Nerf DwG - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

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10 Jan 2011 at 09:17 - 321

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Nerfing the FotM farm is like playing popamole. The problem is with degenerate PvE areas that boil down to 'do lots AoE damage' and nothing but. Short of a total revamp of high end PvE on the order of the HM update, nothing else to be done is worthwhile. Unfortunately, I highly doubt Anet will be investing that much effort into fixing GW1 in the twilight of its years.

^This. PvE as a whole is not designed to be challenging, so it never will.

aspi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

eeew

N/Rt

10 Jan 2011 at 12:28 - 322

Is dwg ever used outside doa(not those courier runs pulease) anywhere by anyone? If it lets people without the skills or opertunity to do doa why not? There are sc teams without it doing it in so much less time nerfing this one skill should not even be debated.

Also about Shadow form, I never done it so dont know if its easy or not, it's just that imo the skill is lame and should be removed from the game.

Hobbs

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

Organised Spam [OS]

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10 Jan 2011 at 18:18 - 323

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Smerf

Get a ranger or warrior and thats GG. SF is not "easy" to run.

Herp...no. FoWSC has heaps of Shadow Warriors and Rangers right from the start and an SF tank works fine.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

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10 Jan 2011 at 18:45 - 324

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Your excuses against it are also pretty feeble.

You haven't given one reason it's a balanced skill, it's just not "hurting" enough of the game. It's not just DoA, look at the skill itself: it's an over-buffed CWD. any sane balance would have kept something of either cost, activation or recharge instead of bottoming them out and cranking up AP and radius.

Let's look at an example of balance, non-elites with same functionality:

Quote:

Shadow of Fear: 10/2/5. Adjacent radius.

Meekness: 15/2/15/17%hp sac. Area radius.

Another, an elite vs. non-elite, similar functionality:

Quote:

Suffering: 15/1/10. Degen. Nearby radius.
Lingering Curse: 15/1/10. Keeps degen, adds reduced healing. Same radius.

Do you see how these skills, when upgraded, don't become several times more powerful at a fraction of the cost, allowing back-to-back usage, and have no other restrictions or penalties? Power is balanced, not lop-sided.

Also see: SF, compared to any other skill in the game that can block spells. Even Final Fantasy had this balanced; Reflect would bounce *any* spell off you, not make you nearly invincible for only 5 MP.

killerbot3009

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2007

the beaster

the Gold Fish [GOLD]

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10 Jan 2011 at 22:56 - 325

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travaail

Destructive was glaive is far too overpowered for normal mode and allows people to do mindless domain of anguish runs with no more skill required than ursan.

needs to be nerfed.

it is an awesome skill, and doesnt need nerfing....also it works well in HM too...

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

11 Jan 2011 at 00:55 - 326

Quote:

You haven't given one reason it's a balanced skill, it's just not "hurting" enough of the game. It's not just DoA, look at the skill itself: it's an over-buffed CWD. any sane balance would have kept something of either cost, activation or recharge instead of bottoming them out and cranking up AP and radius.

Yes, and you could say the same thing for everything added since Nightfall. Your point?

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

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11 Jan 2011 at 03:57 - 327

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Yes, and you could say the same thing for everything added since Nightfall. Your point?

I say the same thing about PvE skills, too: it's all power creep while much of the skills in the game rot. That's ok in everyone's opinion, apparently, because oh look: candy. What were we talking about?

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

Belgium

Club of a Thousand Pandas [LOD???]

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11 Jan 2011 at 16:14 - 328

Sorry I missed so much of this jolly conversation, but got banned for 5 days, so missed quite a lot.. Read over most of it, and it looks like we still got the same ideas, so gonna throw mine in again.

If a trained chimp can beat a game's Elite areas, in whatever mode you want, there are serious issues going on about the quality of gameplay and the tactics used to get it done.

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

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12 Jan 2011 at 11:08 - 329

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Also see: SF, compared to any other skill in the game that can block spells.

Yes SF is horribly OP compared to the other enchants that block spells but DwG looks like a reg skill to SF.

People here keep claiming that DwG is so OP but it takes four of them to clear DoA in two hours. Four SF make UW HM possible in 45 minutes and FoW HM in 25 minutes which were 3-4 hour elite areas back in the day but everyone keeps saying take SF out and I /uninstall. It has become apparent to me that all people here opposing DwG are doing so because it is localized to DoA and just want it to be nerfed so armbrace prices will skyrocket and put them out of reach of the normal players hands to sell to them. I seriously think its time for this thread to be closed.

