Emailing Support - Why are we doing it? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Erys Vasburg

[Domination Henchman]

Join Date: Feb 2007

Echovald Forest

House Vasburg

Me/

28 May 2010 at 23:41 - 1

STAFF EDIT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theocrat

People, please stay on topic and civil. Personal attacks, judgments of character, and Dhuum jokes are not what this thread is for. If you are not going to post something relevant to the intended discussion, then please refrain from posting in this thread at all. There has been more than enough meaningless bickering here already.

/STAFF EDIT (please do not confuse further sections of this post highlighted in red as a part of this edit; they are not)

The answer to that question is simple: because we have been told to do so. But in this post I will pose a pair of questions, with answers potentially more difficult to obtain.

Note that the following is solely related to the recent mass banning of Guild Wars accounts.

Before I begin, I'd just like to say how happy I am that ArenaNet has finally tightened their grip on botting in Guild Wars. It's wonderful to log in and know that no more will I be surrounded by characters who may or may not be controlled by an actual human being at any given time. I am extremely pleased with the majority of the staff at HQ right now! Also, I'd like to make it clear that my account was not banned, nor do I sympathize with anyone who was rightfully banned for violations of the EULA.

However, I am not so pleased with some things coming our way from NCSoft and ArenaNet, and I am sure many people agree with me on this. We are being told to waste our time on a hopeless matter by the people we have been trusting to steer us straight in matters related to Guild Wars. Allow me to elaborate.

Martin Kerstein and Regina Buenaobra have directed users feeling that they were erroneously banned to contact support on the matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

And you base your statement on what facts? Do you have prove of "tons of innocent people"?
Or are you relying on people telling you that they did nothing wrong?

I might sound harsh - but this is a serious issue, and I have been around for more then 4 years now.

Everytime people get banned, lots of statements pop up on the boards claiming to be innocent and that we made a mistake.

We did not talk about this ban in advance, because we worked hard on our methods for bot detection.

I repeat what I said earlier: If you think you have been wrongfully banned - contact support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

It means we can back our bans up by evidence.
If people feel they were wrongfully banned, they should contact support.

(Please go to these posts and see the ones he was replying to; you will understand momentarily why I ask you to do this!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

I can't comment on your case, as I am not customer support. All I can say is that support investigates each account thoroughly. Please take it up with them.

Now, being told to seek help from Support is nothing new. We are told to do it by many members of ArenaNet and NCSoft staff, and it is good that they direct us to where we need to go to receive help. However, in this case, there is no help to be received - something they are surely fully aware of. Again, allow me to elaborate by quoting what seem to be the automated replies going out to every player emailing support regarding this issue.

Quote:

Hello,

Your Guild Wars account has been closed for botting and/or the use of a third-party program. We want you to know that we take great care when analyzing accounts prior to termination.
For additional information on the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct, please visit the links below:

http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...sofconduct.php
http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...-agreement.php

Regards,
GM Evan
The Guild Wars Support Team

Quote:

Hello,

Due to the third-party program violations committed by this account, it will remain closed. We will not accept appeals in cases such as this because of the depth of the analysis prior to the block.

Please keep in mind that Guild Wars is a global game with hundreds of thousands of players. This means that standards of behavior must be upheld and we will take all necessary actions to protect the Guild Wars community and to assure that players are abiding by our User Agreement and Rules of Conduct.

Regards,
GM Martina
The Guild Wars Support Team

Quote:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting the Guild Wars Support Team.

I am escalating your ticket to our Guild Wars senior staff members to assist you further. Once they have reviewed your question, one of them will contact you as soon as possible.

Regards,
GM Phillip
The Guild Wars Support Team

Quote:

Hello,

I understand that you have concerns about the termination of your Guild Wars account. I would like to provide you with additional information that may be of assistance as you review your individual situation:

The accounts that were terminated on May 26th used a disallowed third-party program at some time in the past. That doesn’t mean the program was used within the last few days or even within the last few weeks, because the scope of our bot detection efforts extended over a long period of time. So any of the 3,700 accounts that were closed may have used a forbidden third-party program this week, last week, or even a few months ago. Some people may have installed and uninstalled a forbidden program a while ago, thinking it would not be detected. Obviously that wasn’t the case. Others may share a computer and not realize that someone else added a bot program to their system. And still others may not realize that the program that they were told was “harmless” or even “approved by ArenaNet” is actually a cheat program.

