Players who got banned get their new accounts banned too. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

28 May 2010 at 22:25 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Vodka-

Either way, even if the point here is to ban additional accounts bought by the 'banned', the least ANET could do is restrict them from buying a new account, rather than taking their money and screwing them over afterward.

Another lesson learned the hard way then

SunfallE

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2009

West Texas

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

R/Rt

28 May 2010 at 22:27 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Vodka-

Either way, even if the point here is to ban additional accounts bought by the 'banned', the least ANET could do is restrict them from buying a new account, rather than taking their money and screwing them over afterward.

This is assuming that none of the money is refunded. I think I'll wait on more official news before I make that assumption.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

28 May 2010 at 22:28 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

Yes they should fix the system so it just doesn't let you purchase it. People need to realize though if you're going down in a bot sweep that's it. Don't try to buy the game again.

The EULA doesn't say so.

Former Members can buy another account, but, if they get caught doing it, they may suspend these accounts as well:

Quote:

NC Interactive reserves the right to use any means necessary, including those in section 4(j), to identify and remove Former Members.

(j) Related Accounts. If NC Interactive terminates an Account, NC Interactive may terminate any other Accounts that share the same member name, phone number, email address, postal address, Internet Protocol address, or credit card number with the terminated Account.

I was involved in the mass-ban for payment fraud last year. My account was incorrectly banned for a glitch with the payment system of the Online Store. While waiting for the ban to get lifted, I accessed the service using my secondary account.

I admitedly didn't know about the Related Account rules and could have been banned again pretty much in every moment. They weren't lying in wait to ban my secondary account tough.

It's not necessarily an istantaneous reaction. Likely these new accounts got terminated that soon because of an IP ban...

-Vodka-

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2009

UK

Mo/

28 May 2010 at 22:30 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowerpoke

Another lesson learned the hard way then

I haven't been banned, I'm as much against botters as the next guy. However, this seems to be either a programming mistake, or extreme vengeance from ANET. Yes, punish botters in-game, but I disagree with punishing them to the extent that they ban newly purchased accounts right from the get-go. It seems slightly illegal, which leads me to believe that this is the result of erroneous programming (or some guy making it all up).

Just my two cents anyhow.

Ildanach

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2010

Watchers of the Way

W/

28 May 2010 at 22:32 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Vodka-

Either way, even if the point here is to ban additional accounts bought by the 'banned', the least ANET could do is restrict them from buying a new account, rather than taking their money and screwing them over afterward.

Well, the botters were screwing over the community for years, sounds like poetic justice to me.

I also see no reason why A.Net should not sell the games the customer knows he is banned. Think of it another way, said botter wants to buy his friend the game, no doubt he would be just as angry he could not purchase it. Also, even if the botter was refused to purchase from NC Soft, I guarantee they would go use ebay or amazon or something instead.

I just wonder if the bans will carry over to GW2.

-Vodka-

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2009

UK

Mo/

28 May 2010 at 22:37 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ildanach

Well, the botters were screwing over the community for years, sounds like poetic justice to me.

I also see no reason why A.Net should not sell the games the customer knows he is banned. Think of it another way, said botter wants to buy his friend the game, no doubt he would be just as angry he could not purchase it. Also, even if the botter was refused to purchase from NC Soft, I guarantee they would go use ebay or amazon or something instead.

I just wonder if the bans will carry over to GW2.

Like I said, ANET should state "Sorry you are unable to buy a new account as you have previously been banned". Just as much justice if you ask me

As far as GW2 is concerned, yes it would be nice if they were also banned from that, but something tells me that it would either be too much effort on ANET's part in terms of programming, or they would give all the banned players a second chance.

Of course, I believe that banned GW1 accounts will not be able to 'link' with GW2, but I assume here you are talking about players (IP addresses), rather than accounts.

-Vodka-

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2009

UK

Mo/

28 May 2010 at 22:40 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunfallE

This is assuming that none of the money is refunded. I think I'll wait on more official news before I make that assumption.

That would be fair enough in my eyes. Screw them from playing the game, but I don't think anyone should be screwed from their 'IRL' money...

belshazaarswrath

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

AMP

28 May 2010 at 22:48 - 48

o.0 Just change your ip pay with a gift card and bullshit all your information. Although it's pretty screwed up that instead of declining service at first they are taking the money then declining service. Whatever the rules of the game say I'm pretty sure that's illegal...

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

28 May 2010 at 22:50 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Vodka-

Of course, I believe that banned GW1 accounts will not be able to 'link' with GW2,

I believe that is correct, based on James Phinney's recent statement on the ANet blog.

