Guild Wars Guru

Physical damage should not be 5x stronger than elemental/caster - balance needed

5 pages • Page 5
The Josip
The Josip
Wilds Pathfinder
• #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManlyMan View Post
I like how OP mysteriously disappeared.
Because I am tired and think what on earth am I doing here.
Because I feel like I'm surrounded by screaming monkeys in a forest, and since I don't want to get banned or insult people, I decided to be quiet and not read the thread.


I am no longer interested in dialogue. As for my monologue, this is how I see this thread:


Me: Pyhsicals do tons more damage
X: Physicals can't do so much damage, just look at all blind and blablabla. I have theorycrafted it perfectly, look at my paper.
Me: Blind in PvE?
X: I saw it on wiki, there are skills that inflict blind, ffs 1121212121!!!! so many, also weakness also hexes! you be wrong lad! Theorycrafting ftw!
Me: No, there's some blindness in Oola's lab and those Nightfall plants, that's about it.
X: Noob! You can't win blind! And Faintheartedness! Therycrafting forever!
Me: With condition removal that your team has, and even without it, melee will do so much more damage anyway. Despite the lack of ideal conditions. Not all conditions are equal for casters as well (ether seals, roaring ethers, various interrupts, vow of silence dervishes..). After vanquishing all 3 campaigns, it is obvious that on average melee does much more damage. Net damage.
X: But there's blind! And all other stuff! Waaaaah!"1212121!!!!#"%$%! How can you not get it? You can't do any damage if there's blind! So casters and melee are balanced in this way.
Me: I agree. Blinded melee does 10% damage which is in total equal to caster who does 100% damage.


Me: Physicals do tons more damage.
Y: And where's proof of that?
Me: *rolleyes* (how about play the game?)


Z: Mesmers are overpowered now
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: I heard someone did SC of Frostmaw!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: Roaring Ether clearly shows mesmers are overpowered!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: Ever seen a gimmick speedclear of area x?
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: It's really good in PvP!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
(and this goes on and on forever, it's like talking to a wall)

G: Behold! The iMesmer! OQZDAZkCT0AkAyATP2gIgpiIDA
Me #1: *deep sigh*
Me #2: (when I'm in the mood) So this is overpowered mesmer build? There are mesmer builds that are stronger than that but never mind let's see how it fares vs... say D/W. DW provides 82% permanent with SY damage reduction to other team members, as long as they are in earshot. Mistrust and CoP both antisynergize with Panic, WW depends on luck and that enemy lives 3 seconds (which is an eternity considering how fast DW is killing). In practice WW will not trigger most of the time. Arcane Conundrum is a joke, it's a theorycraft skill which, like WW, shows how slow casters really kill (yes I did actually try this skill and it's bad in general PvE for many reasons). Wandering Eye in itself is a great skill, if it wasn't for overpowered melee whose autoattack does more damage than this skill, and the fact that you're preventing a hit on your team that might be blocked anyway in one way or another which further decreases the value. Second thing is that biting casters a bit and biting melee a bit means that everyone dies bit by bit which is less effective than killing one foe (or group) first and then second afterwards. Known as target focus. So overall we have here a build that offers less protection than D/W, and far less damage, and this is overpowered mesmer build that makes the world tremble? Geez please don't roll D/W you might suffer a heart attack.


Me: Physicals do tons more damage.
T: Suck it up, you should be weak and what I play should be overpowered. It is the order of things.
Me: Whatever.


C: I'm Sceptic. I don't believe you, and your scientific methods are flawed, your data is incomplete, and you should dance around me for ages trying to convince me into something. I will not provide any better alternatives myself. I am Sceptic.
Me: Main characteristic of a sceptic is inability to understand.


S: Melee are overpowered only because of casters.
Me: And why are casters not overpowered because of melee? Ha? It's a team game. A team is likely to consist of casters and melee. If such team composition ends up in melee being overpowered, that's imbalance. It can be intended by design, but it's still overpowered.
S: Blabla. So you see, physicals alone can't do much.
Me: It's a team game. Stop theorycrafting for one second and go play the game. You'll notice around 7 other people/henchmen/heroes with you.


