Petition To Demand A Response From Anet On RMT Botters and Exploiters - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

30 May 2010 at 08:42 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by mini pet monster

Anet has won today's battle against bots, but has done little to combat RMTs. Anyone with half a brain could catch these guys.

Yup, like anyone with half a brain could catch rupt-bots or farming bots in Bergen Hot Springs.

And, oh, they did.

Don't assume they can't do anything / won't do anything / aren't doing anything about it. Botters felt safe just because Anet acted silently against this issue and there they go, a lot of them banned with no explicit forewarning.

Kiky

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2010

30 May 2010 at 10:59 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

As far as Anet getting to a ban on further bots, we can rest assured they aren't paying the new staffers to stand around and pat each other on the backs for this one ban. Having re-introduced people to ways of reporting was a clear indicator that they still need player input, of which i am more then willing to give. Rather then a lengthy petition, lets start using the paths clearest to helping this situation, report, report, report. Think we all know how fast this will break down toa "botters are evil" " non botters are jealous" war...

I don't belive in legends and fairy tales like they said "We have hired new staff members to track down bots". They didn't hire anyone simply checked for dll injections which problem has been solved in any game 568985 years before release.

This 3700+ botters are terminated, NCsoft protection is the best Lineage 2, aion proves it (sarcasm), GW never dies blabla... are obviously for marketing they just needed some flashy bans before the release of GW2.

I know players who got their highranked account banned because they botted in pve like 5 hours for a joke title, or synched codex arena which is the biggest joke pvp format anet has ever ever ever done. All these for a worthless title which nobody takes care of just botted it for fun because at that time nothing has been done about botting.

NOTE: anet won't reply to this, they don't give a shit about bots like RMT which bans won't be soo coooool for marketing.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

30 May 2010 at 11:06 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoF

They prefer to detect a bot and let it farm a few more stacks of ectos, than just ban it right away ... just to get that stupid artiacle that's all about MARKETING.

Gotta love oversimplification running rampant on internet forums.

End of January: loading of external libraries - such as the graphics.dll - is void to prevent botting. Then they improved their detection methods, investigated these cases and then dished out the account terminations when they could reasonably assume they were hitting a botter and not innocent players.

That's what? 4 months. Not much in my books when dealing with such a wide-spectrum problem. More prompt intervention can be dangerous. I can't believe people ask for quicker reactions and then also complain about bans catching innocent people.

The Arching Healer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Super Kaon Action Team [SuKa]

30 May 2010 at 11:12 - 44

The botters knew that they were risking a ban, but it is retarded that people that just tried out the rupt bot for example (for 10 mins) get the same punishment as people that farmed $1000 in PvE.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

30 May 2010 at 11:17 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Arching Healer

The botters knew that they were risking a ban, but it is retarded that people that just tried out the rupt bot for example (for 10 mins) get the same punishment as people that farmed $1000 in PvE.

Sure, the second one should face more severe consequences.

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

30 May 2010 at 11:24 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Sure, the second one should face more severe consequences.

The first should get perma banned and the second should have his tongue cut out?

Or did you have something else in mind?

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

30 May 2010 at 11:41 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

The first should get perma banned and the second should have his tongue cut out?

Repeated offenders should be kept off the service completely, while I wouldn't mind an occasional botter to be able to get a new account and start over, as long as he/she doesn't break the rules again.

Kiky

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2010

30 May 2010 at 12:12 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Arching Healer

The botters knew that they were risking a ban, but it is retarded that people that just tried out the rupt bot for example (for 10 mins) get the same punishment as people that farmed $1000 in PvE.

This is what i exacly was thinking, trying out interrupt bot for a few hours to learn to play against them and people that make money out of game gets same punishment. Also half of them wasnt even caught, nice joke.

Nerel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2008

Australia, what you want my home address?

[CAT]

Mo/

30 May 2010 at 12:33 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiky

This is what i exacly was thinking, trying out interrupt bot for a few hours to learn to play against them and people that make money out of game gets same punishment. Also half of them wasnt even caught, nice joke.