Some players have said they believe that their account was terminated because they used certain third-party programs such as TexMod or Guild Wars Multi-Client. We do not action the accounts of people who use these programs because in their original form they do not give players an inherent gameplay advantage. That has been true in the past; that remains true today. But the accounts that were terminated were not using such programs. Either the players involved were knowingly using cheat programs, or they were using what they thought were benign programs that had been altered, turning them from acceptable to unacceptable.

Please keep in mind that ArenaNet and NCsoft do not “approve” third-party programs. We know that we cannot ensure the integrity of programs that we did not create. So while we do not take action on the users of programs that are known to not give a player any gameplay advantages, establishing the integrity of any third-party program falls to the individual user.

I hope that this additional information is helpful to you. Please note that this is the final communication we will be giving in response to this appeal. Subsequent communication about this matter will be closed without response.

Take care,

Lead GM Oghma
The Guild Wars Support Team

Many people who have reportedly never engaged in any sort of illicit activities in Guild Wars (be it botting, match manipulation, or otherwise), have emailed support after getting caught in this massive wave of bans, and been greeted by these exact same responses, with no regard to the contents of their original ticket or any of their responses to support replies.

TO BE CLEAR: If you are asking about your account being banned, no matter what you put in your original ticket, or what you send as replies to the first pair of automated responses, you will always get the same fourth response that you see here. Support is using automated responses to completely shut down ANY tickets about the bans, appeals or otherwise. Tickets are NOT being reviewed, and support is NOT being given.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xslash

to all the people that say ANET checks b4 giving you an automated response, i present you this following image:

(in case its unclear, look at the response time)

Now, there are two questions I have for the community, NCSoft, and ArenaNet:

Why are we being told by ArenaNet and NCSoft to email support, if support has no intention of even listening to what we have to say (as evidenced by the automated replies)?
How can ArenaNet and NCSoft be so absolutely sure (as evidenced by Martin Kerstein's responses quoted above, and again, the automated support replies) that, in a case of three thousand seven hundred bans, there can not be any margin of error?

As a final note, I humbly ask that all posters please remain civil, on topic, and contribute to the discussion in a constructive manner. We can discuss this like grown ups, I'm sure.

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

28 May 2010 at 23:44 - 2

1. because that's what they're supposed to do, regardless of how good or bad support.
2. they're not, but they don't have the resources (read: can't be bothered) to double check.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

28 May 2010 at 23:47 - 3

I would hope someone from ANET would explain what is being done to correct any wrongful bannings. That would be the proper and rightful thing to do. This thread will most likely end up being troll bait for those who were banned or have an inherent dislike of ANET.

Emunator

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

DVDF

Mo/E

28 May 2010 at 23:54 - 4

I also did get the same response, seems they are not even looking into our complaints.

amaretto creme

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2008

PA

Drunken Devil Dawgs [USMC]

E/

28 May 2010 at 23:57 - 5

I have a feeling it has to do with SO many people going to them right now about their accounts. They don't have the manpower to check all of them, and even that, I bet a lot of these people DID bot in the past or did some match manipulation, or whatever, but they are just doing it to prove to their friends they didn't (remember, GW is a show we put on for our online friends). I know a few people who were probably wrongfully banned, but I also know a few people who SAY they were wrongfully banned but have admitted to botting to at least one or more of my OTHER friends. You really can never tell, and only they can, as they can go back and look through your account records. Most people who complain about it to them, who have been botting, probably don't think about this.

Either way, once again I have a feeling right now these automated responses will continue until things die down a bit, where they won't have a FLOOD of tickets to go through from people who are faking, or people who thought they didn't do anything wrong but in all actuality, did.

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

28 May 2010 at 23:58 - 6

It is quite interesting that everyone is getting exactly the same e-mails. seems that they just cannot deal with the massive influx of people filing support tickets. They probably had these e-mails pre-written before the bans were even issued, *sigh*.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 May 2010 at 00:06 - 7

It's quite interesting that "everyone" seems innocent.

GW support does suck. Don't let there be any doubt about that, but as someone said before, the Anet team can do nothing but redirect to them.

I myself have beef with the fact that even the support liason does not try to listen or understand to most of the issues. Though, I'll give that Gaile does try to help people out, though with a VERY superficial mindset. She's pretty much like a mom watching television while you try to explain her you got bullied at school. She'll give you the "aww, that's too bad" but she has no clue what you're talking about.

mlandry

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

W/Me

29 May 2010 at 00:12 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

It's quite interesting that "everyone" seems innocent.

