Battle at Lion's Arch, WTH

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by harpharp View Post
...shakes head

WOW is not a game where u can solo most of the time. To enjoy the game content, at level 80, which is the max level, you have to group to do ANY level 80 dungeons and level 80 raids and u have to group for pvp.


In gw, you can enjoy the endgame content with heros and henchies. That is a big difference.
Everything up to lvl 80 in WoW can be soloed though.

In GW there is some endgame content that you cant do (yet) entirely with H/H, such as deep + urgoz, DOA, UW + FoW.

Anyway, just because you have to group up for some content of other MMO's, why exactly does GW have to be the same as them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos View Post

Apparently you haven't played many MMOs. In WoW, grouping is incredibly frustrating, can take hours to manage, and then your group can fail in <10 minutes and have everyone leave. The difference is, in GW you can roll through most content with 1-2 other players and heroes. In WoW, you need to find 24 other players. Same thing applies with most other MMOs.
And how do you go from 'You havnt played many MMOs' to just 'WoW'?

No, I havnt played WoW for any longer than a few weeks. I have however played DDO, Lotro and Maple Story for a long time, and in the only one of those three where grouping is required most of the time (DDO), the grouping system is pretty much perfect. You simply click on the social panel and you see every group on the server currently looking for players, and you can put up your own LFM as well. I wouldsuppose that this is the single reason why DDO is the only MMO that I have played where I've actually enjoyed playing with other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos View Post
If you pick up an online multiplayer game expecting to play the whole thing solo, then you're a fool. The bottom line is, you're eventually going to have to, unless you're skilled enough to do it by yourself with AI.
I bought GW as my first multiplayer game actually, and ended up playing through the vast majority of the content entirely solo. If solo play wasnt a possibility for most of the game, e.g. if there werent any henchmen or heroes in the game, then I wouldnt have played it for anymore than a few months at the most.

Everything in GW is soloable up to the end content, thats pretty much the same as in most other games. However, in GW the end game content is completely optional, a tiny portion of the whole game, and not required for anything.

lemming

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv View Post
In GW there is some endgame content that you cant do (yet) entirely with H/H, such as deep + urgoz.
And you can't solo raids, which is the closest comparable content in WoW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv View Post
Anyway, just because you have to group up for some content of other MMO's, why exactly does GW have to be the same as them?
What's wrong with having difficult content?

Anduin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ice Dragon Berserker Lodge

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv View Post
Everything up to lvl 80 in WoW can be soloed though.

In GW there is some endgame content that you cant do (yet) entirely with H/H, such as deep + urgoz, DOA, UW + FoW.

Anyway, just because you have to group up for some content of other MMO's, why exactly does GW have to be the same as them?



And how do you go from 'You havnt played many MMOs' to just 'WoW'?

No, I havnt played WoW for any longer than a few weeks. I have however played DDO, Lotro and Maple Story for a long time, and in the only one of those three where grouping is required most of the time (DDO), the grouping system is pretty much perfect. You simply click on the social panel and you see every group on the server currently looking for players, and you can put up your own LFM as well. I wouldsuppose that this is the single reason why DDO is the only MMO that I have played where I've actually enjoyed playing with other people.



I bought GW as my first multiplayer game actually, and ended up playing through the vast majority of the content entirely solo. If solo play wasnt a possibility for most of the game, e.g. if there werent any henchmen or heroes in the game, then I wouldnt have played it for anymore than a few months at the most.

Everything in GW is soloable up to the end content, thats pretty much the same as in most other games. However, in GW the end game content is completely optional, a tiny portion of the whole game, and not required for anything.
True to a point. Unfortunately, Slaver's boarders closer to being required (as it is required to fill out the book), which I was not happy about.

Xenomortis

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anduin View Post
True to a point. Unfortunately, Slaver's boarders closer to being required (as it is required to fill out the book), which I was not happy about.
Required to fill out an optional book? So what?
The other elite areas are required to gain the statues in the Hall of Monuments.

harpharp

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv View Post
Everything up to lvl 80 in WoW can be soloed though.

In GW there is some endgame content that you cant do (yet) entirely with H/H, such as deep + urgoz, DOA, UW + FoW.