B: QQ more! Play something else! Who cares! Looooozer! $%$%"#! blurp
Me: *beasts*


K: I am not skilled in this game, but I am entitled to opinion. Blablablabla..
Me: Please, just refrain from comments. I don't care about your human rights.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MMSDome
Do you know from personal experience that magic is superior to physical damage? Is that the way it is in real life?
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
s
shadows of hob
Krytan Explorer
• #82
The Josip just won the thread.

He pretty much says exactly what I think about all these whiners and random players that think they have to start a thread about something that is not even a real problem. Melee is far superiour than casters, fact, wisper me ingame and I will show you if you don't believe it.

You can vanquish this whole game with an empty skillbar. If you want to do it the easy way, take all spirits there are+minions and go steamroll through any area.
Reformed
Reformed
Jungle Guide
• #83
Arcane Conundrum is a theorycraft skill? Lmfao, uninstall OP, you obviously don't know what you are doing on mesmer. I tell you what though...you remember when you first start Factions and Togo tells you in Minister Cho's Estate to wait for the patrol to split (and ball up)? Most things in the game behave that same way now put 2 and 2 together...
trankle
trankle
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadows of hob View Post
Melee is far superiour than casters, fact, wisper me ingame and I will show you if you don't believe it.

You can vanquish this whole game with an empty skillbar. If you want to do it the easy way, take all spirits there are+minions and go steamroll through any area.
Wait, melee is so superior that I can vanquish anywhere in the game with an empty bar, as long as I bring a whole party of casters? Got it.
Ugh
Ugh
Krytan Explorer
• #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
Me: No, there's some blindness in Oola's lab and those Nightfall plants, that's about it.
I've been playing through the campaigns again lately, and there really is much more anti-physical than anti-caster. Anti-caster stuff is generally quite rare while there's almost always at least one (usually more) type of anti-physical/melee per mob.

Tbh OP, I don't really know what you want (that could be because I haven't really read the thread, though ). The only nerfs for physicals that I'm definitely supportive of are an SY nerf, dagger nerf, and scythe/AoHM nerf and the only caster buff I'm definitely supportive of is one for eles' damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadows of hob View Post
The Josip just won the thread.
Really? Well, I guess that settles that.

Quote:
Melee is far superiour than casters, fact, wisper me ingame and I will show you if you don't believe it.
Ugh. How about you just post pics so we can all flame you for your demonstration?

Quote:
You can vanquish this whole game with an empty skillbar. If you want to do it the easy way, take all spirits there are+minions and go steamroll through any area.
You lost me. Physicals are so overpowered you can vanquish the whole game by using caster stuff like minions and spirits? Whose side are you on?
Lanier
Lanier
Desert Nomad
• #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
S: Melee are overpowered only because of casters.
Me: And why are casters not overpowered because of melee? Ha? It's a team game. A team is likely to consist of casters and melee. If such team composition ends up in melee being overpowered, that's imbalance. It can be intended by design, but it's still overpowered.
S: Blabla. So you see, physicals alone can't do much.
Me: It's a team game. Stop theorycrafting for one second and go play the game. You'll notice around 7 other people/henchmen/heroes with you.
I don't quite understand what you are saying in this bit of your monologue. You acknowledge that casters are what make melee overpowered, which is the primary reason why the rest of us have been saying it is ok that melee do more damage (post buffs) than casters. Are you saying that melee should also in some way provide buffs for casters in the same way casters provide buffs for melee? I don't think i understand what you are trying to say here...

Also, blind/block/anti-melee hexes/weakness/snares are pretty common in the game. Typically, it is the caster who removes these conditions or hexes from the physical.
NerfHerder
NerfHerder
Wilds Pathfinder
• #87
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Drunkard View Post
If you actually read his/her thread, you would realize that you can do oodles of damage as any prof./d, all you need is a few pve skills and scythe attacks. The damage is also similar or the exact same (with a blue/red rock candy) compated to the output wars or dervs with scythes can produce, with sins on top due to critical hits. Survivalbility is easily managed with a proper hero setup, though sins and wars have an advantage over the mesmer. How about testing a build before bashing it, mkay?
You basically restated everything I said in in my post. I dont know what your getting at. When you point it out, its constuctive, but when I point it out its bashing? I was just trying to say Mesmers are more effective as casters, and if you want to go melee, play a melee character(my opinion). Any caster using a scythe makes me go, WTF? anywho

Quote:
A few other balance issues are being worked on in parallel and will be included in the same build if they are testing well enough. These will NOT include major changes to the Dervish (and in particular scythes)-Preliminary Skill Update Notes - 23 April 2010
Anet is well aware of the /D + physicals phenomenon. It sounds like they are already working on it.