Why should you need to try a bot in order to play against it? Wouldn't it make more sense to report the bot and move on? We shouldn't have to play against bots, and there is NO excuse for using one. So clearly the ban was justified. As for the botter involved in RMT, he would likely be facing more than just a ban if he was caught for his RMT actions... Anet goes to some effort to block such people.

Anon-e-mouse

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

@ Home

League Of Friends [LOF]

R/Mo

30 May 2010 at 12:42 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by don_the_vito

*Note* Used a multi-gw client so I could play + trade that used injection, gg on my part.

Texmod WILL NOT get you banned,

GWML (or GWx2) WILL NOT get you banned.

If you got banned it's because A-net thinks you botted or particpated in match manipulation.

I've used Texmod and GWML almost constantly, and none of my accounts are banned.

Messy

huh?

Join Date: Jun 2005

Follow the rainbow, make a left and voila

Guildless

R/

30 May 2010 at 12:45 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinkies

And Peace And Harmony? lol that was a 1 man gold-trim guild that I ran before that account was banned last wednesday. That account never ran a bot and I rarely logged on it so you are obviously delusional.

That account may have not run a bot, but obviously YOU did, with a different account. ANET banned YOU and all your accounts. Had they just banned that alternate account you used to bot whatever it is you botted, you would be sitting there laughing and proud of not being caught, 'cause you are smarter then them. Unfortunately for you, this time, they banned the person behind the bots.

Looking at that picture somebody else posted on what you lost on your accounts, I can understand the motive for this thread. That is a lot you lost there. Why would you risk losing it all by doing something you knew you were not supposed to do is baffling to me.

I haven't played much at all for several months now, but I know a few friends have been banned. I feel sorry for them, they are good people, fun to hang around with, fun to play with, but in the end, if they made the choice to run a bot to get title # 89, or run a bot to farm in game then they knew what they were risking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiky

I know players who got their highranked account banned because they botted in pve like 5 hours for a joke title, or synched codex arena which is the biggest joke pvp format anet has ever ever ever done. All these for a worthless title which nobody takes care of just botted it for fun because at that time nothing has been done about botting.

so you know players that cheated because they were bored, or wanted to try something new, or botted for fun? and you feel they should not be punished because you believe ANET had not done anything about botting? so I guess that makes botting acceptable in your world?

Most of the guys that got caught I'm pretty sure are seasoned players. They've been around through most GW bans. Some had managed to avoid the ban hammer before. Why risk losing it all is something I will never understand.

Tullzinski

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Trying to stay out of Ryuk's Death Note

N/R

30 May 2010 at 12:51 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinkies

So you are perfectly content with Anet banning the players who might have just loaded up a small bot infrequently. But you don't care about the people who exploit or bot for real money?

No offense but you are either an obvious hypocrite, or you are a dirty exploiter

Yes I am perfectly content with ANET banning players who loaded any bot for any amount of time.

Also if you have EVER read any of my other post about botting you would know that I have always said it was about money for many botters that are selling the stuff. You are way late to the party on that!!! No offense, but you can take your name calling and shove it. You can review my posts in this thread if you dont believe me:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...tml?t=10422646

Like I said before you seem to know alot about who is botting for money and have more than once in this thread complained that they are still botting REPORT THEM and quit wasting time here complaining that they are still botting.

ALSO YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE REFERENCES TO THE BOTTING PROGRAM.

Kiky

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2010

30 May 2010 at 13:15 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Why should you need to try a bot in order to play against it? Wouldn't it make more sense to report the bot and move on? We shouldn't have to play against bots, and there is NO excuse for using one. So clearly the ban was justified. As for the botter involved in RMT, he would likely be facing more than just a ban if he was caught for his RMT actions... Anet goes to some effort to block such people.

About interrupt bot and botting in general anet didnt do anything for like 1 year, so ofc we wanted to learn to play against them. Moreover do u think we didnt report them? Personally I reported like 10 bots a day, nothing happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Mess Withme

so you know players that cheated because they were bored, or wanted to try something new, or botted for fun? and you feel they should not be punished because you believe ANET had not done anything about botting? so I guess that makes botting acceptable in your world?

Most of the guys that got caught I'm pretty sure are seasoned players. They've been around through most GW bans. Some had managed to avoid the ban hammer before. Why risk losing it all is something I will never understand.