Bright Star Shine

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12 Jan 2011 at 11:32 - 330

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Yes SF is horribly OP compared to the other enchants that block spells but DwG looks like a reg skill to SF.

People here keep claiming that DwG is so OP but it takes four of them to clear DoA in two hours. Four SF make UW HM possible in 45 minutes and FoW HM in 25 minutes which were 3-4 hour elite areas back in the day but everyone keeps saying take SF out and I /uninstall. It has become apparent to me that all people here opposing DwG are doing so because it is localized to DoA and just want it to be nerfed so armbrace prices will skyrocket and put them out of reach of the normal players hands to sell to them. I seriously think its time for this thread to be closed.

I don't think it's that much about the armbrace prices anymore. tbh, I can't be bothered, I've made a nice pile of ecto's so far, doing DoASC and got 50/50 HoM, so really can't be bothered with what happens next. It is the same with most of the DoASC ppl I think. And as Impulsion has already pointed out, the armbrace prices have somewhat stabilized themselves.
48.4,8= 230,4k
24.8k = 192k
Which makes sense, if you look at the amount of armbraces in the game right now, compared to then. Things lose value over time if they're farmed (BEST example EVER = Elemental Swords: from 1xx-2xx ecto one week for a q9 to 5k now. They Skyrocketed and Plumited worse than anything I have ever seen in this game.)

What most people are bothered about is that DoA is reduced to a mash-your-face-against-your-keyboard-gg-you-win-Mode that is even worse than Ursan, because it's exactly the same faceroll, but it works even less good. Ursan was the equivalent of what iddqd was in Doom. Read my above post for the best explanation that sums up most of the people's frustrations about what this skill has reduced the game to.

matter of time

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2010

12 Jan 2011 at 12:36 - 331

don't like DWG don't play it, don't like SF (obby flesh and spell braker too), don't play it but i am very curious how you are gonna handle UW or DOA HM then ... well sure it is possible but at what cost? hundreds of fails until you will find the way that gives you a chance to do it depending to the some extent on luck ... I play for fun and relax ... i use in real life skills and economy but that just me ... but plese don't be a garden's dog ...

NerfHerder

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2010

12 Jan 2011 at 12:37 - 332

DwG is just as mindless as most melee builds and half the builds in Trenchway to use. The same principle is used in ANY caster spike build. Half the team does support and half the team spams their damage skills. A spirit spammer is even more mindless, 1-7, then they usually dont have to do anything for 30-60 seconds. Nerf DwG, and something just as mindless will take its place.

The comparison to Ursan is flawed. Like many have already said, Ursan was used for everything, DwG is not. When you see GLF DwG for (insert anything but DoA), DwG might need to be reevaluated for a rebalance.

With all the mindless OP builds in existence in GW, you cant tell me this thread is anything less than a QQfest about armbrace prices falling.

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

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12 Jan 2011 at 12:41 - 333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

I don't think it's that much about the armbrace prices anymore. tbh, I can't be bothered, I've made a nice pile of ecto's so far, doing DoASC and got 50/50 HoM, so really can't be bothered with what happens next. It is the same with most of the DoASC ppl I think. And as Impulsion has already pointed out, the armbrace prices have somewhat stabilized themselves.
48.4,8= 230,4k
24.8k = 192k
Which makes sense, if you look at the amount of armbraces in the game right now, compared to then. Things lose value over time if they're farmed (BEST example EVER = Elemental Swords: from 1xx-2xx ecto one week for a q9 to 5k now. They Skyrocketed and Plumited worse than anything I have ever seen in this game.)

What most people are bothered about is that DoA is reduced to a mash-your-face-against-your-keyboard-gg-you-win-Mode that is even worse than Ursan, because it's exactly the same faceroll, but it works even less good. Ursan was the equivalent of what iddqd was in Doom. Read my above post for the best explanation that sums up most of the people's frustrations about what this skill has reduced the game to.