But if physicals are so powerful on thier own how come I dont see....

"Warrior LF 7 more physicals to go!"

SC and team builds consisting of all physicals?

Quote:
And why are casters not overpowered because of melee? Ha? It's a team game. A team is likely to consist of casters and melee. If such team composition ends up in melee being overpowered, that's imbalance. It can be intended by design, but it's still overpowered. -The Josip
I wouldnt call them overpowered, but alot of the pugs I join have at least one melee to soak up damage and tank for the group. Thats called teamwork. So in a sense, yes casters can benefit from having melee, and vice-versa. One doesnt work without the other, thats balance. From the beginning of GW casters and melee have had a great synergy. But, that doesnt stop alot of people from taking an all caster group and steamrolling through HM. The fact is, melee needs casters to survive and deal more than average damage, but casters dont need melee to accomplish the same goal. If anything, casters have the advantage.

Quote:
Z: Mesmers are overpowered now
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: I heard someone did SC of Frostmaw!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: Roaring Ether clearly shows mesmers are overpowered!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: Ever seen a gimmick speedclear of area x?
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: It's really good in PvP!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
(and this goes on and on forever, it's like talking to a wall)-The Josip
Me/E_Panic_Mesmer
Me/E_PvE_Domination_Mesmer
Me/any_PvE_Illusion_Mesmer
Me/any_Keystone_Mesmer

That should get you started.

Quote:
The Josip just won the thread.

He pretty much says exactly what I think about all these whiners and random players that think they have to start a thread about something that is not even a real problem. Melee is far superiour than casters, fact, wisper me ingame and I will show you if you don't believe it.

You can vanquish this whole game with an empty skillbar. If you want to do it the easy way, take all spirits there are+minions and go steamroll through any area. -shadows of hob
So to win an arguement, all you have to do is have one person agree with you?

Okay, ill grab my Mesmer, and you can grab any melee character you want. Then we can scrimmage to see who wins. Not fair? ok ill grab my Necro instead.

I would like to see screenshots of people vanquishing an entire campaign with all melee and no skills. But, I'm more likely to see a leprachaun at the end of a rainbow.
vamp08
vamp08
Krytan Explorer
• #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
Because I am tired and think what on earth am I doing here.
Because I feel like I'm surrounded by screaming monkeys in a forest, and since I don't want to get banned or insult people, I decided to be quiet and not read the thread.


I am no longer interested in dialogue. As for my monologue, this is how I see this thread:


Me: Pyhsicals do tons more damage
X: Physicals can't do so much damage, just look at all blind and blablabla. I have theorycrafted it perfectly, look at my paper.
Me: Blind in PvE?
X: I saw it on wiki, there are skills that inflict blind, ffs 1121212121!!!! so many, also weakness also hexes! you be wrong lad! Theorycrafting ftw!
Me: No, there's some blindness in Oola's lab and those Nightfall plants, that's about it.
X: Noob! You can't win blind! And Faintheartedness! Therycrafting forever!
Me: With condition removal that your team has, and even without it, melee will do so much more damage anyway. Despite the lack of ideal conditions. Not all conditions are equal for casters as well (ether seals, roaring ethers, various interrupts, vow of silence dervishes..). After vanquishing all 3 campaigns, it is obvious that on average melee does much more damage. Net damage.
X: But there's blind! And all other stuff! Waaaaah!"1212121!!!!#"%$%! How can you not get it? You can't do any damage if there's blind! So casters and melee are balanced in this way.
Me: I agree. Blinded melee does 10% damage which is in total equal to caster who does 100% damage.