No botting is not acceptable, it should have never been this widespread, if u have read through the post of OP carefully u would know what I'm talking about. If they have stopped it before botting was so common then like 100 accounts would have been banned and not 4000. There's only one explanation for this MARKETING.

Also, most of the banned ppl are NOT the ones who have ever used bot before and got banned. Just ask ur mod friend Lemming, his main got banned for botting so u say he simply avoided banhammer before?
Get a clue about game then talk in this topic pls (-this is mostly not for u mod guy but every forumer in general who have never done anything than troll farming in droknar.)

Ashius

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2007

Australia

Dr Dre Detox Beatz [Dre]

30 May 2010 at 15:30 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Arching Healer

The botters knew that they were risking a ban, but it is retarded that people that just tried out the rupt bot for example (for 10 mins) get the same punishment as people that farmed $1000 in PvE.

QFT.

It seems that a lot of you PvE'ers don't realise how may high-end respected players have been banned due to maybe trying the bot once. Some of these players were even people who have played the game for 5 years, never obtained one black mark, and get the same treatment as Asgas Gsgkasf who is controlled by a gold farming company, just because they injected once. As stated in previous threads, A-Net's mass ban stunt did little but generate a bit of positive PR, knowing that a lot of oblivious players will jump on the bandwagon for GW2, rejoicing in the glory that is A-Net's bot-busting movement.

And no, I'm not one of those who received a ban. Just a realist.

StormX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

E/Mo

30 May 2010 at 15:38 - 55

*ahem* How is botting considered respectable? If they had any sort of moral integrity they would not have botted in the first place.

I'm glad to see the game rid of these dubious characters.

Ps. really mods, did you have to delete the most amusing parts of this thread?

Ashius

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2007

Australia

Dr Dre Detox Beatz [Dre]

30 May 2010 at 15:44 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormX

*ahem* How is botting considered respectable? If they had any sort of moral integrity they would not have botted in the first place.

I'm glad to see the game rid of these dubious characters.

Well the sheer fact that they could play a game for 5 years, which is known for having a somewhat juvenile community, and refrain from obtaining any black marks. I have played for about that long, and over that time I've gathered numerous black marks due to abusive language ingame, etc. If you are going to play the morality game, then surely I should be banned too, as myself spamming racial slurs to someone is obviously worse than injecting a bot once. I actually had an effect on someone. The punishment should meet the crime.

StormX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

E/Mo

30 May 2010 at 15:56 - 57

You know what? I would'nt have a problem if racist-spammers were perma banned too, but that's really not the point of this thread. Also, there are lots of people who have played the game for years without getting banned or reported. There is nothing extraordinary about it that entitles them to special treatment.

dancing gnome

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

House of Wandering Souls

R/Rt

30 May 2010 at 15:57 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by mini pet monster

3. Anet figured they'd make the best of a bad situation, and turned this whole mess into a marketing masterpiece. "3700+ accounts banned! Botters are never safe! Long live guild wars!" If they stopped the issue back in September, it would have only been a measly 10+ accounts. If they actually consistently banned people for botting, and posted warning messages when you login during prime bot times (event weekends, double points weekends). They never would have been able to accumulate more than 100 bots at once. Most of the people banned today, would never have botted. But that's not their problem. With no checks in place for 9 months, it's not surprising it got this bad.

This is my biggest issue with the recent bans. If they had taken action sooner and more consistently, a lot of the people would have never broken the rules in the first place. You can say they broke the rules and should be banned all you like, that will never change the reality that by holding back on taking action or even saying something, Arena Net allowed the botting to spread to players it never would have in the first place.

StormX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

E/Mo

30 May 2010 at 16:03 - 59

That is true. They should have been consistent with enforcing their policies in the first place. I hope too that this is not just a show, and that they will continue ridding the game of cheaters. Only time will tell.

Ashius

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2007

Australia

Dr Dre Detox Beatz [Dre]

30 May 2010 at 16:04 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

This is my biggest issue with the recent bans. If they had taken action sooner and more consistently, a lot of the people would have never broken the rules in the first place. You can say they broke the rules and should be banned all you like, that will never change the reality that by holding back on taking action or even saying something, Arena Net allowed the botting to spread to players it never would have in the first place.