GW support does suck. Don't let there be any doubt about that, but as someone said before, the Anet team can do nothing but redirect to them.

I myself have beef with the fact that even the support liason does not try to listen or understand to most of the issues. Though, I'll give that Gaile does try to help people out, though with a VERY superficial mindset. She's pretty much like a mom watching television while you try to explain her you got bullied at school. She'll give you the "aww, that's too bad" but she has no clue what you're talking about.

I don't agree. When my account was stolen in the past I contacted support to know how it happened and they were able to tell me where it was accessed from and how it happened.

There just happens to be thousands of people proclaiming to be innocent at the same time right now so it's impossible for them to deal with them individually.

Ninja Ninja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

W/

29 May 2010 at 00:12 - 9

Does anet work during weekends?

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

29 May 2010 at 00:14 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

Does anet work during weekends?

NCSoft stayed on a weekend when the bots in Aion were banned because of how many innocents got caught.

Ninja Ninja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

W/

29 May 2010 at 00:21 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

NCSoft stayed on a weekend when the bots in Aion were banned because of how many innocents got caught.

This has been going on since the middle of the week, doesn't really require them to miss out on there weekend.

code

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2010

29 May 2010 at 00:22 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

This has been going on since the middle of the week, doesn't really require them to miss out on there weekend.

Well we haven't heard of anyone getting unbanned yet, so who knows.

Sir Cusfreak

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

In your backline

No Tags [NONE]

29 May 2010 at 00:25 - 13

1st off: I dont buy that those people who claim innocence were innocent. It's within the realm of possibilty...maybe...but its SO unlikely that i think they'd have a better chance of two same-raced people popping up and spontaneously having a baby of another race. noone can say FOR SURE that it can't happen...but since the mom says she didnt have an affair she must not have, right? of course she didn't.
Now, they scan for DLL injections and guess what? they found some <gasp> and it's NOT a false positive. Don't buy it.

NOW to answer the other question: ANET has done the same thing I just did here. They say "its not OUTSIDE THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY that we were wrong, so if we were, tell us: write support"...but they KNOW what thier scans looked for and they know what they found. Its called a gesture, and it's polite. Nothing more.

Zebideedee

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

55?? 57' 0" N / 3?? 12' 0" W

N/Me

29 May 2010 at 00:28 - 14

So many banned accounts, some justified, some aren't, they are probably overwhelmed with QQ's and legit complaints about being banned.

I got banned (72) for having a dodgy name before, took them about 48 hours to reply*. Just be thankful you don't have to phone a call centre in India or something. I phoned Belkin once when I was having router problems, I eventually just gave up and hung up the phone. No offence to any Indian people but with the language barrier and the fact they were reading from a script made it almost impossible.

*Just wanted to know why they had waited a year, and of all times they banned me during when the Mad King was appearing, ouch!

freedom_razor

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

29 May 2010 at 00:30 - 15

Some of the banned accounts were never injecting, and some others, not yet banned, were injecting, mmkay?

They just don't give a crap about emails to support, and those messages were there long time ago. Auto-responder ftw.

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

29 May 2010 at 00:31 - 16

Same responses...and even though I don't blame A-net/ncsoft... I see something ugly coming..

dasmitchies

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Sacred Forge Knights

W/P

29 May 2010 at 00:32 - 17

Anet.'s further incompetence is continuing proof buying GW2 is probably a waste of time. Innocent people did get swept and they are being responded to by a bot, (seriously ironic). I didn't, but guildies did, and they had not botted. In other posts we are seeing Anet jacking money from those who decided to buy another account and immediately banned them. If this is the garbage Anet produces I could care less if GW2 is a Monster cant miss game... Customer service means something even to casual gamers and without it I wont buy.

MArcSinus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2010

The Netherlands

Are We Friends [NLT]

E/

29 May 2010 at 00:35 - 18

Alright, my very simple minded view on the matter:

If you commit a crime you should be notified about what you did wrong.
How else can you defend yourself/prove them wrong?
Anet has all the information why you got banned, the time when you were botting, how much and maybe even what the hell you (or actually the bot) was doing at those times.
If you send them your account information it shouldn't be to hard for them to send this, or a part, of this information to you.

dasmitchies

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Sacred Forge Knights

W/P

29 May 2010 at 00:36 - 19

BTW: Lag is the same as before and prices didn't fluctuate in play economy. Obviously this action was absolutely neccessary. If anyone is an attorney you should look at a class-action lawsuit. The beleagured class looks HUGE.