Anyway, just because you have to group up for some content of other MMO's, why exactly does GW have to be the same as them?
.....wow srsly

the keyword here i am putting out is content. You dont have to do urgoz/fow/uw to finish factions. The real game in wow starts at 80, and anything in 80 requires a group. Calling it "solo" just because u can solo anything up to 80 is just wrong. The leveling process in a game shld never even be considered a real part of the game in the first place. Shiro is the main antagonist of factions, so is abaddon, and u can kill them with heroes and henchies.
Urgoz/deep/uw/fow was never part of the games storyline.


u can still solo uw/fow/urgoz and some of doa. Foundry might be a bit harder tho. Deep *might* be impossible due to mechanics tho i cant confirm this. Just hire someone with heros other then urs and u shld be all set.

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by harpharp View Post

u can still solo uw/fow/urgoz and some of doas
I said you cant do them entirely, and that is true. I dont think you can make it to the end chest with just 3 heroes, and you cant use hench there.

Quote:

You dont have to do urgoz/fow/uw to finish factions.
Thats exactly what I said, however you do now have to do them if you want to fill your HoM for GW2. I dont know if you've tried getting into an underworld, deep, or urgoz full clear group over the last few weeks. I have and it is complete hell.

Quote:
The real game in wow starts at 80, and anything in 80 requires a group. Calling it "solo" just because u can solo anything up to 80 is just wrong.
And that would be another reason, as well as the fees, for why I enjoy playing GW, and I couldnt enjoy WoW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
What's wrong with having difficult content?
Nothing, I like difficult content.

But difficult =/= group only content. Video games can still be difficult and challenging when playing them on your own, most of them actually are. Also in most games, difficulty tends to equal how many enemies are in a mob, and how much of a number they reduce from your red bar. It might make it more difficult, but I dont really get what is so challenging about this mechanic, or why it is such a big deal to always have ever increasing power creep in the majority of RPGs just because the developers cant come up ideas other than red bar going up and down.

And getting back on topic, that is exactly what WiK is. A massive extra power creep in GW. Theres nothing really challenging about it, just loads more enemies than you've ever seen before in the game. The only reason to do it is for the oppressor weapon you can get afterwards to add to your HoM.

IMO, and such game like GW where they have implemented something like the HoM, it should be entirely possible to fill it out and accomplish everything for it by playing on your own.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos View Post
You don't have to all the time, but seeing as it is an online multiplayer game, you're eventually going to have to.
I don't believe that, game design should not be based on only ONE particular definition, it should depend on giving customers what they want. Since most customers voted to have 7 heroes, it is pretty clear what we want.

Quote:
If you pick up an online multiplayer game expecting to play the whole thing solo, then you're a fool. The bottom line is, you're eventually going to have to, unless you're skilled enough to do it by yourself with AI.
If I paid for an online multiplayer game expecting to play it exactly the way YOU want it, instead of what I want it, then I am a bigger fool.

I have been skilled enough to do 99% of the game myself. As for the other 1%, I hero up with a friend.

Quote:
Also, my post what more directed at him saying GW2 is slowly disappointing him due to the fact that h/h is gone, forgot to add that in the quote. I do understand why you want to play GW1 alone, but again, you can't expect to do everything by yourself in an online multiplayer game.
I expect ANet to make the majority of their customers happy rather than the vocal minority. Otherwise, GW2 wouldn't even stand a chance before it launches.

Shadow Dragon

Shadow Dragon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

Harrismith, South Africa

[SAGA]

W/Mo

having reached this quest yesterday i can say the difficulty is refreshing!

i see plenty of folks asking to do this in HM aswell... but i think they're insane...

Zebideedee

Zebideedee

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

55?? 57' 0" N / 3?? 12' 0" W

N/Me

Doing it in HM, the point please, what is it?

Iuris

Iuris

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Crazy ducks from the Forest

W/

Quote:
Doing it in HM, the point please, what is it?
Possibly to have lvl 20 henchmen with improved skillbars?

Problem with low level henches is:
-lower health due to lower level
-lower armor ratings
-worse builds

Because of that, they can get killed very easily, and overly occupy the healers and ressers. To some, HMing then becomes easier than NMing it.