Seriously think about it, if dwg was nerfed armbraces would go up somewhat after a while because there would be zero pugs farming DoA for their armbrace to fill HoM. It would be all the hardcore DoA guilds doing it and selling them to the peeps that need em. Not to mention I know plenty of people that have farmed full sets of tormented weapons and im sure they are far from the only ones so plenty of armbraces would be sucked from the market to stimulate a price increase. We have close to 1 year before GW2 prob hits the shelves so that gives plenty of time to watch armbraces go up and reap the benefits plenty.

The only reason the Ele Sword went down from xxx ecto to 5k is because of an expansion release. Over farming did have something to do with it but the developers of EoTN made the drop rate from raptors far too generous with the sword. About 98% of the cause of the ele swords fall from grace was the release of EoTN. Same thing happened with the Stygian Reaver.

DwG has been the meta in DoA for years now. Thats pretty much the only reason this thread exists is because people are getting bored. There has been no new expansion for nearly 4 years so they are QQing about the current content and the skills involved. We were getting an expansion every year so no one bitched about the last ones mindless farming of the content.

I have been doing urgoz and deep for close to 5 years. When these 2 elite dungeons came out they were quite difficult, now it doesn't matter if I do a different profession or if the whole team is using a different set up its still boring as hell and mindless. Same thing happened to me for UWSC, FoWSC and for DoA. Wont matter if DwG gets nerfed, another mindless build that requires only button mashing, a mouse and a keyboard will take its place and prob make the run last an hour longer, and why should they nerf DwG because you have a pile of ectos? Let other people get a legit chance as well.

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

Belgium

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12 Jan 2011 at 13:19 - 334

Trust me, the armbraces wouldn't go up more than 1-2ecto's if it got nerfed. They would spike for a couple days, but DoASC gives quite a good influx of Armbraces. And tbh, we've been getting a lot of ex-DwG'ers in our guild who say they were sick of the mindlessness. They are accepted without any prejudice and we are always happy to teach people, as long as they take the effort to listen, and at least admit it when they screw something up.

DwG got many people to start liking DoA, and if it gets nerfed, I think a lot of ppl will turn to DoASC guild before the new mindless PUG build is released. Perhaps a couple of new guilds will sprout out of the ground. Although only a small percentage of the PUGs will go through the effort, but it will make up through the faster rate of getting armbraces.

And @ Nerfherder, yes DoASC is equally mindless, I can do it on automode if I'm spiker/UA/Bonder/Recall tank (not perfect on 1 tank roll yet, gotta get that one down before I can run /automode there too^^) but first you need to know what you're doing. The new players need to focus very well, be able to listen to coordinated commands (which I generally completely ignore, and choose my own spike target cause I trust my own judgment better :P) so they really do have to put some brainpower in it. And tactics constantly change (we did a COMPLETE revise of our tactics recently, and we failed a lot at first, but now we get better times though) so there is some change in the dullness. DwG is always the same, always the same tactics, etc etc.

We always find newer and cooler ways to it (although they are not always faster

) And fissure, if you read this, it is NOT fishway, you little tactic-stealing bitch.

thedukesd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2009

12 Jan 2011 at 13:30 - 335

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymous

If you are going to nerf DwG, nerf permasins and all AoE casters.

Name an elementalist area efect skill that has the same range (better said can hit the same number of mobs), has armour penetration, has the same or lower activation time, has same or lower recharge time, has same or lower energy cost, don't cause exhastions if some requirements are not meet as it happens in dwg case (it needs to have all of them in the same time).

Regarding DoA becoming an ghost town without dwg. Before dwg was changed it was not a ghost town. You were still able to find people to party and do that area. Atm DoA is no longer an elite area.
How many people u can find in Deep, Urgoz when it's not zb?

If you want to do an experiment go there an try to find a balanced party to do DoA (100% random people) when it's not zb. Good luck finding a tank that knows to tank...

Anyway DwG is not the only skill that is completly bad designed there are several others...

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

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12 Jan 2011 at 13:58 - 336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Trust me, the armbraces wouldn't go up more than 1-2ecto's if it got nerfed. They would spike for a couple days, but DoASC gives quite a good influx of Armbraces. And tbh, we've been getting a lot of ex-DwG'ers in our guild who say they were sick of the mindlessness. They are accepted without any prejudice and we are always happy to teach people, as long as they take the effort to listen, and at least admit it when they screw something up.

