Nature Rituals and Trapping - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Quaker

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Aug 2005

Canada

Brothers Disgruntled

24 Jul 2010 at 15:14 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

Why do Nature Rituals take so long to put down? What was the original purpose of them taking so long and what would be the best way to handle them now?

My guess would be that traps were intended to be laid before a battle and have enemies lured into them. The long-ish cast time plus the "easily interrupted" keeps them from being used effectively during a battle.
The best way to handle them now would be the same as handling them before.

Quote:

Ritualist Spirits, while they serve a different purpose also outshine Nature Rituals because the way they function only serves the team controlling them. Nature Rituals affect both teams for better or worse. Do these factors make Nature Rituals obsolete?

No.

Quote:

Ask yourself a question. If you are in a pug and someone pings a few Nature Rituals and/or Traps; does he get a spot on your team? On my team? No. Even if he/she has 1 trap or 1 Nature Ritual, others on my team are going to raise objections. And they would have a valid point.

PUG-Nazis must die!
If your PUG is so bad that bringing one trap or NR will cause a problem, you need to try a different game.

Quote:

Trapping(Specifically talking about trapping for a team, NOT a gimmick). I think Trapping sounds great when you are talking about what a Ranger can do, but when you play one? Not so much. Especially now with PvE only skills such as YMLaD, FH!, Tryptophan Sig that can cause some of the same effects you would want out of a trap, but in a Shout and even an unremovable Signet form.

Trapping, as a tactic, has always been too slow for my liking, but it does work and some people like to play the game, and trap, just for fun. Remember "fun"? It used to be part of the "meta-game".

Quote:

Why have traps stayed the same?

Why not?

Quote:

Would a 1 second cast Nature Ritual or Trap be over-powered? Or would a 1 second cast Nature Ritual/Trap be more in line with today's meta-game?

Why are you always in such a hurry?

Notorious Bob

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2009

Gwen's underwear drawer

The Curry Kings

R/

24 Jul 2010 at 17:55 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Why does everyone want a Disarm Trap skill? I don't see the appeal.

Because being able to detect & disarm PvE Enemy or Opposing Team traps rather than taking a whole heap of damage in the face would make for some interesting dynamics - rather than... "oh yeah, I'm a Ranger but I haven't got a hope in hell of finding a trap... poof! Oh yeah, there's one!"

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

24 Jul 2010 at 19:37 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Trapping, as a tactic, has always been too slow for my liking, but it does work and some people like to play the game, and trap, just for fun. Remember "fun"? It used to be part of the "meta-game".

if spending all your time laying down traps that take a few seconds each is fun then I stand corrected. Just trying to expedite the process Sonny Jim.

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

24 Jul 2010 at 20:33 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

if spending all your time laying down traps that take a few seconds each is fun then I stand corrected. Just trying to expedite the process Sonny Jim.

Not everyone equates speed with fun.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

24 Jul 2010 at 21:00 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Not everyone equates speed with fun.

I'd guess more people equate speed to fun than people who equate slow paced sub-parness to fun.

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

24 Jul 2010 at 21:37 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

I'd guess more people equate speed to fun than people who equate slow paced sub-parness to fun.

You missed my point. I said not everyone equates speed to fun. I didnt say "not everyone equates going fast to fun". What I meant is that to many people, myself included, the speed, whether it be slow or fast, has no effect on fun.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

24 Jul 2010 at 21:47 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

You missed my point.

Because you didn't have one. You tried to be witty, but the entire argument failed.

Reducing casting time isn't and never was meant to just make skills more fun to use.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

24 Jul 2010 at 21:48 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

Because you didn't have one. You tried to be witty, but the entire argument failed.

Reducing casting time isn't and never was meant to just make skills more fun to use.

Hint: It's to make them less terrible.

Do I necessarily agree that shorter cast time are going to make any of them mainstream PvE builds? No, of course not, but that's besides the point.

Meridon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2008

Funny Business Inc [FBI]

24 Jul 2010 at 22:17 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

If your PUG is so bad that bringing one trap or NR will cause a problem, you need to try a different game.

Yeah, because when a party full of bonder monks and eles, and hexing necro's and mesmers, for some mysterious reason, don't wholeheartedly agree on the concept of your Nature's Renewal affecting all of them, it's obviously their fault for sucking so much, right?