Of course, this argument can't really apply if you see someone LFG WiK finale HM...

lemming

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv View Post
Nothing, I like difficult content.
I don't see an actual argument against having group content, other than "I don't like it."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv View Post
IMO, and such game like GW where they have implemented something like the HoM, it should be entirely possible to fill it out and accomplish everything for it by playing on your own.
Why is that? If there exists difficult content, why should it not be recognized to some degree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
I don't believe that, game design should not be based on only ONE particular definition, it should depend on giving customers what they want. Since most customers voted to have 7 heroes, it is pretty clear what we want.

I expect ANet to make the majority of their customers happy rather than the vocal minority. Otherwise, GW2 wouldn't even stand a chance before it launches.
lol

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
I don't see an actual argument against having group content, other than "I don't like it."
Then maybe you should read a bit better. The argument I used was how difficult it is finding a group for UW / Deep and Urgoz. I absolutely love playing with other people in DDO. In GW playing with others is far less desirable, and any content that forces people to group with others in this game sees a vast amount of rank or skill discrimination that I have not seen in any other MMO (I dont play WoW though, so no need to compare to that game, though im sure thats the only game people will compare my statements to, and claim that I dont many MMOs just because I dont play one).

Also, when I take a team of 6 heroes into UW, I dont need to wait for any of them going AFK like a lot of players usually do, and also I dont need to spend several hours in one go doing all of UW, I ca pay for about an hour, go for a break, and come back and carry on from where I left off without disrupting anyone elses gameplay. Having content which lasts several hours long that also requires groups to play is an incredibly lame idea that needs to be done away with in video games.

Quote:
Why is that? If there exists difficult content, why should it not be recognized to some degree?
As I already said, difficult content does not equal group content. Just because you can play something on your own doesnt mean that it is any more easier or difficult than paying it with others. Neither does the amount of time that something takes relate to difficulty in any way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
lol
Whats so funny about it? The vast majority of people who play GW only do because they can play the content with H/H. If they would enjoy playing with 7 heroes, what is wrong with allowing it? Games are meant to fun and enjoyable. If heroes and henchmen were entirely removed from GW, probably rear enough to, if not more than around 75% of the games player base would quit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harpharp View Post
Shiro is the main antagonist of factions, so is abaddon, and u can kill them with heroes and henchies.
And what exactly is wrong with this?

harpharp

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv View Post

And what exactly is wrong with this?

you obviously didnt really get my statements. I clearly highlighted this as a reference to further slam home the point that WoW, is definitely not a solo game. I have people in forums constantly saying WoW is a solo game and i only can shake my head when some people are spreading falsehoods they dont even know. And when i am talking abt heros, i meant inviting a person to your group with their heros to join your heros, and do uw/doa and the person can leave.......

Anyway i am not against people h/h their stuff. I am all for it. The only reason i reply to your post is because u were saying WoW is a solo game, which is definitely not. And while this is a bit off topic, yes i have cleared all of doa, beaten mallyx, and have done urgoz and deep uw/fow. Except for the urgoz run which i bought, i pug all the rest successfully. uw was done with uwsc. Fow was done the typical hero/player style with a perma sin tanking, took 4 hrs tho :/ and mallyx was done with heroway where i found a couple wanting to run this on this forum and invited them to finish doa. Deep was done with complete pug, 2 leavers. no heroes whatsoever.

Virus Alert

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2010

ULGG

Mo/

I did it with PUGs on the second try. u mad?

ruk1a

ruk1a

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

UR MOM LOL

ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill Halendt View Post
frustrating type of challenge that ANet seems to love
so i'm not the only one that thinks this

just to clear things up, i play WoW as well ... and you can't do even ONE dungeon in WoW without a group, unless you are way higher than you should be which makes running that dungeon completely useless as the gear you get from it will be useless. the comparison can be made i guess if you took a lvl 20 all runed/insignia'd out with 3 hero's w/ badass builds and went to minister cho's estate normal mode. that's like taking a lvl 80 and running dead mines in WoW. the only solo part is the leveling up to 80. which a lot of quests (that can be skipped) require help from other players.
WoW. WoW. why does every forum have WoW in it. WoW. WoW. WoW!?!?!

keli

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Budapest

E/

frustrating = hard? omg, guys why do you want everything to be as easy as pre-searing?
which can be done with 1player and heroes+hench = not hard

Verene

Verene

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2009

[SOTA]

D/

There's a difference between difficult and frustrating.