Quote:

Account termination means losing not only everything you’ve built up in Guild Wars, but losing the ability to have those accomplishments recognized in Guild Wars 2.

http://www.arena.net/blog/design-dir...t-account-bans

One way to interpret that is that GW2 accounts may not be linked to terminated GW1 accounts. Another possibility is that players may be forbidden from purchasing or playing GW2, or subject to possible termination.

headlesshobbs

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

28 May 2010 at 22:52 - 50

Unless you know how to close a loophole, I don't think there's anything you can do about it. The money wires thru first, then the account info finally goes in the servers which automatically runs back to the account which was banned, thus following EULA.

Stop sending money, period.

-Vodka-

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2009

UK

Mo/

28 May 2010 at 22:56 - 51

All ANET would need to do is do a check on the IP address status before the transaction is confirmed. If the account is banned then break from the transaction and all is good..Nobody gets scammed, Tyria doesn't receive more botters

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

28 May 2010 at 23:00 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trancey

ANet is digging their selves into a deeper hole day by day.

Looks like they're digging their way out of a hole if you ask me. Bots had ruined the game for a lot of honest players.

As for these new accounts being banned, I'm sure Anet just did a follow-up sweep and saw that the cheaters had other accounts for them to ban. They should have a mechanism in place to deny new purchases. I'm bet if the cheater emails them and tells them what happened that they'd reimburse them (probably).

Of course this whole mess could have been avoided by people not cheating in the first place.

William C Wallace

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

Don't Fear The Creeper [BuD]

W/E

28 May 2010 at 23:02 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by niek2004

You know that 90% of the people who got banned for PvP botting just logged in on an alt the next day, right?

Not true, Any one I ever heard of getting banned for botting in PvP got any and all alts banned as well.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

28 May 2010 at 23:02 - 54

If Anet actually allowed botters to buy a new acount, only to ban em an hour afterwards, that is downright wrong.

Banning botters who deserve to be banned is one thing.

Stealing their money in real life is another.

I couldn't care less if botters bought new acounts, as long as they abide by the rules, and simply get banned again if they bot. However, denying them to even play, but still taking their money is retarded.

Actually, this seems such a scam, I doubt it's real. Unless you can post paypal/Credit card proof that you did purchase another game this week, aswell as proof that it got banned (Support ticket with date), I don't buy this.

NCSoft is low (NCSoft handles the acounts), lazy, a bunch of RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOtards, but this is simply too low to be true, even if we're talking about NCSoft...

sixdartbart

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Peace Machine GRRR [DiE]

W/N

28 May 2010 at 23:03 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

o.0 Just change your ip pay with a gift card and bullshit all your information.

It seems they have that covered too.

Quote:

(g) Registration Obligations. You agree to provide true, accurate, current and complete information about yourself as prompted by the Service's registration form ("Registration Data") and maintain and promptly update the Registration Data to keep it true, accurate, current and complete.

If you provide any information that is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, or NC Interactive has reasonable grounds to suspect that such information is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, NC Interactive has the right to suspend or terminate your Account and refuse any and all current or future use of the Service.

Aside from them taking online sales or not the rules they have in place can prevent people from buying the game at a store to try and get around being banned and if any of the people trying to get around it took the time to read what they are agreeing to they would save themselves these problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

.I couldn't care less if botters bought new acounts, as long as they abide by the rules, and simply get banned again if they bot.

And if you were running the company this would matter, however NCsoft has rules in place contrary to this opinion and like it or not that is the ruleset players will have to follow.

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

28 May 2010 at 23:04 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by William C Wallace

Not true, Any one I ever heard of getting banned for botting in PvP got any and all alts banned as well.

So you're saying you know everything about everyone who plays then?

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

28 May 2010 at 23:05 - 57

I think it's fine for them to ban the new accounts, these people need to learn that they got defeated and should not come back. But Anet really should refuse the charge and if not the card holder needs to contact their CC company and deny the charge as a product they paid for and did not receive.

amaretto creme

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2008

PA

Drunken Devil Dawgs [USMC]

E/

28 May 2010 at 23:13 - 58

Now, even though I think it's a little crazy that the charges are going through (which you can stop payment bla bla bla whatever), I will also say this. These people apparently refused to read the terms they were agreeing to, already by botting, do you think they'd read it now and realize they AREN'T allowed to get another account and use it? It is, in all honesty, their fault they are losing their money, as it CLEARLY states that other accounts they purchase will be banned on the spot if they figure out it is linked to another banned account. It is not ANet's or NCSoft's fault these people AREN'T READING the rules they set out for using their game.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

28 May 2010 at 23:14 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

The EULA doesn't say so.