Exactly. Its like neglecting running drug rehab programs, just so they could catch more drug users. There would be no need for A-Net to ban so many players if they simply took action when the problem was presented. But then they couldn't have a flashy headline

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormX

That is true. They should have been consistent with enforcing their policies in the first place. I hope too that this is not just a show, and that they will continue ridding the game of cheaters. Only time will tell.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the case. If they really did care then they would have hit the problem before it became widespread, and irritated their beloved community for months.

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

30 May 2010 at 16:19 - 61

Quote:

Unfortunately, this seems to be the case. If they really did care then they would have hit the problem before it became widespread, and irritated their beloved community for months.

huh?

The beloved community is just peachy, as a matter of fact..thar be parties in full swing at HA INT1.
Me thinks the only ones that are irrated at the moment, are the cheaters that got dhuumed.
Folks get tired of the whole:
BAWWWW! I only wanted to see what it was like! (folks get STD's in RL pulling that one.)
My disabled cousin's brother was on my computer!! (erm, more supervision maybe?)
The map hack from the wiki wouldn't work right, I HAD to get 'the upgrade' on hax4U.com!! (le-sigh)
C'mon guys..stop acting like forum lawyers with the analogies....ANet/NCsoft PAY for their lawyers. they done sifted thru all of these probabilities!
WAIT for your final responses from support..(IF you really had the stones to put in a ticket)
But, do carry on with the 'debates' on 'level of punishment'...it does makes me chuckle over my cornflakes...

EDIT: <3 Sonata!!
(and Del too..even tho his posts were mod-wiped)

-Sonata-

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Pretty Hate Machines [NIN]

Me/

30 May 2010 at 16:21 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashius

QFT.

It seems that a lot of you PvE'ers don't realise how may high-end respected players have been banned due to maybe trying the bot once. Some of these players were even people who have played the game for 5 years, never obtained one black mark, and get the same treatment as Asgas Gsgkasf who is controlled by a gold farming company, just because they injected once.

Those high-end, respected, players who never had a black mark and who have been around for 5 years are exactly the ones who should have known better than everyone else. They are the ones who should have set the example of honesty. If you've been around for 5 years than you know better than anyone else that botting, even for a second, is not permitted and you're risking a permenant ban. They should have been the ones telling others to stop botting. They should have been the ones on the side of solving the issue instead of contributing to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

This is my biggest issue with the recent bans. If they had taken action sooner and more consistently, a lot of the people would have never broken the rules in the first place. You can say they broke the rules and should be banned all you like, that will never change the reality that by holding back on taking action or even saying something, Arena Net allowed the botting to spread to players it never would have in the first place.

I'll repeat something in my earlier post. How many times does the community need to be warned? How many log-in announcements, bannings, and forums posts does it take before some get the message? The policy has always been if you bot, you're at risk. Action has been taken over the years in regards to bots and exploits. I'll reference the mass bans regarding the hidden out post in DoA again as one example of the actions taken against cheating.

It still seems though, that even after this Wednesday, some still haven't gotten the message.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormX

Also, there are lots of people who have played the game for years without getting banned or reported. There is nothing extraordinary about it that entitles them to special treatment

And yet it was just argued that respected, high-end players, that have been around for 5 years, got the boot. So which is it?

Ashius

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2007

Australia

Dr Dre Detox Beatz [Dre]

30 May 2010 at 16:28 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

huh?

The beloved community is just peachy, as a matter of fact..thar be parties in full swing at HA INT1.
Me thinks the only ones that are irrated at the moment, are the cheaters that got dhuumed.
Folks get tired of the whole:
BAWWWW! I only wanted to see what it was like! (folks get STD's in RL pulling that one.)
My disabled cousin's brother was on my computer!! (erm, more supervision maybe?)
The map hack from the wiki wouldn't work right, I HAD to get 'the upgrade' on hax4U.com!! (le-sigh)
C'mon guys..stop acting like forum lawyers with the analogies....ANet/NCsoft PAY for their lawyers. they done sifted thru all of these probabilities!
WAIT for your final responses from support..(IF you really had the stones to put in a ticket)
But, do carry on with the 'debates' on 'level of punishment'...it does makes me chuckle over my cornflakes...