Difficulty can be created by having 1) powerful enemies, or 2) large groups of somewhat weaker enemies. Unfortunately, Anet likes to go the route of "large groups of strong enemies", and WiK kinda went overboard with that considering that most of the time you're in a party of 6, instead of a full party of 8, and if you don't have other people to play with, you're also using level 10-12 henchmen.

Not to mention that there's really no reason why Peacekeepers, who are really nothing more than petty thugs and criminals hired by the Mantle, should be as powerful as they are. The Mantle themselves and the Mursaat/Jade - okay, that's fine. But Peacekeepers...not so much.

BFLA would have worked better, I think, if the initial waves were large but a lower level, with the enemies gradually getting stronger (with a few bosses and smaller strong mobs mixed in). It would not only work better in a "argh this is making me want to kill my computer" way, but would also make more sense in that of course the Mantle would throw their low level cannon fodder at you first, the stronger ones only coming out to fight when it's clear that doing that won't work.

lemming

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv View Post
Whats so funny about it?
Always doing what the majority suggests is a terrible way to run a company.

Syruis

Syruis

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2010

TWK

R/

....hiya...

Thanks to this thread, I was finally able to paste together H/H to beat this damned battle. Oh yeah, fun and very frustrating. Although, I did use a conset and just about every other consumable I had on me when things got looking like a party wipe. But it is done finally.

There was some good info here. Thanks!



Just did it again with a friend. Way easier. Never got pushed back from first stairs. Just added another monk and a barrage ranger to the mix. Was enjoyable and not all that hard...compared to H/H.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
Always doing what the majority suggests is a terrible way to run a company.
I disagree. Customer feedback is very important and is frequently used to influence product design decisions where I work.

In any case, someone suggesting something that goes against most customer's feedback better have solid reasons why he/she is doing so. Even senior VPs get blamed for product failures, if they choose to go against clear customer's needs in the first place.

If a senior VP still fails while following data and market research, then he is probably unlucky, he covered his own ass. However, if he fails because he chose to go against data and research, then he is an idiot and doesn't deserve the responsibility.

Lloyd6770

Lloyd6770

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

One

W/

I just completed this with 3x 100B Warriors (2 were Splinter/100B), a Splinter Barrage ranger, a UA Monk, and a SS Necro. Had 1 party wipe, but it was fun.

Anduin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ice Dragon Berserker Lodge

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenomortis View Post
Required to fill out an optional book? So what?
The other elite areas are required to gain the statues in the Hall of Monuments.
Depends on your point of view.

Techinically, everything in the game is "optional" if you go that route.

FoW, UW, Urgoz, Deep and Domain of Anguish I consider completely optional. Slaver's, however, I do not for the aformentioned book reason. Do you need to complete Domain of Anguish for the Nightfall books? FoW/UW for the Tyrian? Deep/Urgoz for Factions?

It should be a truely "optional" area, with no ties to anything that requires it to be beaten for completion. In that sense, it isn't optional if you want to beat EOTN, it's necessary. No elite area should be.

Sytherek

Sytherek

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2008

Florida, USA

R/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anduin View Post
FoW, UW, Urgoz, Deep and Domain of Anguish I consider completely optional. Slaver's, however, I do not for the aformentioned book reason. Do you need to complete Domain of Anguish for the Nightfall books? FoW/UW for the Tyrian? Deep/Urgoz for Factions?

It should be a truely "optional" area, with no ties to anything that requires it to be beaten for completion. In that sense, it isn't optional if you want to beat EOTN, it's necessary. No elite area should be.
Salver's is optional -- you can get rep without the books. I have a couple rank 10s, and none of them had full hard mode books, and most just did the campaign in normal/hard.

I've never considered Slaver's to be an elite area. It doesn't compare in difficulty or accessibility to UW/FoW/DoT/Urgoz/The Deep. Slaver's is the only "elite" area I clear on a regular basis, with a normal group, usually just my daughter, me, and our heroes. It can be taken in small chunks, isn't *that* difficult, can be run anytime (no favor/scroll/12-man worries)... compare this to the other elite areas, and I just don't see how it compares.

Duncan *can* be a pain in the ass, though there are ways to take him down.

We don't run gimmicky builds,either. I ran my usual (to the horror of many) Gwen/Jora/Hayda build with my ranger... it was challenging but not annoyingly difficult.