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

29 May 2010 at 00:36 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erys Vasburg

This is not about who got banned, their status or lack of, or even the innocence or guilt of so-and-so and such-and-such.

Well then if who got banned doesn't matter, doesn't it make sense that the replies would be very similar if not identical?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erys Vasburg

I was merely listing some examples, in an effort to show that there has been little to no deviation in the content and format of the replies issued by Support regarding this case.

Because for once Anet is being fair. People are getting the same treatment. Don't you like equality?

You don't know how their new method works, but if they could round up this many I am very confident in it. If they were any more specific in their answers I believe they would give away how they caught these people.

amaretto creme

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2008

PA

Drunken Devil Dawgs [USMC]

E/

29 May 2010 at 00:37 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by freedom_razor

Some of the banned accounts were never injecting, and some others, not yet banned, were injecting, mmkay?

If they were never injecting, they would never have been caught. They might have even had something that they thought was safe but was not, or even, in the case of a friend of mine, their brother used bots and any account coming from that IP just got banned, so, sadly, his did too. It happens, and I'd whoop my brother's butt for that, FYI. Lol

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

29 May 2010 at 00:37 - 22

off course there is an automated reply email, It is probably pre-written before they release Dhunn. You don't expect them to write individual heart warming reply to every players who submit a query, now, do you? Cos it would take months before they can attend to you.

You can probably use a bot to submit your query

, sorry can't help it.

/runs away

Erys Vasburg

[Domination Henchman]

Join Date: Feb 2007

Echovald Forest

House Vasburg

Me/

29 May 2010 at 00:47 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

Well then if who got banned doesn't matter, doesn't it make sense that the replies would be very similar if not identical?

They should not be identical, because each case is different. The purpose of emailing support is to receive support. When there is absolutely no support being given, there ceases to be a reason to request it, and likewise a reason to direct one to seek it (see: Question #1). Users are directed to seek assistance, and then promptly denied any.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

Because for once Anet is being fair. People are getting the same treatment. Don't you like equality?

Whether or not they are being fair is debatable (for example, it is hardly fair to give these responses to someone asking about their account possibly being compromised, but that is exactly what has happened in at least one case), but I personally feel that in cases of support, people should be treated equally but differently.

vamp08

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

PA, USA

[COPY]

D/

29 May 2010 at 00:48 - 24

*Composes self*

I agree, dont fight bots with bots, ANet.

MArcSinus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2010

The Netherlands

Are We Friends [NLT]

E/

29 May 2010 at 00:49 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

off course there is an automated reply email, It is probably pre-written before they release Dhunn. You don't expect them to write individual heart warming reply to every players who submit a query, now, do you? Cos it would take months before they can attend to you.

You can probably use a bot to submit your query

, sorry can't help it.

/runs away

I don't see why it would take months...

Let us assume half of the 3700 accounts have the same IP, which would mean we have 1850 people sending a query. Even this number is to big imo regarding some people having like 12 side-accounts and not everyone replys obviously.
Now let us assume it would cost a support member 10 minutes to look up your account information after your reply and send you the information why you got banned. It would take 18500 minutes, which are 925/3 hours, let's assume a employer works 9 hours a day it would take him or her about 34 days.. but obviously he/her isn't alone. With 10 people it would only cost them 3,4 days..

Of course I made all these numbers up but I hope you get the picture that if we gave them, let's say a week, to respond to everyone they should have plenty of time for a proper response.

cormac ap dunn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2007

Mystic Empires III [xMEx]

Me/

29 May 2010 at 00:51 - 26

At a time when so many people have been banned, can we honestly expect any company to give a non automated response so soon? Its been stated in this thread several times that Anet has their hands full right now, I'm sure in time people will get non canned responses to their questions. Its only been a few days, give these folks a break. Its a job, not a love affair with each person sending in a ticket. If you want kisses and hugs, go to your loved ones. If you want an answer, be patient, in time you will get them.

I Rogue Syndicate I

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2010

W/D

29 May 2010 at 00:52 - 27

seems like an insurance company just auto denying coverage many times just to get the majority to stop trying... everyone knows how much love there is for insurance companies... lol

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

29 May 2010 at 00:54 - 28

They have other things to do as well, like other players with other type of problems.