Doesn't neccesarily matter before a judge whats in there, status of EULA's is flaky at best - and worthless were I live.

There's the question if you can refer to an agreement that has been terminated.

And, well, if they have no intention to keep their responsibilities in the sale, they shoudl simply not sell.

Quote:

It's not necessarily an istantaneous reaction. Likely these new accounts got terminated that soon because of an IP ban...

That would be even worse, (a) IP's do not reliably associate one-on-one with people and (b) if they don't intend to deliver the goods, they should not accept the payment.

-Vodka-

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2009

UK

Mo/

28 May 2010 at 23:18 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

I think it's fine for them to ban the new accounts, these people need to learn that they got defeated and should not come back. But Anet really should refuse the charge and if not the card holder needs to contact their CC company and deny the charge as a product they paid for and did not receive.

This.

12 chars.

Bristlebane

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mo/

28 May 2010 at 23:23 - 61

It may be shady, but it seems legal to me. If you don't then there's really nothing you can do. What would you say to your lawyer? "Yes I agreed to the rules, but I never read them"

Besides.. all this bot hunting have costed Anet time and money, which they could have used on developing GW2 instead. If they take a little money back (legally) from botters who are stupid enough to create new accounts, then it's good for the rest of us as they're indirectly helping to fund the development of GW2.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

28 May 2010 at 23:29 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

If they don't intend to deliver the goods, they should not accept the payment.

Likely they have no way to tell that prior the account abilitation.

So, as mentioned, let's wait and see their stance before jumping on the accusation bandwagon: is that true, or is it just people being caught again by the detector? Will they refund those users purchasing accounts just to get banned soon after?

Even if they don't: they're clearly declaring in the EULA they're not offering service for Former Members unless explicitly authorized, so Former Members purchase again at their own risk of being caught and banned again.

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

28 May 2010 at 23:32 - 63

I'm suspicious of the OP. I'd like to see proof that re-bans are happening.

And if they are happening, I bet it's because people still have detectable remnants of bots on their machines.

Terrible Surgeon

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2009

hopper

A/

28 May 2010 at 23:33 - 64

Yeah Anet banning IP's is a little over the line. If the person gets a refund thats ok though. Learn to change your ip address.

headlesshobbs

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

28 May 2010 at 23:35 - 65

If you call your CC company for the refund, Anet/NCsoft could be eating a chargeback fee for every account sold and denied. They better start rethinking things on this issue.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

28 May 2010 at 23:36 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by niek2004

Hi,

Some players who got banned for botting decided to buy new accounts trough the NCSoft online store.

The players who used the same credit card or paypall they used to buy their old, banned, accounts with got banned straight after they paid.

Is this even legal, buying a product only to have it terminated an hour later?

Are we to believe cheaters who have denied they did wrong and now make new claims? The only way they could get a new account probably is to switch service providers and a different credit card.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

29 May 2010 at 00:02 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Likely they have no way to tell that prior the account abilitation.

Yeah, possibly. It seems that whatever information they have used (Credit Card or IP) to decide to ban on would be available at the time of the new purchase, but that doesn't mean that information is indeed available to the sales-site.

Quote:

Even if they don't: they're clearly declaring in the EULA they're not offering service for Former Members unless explicitly authorized, so Former Members purchase again at their own risk of being caught and banned again.

I have to repeat, no matter what reasons or justifications they believe to have, you can not make a sale when you have no intention of delivering the goods.

Quite likely that they never intended to make the sale and the salessites is
just not programmed to be aware of people being banned, but then I'd expect them to refund.

Ah well, the best option for the double-banned is probably to use whatever refund methods their cc-company offers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by headlesshobbs

If you call your CC company for the refund, Anet/NCsoft could be eating a chargeback fee for every account sold and denied. They better start rethinking things on this issue.

To be honest, I don't think there are all that many people restarting from scratch, when acquiring titles the long way was too much work for them in the first place. Might be well worth the trouble saved detecting them again.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

29 May 2010 at 00:04 - 68

maybe they should charge them double for being dumb enough to try and play again? put that in the eula.

It's Goofy Time

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2010

A/

29 May 2010 at 00:14 - 69

The EULA states that as long as they provide you with a minute of service, then it's legal and paid for. It also states that Guild Wars has the right to refuse refunds. This is fraud in my book, but not in the Book of Law.

Sure. It is probably true that they banned truly innocent and dedicated players for injecting a non-bot .dll in their graphics.dll. But, in this way, it'd be illegal. The EULA states that you cannot bot, or run third party programs. It states nothing about the injections of .dll.