The other elite areas have annoying entry restrictions, or silliness like Urgoz/The Deep where we need a third person due to group size. Domain of Torment is just annoying, and not much fun, in my opinion. I don't play with other humans because I'm tired of being interrogated like I'm trying to get a job with CIA.

So, for me, Slaver's isn't really "elite", because I don't have to play with know-it-alls and I can do it whenever I want.

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
Always doing what the majority suggests is a terrible way to run a company.
No not really. Listening to what customers want and providing them with what makes them happy with your product or service is the best way to run a company.

lemming

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
I disagree. Customer feedback is very important and is frequently used to influence product design decisions where I work.

In any case, someone suggesting something that goes against most customer's feedback better have solid reasons why he/she is doing so. Even senior VPs get blamed for product failures, if they choose to go against clear customer's needs in the first place.

If a senior VP still fails while following data and market research, then he is probably unlucky, he covered his own ass. However, if he fails because he chose to go against data and research, then he is an idiot and doesn't deserve the responsibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv View Post
No not really. Listening to what customers want and providing them with what makes them happy with your product or service is the best way to run a company.
I'm not suggesting that you don't take into account customer feedback, just that you don't implement moronic suggestions just because the majority wants them.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
I'm not suggesting that you don't take into account customer feedback, just that you don't implement moronic suggestions just because the majority wants them.
Doubting the Wisdom of the Crowds, Sir Francis Galton?

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
I'm not suggesting that you don't take into account customer feedback, just that you don't implement moronic suggestions just because the majority wants them.
7 heroes isnt a moronic suggestion.

I've completed WiK 3 times now on my elly, mes, and rit, and all I can say is that I would have much preferred to have been able to use 6 heroes instead because of how rubbish the skillbars and team setups were on my second two attempts, making the quest far more difficult than it should actually be.

Difficulty in GW = Having to play with rubbish players. Why should I, or anyone else that wants to complete WiK be dragged down by players who cant even be bothered to make a better skillbar than what my heroes can manage? Thats the only moronic thing about this game, that too many of the players tend to be rubbish and incapable of playing well.

Onyx Blindbow

Onyx Blindbow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Here & There

Blades of Burning Shadows - GoDT

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv View Post
7 heroes isnt a moronic suggestion.

I've completed WiK 3 times now on my elly, mes, and rit, and all I can say is that I would have much preferred to have been able to use 6 heroes instead because of how rubbish the skillbars and team setups were on my second two attempts, making the quest far more difficult than it should actually be.

Difficulty in GW = Having to play with rubbish players. Why should I, or anyone else that wants to complete WiK be dragged down by players who cant even be bothered to make a better skillbar than what my heroes can manage? Thats the only moronic thing about this game, that too many of the players tend to be rubbish and incapable of playing well.
LOL love forum heroes like this

Even after all these years the I AM PR0 & everyone else is a scrub mentality still exists in GW

Rather than increasing to 7 heroes I wish A-net got rid of all heroes and actually turned this into an MMO rather than a single player game where you may occasionally actually group with someone.

I am really hoping that GW2 is an MMO and that there are no heroes, will be funny to see these "Pr0's" in a group situation then raging on about their supposed eliteness lol

wilebill

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

OP, is all your armor infused?

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

Oh, yeah. I had to kick quite some people in several occasions for not being infused and not having access to the mines yet. I wish there was an NPC in the Keep infusing your characters in exchange for 5 Mursaat tokens or something.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx Blindbow View Post
Rather than increasing to 7 heroes I wish A-net got rid of all heroes and actually turned this into an MMO rather than a single player game where you may occasionally actually group with someone.

I am really hoping that GW2 is an MMO and that there are no heroes, will be funny to see these "Pr0's" in a group situation then raging on about their supposed eliteness lol
Now that's a moronic suggestion.

Everyone must be forced to party up with me! Boo hoo hoo, nobody wants to play with me, I am so pathetic!

Heroes give players an option of whether to party up with other humans or go solo and play with their heroes. More options are good because it caters to different playstyle and personalities.

Ghull Ka

Ghull Ka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Seattle, WA

Grenths Helpdesk

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilebill View Post
OP, is all your armor infused?