You all should use the phone line

Erys Vasburg

[Domination Henchman]

Join Date: Feb 2007

Echovald Forest

House Vasburg

Me/

29 May 2010 at 00:56 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

I'm sure in time people will get non canned responses to their questions.

Unfortunately, they are being told that they will never get any such thing. Please review the final sentence of the fourth email quoted in the original post.

And thus we come to one of the problems that prompted the posing of the first question. Automated replies are to be expected, and there is nothing wrong with them in concept; however, when these automated replies shut users out of any real support after they have been directed by employees to get support, the automation becomes an issue.

MArcSinus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2010

The Netherlands

Are We Friends [NLT]

E/

29 May 2010 at 00:57 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

You all should use the phone line

I'm pretty sure that ain't free of charge

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

29 May 2010 at 00:58 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

At a time when so many people have been banned, can we honestly expect any company to give a non automated response so soon? Its been stated in this thread several times that Anet has their hands full right now, I'm sure in time people will get non canned responses to their questions. Its only been a few days, give these folks a break. Its a job, not a love affair with each person sending in a ticket. If you want kisses and hugs, go to your loved ones. If you want an answer, be patient, in time you will get them.

Why not just make an auto response that says they are busy,instead of one that basically says fu*k off in a polite manner?

cormac ap dunn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2007

Mystic Empires III [xMEx]

Me/

29 May 2010 at 01:11 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erys Vasburg

Unfortunately, they are being told that they will never get any such thing. Please review the final sentence of the fourth email quoted in the original post.

And thus we come to one of the problems that prompted the posing of the first question. Automated replies are to be expected, and there is nothing wrong with them in concept; however, when these automated replies shut users out of any real support after they have been directed by employees to get support, the automation becomes an issue.

I agree that they are harsh responses, but a recent post seems to state that those who lost their accounts for whatever reason have another avenue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

If you purchase a brand new account, our Support Team will not take action on your account (i.e. ban it) so long as this new account remains free of any incidents requiring action from the Support Team. If you engage in activity that goes against the User Agreement and you are reported for it, this will attract the attention of the Support Team, at which point, they will take action if your account is found to have broken the User Agreement.

So perhaps these accounts are really locked for good. then the automated response terminating all future support makes sense. I believe that the accounts are considered tainted, and therefore will never see reactivation, but to those who feel they can live with the rules, heres a solution.

Sir Cusfreak

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

In your backline

No Tags [NONE]

29 May 2010 at 01:12 - 33

I would agree with you if there was any support to be given, or if there was anything different going on between banned accounts. there's not - one answer is entirely encompassing. An alteration (injection) WAS made, and that is enough. "but it was only..." isnt worth pursuing.

I propose another question to the community here:
How much of ANET's current GW1 resources SHOULD be spent on these support emails?
A second scan/evaluation for each account? a personalized "on the night of April 15th at 2:14 am your account exited Bergen Hot Springs for the 400th time since logging on" ? NO. If theyre going to spend money and use resources, it should benefit the players, not the banned souls.
Its a waste of time and money to respond to each cheater, and the fact that they issued the invitation to contact them is a credit to thier professionalism, but, again, a gesture only. The fact that they respond to botters with a bot is a credit to thier greatness - it's a perfect ending; subtle, classy, and entirely appropriate.

Kumu Honua

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2008

29 May 2010 at 01:17 - 34

The only question that would matter to me is:

Did someone who has NOT lost their account to botting sent in a request and been sent these same responses?

THAT would show that they aren't even investigating before responding. All this shows is that they pre-wrote canned responses. They have always used canned responses.

Risus

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

56min UW HM post-2/25 I win

FDR

A/

29 May 2010 at 01:19 - 35

I understand what you are trying to say, and saying that they have absolutely no margin of error is completely obnoxious on ArenaNet's part, but the fact is that almost all 3700 accounts banned would be appealed despite the fact if they botted or not, simply because everyone thinks "Why not give it a shot?" There is no physical way ArenaNet could sift through all of those emails and figure out which ones even have a shred of legitimacy without being set back at the least a few days, which they are already pressured on time as it is.

I feel sorry for all the people that did get banned, but I suggest that you find another way to contact ArenaNet other than e-mail if you truly were wrongfully banned (phone would be the next best choice, interaction with a real human via voice would be much more legitimate than an email).

