Nature Rituals and Trapping

Triple Shot limits your PvE skill options and can only be used a few times per mob, so people tend to avoid it.

This is true.

However, slowing the pace of the game would require quite a few nerfs. The problems with this are the complexity (I guess?), the scale, and the fact that Anet would be taking peoples' toys away. As shown by their decision to not kill SF, Anet doesn't want to scare away their playerbase by fixing the game; people are stupid and some of them would go "omgwtfbbqnerfIquit" or "anetsuximnotbuyingGW2" instead of thinking or playing the new meta. The complexity might not be a problem, but if they nerf some of the most effective things, they'd have to make sure something of almost equal effectiveness doesn't pop up in its place a day later. The scale just means that the nerfs would span across more attributes, skills, and professions, which would make it harder to balance and would probably take longer.

Buffing traps/rituals wouldn't solve the larger issues of the game, but it would act as an equalizer as well as being easier and safer.

Well, that's the problem, not everyone has Allegiance at a decent rank, that takes a lot of time. Myself, my rank is maybe 5, and it's still not worth taking. It's 10 second downtime is also a bother. When I spike I prefer to just use Asuran Scan and IAS, then Needling to put the target down. I'll let my PvE skills buff me or work utility.

As for the pace of the game, I agree. The ranger is really like a time capsule. So many professions have risen up and evolved, but it's a relic. There's no chance of a dozen nerfs to bring everything down to the ranger, the ranger needs to be brought up to speed.

But if the designers have made it that way then that isn't what the problem is. If the designers didn't intend for the game to be as fast as it is now then I see what you are saying. You can do 1 of 2 things: Bring the rangers up to the speed of the current game or slow everyone else down to Ranger level as it pertains to traps and nature rituals.

Triple Shot at rank 5 would be 3 * 66 = 198% while at rank 10 it's 216% - At rank 6 I thought it was usefull, but that was rather arbitrarily, it passed the 200% border. Buffed properly it can take 40% health from a target, even at rank 5/6

I'd like a buff to Nature Rituals, shorter cast shouldn't imbalance anything and - more importantly - a shorter recharge would make it more attractive for today's faster pace.
Having their effect on friend and foe is part of the deal, I think.

If you think the only difference between Nature Rituals and Rit Spirits is cast time, then we probably don't need to have this conversation.

The main difference is, Rit Spirits are only beneficial. Even if Nature Rituals casted instantly with zero energy cost and recharge...75% of the time the spirit is still hurting your team more than it is the enemy.

This is pretty much true.

Most enemy groups in the game have next to no defense, and have no monks, and if they do, they usually have 1 healing spell, 2 smiting spells, and a maintainable enchantment that they spend all of their energy recasting.

PvE is not tactical. I'm not sure if ANet planned it to be that way or not, but dems da breaks

This is oh so true. What needs to happen is for the other non-derv, para, and ranger (and maybe ele) professions to be nerfed so that conditions and traps can be useful. Then, monks or restorits need to be added to mobs without them, and those with monks and resto rits need a skillbar overhaul. Then, Anet can focus on how to bring spirits up to the level of the other stuff rangers can do.

Nerfing other professions (unless in mass and are extreme) or buffing traps won't make them liked by more players for general play.
Wtf, okay. Then don't use them.

Actually, i am suggesting mass nerfs to pretty much all of the offensive PvE skills and many of the commonly used offensive skills (SoS, discord, MoP, Barbs, Splinter, Death Blossom, etc.). However, im not trying to necessarily make them more liked in general play. I'm saying its better to bring professions down the level of the weaker ones than bringing the weaker ones up to the level of the stronger ones. There are some support and defensive skills that i think need buffs but in general, offense needs a massive tone-down in PvE.

Okay, that's your stance. Doesn't mean it'll ever happen and it for sure won't help with game balance, as it would be far too large for testing.

I don't. It doesn't change the fact that speed buffing ritualist spirits was the reason they became explosively popular. What would people be doing today if it was back to 3-5 second cast times and 45-60 second cool downs?

Trust me, I realize this, but before we even get into functionality, the mechanic has got to be streamlined or it's just not going to be very popular (including with me). I've fallen steps behind in parties just adding preparations because people can't wait to aggro the next group. Necromancers and ritualists are starting aggro, I don't even get up to pull before we are mobbed, the pace is ridiculous.

You said...

"It worked for the ritualist spirits"

In response to me saying basically

"It won't make them viable for mainstream PvE"

Try to keep up here. Reducing the cast time on spells with no benefit will not make them viable. Just like how reducing the old Holy Wrath's casting time would have achieved nothing regards normal play, because it was terrible aside from gimmicks (pure signet mes and 600/smite)

For the 2nd part i agree.
For the first part there 2 thing that you would consider:
1) Long recharge time
2) It's pve skill: means that you cannot bring asuran scan i'm thw strongest and ebsoh for buff dps.

The second is old fashioned power creep and the reason we're in this situation now.

its more spikish than dps, asuran scan + buh, pick a prep and a weap spell, follow it with dual or forked

This is huge (and a big part of why they're changing trap mechanics in GW2, I'd imagine). Traps would need to be severely limited if they were to ever get buffed into usefulness in general PvE, and I don't see that happening. It's still a funny mechanic to run on occasion.

Spirits have long casting times because they originally were global effects that could only be dispelled with a useless mesmer signet (with a 90 second recharge...). The effects are very powerful, much more potent individually than ritualists' spirits. Of course, in PvE, where you're constantly moving from one mob to another, trying to form your build around a slow casting, slow recharging, easily killed spirit is asking for trouble, and most of the time the effects have such a small impact on the mobs (anything related to energy, for instance) that it's just not worth bringing.

Truth. Problem is that there's so much in the game, it can't (won't) be undone, as much as I'd like to see it happen. I'll count myself lucky to get a ranger buff before GW2.

Apples and oranges. You are comparing a maintained enchantment with a two second cast time to a fixed spirit, 3-5 second cast times and 4-600% higher cool downs. "Benefit" is relative to the party you build.

Oh, and the whole talking down to someone? Yeah, I'd stop that.

and that isnt going to change, so at least make the nature rituals and traps viable to use on teams. it's counter-intuitive to say that because something is OP and we all know that isn't going to change, to say, "Don't buff anything else to make it OP as well". We all know they aren't going to debuff any PvE only skills at this point and that is really what traps are at odds with. Skills like FH! and YMLaD work like traps were intended to work, and no one has to have the patience to run traps anymore. I agree with you that the game is too fast for my liking, but obviously ANET is moving the game toward a greater pace, so we can either fight it and hate the game and not play it. Or we can change our playstyles to play how they have the game set up now.

It's like I'm talking to one of my kids here.

You say maintained enchants are apples to oranges, but comparing ritualist spirits to nature rituals is not?

You haven't been playing the game long have you, if you really think the only real strength difference between nature rituals and ritualist spirits is their cast time.

For some reason, you brought up spells, that's a different type of skill and as such, is oranges to the apples being discussed. It's not a difficult concept.

Strength wasn't even brought up. I don't know what you are reading, but it sure isn't this thread.