Me: Physicals do tons more damage.
Y: And where's proof of that?
Me: *rolleyes* (how about play the game?)


Z: Mesmers are overpowered now
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: I heard someone did SC of Frostmaw!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: Roaring Ether clearly shows mesmers are overpowered!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: Ever seen a gimmick speedclear of area x?
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: It's really good in PvP!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
(and this goes on and on forever, it's like talking to a wall)

G: Behold! The iMesmer! OQZDAZkCT0AkAyATP2gIgpiIDA
Me #1: *deep sigh*
Me #2: (when I'm in the mood) So this is overpowered mesmer build? There are mesmer builds that are stronger than that but never mind let's see how it fares vs... say D/W. DW provides 82% permanent with SY damage reduction to other team members, as long as they are in earshot. Mistrust and CoP both antisynergize with Panic, WW depends on luck and that enemy lives 3 seconds (which is an eternity considering how fast DW is killing). In practice WW will not trigger most of the time. Arcane Conundrum is a joke, it's a theorycraft skill which, like WW, shows how slow casters really kill (yes I did actually try this skill and it's bad in general PvE for many reasons). Wandering Eye in itself is a great skill, if it wasn't for overpowered melee whose autoattack does more damage than this skill, and the fact that you're preventing a hit on your team that might be blocked anyway in one way or another which further decreases the value. Second thing is that biting casters a bit and biting melee a bit means that everyone dies bit by bit which is less effective than killing one foe (or group) first and then second afterwards. Known as target focus. So overall we have here a build that offers less protection than D/W, and far less damage, and this is overpowered mesmer build that makes the world tremble? Geez please don't roll D/W you might suffer a heart attack.


Me: Physicals do tons more damage.
T: Suck it up, you should be weak and what I play should be overpowered. It is the order of things.
Me: Whatever.


C: I'm Sceptic. I don't believe you, and your scientific methods are flawed, your data is incomplete, and you should dance around me for ages trying to convince me into something. I will not provide any better alternatives myself. I am Sceptic.
Me: Main characteristic of a sceptic is inability to understand.


S: Melee are overpowered only because of casters.
Me: And why are casters not overpowered because of melee? Ha? It's a team game. A team is likely to consist of casters and melee. If such team composition ends up in melee being overpowered, that's imbalance. It can be intended by design, but it's still overpowered.
S: Blabla. So you see, physicals alone can't do much.
Me: It's a team game. Stop theorycrafting for one second and go play the game. You'll notice around 7 other people/henchmen/heroes with you.


B: QQ more! Play something else! Who cares! Looooozer! $%$%"#! blurp
Me: *beasts*


K: I am not skilled in this game, but I am entitled to opinion. Blablablabla..
Me: Please, just refrain from comments. I don't care about your human rights.




I find your lack of faith disturbing.
I believe you were conceived not out of love; but of ignorace, tears and fail.

So, you are the worthy winner of such:
K
Kyp Jade
Jungle Guide
• #89
This is just one example I have to pull out of josips argument. I do agree however that playing melee is more rewarding than playing casters, but your points on mesmer skills are wrong. I somethings think you want the mesmer class to be something besides what it is. And for me I get way more damage on my mesmer in HM pve than I ever could on an ele. I can increase that damage a TON as well. Also keep in mind the mesmer is a support class. The mesmer class is more about team synergy, than self, look at skills like fevered dreams or fragility. The mesmer can cause thousands of damage in miliseconds depending on team synergy.

Now specifically to your skill arguments.
Josip, when you feel like playing a mesmer again and not a warrior or dervish, try putting mistrust and panic on the same bar. You seem to feel they antisynergize, they do not.

Mistrust checks skill activation at both spell start, and spell finish. Which means even if the enemy caster is in the middle of a mob of 1000000 enemies that all have panic on them, and are all screaming "!!". When you cast mistrust on the enemy, and it attempts to begin its spell cast, mistrust will trigger, doing big damage to the mob of 1000000 enemies. The only way panic could have anti synergy with mistrust is if you are trying to use mistrust as a interupt. Personally with a 1-2s cast time on mistrust depending on your fast cast level, I would use mistrust more like I would use diversion, in anticipation.