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

24 Jul 2010 at 23:06 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

Yeah, because when a party full of bonder monks and eles, and hexing necro's and mesmers, for some mysterious reason, don't wholeheartedly agree on the concept of your Nature's Renewal affecting all of them, it's obviously their fault for sucking so much, right?

Pretty much yeah

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

24 Jul 2010 at 23:19 - 51

Some NR are very effective in specific area's, some may find use in teams build around them, and some would hamper the player's team more then the mobs the're trying to fight. Very few are safe to bring -or even benificial- in any team/PuG.

Charlotte the Harlot

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Bay Area

none

R/

25 Jul 2010 at 00:46 - 52

Reducing cast time on nature rituals would go a long way. Favorable winds could be useful in both pve and pvp if it werent a 5 sec cast. Even something like muddy terrain is decently useful in some pvp but the cast time makes it too clumsy to use.

Traps should have lowered casting cost, 25e dust trap is ridiculous. Skills like trappers speed are helpful but don't really fit on a bar, helping condense the bar more by giving it 33% movement speed as well would make it of potential use. Spike and flame trap should also do more damage.

Removing the easily interruptable part would make them significantly stronger but could be bad for pvp potentially. A detect/disarm feature would never used. I mostly think traps need some number tweaking I would never expect or want them to be at the front of any metagame, but they should be usable.

To keep traps/spirits ranger only they could cast 2% faster for each point in expertise. It would make both skill types much more useful with out having to balance each one.

Mustache Mayhem

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

BEN

R/N

25 Jul 2010 at 00:59 - 53

I agree reducing time on the nature rituals.. cause if your doing winnow/fav winds that's 10 seconds right there- unless your 12+ in both it doesn't really last long enough imo

I was messing around with that on my necro doing winnow/fav winds and ootv.. see how much it would stack with splinter/mop on the heros for bla

it worked pretty well, could last through the first perfected jade group.. that's when I noticed the cast time really

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

25 Jul 2010 at 01:20 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

Hint: It's to make them less terrible.

Do I necessarily agree that shorter cast time are going to make any of them mainstream PvE builds? No, of course not, but that's besides the point.

It worked for the ritualist spirits, and now they dominate PvE. I can't normally bring Favorable Winds when it puts me down for 5 seconds and I have to wait a minute to use it again.

Edit: Realized you were discussing traps, but, it's the same problem. Seems everyone is in a rush with PvE, and the ranger is too slow with its utilities.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

25 Jul 2010 at 01:51 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

It worked for the ritualist spirits, and now they dominate PvE. I can't normally bring Favorable Winds when it puts me down for 5 seconds and I have to wait a minute to use it again.

Edit: Realized you were discussing traps, but, it's the same problem. Seems everyone is in a rush with PvE, and the ranger is too slow with its utilities.

You were not wrong. My topic here includes Nature Rituals. I just think that if we could put them down faster in PvE they would see more use in regular team build play. No one brings them into regular team play with the exception of a few things. With the advent of PvE only skills that do what a lot of traps were meant to do but in the form of a shout or signet, it makes using traps pointless.

I don't understand why people are against making them faster to use. It's a head scratcher to me. There is no good reason why a Nature Ritual should take 3-5 seconds to lay down when Rits have had all their Ritual casting times reduced and see widespread use. Rits are also not so overpowered that I feel the need to invite one or bring mine every time I do something. Why should Ranger spirits not see the same thing happen for them?

What I am saying is this: It won't break the game. It will just expedite the game play, and people will have more options when playing their rangers in PvE.

Carinae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Inside

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

25 Jul 2010 at 01:53 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

And rangers do need a buff (though realistically, they probably won't ever get one). In fact, they need a buff more than any other PvE profession. The only things they're optimal in are useless in PvE....

Rangers have spike builds (that's it), which have significantly less synergy with party buffs and have significantly lower dps than melees unless you're in an area with shittons of snares and really spread-out mobs. Anyone who thinks rangers don't need a buff either doesn't play ranger or gets carried by their heroes and just thinks they're doing something effective.

I've been saying this for over a year. QFT.

Shriketalon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

25 Jul 2010 at 02:46 - 57

I think the synergy comment is spot on.

The main problem with the Ranger is that they don't play well with others, nor do their skills combine together. Beast Mastery doesn't have any connection to Marksmanship, trapping requires 100% of your bar be devoted to its use and doesn't play well with anything else, and nature spirits don't offer incentive to build a strategy around them, more frequently gumming up the works than increasing capabilities and brewing up combinations.