DwG got many people to start liking DoA, and if it gets nerfed, I think a lot of ppl will turn to DoASC guild before the new mindless PUG build is released. Perhaps a couple of new guilds will sprout out of the ground. Although only a small percentage of the PUGs will go through the effort, but it will make up through the faster rate of getting armbraces.

And @ Nerfherder, yes DoASC is equally mindless, I can do it on automode if I'm spiker/UA/Bonder/Recall tank (not perfect on 1 tank roll yet, gotta get that one down before I can run /automode there too^^) but first you need to know what you're doing. The new players need to focus very well, be able to listen to coordinated commands (which I generally completely ignore, and choose my own spike target cause I trust my own judgment better :P) so they really do have to put some brainpower in it. And tactics constantly change (we did a COMPLETE revise of our tactics recently, and we failed a lot at first, but now we get better times though) so there is some change in the dullness. DwG is always the same, always the same tactics, etc etc.

We always find newer and cooler ways to it (although they are not always faster

) And fissure, if you read this, it is NOT fishway, you little tactic-stealing bitch.

Its all fine and good if you want to do DoAsc with your guild/ally. You sound like you also don't care about the price of armbraces but why do you want DwG nerfed? DwG allows peeps to have access to an elite area w/o leaving their friends behind to join a doasc guild/ally. The ppl who are bored with it and dont care about their current guild have an option to join a doasc anyways and should let it be. The only reason to take DwG away from casual players is the chance to make armbraces go up and make some extra $. Let them keep DwG.

I just dont see them nerfing it at this late in the game so might as well let it be.

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

Belgium

Club of a Thousand Pandas [LOD???]

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12 Jan 2011 at 15:15 - 337

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Its all fine and good if you want to do DoAsc with your guild/ally. You sound like you also don't care about the price of armbraces but why do you want DwG nerfed? DwG allows peeps to have access to an elite area w/o leaving their friends behind to join a doasc guild/ally. The ppl who are bored with it and dont care about their current guild have an option to join a doasc anyways and should let it be. The only reason to take DwG away from casual players is the chance to make armbraces go up and make some extra $. Let them keep DwG.

I just dont see them nerfing it at this late in the game so might as well let it be.

I don't like it because it's the worst faceroll in the history of GW, worse than Ursan because it works less good.

I can be a bit of an elitist when it comes to stuff like that, I want people to use at least some sort of tactics, some sort of effort. I hate the argument that now low-level players can get the high-end items too, because they can get it in hundreds of ways, but this one is just morally bad. Again, a retarded inbred, blindfolded monkey can do it with its feet tied to it's ears and still be better than the average player.

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

12 Jan 2011 at 17:18 - 338

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

I don't like it because it's the worst faceroll in the history of GW, worse than Ursan because it works less good.

I can be a bit of an elitist when it comes to stuff like that, I want people to use at least some sort of tactics, some sort of effort. I hate the argument that now low-level players can get the high-end items too, because they can get it in hundreds of ways, but this one is just morally bad. Again, a retarded inbred, blindfolded monkey can do it with its feet tied to it's ears and still be better than the average player.

Hardly the "worst faceroll in history of GW". Anyone role besides the tank in DoAsc is equally mindless....wait for tank to ball...1.2.3.4....well u get the picture. I find it very hard for one to complain about DwG when they use SF. Now if you want challenge try doing DoA like Barbie Pryncess' guild/team....w/o and spell protection and w/o DwG. If you did that...then I could possibly see room for one to complain, but not when one exploits the OP of SF then complains about OP of DwG. It really does seem rather hypocritical.

Gabriel of Ravn

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Virginia

None, retired to GW2.

W/A

12 Jan 2011 at 18:02 - 339

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Hardly the "worst faceroll in history of GW". Anyone role besides the tank in DoAsc is equally mindless....wait for tank to ball...1.2.3.4....well u get the picture. I find it very hard for one to complain about DwG when they use SF. Now if you want challenge try doing DoA like Barbie Pryncess' guild/team....w/o and spell protection and w/o DwG. If you did that...then I could possibly see room for one to complain, but not when one exploits the OP of SF then complains about OP of DwG. It really does seem rather hypocritical.

This is true I took some friends who have never been to DoA before I was tanking I told them what to do which skills to grab blah blah took about 1 hour probably would have gone quicker with vent but oh well I just wanted to help them with their HoM.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

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12 Jan 2011 at 18:57 - 340

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Yes SF is horribly OP compared to the other enchants that block spells but DwG looks like a reg skill to SF.