Edit: I just had to add this, it's too epic to leave out.

Quote:

I agree, dont fight bots with bots, ANet.

Erys Vasburg

[Domination Henchman]

Join Date: Feb 2007

Echovald Forest

House Vasburg

Me/

29 May 2010 at 01:21 - 36

Responses like that, Sir Cusfreak, are why the second question was posed.

How can one be absolutely sure, without a shadow of a doubt, that there is no margin for error in whatever methods ArenaNet has employed here? You speak as if you know for a fact that every player that was banned was violating the terms of the EULA. But even from the contents of the final support email quoted, we know that this is not the case; those sharing a computer with a violator, or (reportedly) on the same Internet connection as a violator, were also banned with no chance of account retrieval, or any chance at receiving anything but the quoted automated responses.

It is quite hard to believe that with 3,700 accounts being processed, none of them could have been banned in error. To reject any suggestions that even one could have been a mistake is quite ridiculous. No method of detection is infallible, and no investigation is flawless.

I Rogue Syndicate I

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2010

W/D

29 May 2010 at 01:22 - 37

anyone else think they should have been dealing with botters a little at a time as they were caught as apposed to waiting so long to hit so many all at one time to grand stand it? Seems like it would have been easier to handle the support aspect of it...

cormac ap dunn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2007

Mystic Empires III [xMEx]

Me/

29 May 2010 at 01:33 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Rogue Syndicate I

anyone else think they should have been dealing with botters a little at a time as they were caught as apposed to waiting so long to hit so many all at one time to grand stand it? Seems like it would have been easier to handle the support aspect of it...

From a support standpoint yes, but i think it was done to send a deliberate VERY public message; Don't break the rules! From that aspect, it was spot on! Would-be cheaters are now certain of what happens,and i think that was the point really!

I Rogue Syndicate I

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2010

W/D

29 May 2010 at 01:36 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

From a support standpoint yes, but i think it was done to send a deliberate VERY public message; Don't break the rules! From that aspect, it was spot on! Would-be cheaters are now certain of what happens,and i think that was the point really!

If they were handling if from the get go would there have been a need to send such a message...???

Smells funny to me...

I find if funny how everyone is so happy with a company running things like this... there seems to a lot of people so blinded with hate about the botters they are over looking a larger issue here...

Sir Cusfreak

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

In your backline

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29 May 2010 at 01:38 - 40

Quote:

Responses like that, Sir Cusfreak, are why the second question was posed.

How can one be absolutely sure, without a shadow of a doubt, that there is no margin for error in whatever methods ArenaNet has employed here? You speak as if you know for a fact that every player that was banned was violating the terms of the EULA. But even from the contents of the final support email quoted, we know that this is not the case; those sharing a computer with a violator, or (reportedly) on the same Internet connection as a violator, were also banned with no chance of account retrieval, or any chance at receiving anything but the quoted automated responses.

It is quite hard to believe that with 3,700 accounts being processed, none of them could have been banned in error. To reject any suggestions that even one could have been a mistake is quite ridiculous. No method of detection is infallible, and no investigation is flawless.

I don't find it hard to believe at all.
It's like this. I have a piece of paper with a picture on it. I made the original, and I know what it's supposed to look like. Now, I sell copies, and then I look at each copy. I CAN, beyond all shadow of a doubt, whether 3700 times or 37000 times or 3 billion times, tell if that copy has been altered. with a neat computer program that superimposes the pictures on top of one another, its even EASIER and reduces the margin of human error I would have if I used my eyesight.

<these people's files WERE altered. Period. ANET knows it, and it's NOT in error.>

Now I can make stacks and sort these copies, THESE were altered in this way, and these were altered in THAT way, etc....but if the copies werent supposed to be altered AT ALL, then WHY BOTHER?

If your file was altered, youre banned. We're calling it botting, and maybe you did and maybe you didnt, ACTUALLY "bot" but either way, you werent supposed to alter that file, and THATS plenty to ban you for.

In the unfortunate case of someone who shared an I.P. Address with a botter, they may be the ONLY case that even possibly should be allowed back in, and that would need to be a VERY strongly documented case...they would need to prove some things, in my opinion. If it happened that way, they should be able to prove it. but I dont want to see ONE botter reinstated because they were able to successfully lie about that situation. And dont start the innocent until proven guilty crap - no way.