Making the Ranger better will require making it a better contribution to the team, and offering more reward for using skills in conjunction with one another.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

25 Jul 2010 at 05:51 - 58

One thing I haven't seen brought up yet, but I rarely see people using this skill is triple shot. If your faction rank is even halfway decent, its a very potent skill if you buff it right.

Notorious Bob

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2009

Gwen's underwear drawer

The Curry Kings

R/

25 Jul 2010 at 07:14 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

The main problem with the Ranger is that they don't play well with others, nor do their skills combine together. Beast Mastery doesn't have any connection to Marksmanship, trapping requires 100% of your bar be devoted to its use and doesn't play well with anything else, and nature spirits don't offer incentive to build a strategy around them, more frequently gumming up the works than increasing capabilities and brewing up combinations.

Actually the Ranger class/sub-classes follow the generic RPG model probably better than any other GW class with the 3 skill lines defining the Archer, Trapper and Beast Master sub-classes. Some would argue that this kind of "specialisation" is what an RPG is all about.

If you choose to play a Ranger, then PLAY a Ranger. If the most effective Ranger build is 7 Rt skills and EVAS then there's something really wrong with the profession/skill balancing.

Rangers DO play well with others, how many BLA PuGs are more than happy for a splinter/barrage R/Rt to come along?

The issue with rituals & traps has always really been that they can be used for solo farming and were targetted for nerfs. However, the Dev Team supports other solo builds and that grates. Every time the Rangers community has found any innovative way to farm, the nerf bat has been swung hard and heavy

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

25 Jul 2010 at 09:53 - 60

Honestly people, the pace of the game being too fast is what the problem is, not Rangers being too slow.

Ugh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

R/

25 Jul 2010 at 13:21 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

One thing I haven't seen brought up yet, but I rarely see people using this skill is triple shot. If your faction rank is even halfway decent, its a very potent skill if you buff it right.

Triple Shot limits your PvE skill options and can only be used a few times per mob, so people tend to avoid it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Honestly people, the pace of the game being too fast is what the problem is, not Rangers being too slow.

This is true.

However, slowing the pace of the game would require quite a few nerfs. The problems with this are the complexity (I guess?), the scale, and the fact that Anet would be taking peoples' toys away. As shown by their decision to not kill SF, Anet doesn't want to scare away their playerbase by fixing the game; people are stupid and some of them would go "omgwtfbbqnerfIquit" or "anetsuximnotbuyingGW2" instead of thinking or playing the new meta. The complexity might not be a problem, but if they nerf some of the most effective things, they'd have to make sure something of almost equal effectiveness doesn't pop up in its place a day later. The scale just means that the nerfs would span across more attributes, skills, and professions, which would make it harder to balance and would probably take longer.

Buffing traps/rituals wouldn't solve the larger issues of the game, but it would act as an equalizer as well as being easier and safer.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

25 Jul 2010 at 18:29 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

One thing I haven't seen brought up yet, but I rarely see people using this skill is triple shot. If your faction rank is even halfway decent, its a very potent skill if you buff it right.

Well, that's the problem, not everyone has Allegiance at a decent rank, that takes a lot of time. Myself, my rank is maybe 5, and it's still not worth taking. It's 10 second downtime is also a bother. When I spike I prefer to just use Asuran Scan and IAS, then Needling to put the target down. I'll let my PvE skills buff me or work utility.

As for the pace of the game, I agree. The ranger is really like a time capsule. So many professions have risen up and evolved, but it's a relic. There's no chance of a dozen nerfs to bring everything down to the ranger, the ranger needs to be brought up to speed.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

25 Jul 2010 at 19:43 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Honestly people, the pace of the game being too fast is what the problem is, not Rangers being too slow.

But if the designers have made it that way then that isn't what the problem is. If the designers didn't intend for the game to be as fast as it is now then I see what you are saying. You can do 1 of 2 things: Bring the rangers up to the speed of the current game or slow everyone else down to Ranger level as it pertains to traps and nature rituals.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

25 Jul 2010 at 19:58 - 64

Triple Shot at rank 5 would be 3 * 66 = 198% while at rank 10 it's 216% - At rank 6 I thought it was usefull, but that was rather arbitrarily, it passed the 200% border. Buffed properly it can take 40% health from a target, even at rank 5/6

I'd like a buff to Nature Rituals, shorter cast shouldn't imbalance anything and - more importantly - a shorter recharge would make it more attractive for today's faster pace.
Having their effect on friend and foe is part of the deal, I think.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

25 Jul 2010 at 21:14 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

It worked for the ritualist spirits, and now they dominate PvE. I can't normally bring Favorable Winds when it puts me down for 5 seconds and I have to wait a minute to use it again.