So you are very wrong, that is something I would consider perfect synergy between two skills, and I view mistrust as one of the strongest "nukes" a mesmer has.

Cry of pain and panic. Cry of pain was designed to be a direct damage nuke for the mesmer class. Its been toned down, but it is still a very excellent nuke. It has two parts the single target interupt, which is next to useless in pve, and the nuke, which is armor ignoring. Panic is a 11s aoe multi interupt hex. Useful, cry of pain is a nuke that needs a hex. Seems to me theres useful synergy there.

WW is useless, your right there. Arcane Conundrum is also terrible, but its good emanage if your team balls enemies.

Illusion magic has some of the most powerful hexes in the game pve wise. like fragility, wandering eye (which in pve is used as a nuke, you dont care about the interupted attack skill) Frustration, which when cast on a mob that has panic on him in a ball of enemies, will cause him to drop instantly.

You might feel casters dont do as well in pve, which is wierd since you play mesmer primary. I've played with your me/d build and I can tell you while its fun, its not the fastest killing build out there. You play a support class, Change your build to add synergy to your team, you should be more concerned with mesmer teambuild. I steamroll pve much faster with panic/frustration combo than you do with mesmer scythe.
Del
Del
Desert Nomad
• #90
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
Because I am tired and think what on earth am I doing here.
Because I feel like I'm surrounded by screaming monkeys in a forest, and since I don't want to get banned or insult people, I decided to be quiet and not read the thread.
I find this funny how you seem to be the most irrationally biased and unreasonable person in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post

Me: I agree. Blinded melee does 10% damage which is in total equal to caster who does 100% damage.
Bullshit exaggerated statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
Me: Physicals do tons more damage.
T: Suck it up, you should be weak and what I play should be overpowered. It is the order of things.
Me: Whatever.
not every class was built to be dps, complaining about a class not designed to dps, but has decent damage is pretty stupid, especially considering that the only thing warriors and sins are able to do well is to do damage, whereas mesmers/eles/necros/monks are designed to perform various functions that cause whatever the team is doing to succeed. Quit seeing things in a stupid, one dimensional, damage is all that counts manner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
C: I'm Sceptic. I don't believe you, and your scientific methods are flawed, your data is incomplete, and you should dance around me for ages trying to convince me into something. I will not provide any better alternatives myself. I am Sceptic.
Me: Main characteristic of a sceptic is inability to understand.
The main characteristic of a skeptic is to see through bullshit. Oh, and your scientific methods consist of making up bullshit, as proven by trankle in your necros vs. mesmers thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
S: Melee are overpowered only because of casters.
Me: And why are casters not overpowered because of melee? Ha? It's a team game. A team is likely to consist of casters and melee. If such team composition ends up in melee being overpowered, that's imbalance. It can be intended by design, but it's still overpowered.
S: Blabla. So you see, physicals alone can't do much.
Me: It's a team game. Stop theorycrafting for one second and go play the game. You'll notice around 7 other people/henchmen/heroes with you.
Melee hurt things, casters do support/some damage/healing/protting. if you only care about doing damage, roll melee and stop making bad threads on guru. If you want to play mesmer, stop seeing dps as your one and only goal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
K: I am not skilled in this game, but I am entitled to opinion. Blablablabla..
Me: Please, just refrain from comments. I don't care about your human rights.
Oh the irony.


Don't even know why i'm responding to this, such an obvious troll.
The Josip
The Josip
Wilds Pathfinder
• #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by NerfHerder
I was just trying to say Mesmers are more effective as casters
But they're not.

Why? Because theorycrafting doesn't vanquish areas, fighting vanquishes areas.

Quote:
Me/E_Panic_Mesmer
Me/E_PvE_Domination_Mesmer
Me/any_PvE_Illusion_Mesmer
Me/any_Keystone_Mesmer

That should get you started.
The best mesmer builds for general PvE, are in this order:

1. Psychic scythe Me/D
2. AP EVAS spammer
3. Ineptitude


When you say you consider those pvxwiki overpowered, it's in relation to what? They are inferior even to other mesmer builds, and even more to melee builds of others classes that we're talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Del
Don't even know why i'm responding to this, such an obvious troll.
Vade retro me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyp Jade
Also keep in mind the mesmer is a support class.
No, this is one of many misconceptions about mesmers. Eles have wards or ER prots/heals, Ritualists splinter and bunch of other stuff, monks tons of stuff, necromancers tons of stuff. These classes have many support skills. How many skills do mesmers cast on allies?