No one is saying DwG is as OP and damaging to the game as SF. I'm strictly comparing skills of a similar type. DwG is powerful, cheap, spammy AoE damage and makes a mockery of an elite area. A skill does not have to be so OP as SF to be considered for a nerf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

It has become apparent to me that all people here opposing DwG are doing so because it is localized to DoA and just want it to be nerfed so armbrace prices will skyrocket and put them out of reach of the normal players hands to sell to them.

Please read previous posts. I couldn't care less about economics, though I wonder if it's a reason this skill is being defended. DwG is a lazy bone thrown out there because comprehensive balance isn't going to happen without an exodus by players after their candy is taken away.

Bright Star Shine

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Belgium

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12 Jan 2011 at 23:10 - 341

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Hardly the "worst faceroll in history of GW". Anyone role besides the tank in DoAsc is equally mindless....wait for tank to ball...1.2.3.4....well u get the picture. I find it very hard for one to complain about DwG when they use SF. Now if you want challenge try doing DoA like Barbie Pryncess' guild/team....w/o and spell protection and w/o DwG. If you did that...then I could possibly see room for one to complain, but not when one exploits the OP of SF then complains about OP of DwG. It really does seem rather hypocritical.

Yes, it is, once you know what you're doing. If you got people that don't know shit about what's going on, stuff's gonna fail.

The big difference is, with SF tanks and stuff, you've got such a diversity of tactics. I know of at least 4 different tactics that are being run in veil, and some are COMPLETELY different. Same with gloom etc. I run with different guilds, because I've got friends here and there, so I've seen the differences.

And lol @ the reference to [ToA] (no offense Barbie, you know I like you

) but that's hardly done out of principle. They do normal DoASC too, with SF tanks and stuff. Just not on such an insane basis as us or [Zraw] for example. And they do balanced DoA for fun, just to prove you can, to make a statement, and I respect that. It's like us doing random retarded builds run in dungeons, just to make a statement, that the meta isn't what you NEED to be doing, people just do it out of lazyness. They don't want to think about what they're doing. (for the record, random retarded builds are awesome and a guaranteed laugh^^ Just a hint) And even Barbie invited me to do with DoA with them too, but I never got to cause I was doing other shit, and I'm pretty sure she wasn't inviting me to do balanced way (although I wouldn't mind, I'm kind of curious myself)

I advise you get to know the DoASC world before you start referring to shit you don't know anything about. And besides, Barbie was in [ToYs] and [GS] and occasionally goes on runs with us (although after her last rage, some people are not so happy anymore

) So she's been doing DoASC a lot longer than myself, and since before DwG was the meta, so again, know what you're talking about..

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

13 Jan 2011 at 17:01 - 342

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

I advise you get to know the DoASC world before you start referring to shit you don't know anything about. And besides, Barbie was in [ToYs] and [GS] and occasionally goes on runs with us (although after her last rage, some people are not so happy anymore

) So she's been doing DoASC a lot longer than myself, and since before DwG was the meta, so again, know what you're talking about..

I'm pretty sure it is obvious.....Complaining about one skill being OP in an area when one uses a skill that is even more OP in the same area seems hypo-cri-ti-cal. Even a DwG team needs to know where to go, not to over aggro, etc and I'm sure if a chimp can learn that they can learn to wait for a ping and spike.
Nothing prevents one from creating more challenge for themselves in an area. If you want more challenge you can have it. How does PuGs runing DwG effect anyone else? I can only see two reasons.....a) greed and b) self-absorbtion.

ex. a) I have a lot of ambraces and the price has been cheapened by DwG...I want it nerfed.

ex. b) I pride myself on my mastery of an area and don't like others being able to complete it.....I want it nerfed and mom I told you, no crust on my pbj!!!

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

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13 Jan 2011 at 17:57 - 343

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

I'm pretty sure it is obvious.....Complaining about one skill being OP in an area when one uses a skill that is even more OP in the same area seems hypo-cri-ti-cal. Even a DwG team needs to know where to go, not to over aggro, etc and I'm sure if a chimp can learn that they can learn to wait for a ping and spike.
Nothing prevents one from creating more challenge for themselves in an area. If you want more challenge you can have it. How does PuGs runing DwG effect anyone else? I can only see two reasons.....a) greed and b) self-absorbtion.

ex. a) I have a lot of ambraces and the price has been cheapened by DwG...I want it nerfed.

ex. b) I pride myself on my mastery of an area and don't like others being able to complete it.....I want it nerfed and mom I told you, no crust on my pbj!!!