EDIT: <3 Sonata!!
(and Del too..even tho his posts were mod-wiped)

I find it almost humourous that you used over 100 words to contribute nothing of value to this discussion. What we are discussing is that there are varying levels of offence, and as such there should be varying levels of punishment. And analogies don't make us lawyers, analogies are used to compare a current situation to a hypothetical situation that is similar.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

I'll repeat something in my earlier post. How many times does the community need to be warned? How many log-in announcements, bannings, and forums posts does it take before some get the message? The policy has always been if you bot, you're at risk. Action has been taken over the years in regards to bots and exploits. I'll reference the mass bans regarding the hidden out post in DoA again as one example of the actions taken against cheating.

Good to find another intelligent individual here. But I have to disagree, it was obvious that the bots in their current form were to become an epidemic, yet A-Net chose to wait before taking action. And it had been going on for a huge period, long enough to cause some to quit. It just seems that A-Net are using this as a quick-fix PR scheme before GW2.

dancing gnome

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

House of Wandering Souls

R/Rt

30 May 2010 at 16:33 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

I'll repeat something in my earlier post. How many times does the community need to be warned? How many log-in announcements, bannings, and forums posts does it take before some get the message? The policy has always been if you bot, you're at risk. Action has been taken over the years in regards to bots and exploits. I'll reference the mass bans regarding the hidden out post in DoA again as one example of the actions taken against cheating.

And yet there was huge thread demanding a response about botting from A-Net which went untouched for ages. They even said they were deliberately avoiding commenting on the issue. This seems like the opposite of what they should have been doing.

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

30 May 2010 at 16:39 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

And yet there was huge thread demanding a response about botting from A-Net which went untouched for ages. They even said they were deliberately avoiding commenting on the issue. This seems like the opposite of what they should have been doing.

this. truth is, the little guy got hurt more than the big guy.

rmt botting has always existed. to think otherwise is foolish. has rmt botting been on the rise for this action to be justified? no. will rmt botting continue to happen? yes.

the 3700 imo was to fix pvp botting. which it has, but a lot of the penalties were overkill imo. pvp botting i don't believe required such unjustified actions to fix the problem. did it work? yes. was it handled well? no.

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

30 May 2010 at 16:56 - 66

Quote:

And analogies don't make us lawyers, analogies are used to compare a current situation to a hypothetical situation that is similar.

Yeah, right.
Here, I have one for you:
Here's a turd, look..I painted it pink and put sprinkles onnit!
It's a cupcake!

pfffft.
Quit with the comparisons of the ORIGINAL offense(s), call it what it IS, and what the punishment IS:
Botting/game manipulation/exploiting= BAN.
Any gaming company with a hint of scruples knows how to handle these problems.
They have no use for mercy, their profits are the ones at risk, not to mention the entertainment value of HONEST customers,....not some kid butt hurt because he can't be 'uber-leet' anymore.
You don't need to 'flower it up' with 'analogies', it is what it is.

sixdartbart

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Peace Machine GRRR [DiE]

W/N

30 May 2010 at 16:58 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashius

it was obvious that the bots in their current form were to become an epidemic, yet A-Net chose to wait before taking action. And it had been going on for a huge period, long enough to cause some to quit. It just seems that A-Net are using this as a quick-fix PR scheme before GW2.

Which is it, Anet waited too long to do anything or they rushed out with a quick fix?

When I see people arguing both sides of an issue it makes me suspect they may just be trying to argue.

Kiky

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2010

30 May 2010 at 16:59 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

Those high-end, respected, players who never had a black mark and who have been around for 5 years are exactly the ones who should have known better than everyone else. They are the ones who should have set the example of honesty. If you've been around for 5 years than you know better than anyone else that botting, even for a second, is not permitted and you're risking a permenant ban. They should have been the ones telling others to stop botting. They should have been the ones on the side of solving the issue instead of contributing to it.

I'll repeat something in my earlier post. How many times does the community need to be warned? How many log-in announcements, bannings, and forums posts does it take before some get the message? The policy has always been if you bot, you're at risk. Action has been taken over the years in regards to bots and exploits. I'll reference the mass bans regarding the hidden out post in DoA again as one example of the actions taken against cheating.