Edit: Realized you were discussing traps, but, it's the same problem. Seems everyone is in a rush with PvE, and the ranger is too slow with its utilities.

If you think the only difference between Nature Rituals and Rit Spirits is cast time, then we probably don't need to have this conversation.

The main difference is, Rit Spirits are only beneficial. Even if Nature Rituals casted instantly with zero energy cost and recharge...75% of the time the spirit is still hurting your team more than it is the enemy.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

25 Jul 2010 at 21:17 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Honestly people, the pace of the game being too fast is what the problem is, not Rangers being too slow.

This is pretty much true.

Most enemy groups in the game have next to no defense, and have no monks, and if they do, they usually have 1 healing spell, 2 smiting spells, and a maintainable enchantment that they spend all of their energy recasting.

PvE is not tactical. I'm not sure if ANet planned it to be that way or not, but dems da breaks

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

25 Jul 2010 at 23:00 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Honestly people, the pace of the game being too fast is what the problem is, not Rangers being too slow.

This is oh so true. What needs to happen is for the other non-derv, para, and ranger (and maybe ele) professions to be nerfed so that conditions and traps can be useful. Then, monks or restorits need to be added to mobs without them, and those with monks and resto rits need a skillbar overhaul. Then, Anet can focus on how to bring spirits up to the level of the other stuff rangers can do.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

25 Jul 2010 at 23:06 - 68

Nerfing other professions (unless in mass and are extreme) or buffing traps won't make them liked by more players for general play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

That's the problem though. They aren't bad for GIMMICK builds. I want them to see use for actual balanced team builds.

Wtf, okay. Then don't use them.

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

25 Jul 2010 at 23:10 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Nerfing other professions (unless in mass and are extreme) or changing traps won't make them liked by more players for general play.

Actually, i am suggesting mass nerfs to pretty much all of the offensive PvE skills and many of the commonly used offensive skills (SoS, discord, MoP, Barbs, Splinter, Death Blossom, etc.). However, im not trying to necessarily make them more liked in general play. I'm saying its better to bring professions down the level of the weaker ones than bringing the weaker ones up to the level of the stronger ones. There are some support and defensive skills that i think need buffs but in general, offense needs a massive tone-down in PvE.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

25 Jul 2010 at 23:12 - 70

Okay, that's your stance. Doesn't mean it'll ever happen and it for sure won't help with game balance, as it would be far too large for testing.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

26 Jul 2010 at 01:07 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

If you think the only difference between Nature Rituals and Rit Spirits is cast time

I don't. It doesn't change the fact that speed buffing ritualist spirits was the reason they became explosively popular. What would people be doing today if it was back to 3-5 second cast times and 45-60 second cool downs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

The main difference is, Rit Spirits are only beneficial. Even if Nature Rituals casted instantly with zero energy cost and recharge...75% of the time the spirit is still hurting your team more than it is the enemy.

Trust me, I realize this, but before we even get into functionality, the mechanic has got to be streamlined or it's just not going to be very popular (including with me). I've fallen steps behind in parties just adding preparations because people can't wait to aggro the next group. Necromancers and ritualists are starting aggro, I don't even get up to pull before we are mobbed, the pace is ridiculous.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

26 Jul 2010 at 06:53 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Trust me, I realize this, but before we even get into functionality, the mechanic has got to be streamlined or it's just not going to be very popular (including with me). I've fallen steps behind in parties just adding preparations because people can't wait to aggro the next group. Necromancers and ritualists are starting aggro, I don't even get up to pull before we are mobbed, the pace is ridiculous.

You said...

"It worked for the ritualist spirits"

In response to me saying basically

"It won't make them viable for mainstream PvE"

Try to keep up here. Reducing the cast time on spells with no benefit will not make them viable. Just like how reducing the old Holy Wrath's casting time would have achieved nothing regards normal play, because it was terrible aside from gimmicks (pure signet mes and 600/smite)

Redvex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

R/

26 Jul 2010 at 07:31 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Triple Shot at rank 5 would be 3 * 66 = 198% while at rank 10 it's 216% - At rank 6 I thought it was usefull, but that was rather arbitrarily, it passed the 200% border. Buffed properly it can take 40% health from a target, even at rank 5/6

I'd like a buff to Nature Rituals, shorter cast shouldn't imbalance anything and - more importantly - a shorter recharge would make it more attractive for today's faster pace.
Having their effect on friend and foe is part of the deal, I think.