The funny part is, I never claimed DwG is OP, I've even stated multiple times that it's a shit skill, because it works less good then other skills, therefor making the meta even worse, because it can be done better.

And, I am sort of guilty of the elitist part, but I don't mind PUGs doing DoA, if you read my posts instead of randomly flaming me, you would've known that, I just don't like the fact that they do it in such an utterly mindless and retarded way.

So again, do some research please, before you start accusing me from al sorts of things.

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

13 Jan 2011 at 19:03 - 344

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

The funny part is, I never claimed DwG is OP, I've even stated multiple times that it's a shit skill, because it works less good then other skills, therefor making the meta even worse, because it can be done better.

And, I am sort of guilty of the elitist part, but I don't mind PUGs doing DoA, if you read my posts instead of randomly flaming me, you would've known that, I just don't like the fact that they do it in such an utterly mindless and retarded way.

So again, do some research please, before you start accusing me from al sorts of things.

Okay, so I went back and read some of your posts. Yes, you nvr said it was OP, you just want to nerf a skill just b/c you don't like that ppl use it to complete DoA. I don't know which is worse...wanting to nerf a skill for (non)OPness or just wanting it nerfed b/c u don't like other ppl using it. Once again if it does not effect u 1 ioda...why do u care?

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

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13 Jan 2011 at 21:29 - 345

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

I'm pretty sure it is obvious.....Complaining about one skill being OP in an area when one uses a skill that is even more OP in the same area seems hypo-cri-ti-cal. Even a DwG team needs to know where to go, not to over aggro, etc and I'm sure if a chimp can learn that they can learn to wait for a ping and spike.
Nothing prevents one from creating more challenge for themselves in an area. If you want more challenge you can have it. How does PuGs runing DwG effect anyone else? I can only see two reasons.....a) greed and b) self-absorbtion.

ex. a) I have a lot of ambraces and the price has been cheapened by DwG...I want it nerfed.

ex. b) I pride myself on my mastery of an area and don't like others being able to complete it.....I want it nerfed and mom I told you, no crust on my pbj!!!

Quote:

Okay, so I went back and read some of your posts. Yes, you nvr said it was OP, you just want to nerf a skill just b/c you don't like that ppl use it to complete DoA. I don't know which is worse...wanting to nerf a skill for (non)OPness or just wanting it nerfed b/c u don't like other ppl using it. Once again if it does not effect u 1 ioda...why do u care?

Not personally attacking, but when people say "why do you care if people use X?" it makes no sense. Lots of things were nerfed in PvE and weren't "hurting" anyone. That just sounds like a PvP argument; PvE balance has different reasoning behind it. Monsters don't talk back, so they can be romped with ridiculous metas and people will defend everything, because, well, who cares about them?

We can't have a discussion on PvE balance if that's how it's going to sound.

Apok

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2010

13 Jan 2011 at 22:04 - 346

Considering it allows every profession to be involved in the run, I do not have a problem with it.

Though, I agree that it's more easymode than ursan and 600 smite combined. Maybe add a delay to the damage or just make it so the damage applies when you cast it, not when you drop the pot.

/shrugs shoulders

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

Belgium

Club of a Thousand Pandas [LOD???]

E/

13 Jan 2011 at 22:13 - 347

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Okay, so I went back and read some of your posts. Yes, you nvr said it was OP, you just want to nerf a skill just b/c you don't like that ppl use it to complete DoA. I don't know which is worse...wanting to nerf a skill for (non)OPness or just wanting it nerfed b/c u don't like other ppl using it. Once again if it does not effect u 1 ioda...why do u care?

I care because I don't like people running this, because it's reducing DoA to a giant moshpit (which IRL isn't bad) where you spam 1-2-1-2-1-2 and drop your shit. It's the easy button for nooby players to get the high-end items. Again, I don't mind new players getting the elite items, or armbraces, it's just the way they get it. It's just tossing the bone, it's supposed to be high-end items, an "Elite" area, there shouldn't be such an easybutton. If they run balanced way like ToA does, I don't mind (no idea what their builds are though) even if they can clear it in HM in 1h with those builds, because those builds will require coordinated gameplay and at least some mental effort. They will "earn" their armbraces instead of just being handed to them.