It still seems though, that even after this Wednesday, some still haven't gotten the message.

And yet it was just argued that respected, high-end players, that have been around for 5 years, got the boot. So which is it?

What can the high-end players do if a public bot is being overused in which game the admins don't do anything and let the problem be widespread?
I know the answer, high-end players MUST learn to play against bots therefore some of them should try it cause its the best way of making a tactic against them.
Lot of the 4000 banned accounts were actually high-end players who did that and got same punishment as a guy who's selling out the shit of this game by making real money from ectos, or maybe even stricter cause most of the money sellers haven't get ban. And if they have been banned they would just hacked another acc and start it over again while the 5 years old players that are an active part of the community disappear.
I'm not saying the bot triers should just get away with it but a 2 weeks or 1 month ban would have shown that anet does care and the bot is not undetected. But obviously they couldnt have those flashy title with their unber pro ultimate bot protection.

Mithie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Rest En Pieces [RIP]

Me/W

30 May 2010 at 17:04 - 69

Quote:

What we are discussing is that there are varying levels of offence, and as such there should be varying levels of punishment.

There is. If you botted once or twice, you had your main account banned. If you're a habitual botter, you got every linked account plus your IP banned.

Ashius

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2007

Australia

Dr Dre Detox Beatz [Dre]

30 May 2010 at 17:04 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

Yeah, right.
Here, I have one for you:
Here's a turd, look..I painted it pink and put sprinkles onnit!
It's a cupcake!

pfffft.
Quit with the comparisons of the ORIGINAL offense(s), call it what it IS, and what the punishment IS:
Botting/game manipulation/exploiting= BAN.
Any gaming company with a hint of scruples knows how to handle these problems.
They have no use for mercy, their profits are the ones at risk, not to mention the entertainment value of HONEST customers,....not some kid butt hurt because he can't be 'uber-leet' anymore.
You don't need to 'flower it up' with 'analogies', it is what it is.

I obviously need to flower it up more then, because you still seem to have no clue what I'm talking about. The punishment for a first offence for scamming is something like a 24-48 hour ban. That is surely more detrimental to the community than the player who takes an interrupt bot to Isle of the Nameless to see how it works. Yet the latter is more likely to receive the harsher punishment.

EDIT:
@sixdartbart - sorry if i was unclear, I was stating that they intentionally took too long to fix it so that they could quick-fix their declining reputation that they didn't care about GW1.

@Mithie - That actually isn't the case, there are numerous abusers who I've seen bragging on their mains that A-Net has only banned the accounts they have actually used the bot on. And IP bans aren't exactly hard to get around.

Mithie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Rest En Pieces [RIP]

Me/W

30 May 2010 at 17:09 - 71

Quote:

That is surely more detrimental to the community than the player who takes an interrupt bot to Isle of the Nameless to see how it works. Yet the latter is more likely to receive the harsher punishment.

No, they're not the same, at all. Scamming relies on complicity of the scammed party. Botting does not.

The fact of the matter is, botting is against the rules that Anet clearly laid out.

It doesn't matter the circumstances under which you bot. You broke the rule. You will be punished.

It's that simple.

Quote:

@Mithie - That actually isn't the case, there are numerous abusers who I've seen bragging on their mains that A-Net has only banned the accounts they have actually used the bot on.

Sure. I've seem people bragging on the internet that they have 16 inch dongs. I'd trust Anet over someone over the internet who may or may not be telling the truth.

Quote:

And IP bans aren't exactly hard to get around.

Account bans are.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

30 May 2010 at 17:11 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashius

I obviously need to flower it up more then, because you still seem to have no clue what I'm talking about. The punishment for a first offence for scamming is something like a 24-48 hour ban. That is surely more detrimental to the community than the player who takes an interrupt bot to Isle of the Nameless to see how it works. Yet the latter is more likely to receive the harsher punishment.

No, you're completely wrong there.

A first scamming offence is an offense to a small amount of players, often only a single one.

Using a bot for any reason or in any way, is an offense to the integrity of the game.