For the 2nd part i agree.
For the first part there 2 thing that you would consider:
1) Long recharge time
2) It's pve skill: means that you cannot bring asuran scan i'm thw strongest and ebsoh for buff dps.

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

26 Jul 2010 at 11:03 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

But if the designers have made it that way then that isn't what the problem is. If the designers didn't intend for the game to be as fast as it is now then I see what you are saying. You can do 1 of 2 things: Bring the rangers up to the speed of the current game or slow everyone else down to Ranger level as it pertains to traps and nature rituals.

The second is old fashioned power creep and the reason we're in this situation now.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Jul 2010 at 11:54 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redvex

For the first part there 2 thing that you would consider:
1) Long recharge time
2) It's pve skill: means that you cannot bring asuran scan i'm thw strongest and ebsoh for buff dps.

its more spikish than dps, asuran scan + buh, pick a prep and a weap spell, follow it with dual or forked

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

26 Jul 2010 at 15:57 - 76

Quote:

The issue with traps is that they are balanced around the possibility of many of them being stacked on top of each other, so now you have to stack many of them on top of each other for them to be effective.

This is huge (and a big part of why they're changing trap mechanics in GW2, I'd imagine). Traps would need to be severely limited if they were to ever get buffed into usefulness in general PvE, and I don't see that happening. It's still a funny mechanic to run on occasion.

Spirits have long casting times because they originally were global effects that could only be dispelled with a useless mesmer signet (with a 90 second recharge...). The effects are very powerful, much more potent individually than ritualists' spirits. Of course, in PvE, where you're constantly moving from one mob to another, trying to form your build around a slow casting, slow recharging, easily killed spirit is asking for trouble, and most of the time the effects have such a small impact on the mobs (anything related to energy, for instance) that it's just not worth bringing.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

26 Jul 2010 at 17:20 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

The second is old fashioned power creep and the reason we're in this situation now.

Truth. Problem is that there's so much in the game, it can't (won't) be undone, as much as I'd like to see it happen. I'll count myself lucky to get a ranger buff before GW2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

Try to keep up here. Reducing the cast time on spells with no benefit will not make them viable. Just like how reducing the old Holy Wrath's casting time would have achieved nothing regards normal play, because it was terrible aside from gimmicks (pure signet mes and 600/smite)

Apples and oranges. You are comparing a maintained enchantment with a two second cast time to a fixed spirit, 3-5 second cast times and 4-600% higher cool downs. "Benefit" is relative to the party you build.

Oh, and the whole talking down to someone? Yeah, I'd stop that.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

26 Jul 2010 at 19:05 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

The second is old fashioned power creep and the reason we're in this situation now.

and that isnt going to change, so at least make the nature rituals and traps viable to use on teams. it's counter-intuitive to say that because something is OP and we all know that isn't going to change, to say, "Don't buff anything else to make it OP as well". We all know they aren't going to debuff any PvE only skills at this point and that is really what traps are at odds with. Skills like FH! and YMLaD work like traps were intended to work, and no one has to have the patience to run traps anymore. I agree with you that the game is too fast for my liking, but obviously ANET is moving the game toward a greater pace, so we can either fight it and hate the game and not play it. Or we can change our playstyles to play how they have the game set up now.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

26 Jul 2010 at 21:13 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Apples and oranges. You are comparing a maintained enchantment with a two second cast time to a fixed spirit, 3-5 second cast times and 4-600% higher cool downs. "Benefit" is relative to the party you build.

Oh, and the whole talking down to someone? Yeah, I'd stop that.

It's like I'm talking to one of my kids here.

You say maintained enchants are apples to oranges, but comparing ritualist spirits to nature rituals is not?

You haven't been playing the game long have you, if you really think the only real strength difference between nature rituals and ritualist spirits is their cast time.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

26 Jul 2010 at 21:36 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

You say maintained enchants are apples to oranges, but comparing ritualist spirits to nature rituals is not?

For some reason, you brought up spells, that's a different type of skill and as such, is oranges to the apples being discussed. It's not a difficult concept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

You haven't been playing the game long have you, if you really think the only real strength difference between nature rituals and ritualist spirits is their cast time.

Strength wasn't even brought up. I don't know what you are reading, but it sure isn't this thread.