Hope that clarifies it, dunno if my structure is understandable..

Just Sai

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2009

aotearoa

Mo/

13 Jan 2011 at 22:16 - 348

Quote:

Not personally attacking, but when people say "why do you care if people use X?" it makes no sense.

Quote:

ex. a) I have a lot of ambraces and the price has been cheapened by DwG...I want it nerfed.

and the truth is revealed

how self centered is that?
greed much?

the only other plausible reason to have issues in PVE would be an offclass being refused pug and qqing out of spite

time is short, torment weps are expensive for new players
lay off, not everyones been here for 5 years and still a millionare from ursan

Mcsnake85

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

Italy

E/P

14 Jan 2011 at 10:41 - 349

I said it 100 post ago that it was only for ambrace....lol

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

14 Jan 2011 at 19:45 - 350

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Sai

and the truth is revealed

how self centered is that?
greed much?

You were quoted two different people there, and I'm not sure what you were trying to point out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Sai

time is short, torment weps are expensive for new players lay off, not everyones been here for 5 years and still a millionare from ursan

This game is not ending when GW2 is released, and people that have been here for 3-5 years aren't all millionaires.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Considering it allows every profession to be involved in the run, I do not have a problem with it.

So, they could have made it so anyone can /A perma?

Quote:

Though, I agree that it's more easymode than ursan and 600 smite combined. Maybe add a delay to the damage or just make it so the damage applies when you cast it, not when you drop the pot.

How about bumping up energy, activation or recharge to properly reflect the power it has? An elementalist spends two seconds attuning, and a ranger spends two seconds preparing arrows. Is it so bloody impossible to suggest a rit have a cost for being so powerful?

Iron Smerf

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2010

Terra Noise [Zraw]

A/P

20 Jan 2011 at 04:48 - 351

Elite areas are supposed to take skill, not take less effort than NM missions :/ . Team co-operation should be present in all areas to succeed, if a rit can just spam 1,2,1,2,1,2 for 20 minutes.. wheres the timing, cooperation, skill, teamwork? There really is none..

/signed again

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

20 Jan 2011 at 05:49 - 352

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Smerf

Elite areas are supposed to take skill, not take less effort than NM missions :/ . Team co-operation should be present in all areas to succeed, if a rit can just spam 1,2,1,2,1,2 for 20 minutes.. wheres the timing, cooperation, skill, teamwork? There really is none..

/signed again

As opposed to one guy tanking, and everyone else spamming? It's the same concept as real DoAsc builds, minus the tank and effectiveness. Got any more fallacious logic there buddy?

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

20 Jan 2011 at 19:17 - 353

Its way different, don't talk if u got no idea what ur talking about.(Del)
Btw, DwG holds fow record; there u go all ignorant people who say it's only used in doa...

Avalanche

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2009

20 Jan 2011 at 20:02 - 354

I don't see a problem with it at all.
Sure it's sorta easy, been doing doa runs last few weeks.. yet theres fails sometimes, rare but it happens. Also they mainly run in NM, in HM i barely got through unless it was a guild team who took me with them. So without dedicating alot of time into it, you wont get rich by playing dwg in nm doa. Runs also take up to 2 hours + preperation + people never have cons lol

I think it's a good way for pugs, imagine it was nerfed and some new build came up thats harder.. then as a casual gamer you wont really get any runs going and not everyone wants to join a SC guild. Of course people could just run balanced teams then and try to beat the elite area but honestly.. who would still it? it would be as deserted as Urgoz and Deep is..

And i dont see how manly way is any harder, the only guy who really has to be cautions is the T1, the warriors just press 12345 ect. as monk you rarely ever haveto press a button at all. The rt just keeps his spirits up. Neco spams his combo once too. MT just balls mob up and done.

It's alot more user friendly this way + the people who invest alot of time into playing and go into SC guilds still get to be richer. Considering the faster times + HM they make 3 times as much money as all the pugs, within same time. And they also probably run some mesmer spike instead of dwg, which i doubt requires more thinking.