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

30 May 2010 at 17:13 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashius

I obviously need to flower it up more then, because you still seem to have no clue what I'm talking about. The punishment for a first offence for scamming is something like a 24-48 hour ban. That is surely more detrimental to the community than the player who takes an interrupt bot to Isle of the Nameless to see how it works. Yet the latter is more likely to receive the harsher punishment.

Thank you..this is more like it.

And yes, ANet has already decided the punishment..BAN.
Nothing any one of us can say will change that decision.
ANet is going thru the support tickets of the few that had the balls to put one in contesting it (their BAN).
Again, analogies, and venting here on Guru is great fun...but it all comes down to the simple fact:
The banned didn't read the EULA very closely, or not at all.
They were banned for breaking the EULA.
Giving them false hopes on a game forum is fubar....let them get their respective answers from ANET/NCsoft.

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

30 May 2010 at 17:13 - 74

The rationalizations people are making here are hilarious and pathetic.

"Anet MADE us bot! It's their fault we botted! They MADE us cheat! There was no other choice! The cheaters are the victims here!"

How come I had a choice?

Kiky

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2010

30 May 2010 at 17:14 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

Yeah, right.
Here, I have one for you:
Here's a turd, look..I painted it pink and put sprinkles onnit!
It's a cupcake!

pfffft.
Quit with the comparisons of the ORIGINAL offense(s), call it what it IS, and what the punishment IS:
Botting/game manipulation/exploiting= BAN.
Any gaming company with a hint of scruples knows how to handle these problems.
They have no use for mercy, their profits are the ones at risk, not to mention the entertainment value of HONEST customers,....not some kid butt hurt because he can't be 'uber-leet' anymore.
You don't need to 'flower it up' with 'analogies', it is what it is.

Yes every company knows how to handle bots, but seems like anet doesnt know. If the botting is so widespread then the game developers should think what they did wrong and the same action which would have worked BEFORE the problem was so common will NOT work if every third players are using a bot. I've played many games from many different company but yet anet surprised me again...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

No, they're not the same, at all. Scamming relies on complicity of the scammed party. Botting does not.

The fact of the matter is, botting is against the rules that Anet clearly laid out.

It doesn't matter the circumstances under which you bot. You broke the rule. You will be punished.

It's that simple.

Sure. I've seem people bragging on the internet that they have 16 inch dongs. I'd trust Anet over someone over the internet who may or may not be telling the truth.

Account bans are.

Ofc bots need to be punished but when a problem is so widespread and players who have never botted before and are a part of the community for 5 yrs then the punishment shouldn't be permanent ban...

Jinkies

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2008

Korea

Peace And Harmony [PnH] War Machine [WM]

30 May 2010 at 17:17 - 76

I don't really get Anet's motives behind banning everybody. A simple fix preventing .dll injection months ago would have prevented any PvP or PvE title bots, it would have prevented alot of players from getting banned and it would have taken alot less time to implement.

If Anet had even gone as far as to post in a login announcment saying that they will be more vigilant about traking botters how many people do you think would have stopped botting and would still be here right now?

Whenever a certain exploit becomes well known Anet has always (eventually) gotten around to fixing it, and on very few occasions were bans ever given. How is botting any different? How many of you bashing all the people who got banned right now also participated in the Duncan exploit, or RR, or run speed books? Heck if stealing rare minis and thousands of ectos only earns you a two week ban (and often you get to keep the stolen goods after) how can one argue that botting your Asura title and earning 200k along the way is merit for a perma ban?

All of the above are violations of the EULA, but only one was worthy of severe punishment? Is there not a difference between someone who RRed for one quest day and someone who RRed for months and got high commander titles?

Mithie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Rest En Pieces [RIP]

Me/W

30 May 2010 at 17:19 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiky

Yes every company knows how to handle bots, but seems like anet doesnt know. If the botting is so widespread then the game developers should think what they did wrong and the same action which would have worked BEFORE the problem was so common will NOT work if every third players are using a bot. I've played many games from many different company but yet anet surprised me again...

Let's take a look at what Anet did here.

1. People were botting.
2. Anet is made aware of this.
3. Anet hires technical staff to detect these bots.
4. Anet bans the botters.

This sounds like a fantastic job on Anet's part to me.