No, mesmers don't support.
Mesmers undermine.



Quote:
The mesmer class is more about team synergy, than self, look at skills like fevered dreams or fragility. The mesmer can cause thousands of damage in miliseconds depending on team synergy.
This is another misconception. Mesmers are the worse class when it comes to synergy. Not only do mesmers not have synergy with other team members, but even their best skills have antisynergy. If you decide to synergize mesmer with the group, you're going to dig into secondary profession, for start.

As for 'thousands of damage in miliseconds', that doesn't happen. FD frag mesmer in general PvE will be poor in damage, actually. He has solid effects and that's why some sometimes use it, but damage is poor. Moreover, it's a poor build vs stragglers.

Quote:
try putting mistrust and panic on the same bar. You seem to feel they antisynergize, they do not.
I meant that if the spell doesn't trigger because of Mistrust, the Panic effect doesn't trigger. So you're replacing AoE interrupt with AoE damage. Similiar with CoP.
But wait, you're saying that Mistrust triggers even if spell isn't finished?

Quote:
and I view mistrust as one of the strongest "nukes" a mesmer has.
That's true, but in practice Mistrust is less useful than it may seem, in general PvE. At least from what I remember when I was experimenting with it. It's even less useful if you're using heroes and henchmen.

Quote:
Useful, cry of pain is a nuke that needs a hex. Seems to me theres useful synergy there.
CoP is a valuable PvE skills, which costs valuable 10 energy, to do 50 AoE damage and prevent Panic from triggering?
A Psychic scythe ME/D mesmer will cause at least that much damage with autoattack, spammable.
Smite Hex is not a PvE skill, costs 5e, does 70-90 damage, removes hex / requires hex.

And guess how much energy you'll have after spamming Panic and CoP every 10sec. Try it.

Quote:
Illusion magic has some of the most powerful hexes in the game pve wise. like fragility, wandering eye (which in pve is used as a nuke, you dont care about the interupted attack skill) Frustration, which when cast on a mob that has panic on him in a ball of enemies, will cause him to drop instantly.
I didn't like Frustration. It's expensive single target hex, with conditional damage. And if you're using it with Panic you probably have 2 mesmers in the team
Wandering Eye is very good when part of Ineptitude build and somewhat less good in other builds because of lack of target focus (too lazy to go in details).

Quote:
You might feel casters dont do as well in pve, which is wierd since you play mesmer primary. I've played with your me/d build and I can tell you while its fun, its not the fastest killing build out there.
Definitely not, but what mesmer build is faster killing in general PvE? Did you use same heroes listed in the thread, customized scythe, and what area did you try it in? Really, if that Panic Mistrust combo works faster for you I'd be willing to try it out, just give me the build. Did you try using both builds with Essence / Red Rock Candy and try to compare? And what heroes do you use with Panic/Frustration?

Quote:
You play a support class, Change your build to add synergy to your team, you should be more concerned with mesmer teambuild.
There's actually more synergy in my Me/D team than mesmer caster team. Besides, I don't change my build to fit Vekk's or Olias's build. They change their builds to fit mine.

And I don't play support class, I play undermine class. I also play whatever builds I find best with that class (or those I find amusing). I don't play what's "proper" and "morally acceptable".
S
Still Number One
Wilds Pathfinder
• #92
The thing the OP has failed to explain is why Physical damage should not be stronger than caster damage. Guildwars isn't a tank and spank game where the melee is used for nothing but soaking up damage and casters are used to blow things up. The game is designed for warriors to be the main source of DPS for the team, and casters to excel in support, disruption, and movement control roles.