However nerf all the sc possiblities or leave it be. (thats if you consider a 2hour run a sc)

NerfHerder

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2010

20 Jan 2011 at 20:24 - 355

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Its way different, don't talk if u got no idea what ur talking about.(Del)
Btw, DwG holds fow record; there u go all ignorant people who say it's only used in doa...

/sigh

The FoW with the DwG used Shadow Form sins. No way near the same build. According to the anti-DwG crowd, they used "skill".

Del does know what he is talking about. Its just another caster spike. The fact that you can clear NM DoA with 3 players and heros in the same time it takes Glaiveway speaks volumes about how "OP" it is. When 6 DwGs and two Monks start dominating all the HM SCs as one big mob, then we can talk.

What we really should be discussing is why is it even possible for a SF/ER Prot to solo an entire area and pull huge mobs without dying. Even if it does take skill. I congratulate the ones who discovered how to SC HM areas with clever tactics and parlor tricks like SF. But, the fact that it can be done at all screams for a nerf. I dont call it teamwork when you can run off without the rest of your team and complete areas/quests. At least DwG has all 8 players working together and they actually clear most of the foes in the area.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

20 Jan 2011 at 22:02 - 356

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Its way different, don't talk if u[sic] got no idea what ur[sic] talking about.(Del)

Are you really daft enough to say I don't know what i'm talking about when you actually believe casterspam in doasc builds is more skillful than casterspamming in dwg builds? You're a very silly person.

esjay

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2011

P/

20 Jan 2011 at 23:09 - 357

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

All you QQ'ers are focusing your whining in the wrong direction. What about the Imbagon?! You all realize that's the only reason these DwG's can do what they do right?! RIGHT?!

Hey!
Lay off the Paragons.
We have nothing else.
Kay?
I'm serious...

Grj

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

20 Jan 2011 at 23:18 - 358

As long as consets remain in this game I don't know how anybody can take these nerf x threads seriously.

And lol @ the it makes a mockery of an elite area crowd, where was you all when people where 55in it up in the UW?

Too busy drowning in ecto's to care huh

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

21 Jan 2011 at 02:45 - 359

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avalanche

I think it's a good way for pugs, imagine it was nerfed and some new build came up thats harder.. then as a casual gamer you wont really get any runs going and not everyone wants to join a SC guild. Of course people could just run balanced teams then and try to beat the elite area but honestly.. who would still it? it would be as deserted as Urgoz and Deep is..

"Elite" should have some meaning to its name. Spam-dropping item bundles is not elite; stacking cons on top of perma spell immunity is not elite. Ideally, these areas should present challenges to every role in a party and not allow such silliness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grj

And lol @ the it makes a mockery of an elite area crowd, where was you all when people where 55in it up in the UW?

Too busy drowning in ecto's to care huh

Where was I, arriving at TotA in the old days? Enraged that two professions ran the table, I just kept it to myself because I didn't know anyone or about the forums. Either way, it stank then and it stinks now.

By the way, I've only ever had one ecto drop in my few visits to UW. The assumptions of others are getting tiring, like this thread.

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

Belgium

Club of a Thousand Pandas [LOD???]

E/

21 Jan 2011 at 03:23 - 360

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

The assumptions of others are getting tiring, like this thread.

Yep, even I got sick of it.. I think most of your arguments are very valid, it would make it deserted, DoASC as we do it is also a bit mindless once you get the hold of it, some people just want it gone out of greed etc etc..

But my point still rests, that DwG as it is used now, is a mockery, even if you call SF a mockery too (although, some parts about tanking are everything but easy, trust me) because it is practically iddqd.

Rest aside the DoA concept, or any SC concept it is used in actually, if you look at the skill itself, do you still dare say that it is not OP? You can pump out 100+ Lightning damage every 5 secs, with a 3/4 casting time, and 5 energy cost? Not only that, but it gives you 20% armor penetration to all other ritualist skills too, combined with cracked armor, you get a considerable amount of damage there, and for a bargain. Only downside? you gotta stand in the middle of the mob, but there are enough skills who can take care of that.

So, in DoA, the skill sucks, but it is still a WAY too powerful skill which should be revised. I mean, it's only slight counterpart, Grasping was Kuurong, deals a lot less damage, costs 15 energy and has a 20 sec cooldown, only extra thing it does is KD shit, but that's hardly a bonus..

Give me an example, of ANY skill that can pump out a similar amount of damage, with a similar cooldown/energy cost etc, and we will talk again.