Quote:

Ofc bots need to be punished but when a problem is so widespread and players who have never botted before and are a part of the community for 5 yrs then the punishment shouldn't be permanent ban...

Okay, you're mixing up two different issues here.

1. Bots need to be punished.
2. Innocent people who were wrongly punished should be righted.

In the case of the 2nd issue, if you're innocent, Anet has said that their support staff will review your ticket and address it, if you are really innocent.

So there you go. If you haven't been botting but was caught in the ban, email Anet support.

On the other hand, if you've been playing this game for 5 years, botted once, and got banned, YOU DESERVE IT.

Because veterancy and seniority does not exonerate you from the rules.

It's silly to expect them to address your complaint over Memorial Day weekend, though.

Quote:

I don't really get Anet's motives behind banning everybody. A simple fix preventing .dll injection months ago would have prevented any PvP or PvE title bots, it would have prevented alot of players from getting banned and it would have taken alot less time to implement.

Preventing DLL injection IS NOT EASY. It's not a feasible technical solution. They could embed detectors to fit certain patterns known to popular bots, then exit(1) the process, but that would require quite a bit of work and could potentially lead to fatal bugs.

The fact of the matter is, you're not EVER going to stop people from injecting code into your program. It's just a fact of the technology we have to work with.

It also makes circumventing the safemeasure a piece of cake for bot programmers.

The whole point of this exercise is that bot programmers are kept in the dark about how Anet is detecting bots.

Ashius

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2007

Australia

Dr Dre Detox Beatz [Dre]

30 May 2010 at 17:22 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

No, they're not the same, at all. Scamming relies on complicity of the scammed party. Botting does not.

The fact of the matter is, botting is against the rules that Anet clearly laid out.

It doesn't matter the circumstances under which you bot. You broke the rule. You will be punished.

It's that simple.

Sure. I've seem people bragging on the internet that they have 16 inch dongs. I'd trust Anet over someone over the internet who may or may not be telling the truth.

Account bans are.

But for the offenders who are the ones ruining our economy by mass farming, account bans do nothing as they just steal/buy more accounts. This wave of bans seem to hit the little guy harder than the main offenders.

@Gli - The integrity of the game was in jeopardy for months up until now, yet A-Net waited until now to deal with it? They didn't ban to maintain the game's integrity, if they did they would have stopped the problem in December last year. They banned for publicity, and it seems to have worked.

Kiky

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2010

30 May 2010 at 17:24 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

Let's take a look at what Anet did here.

1. People were botting.
2. Anet is made aware of this.
3. Anet hires technical staff to detect these bots.
4. Anet bans the botters.

This sounds like a fantastic job on Anet's part to me.

Okay, you're mixing up two different issues here.

1. Bots need to be punished.
2. Innocent people who were wrongly punished should be righted.

In the case of the 2nd issue, if you're innocent, Anet has said that their support staff will review your ticket and address it, if you are really innocent.

So there you go. If you haven't been botting but was caught in the ban, email Anet support.

On the other hand, if you've been playing this game for 5 years, botted once, and got banned, YOU DESERVE IT.

Because veterancy and seniority does not exonerate you from the rules.

It's silly to expect them to address your complaint over Memorial Day weekend, though.

Okay let's take a look, anet didn't even care about pvp bots for 1 year so what do they expect? Won't it be widespread?
If u go to isle of nameless for a few times to see how the bot works, well i don't think it's a so earthshaking crime that has to be ended in a permanent ban.
Also there are big differences between players winning trims with bots, and simply trying it. Both ended in perma ban but their cape is still gold/silver. Doesn't sound so fair to me.

Ashius

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2007

Australia

Dr Dre Detox Beatz [Dre]

30 May 2010 at 17:29 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

Let's take a look at what Anet did here.

1. People were botting.
2. Anet is made aware of this.
3. Anet hires technical staff to detect these bots.
4. Anet bans the botters.

This sounds like a fantastic job on Anet's part to me.

Let me modify this to reality:

1. People were botting.
2. Anet is made aware of this.
~6 months pass, problem becomes an epidemic~
4. Anet bans the botters.
5. Anet hires technical staff to detect these bots.

It could have been stopped immediately after 2.