Ranger Jaap

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

29 May 2010 at 00:20 - 70

i think its not good that anet bans bots if they buy new account, everybody deserves a second chance.

cormac ap dunn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2007

Mystic Empires III [xMEx]

Me/

29 May 2010 at 00:21 - 71

I think its a case of looking at what would happen if they purchased a physical copy of GW. See, NCsoft and Anet aren't responsible for your purchase of those, the ban would still happen as soon as you log in. And just because a CC was used to purchase a game from NCsoft these cards aren't flagged for other games available through the same place,or purchasing for another person as a gift. People are asking NCsoft/Arenanet to police every creditcard ever used to purchase a game from them. Sorry, but resources are best used for other things (GW2). If you were banned, you lose. Lesson is, don't buy a game you are banned from, you lose twice.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

29 May 2010 at 00:22 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadS

Almost 100% it's not. They never botted on that account therefor they have no reason to ban it.

Buying the game and using the service (server) is 2 different things.

Quote:

(h) Former Members.
Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive. Accounts accessed by Former Members are subject to immediate termination. NC Interactive reserves the right to use any means necessary, including those in section 4(i) to identify and remove Former Members.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 May 2010 at 00:26 - 73

To the guy who replied to me:

I really dont care IF NCSoft wants to keep banning these botters, aka simply want them gone.

What I said was I didn't care if they got banned on new acounts or not, but I personally dont have an issue with them not getting banned again.

What I do have an issue with is Anet stealing money from these people.

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

29 May 2010 at 00:26 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mora

(h) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive. Accounts accessed by Former Members are subject to immediate termination. NC Interactive reserves the right to use any means necessary, including those in section 4(i) to identify and remove Former Members.

Translation: Don't piss Anet off, they hold grudges like an ex-wife.

Because you have agree to this section in the EULA with the creation of ANY new account, and since Anet reserves the right to terminate your game account for any reason in the EULA, which also forces you to accept the laws of Texas in place of your own states' laws...its probably legal. The only question would be whether or not it will hold up in Texas, but I'm betting it would otherwise they wouldn't have done so.

God, Anet is genius. I'm still pissed at them for unrelated matters, but they're pretty badass doing this I must say. No more gold sellers or botters forever. You don't get a second chance.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

29 May 2010 at 00:28 - 75

Does anyone read the agreements and terms of use ever??? am I the only one that read it?

Regina Buenaobra

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/

29 May 2010 at 00:50 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by niek2004

Hi,

Some players who got banned for botting decided to buy new accounts trough the NCSoft online store.

The players who used the same credit card or paypall they used to buy their old, banned, accounts with got banned straight after they paid.

Is this even legal, buying a product only to have it terminated an hour later?

If you purchase a brand new account, our Support Team will not take action on your account (i.e. ban it) so long as this new account remains free of any incidents requiring action from the Support Team. If you engage in activity that goes against the User Agreement and you are reported for it, this will attract the attention of the Support Team, at which point, they will take action if your account is found to have broken the User Agreement.

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

29 May 2010 at 00:53 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

If you purchase a brand new account, our Support Team will not take action on your account (i.e. ban it) so long as this new account remains free of any incidents requiring action from the Support Team. If you engage in activity that goes against the User Agreement and you are reported for it, this will attract the attention of the Support Team, at which point, they will take action if your account is found to have broken the User Agreement.

This kinda gives some relief that anyone innocently banned who doesn't care to come back to GW won't get their future GW2 account taken away.

cormac ap dunn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2007

Mystic Empires III [xMEx]

Me/

29 May 2010 at 00:59 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

If you purchase a brand new account, our Support Team will not take action on your account (i.e. ban it) so long as this new account remains free of any incidents requiring action from the Support Team. If you engage in activity that goes against the User Agreement and you are reported for it, this will attract the attention of the Support Team, at which point, they will take action if your account is found to have broken the User Agreement.

I think this gives me a bit more confidence that the new detection methods for cheating/botting are solid, and that the new staffers are confident in their ability to end botting in the game. Thanks for responding Regina.

Simath

haha you're dumb

Join Date: Jul 2005

Moscow

29 May 2010 at 01:04 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

If you purchase a brand new account, our Support Team will not take action on your account (i.e. ban it) so long as this new account remains free of any incidents requiring action from the Support Team. If you engage in activity that goes against the User Agreement and you are reported for it, this will attract the attention of the Support Team, at which point, they will take action if your account is found to have broken the User Agreement.

What a cunning way to make a buck.

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

29 May 2010 at 01:14 - 80

this should be a relief to people who still would like to pursue onto gw2 even if they were banned in gw1