The game shouldn't change because someone wants a profession to be something it isn't. The mesmer is a master of disruption and e-denial. If you don't think those things are useful or you have no interest in doing them, then don't play the mesmer. Casters shouldn't do a warriors job equally to a warrior. They should be worse, and a warrior shouldn't do a casters job equally. Everyone has a specific role. Everyone has had that role for 5 years. Why the OP suddenly thinks these roles are unacceptable is beyond me, other then the fact that the OP is just complaining that their character can't do everything.
moriz
moriz
??ber t??k-n??sh'??n
• #93
Quote:
The best mesmer builds for general PvE, are in this order:

1. Psychic scythe Me/D
2. AP EVAS spammer
3. Ineptitude
i'd like to see video proof of this. download fraps and make us a video.
Del
Del
Desert Nomad
• #94
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
But they're not.

Why? Because theorycrafting doesn't vanquish areas, fighting vanquishes areas.



The best mesmer builds for general PvE, are in this order:

1. Psychic scythe Me/D
2. AP EVAS spammer
3. Ineptitude


When you say you consider those pvxwiki overpowered, it's in relation to what? They are inferior even to other mesmer builds, and even more to melee builds of others classes that we're talking about.



Vade retro me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
your scientific methods consist of making up bullshit,
Working so hard to prove this point.
Xiaquin
Xiaquin
Wilds Pathfinder
• #95
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
(Mesmers are more effective fighters than casters) Why? Because theorycrafting doesn't vanquish areas, fighting vanquishes areas.

Ooook, let's start over.

Where do you get off saying that a mesmer should be running damage-only? A primary mesmer playing with its own skill set is support. Period. It shuts down, disrupts and spreads hexes that pressure the enemy. It doesn't kill things, it makes it impossible for the things to do their job well. It is the last profession you take at face value if you want to steamroll. Before you go any further, please explain where you get the idea that this profession should also be spanking enemies like a Sin, on top of its versatile utility in a party.

As for eles? That's been a valid point for a while. They are a bit weak compared to the vast amount of armor-ignoring/penetrating damage out there.

Ritualists? Glaive and SoS.

Necros have a lot of utility as well, they are not primary damage-dealers without gimmicks like Discordway.

Monks are irrelevant to this discussion.

So, really, we're left with "eles need a buff/update". I think most would agree. Every other caster either has power or doesn't apply.
Cuilan
Cuilan
Forge Runner
• #96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaquin View Post
Necros have a lot of utility as well, they are not primary damage-dealers without gimmicks like Discordway.
I lol'ed.

Elementalists are fine if they change a couple skills.

I'm fine with mesmers as I can fit in any group except for some speed clears...finally.
S
Sirius Bsns
Banned
• #97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuilan View Post
I'm fine with mesmers as I can fit in any group except for some speed clears...finally.
Heroes and henchmen don't count as "groups"!
Lanier
Lanier
Desert Nomad
• #98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still Number One View Post
The thing the OP has failed to explain is why Physical damage should not be stronger than caster damage. Guildwars isn't a tank and spank game where the melee is used for nothing but soaking up damage and casters are used to blow things up. The game is designed for warriors to be the main source of DPS for the team, and casters to excel in support, disruption, and movement control roles.

The game shouldn't change because someone wants a profession to be something it isn't. The mesmer is a master of disruption and e-denial. If you don't think those things are useful or you have no interest in doing them, then don't play the mesmer. Casters shouldn't do a warriors job equally to a warrior. They should be worse, and a warrior shouldn't do a casters job equally. Everyone has a specific role. Everyone has had that role for 5 years. Why the OP suddenly thinks these roles are unacceptable is beyond me, other then the fact that the OP is just complaining that their character can't do everything.
Quoted for the truth
Xiaquin
Xiaquin
Wilds Pathfinder
• #99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuilan View Post
I lol'ed.
Did you have a point to make somewhere?
Grape Bird
Grape Bird
Academy Page
• #100
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip View Post
Because I am tired and think what on earth am I doing here.
Because I feel like I'm surrounded by screaming monkeys in a forest, and since I don't want to get banned or insult people, I decided to be quiet and not read the thread.


