

06 May 2010 at 16:50 - 21

Agreed...it feels as if you're leaving out some relavent details. Seems lucky all of your accounts didn't get the bans seeing that you ask for proof of wrong doing and they go to look and somehow the relating logs have been hacked.

An analogy would be if I were to buy a stereo out of a truck on 41st street. Do I know for a fact it is illegal? Not really. Should I know it is illegal? Yes. Even though I did not steal the stereos, am I guilty? Yes. If I get arrested do they have just cause to do so? Yes. Does my defense of not knowing it was illegal hold water? No. If I ask they to go find the stereo, and they find that it has been burned, does that make me look even more guilty? Yes. Are people going to feel sorry for me when I cry about false charges/arrest? No.

Long of the short...if something seems off/wrong/immoral, you probably shouldn't participate in it.

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

06 May 2010 at 16:51 - 22

So when did you buy the tome. When did you get banned? That link to presearing.com describes events in 2007. Did you wait for 3 years to appeal a ban?

Mora

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2006

06 May 2010 at 17:01 - 23

Your timing seems a bit off.

Gaile posted on the pre-searing forums to clarify on November 15, 2007.
You posted here and wiki on May 06, 2010.
You claim you contacted support a few months ago.

"that I, who only bought 1 item, got permnanently banned a year after the facts"

So, you bought it in 2007, got banned in 2008, and contact/post in 2010?

If Gaile claims she remembers it, the report was recent. I doubt your case was so important that she remembers after 2-3 years.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

06 May 2010 at 17:04 - 24

@Essence,

I could agree with your analogy, as long as you change it to this:

Quote:

An analogy would be if I were to buy a stereo out of a truck on 41st street. On the street corner, there is a police office with a sign saying that all the stuff out of the truck is tolerated *you wont go to jail for buying it*. Do I know for a fact it is illegal? Not really, but if the police themselves say it's ok to buy them... Should I know it is illegal? No, because the current policy made by the authority (the police) seems to tolerate it. Even though I did not steal the stereos, am I guilty? Yes, at the end of the day I did buy an exploited item. But I dind't do it knowingly. Even after checking the authorities for anwsers.

Gaile herself said they wouldn't ban for these items. Even after the policy, there was no mention of banning whatsoever (unless you were directly involved in the exploit obviously).

@ Arduin,

I think I got banned about a year and half ago (not exactly sure anymore). I bought the item 1-2 weeks BEFORE the policy change.

To give a quick, rough timeline:

7-14 days before the policy changes: Influx of new items into Pre-Searing. People wonder what the hell is going on, everyone is being very cautious.
Within the next days, the general consensus becomes: Either a new update, or the remnants of an old exploit (someone left his pre-searing character in the guild hall during the old glitch). When a new section on the offical fansite gets opened titled: 'Exotic Items', promoting the trade of these new items, everyone assumes they were safe. (People were still cautious, but in now way did people think they would get banned)
Hundreds of people buy and sell tomes, green NF items, etc...

Policy changes: Gaile releases the new info regarding these items. I move my character to post Searing straight away. (Could have been a few days before or after, don't remember exactly)

Over a year after the policy changes: I get banned for abusing an in-game exploit. Having completely forgotten about the Pre-Searing fiasco, I send an email requestion more information.

Then in the next months/years (So about 1.5 years now?) I've been sending emails to support requesting the unbanning of my acount.

So I appealed straight away when I was banned, but I got banned over a year after the commited 'crimes'... And that was been going on untill now...

I first contacted Gaile on the first of Oktober 2009 I think. (A few days before my birthday), this was already after a year of struggling with support...

SlipknotOFA

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Newport Ky

Order Of Fallen Angels

Mo/Me

06 May 2010 at 17:04 - 25

Mama said there willl be days like thissss mama said mama said lol....

NerfHerder

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2010

06 May 2010 at 17:04 - 26

Well, now that I know it was a tome, thats not something everyone knows you cant get in pre. Changes things a bit. Even though thats common knowledge to me, I dont expect anyone else to know that. If thats the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then yeah you got the raw end of the deal. Im actually surpised it wasnt just a 3 day suspension. Thats one hell of a punishment.

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

06 May 2010 at 17:10 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I think I got banned about a year and half ago (not exactly sure anymore). I bought the item 1-2 weeks BEFORE the policy change.

----

So I appealed straight away when I was banned, but I got banned over a year after the commited 'crimes'... And that was been going on untill now...

I first contacted Gaile on the first of Oktober 2009 I think. (A few days before my birthday), this was already after a year of struggling with support...

If you are truthful in your story, Killed u man, I'd say Anet was too harsh in banning you.