For all the characters that me or my friends have run through the WiK with... 100% of them folded like a cheap suit the first time they saw a Jade or a Mursaat. Lonnng before the Battle for LA. Like, quest #1.

"Oops, time for an infusion run".

Sytherek

Sytherek

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2008

Florida, USA

R/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghull Ka View Post
For all the characters that me or my friends have run through the WiK with... 100% of them folded like a cheap suit the first time they saw a Jade or a Mursaat. Lonnng before the Battle for LA. Like, quest #1.

"Oops, time for an infusion run".
Poor communication by ANet... I've had people trying to do WiK who don't even know what "infusion" is. It's an obscure game mechanic from one of four campaigns, and many people miss or forget it.

There should either be a simple infusion quest in LA, or an NPC from which it can be purchased after you've completed any one campaign.

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx Blindbow View Post
Even after all these years the I AM PR0 & everyone else is a scrub mentality still exists in GW
Did you think this would change? It's always been and always will be this way. Everyone thinks they are pro and the people around them are the reasons for failure. That's why pugs suck. Every individual thinks they are pro and when shit hits the fan the blame goes to someone other then themselves. Get used it.

Btw I'm pro and you all suck.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

I got rolled hardcore with my earthshaker warrior when I tried it...had shitty healer hero but I also wasn't stopping enough damage with my hit in armor. Went to a defy pain/whirlwind/cyclone Axe/EBSOH build and walked through it. Also had a human monk so that helped quite a bit.

Rolled it again on my Panic mesmer with guildies and a pretty crappy pug tank who was dead half the time along with my minion bomber rit. I'm still considering Panic to be the saving grace of that fight.

It's all about the team synergy.

Skyy High

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anduin View Post
Depends on your point of view.

Techinically, everything in the game is "optional" if you go that route.

FoW, UW, Urgoz, Deep and Domain of Anguish I consider completely optional. Slaver's, however, I do not for the aformentioned book reason. Do you need to complete Domain of Anguish for the Nightfall books? FoW/UW for the Tyrian? Deep/Urgoz for Factions?

It should be a truely "optional" area, with no ties to anything that requires it to be beaten for completion. In that sense, it isn't optional if you want to beat EOTN, it's necessary. No elite area should be.
H'what? GW:EN has a storyline comparable to the one required to fill the Proph/Factions/NF books, and it has a separate book for those missions. Just because there is a book for it does not mean dungeons are the same as the main storyline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
Rather than increasing to 7 heroes I wish A-net got rid of all heroes and actually turned this into an MMO rather than a single player game where you may occasionally actually group with someone.
I wonder if you know just how wrong you are.

Go to Bloodstone Fen, right now, and try to get a PUG. Without henchies, you'll be lucky if you find even half of a group, at any hour. Without heroes, you'll say "screw this" and fill your party with henchies within five minutes. Heroes didn't create the solo mentality, they simply allow players to play the content that they want, when they want, using the builds they want. Without them, we'd just have henchies...but people would still choose henchies over waiting for an hour for a PUG for a single mission.

mage767

mage767

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

LOVE

Me/E

Yo, I have done BLA like over 20 times now, mostly doing H/H for friends or pugs, the latter for lots of ca$h.

If you need some AOE fire-power, feel free to contact me IGN: Mhenlo is my son

I really like BLA mission, I think it's fun. However, I will not bring my heroes if I respond to your request. You must lead a pug team with 1-2 heroes max.

SebaZ

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ancient Phoenix

Mo/

Is anyone really having problems with this mission? Get a spirit spammer build (works with every class), get 3 MM heroes, get a healer and something else. Easy win.

Iuris

Iuris

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Crazy ducks from the Forest

W/

Three MMs? Really? But the last third of the mission is almost exclusively jades that leave no corpses... I know, I did it just a few days ago.

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

Three MMs?
That's a bit...

One Lich MM is enough against the humans.

I've seen that the most effective things in this battle are this:
- Panic mesmer, with signet of weariness, mistrusts, and, if possible the Faction and Sunsopeer PvE skills.
- One Lich MM, so you can still have at least one minion when the Jade Armors come and the only corpses around are those from killed allies.
- One word of healing/protection hybrid monk.
- One Splinter Weapon barrage ranger with a few interrupts.
And any two other things you may like.
With that, the battle is a breeze.