I am no longer interested in dialogue. As for my monologue, this is how I see this thread:


Me: Pyhsicals do tons more damage
X: Physicals can't do so much damage, just look at all blind and blablabla. I have theorycrafted it perfectly, look at my paper.
Me: Blind in PvE?
X: I saw it on wiki, there are skills that inflict blind, ffs 1121212121!!!! so many, also weakness also hexes! you be wrong lad! Theorycrafting ftw!
Me: No, there's some blindness in Oola's lab and those Nightfall plants, that's about it.
X: Noob! You can't win blind! And Faintheartedness! Therycrafting forever!
Me: With condition removal that your team has, and even without it, melee will do so much more damage anyway. Despite the lack of ideal conditions. Not all conditions are equal for casters as well (ether seals, roaring ethers, various interrupts, vow of silence dervishes..). After vanquishing all 3 campaigns, it is obvious that on average melee does much more damage. Net damage.
X: But there's blind! And all other stuff! Waaaaah!"1212121!!!!#"%$%! How can you not get it? You can't do any damage if there's blind! So casters and melee are balanced in this way.
Me: I agree. Blinded melee does 10% damage which is in total equal to caster who does 100% damage.


Me: Physicals do tons more damage.
Y: And where's proof of that?
Me: *rolleyes* (how about play the game?)


Z: Mesmers are overpowered now
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: I heard someone did SC of Frostmaw!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: Roaring Ether clearly shows mesmers are overpowered!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: Ever seen a gimmick speedclear of area x?
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
Z: It's really good in PvP!
Me: 8 skills please for general PvE
(and this goes on and on forever, it's like talking to a wall)

G: Behold! The iMesmer! OQZDAZkCT0AkAyATP2gIgpiIDA
Me #1: *deep sigh*
Me #2: (when I'm in the mood) So this is overpowered mesmer build? There are mesmer builds that are stronger than that but never mind let's see how it fares vs... say D/W. DW provides 82% permanent with SY damage reduction to other team members, as long as they are in earshot. Mistrust and CoP both antisynergize with Panic, WW depends on luck and that enemy lives 3 seconds (which is an eternity considering how fast DW is killing). In practice WW will not trigger most of the time. Arcane Conundrum is a joke, it's a theorycraft skill which, like WW, shows how slow casters really kill (yes I did actually try this skill and it's bad in general PvE for many reasons). Wandering Eye in itself is a great skill, if it wasn't for overpowered melee whose autoattack does more damage than this skill, and the fact that you're preventing a hit on your team that might be blocked anyway in one way or another which further decreases the value. Second thing is that biting casters a bit and biting melee a bit means that everyone dies bit by bit which is less effective than killing one foe (or group) first and then second afterwards. Known as target focus. So overall we have here a build that offers less protection than D/W, and far less damage, and this is overpowered mesmer build that makes the world tremble? Geez please don't roll D/W you might suffer a heart attack.


Me: Physicals do tons more damage.
T: Suck it up, you should be weak and what I play should be overpowered. It is the order of things.
Me: Whatever.


C: I'm Sceptic. I don't believe you, and your scientific methods are flawed, your data is incomplete, and you should dance around me for ages trying to convince me into something. I will not provide any better alternatives myself. I am Sceptic.
Me: Main characteristic of a sceptic is inability to understand.


S: Melee are overpowered only because of casters.
Me: And why are casters not overpowered because of melee? Ha? It's a team game. A team is likely to consist of casters and melee. If such team composition ends up in melee being overpowered, that's imbalance. It can be intended by design, but it's still overpowered.
S: Blabla. So you see, physicals alone can't do much.
Me: It's a team game. Stop theorycrafting for one second and go play the game. You'll notice around 7 other people/henchmen/heroes with you.


B: QQ more! Play something else! Who cares! Looooozer! $%$%"#! blurp
Me: *beasts*


K: I am not skilled in this game, but I am entitled to opinion. Blablablabla..
Me: Please, just refrain from comments. I don't care about your human rights.




I find your lack of faith disturbing.


OMG JOSIP! Your arrogant and pretentious tone must mean that you're right!11!!!!11!! Now, everyone will pay attention to you and listen to your argument, instead of nerdraging!!!!

Also, WTB High-End Manlyway SC 1,000,000,000e!!!!!!
Things tend to go up in price when they don't exist anymore.