However, it is not my place to be the judge on this

dsielschott

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

KURZ

W/Mo

06 May 2010 at 17:10 - 28

As you have been told many times, we will not reinstate your account. There is nothing to "figure out." You used an exploit; the account is forever tainted and it will remain closed. -- Gaile 01:26, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

ok I don't care what the policy said... think about it... buying a tome in pre.... that right there should tell u that this is not a good idea...... you should have thought to yourself, "hey wait a min. they dont drop in pre, I wonder how they got it?"

and because you KNEW that tomes didnt drop in pre you bought it for a MUCH HIGHER price.... again that means that you knew something was up....

and if you want to say the rules didnt say anything about it again cause apparently thats all you have going for u... then look at it this way... ..... marijoana is illegal, however I can still get it, I know I am not allowed to but I still can and unless I get caught then I am alright.... before the stuff was illegal people had it everywhere and when the law changed and you still had it you still got in trouble for the purchase u made before the law changed.....

SOOOOOO basically what im sayin is: - you are mad that you knowing bought an item that you shouldn't have.... you got caught, you got in trouble, and now you want to appeal the decision because "the rules didnt say anything about it"......

my ONE response to that: you knew it wasnt supposed to be there and u knew they had to use an exploit to get it there.... so sorry bad judgment call on buyin the item but you did and you should get punished for it..... sorry just my feelings

@ Nerf Hearder

if he bought the item at 20k above post searing going rate then he KNEW WITHOUT A DOUBT that the item shouldnt be in pre.....

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

06 May 2010 at 17:12 - 29

If there's one last thing I should mention:

The reason I bought the tome in the first place, was to get a hard rez in pre in order to get Legendary survivor and LDoA. (Something which was sought after)

I admit that this was however unique, because noone else achieved this before.

BUT one of the first things I suggested to the support/Gaile was to delete the character in question (I didn't upload anything to HoM). On top of that, with HoM being acount-wide now, there shouldn't be any issues whatsoever.

Edit:

@ Upier:

Quote:

14. TERMINATION

(a) NC Interactive reserves the right to suspend or terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or willfully infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game(s) as described in the Rules of Conduct.

Should NC Interactive decide to suspend or terminate this Agreement with a User under any circumstances, the User will lose access to your Account.

(b) You agree that if the Service or your Account is suspended, terminated or cancelled for any reason or length of time, you are not entitled to any reimbursement or refund of any fees or unused access time.

I never broke the rules. The rules changed, and I broke the new rules in the past. As someone said, it was a retro-active breach, and there was nothing I could have done to prevent it.

It's as much as saying people who got run from Beacons Perch to Drok's should get perm banned if anet changed their policy saying it was not allowed anymore. Can you imagine everyone getting banned now for getting run to Drok's weeks/years ago when it was still concidered legal at that time?

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

06 May 2010 at 17:12 - 30

http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...-agreement.php

Quote:

14. TERMINATION

(a) NC Interactive reserves the right to suspend or terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or willfully infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game(s) as described in the Rules of Conduct.

Should NC Interactive decide to suspend or terminate this Agreement with a User under any circumstances, the User will lose access to your Account.

(b) You agree that if the Service or your Account is suspended, terminated or cancelled for any reason or length of time, you are not entitled to any reimbursement or refund of any fees or unused access time.

But since you are asking for OUR, completely irrelevant, opinion:
You sound like a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO, so I'll side with A.Net on this.

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

06 May 2010 at 17:13 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by killed u man

Over a year after the policy changes: I get banned for abusing an in-game exploit. Having completely forgotten about the Pre-Searing fiasco, I send an email requestion more information.

i'm glad to hear that in 2011, all the 2010 gw botters will be banned. *sigh of relief* gw is saved.

fail moar anet.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

06 May 2010 at 17:23 - 32

I believe they waited too long to ban you, banning for something like this should be done in a timely fashion (dont care if you did what you did or not---waiting more than a few months to ban people is wrong). Should your account be terminated, no, and since you have been out for what over a year now, I believe that you have served your ban time.

only MY opinion.

Wicked Sweet

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

Cyberspace

Gamer Tactics[WANK]

E/

06 May 2010 at 17:25 - 33

I remember reading a post on presearing forums about another person that got a ban for having a tome on his account and gaile called him on the phone and he got his account back so it is not like they have never unbanned people. (I myself got a permaban for farming too much in bergen hotsprings because they thought i was a bot and after 2 weeks of looking at my account they relized that I just have no life and gave me my account back)

coil

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

06 May 2010 at 17:32 - 34

if the tome has been removed and the title/advancement removed and the char moved to post, where is the issue here?

you can't expect every player to know that tomes aren't allowed in presearing. that said anet shouldnt be biased on certain cases if its an assumed "veteran player". all players should be treated equally, be it a completely new player or an alpha beta tester. and since you can't expect a person who just installed to know that tomes aren't allowed in pre, you shouldn't hold anyone else to any higher a standard.

but that's all meaningless when you have ex-dupers that never got banned (including whatever they hoarded from duping) and characters still remaining in game that have both LDOA and Legendary survivor.

imo, anet can't justify a perma ban on a person who bought a tome until anet perma bans the above. as long as the above are still in game, who gives a shit if you bought a tome which was later destroyed and you're out of pre with no double title.

maybe if gaile weren't wasting her time with this support ticket she could get to all those tickets where people forgot their gw password and can't change it from their master account so they can't work on their accounts !! o wait.....

Tullzinski

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Trying to stay out of Ryuk's Death Note

N/R

06 May 2010 at 17:32 - 35

Killed, IMO the time delay involved is the issue.

However there was no timeline provided for in the policy, ANET is using its own discretion on it and therefore you are screwed.

Really do not see the harm in unbanning the account, since it was moved to post. Maybe ANET is just pissed at you for some other things? Campaign to flood GW1 with bots perhaps? Which is working very nicely by the way as evidenced by the other thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

If there's one last thing I should mention:

The reason I bought the tome in the first place, was to get a hard rez in pre in order to get Legendary survivor and LDoA. (Something which was sought after)

I believe this is never possible anyway. A hard res would not enable you to get survivor, since once you die survivor is done.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

06 May 2010 at 17:37 - 36

The problem with ANet's policies on the banhammer has always been non-transparency.

If you read the EULA, it basically reserves to ANet the right to terminate your service for any reason whatsoever. From the player's perspective, this is problematic. I would like to spend my in-game time efficiently and adjust my behavior in response to changing conditions, but ANet reserves the right to determine that this week's "efficient" behavior is an exploit and ban me for it.

Some cases are obviously "exploits" and against the rules, but the obvious cases are not always enforced due to costs. Some cases are gray areas, and in those cases ANet's "common sense" test is no test at all. It posits some universal moral code that we all subscribe to, but I can't come up with such a code that covers anything other than murder. Even obvious items like theft, rape and adultery have been defined differently by various cultures.

It should not be surprising to you that arbitrary and capricious acts occur, given an arbitrary and capricious standard and the lack of an outside appeals process. This is likely to continue, as Legal is almost certainly behind the lack of transparency.

In your specific case, if the facts are as you have stated then this is a case of an ex post facto law specifically prohibited by Article 1 of the U.S. Constitution, and ANet's ethnocentric "common sense" test should therefore indicate that their action is unjust.

Since this is obvious, it does beg the question of whether the facts are in fact as you have stated. Hence the skepticism of some posters.

t00115577

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/

06 May 2010 at 17:41 - 37

Ignorance is not a valid defence, you knew that you shouldnt be able to get a tome in pre. Your an experienced player and pretending that you didnt know it was hacked is just stupid.

You broke the rules, you got punished, live with it.

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

06 May 2010 at 17:51 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I never broke the rules.

But you did.

Also in these kinds of cases we usually aren't getting the full story.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

06 May 2010 at 18:01 - 39

The thing is I don't believe I did. That's also the point of this thread.

I bought an exploited item which I dind't know was exploited. Sure, the item wasn't naturally in Pre-Searing, but neither were many other items, of which Anet specifically said they tolerate them (GH glitch).

The point here being that everything indicated that the item was fine, just like the next XX ectos you buy in ToA. There had been a policy before which clearly stated that Anet does not ban for these items, and frankly simply doesn't care. (Aka tolerate)

It was only after the policy changes it became clear these items were both hack and thus illegal. But even then there was no wording of banning people, which is completely fair, because why ban people for buying items they don't know were exploited?

I never broke any rule. The rules changes after I had bought the item.

On top of that, I thought I was in the clear. For one and a half year, things went fine. I got no emails from support, I obviously did not send in any emails myself, and I completely abided by Gaile's very own new policy.
Yet then I still got banned.

What should I have done then? Not having bought the item is not an option, because again, the item was not concidered illegal at that time. (Not by the EULA, not by Anet, not by Presearing.com and not by Gaile Gray herself)

I did my very best to do what Gaile told us to. I deleted the item, I moved the character to post-searing and thats it.

And was a perm ban the best and only option for this? Was deleting the character, or simply giving me a temp ban, or even a warning not good enough? (Remember, this was already a year after the facts)

untitled2005

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

06 May 2010 at 18:18 - 40

If you just want some sympathy votes, you should find plenty here. However, as an average gamer, I am 100% for ANET to take a ZERO tolerance stance against any exploit including buying exploited items. No ifs, buts, maybes, a blanket policy is needed to ensure the integrity of the greater player community.

It also looks to me that you knowingly bought the exploited tome. You were more than an average game since you were after titles such as Legendary survivor and LDoA. If something looks too good to be true, it is usually another scam. You just made a bad judgment. Accept it and move over.