Nature Rituals and Trapping - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

26 Jul 2010 at 22:09 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Strength wasn't even brought up. I don't know what you are reading, but it sure isn't this thread.

Oh, sorry, I thought you said reducing nature rituals cast time would make them viable.

Oh that's right, you did.

I can understand not keeping up with what I'm saying, but come on, at least try to keep up with what you are saying.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

26 Jul 2010 at 23:45 - 82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

/snip

Practicability and power are the same thing now? You keep changing your words. We're done here, moving on.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

27 Jul 2010 at 01:34 - 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Practicability and power are the same thing now? You keep changing your words. We're done here, moving on.

Yes, yes they are.

Even though you have yet to mention "practical". I said "reducing the cast time won't make them viable for the majority of PvE".

You responded with "It worked for ritualists"

This just shows a blatant disconnect with the game. Nature Rituals aren't impractical because of their cast time, they are impracticable because 9 times out of 10, they are more detrimental to your team than they are the enemy, and when they aren't detrimental, they are a wash with no benefit.

And to finish off the response, yes, if a skill is weak as hell, it is impractical to bring on a limited skill bar, DUCY?

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

27 Jul 2010 at 15:23 - 84

Just fyi, it's perfectly possible to build your team around a NR. Nature's Renewal, for example, doesn't affect Weapon Spells. Abuse it.

To Chicken To Die

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Mo/

28 Jul 2010 at 07:41 - 85

Nature rituals is just a non completed concept for changing the enviorment and basicly the battle grounds. It would be fun if the spirits would become natrual making them unkillable (offourse with ballanced changes on durations and recharge).

Traps are what they are traps. Attacks you don't see or notice untill your on it. Traps are already powerfull enough to kill others

Apok

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2010

28 Jul 2010 at 08:05 - 86

I'd like to point out that, even if Nature Rituals are buffed via casttime and recharge, people will still only use EoE.

You see, Ritualist spirits had the benefit of only affecting either the opponents or the allies. Nature Rituals, on the other hand, require a whole gimmick be made just to be effective.

Wanna use NR? Well, bring Tranq too because you sure as hell are not bringing enchantments and they might.

Wanna run Favorable Winds? You better have a bunch of bows out and ready to fire.

Muddy Terrain? No speed buffs!

Quicksand? Signets, or a bunch of e-management.

Primal Echoes? Why bring signets at all?

QZ? Only if you have ER Prots, EP healers, or Necro/Rits.

(Greater) Conflagaration? Either bring fire shields or run Mantra of Flame.

Is this a bad thing? Hell no! If anything, it is the perfect example of zone-preperation. Watch PvP and you will see teams using these tactics based on what meta they have to counter, and the spirits they use haven't been changed for years. (well, you used to, and then NF came....)

Also, why buff traps? Even if they were instant cast, no one would run up to a mob and put them down; they'd either get killed or just end up doing less damage than a DwG rit. Traps are fine: little tactical wtf moments for the team.

Scary

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Uhmmmm??

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

N/

28 Jul 2010 at 08:55 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

I'd like to point out that, even if Nature Rituals are buffed via casttime and recharge, people will still only use EoE.
.

Well, I use a lot more Spirits than only EoE. I love to make ranger based hero teams.
And I will be most likely not the only one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

You see, Ritualist spirits had the benefit of only affecting either the opponents or the allies. Nature Rituals, on the other hand, require a whole gimmick be made just to be effective.
.

True.
The only buff the spirits would need.(pve that is) is that they give the
advantage to the using team. They might change the duration or either
the recharge time of it.
But that would give the spirits a total new life if they did this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Wanna use NR? Well, bring Tranq too because you sure as hell are not bringing enchantments and they might.

Wanna run Favorable Winds? You better have a bunch of bows out and ready to fire.

Muddy Terrain? No speed buffs!

Quicksand? Signets, or a bunch of e-management.

Primal Echoes? Why bring signets at all?

QZ? Only if you have ER Prots, EP healers, or Necro/Rits.

(Greater) Conflagaration? Either bring fire shields or run Mantra of Flame.

Is this a bad thing? Hell no! If anything, it is the perfect example of zone-preperation. Watch PvP and you will see teams using these tactics based on what meta they have to counter, and the spirits they use haven't been changed for years. (well, you used to, and then NF came....)

.

That is what makes a game challenging. Take account of the oponents skills
and team builds. It's way to easy at this moment in PvE.
........They should buff the droprate to when they gonna change this

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Also, why buff traps? Even if they were instant cast, no one would run up to a mob and put them down; they'd either get killed or just end up doing less damage than a DwG rit. Traps are fine: little tactical wtf moments for the team.

Same as spirits.. I use them rather often. Not for offensieve purposes.
But more for defence and spreading conditions.

So, all to the end..
It's just how A player wants to play his game..

I , would like to see some changes to spirits and traps in PvE so they give
ones more a opportunity to make other team builds.
Could use 1 or 2 hero's more in the team dough

oops brought that up again

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

28 Jul 2010 at 16:59 - 88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

I'd like to point out that, even if Nature Rituals are buffed via casttime and recharge, people will still only use EoE.

You see, Ritualist spirits had the benefit of only affecting either the opponents or the allies. Nature Rituals, on the other hand, require a whole gimmick be made just to be effective.

Strategy != Gimmick. NR, for example, can work by utilizing weapon spells and direct healing for a back line. Mesmers have plenty of non-hex skills. Necros can run MM or support without a problem. None of those are gimmicks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Wanna run Favorable Winds? You better have a bunch of bows out and ready to fire.

<---Ranger. I'll take my FW, thank you, because I don't want to be locked into a recurve bow or use up my prep on RtW. As long as you are smart about using it, your benefit is greater than an enemy's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Also, why buff traps? Even if they were instant cast, no one would run up to a mob and put them down; they'd either get killed or just end up doing less damage than a DwG rit.

Traps are not meant to be front-line usage. The point of a trap is catch aggro. What with PvE being run at 200mph by SoS, super-buffed physicals and SY! spammers, there's no practical use for them because parties are bulldozers. A long time ago people had ideas to pull enemies into traps. You get laughed at, today. If they were a lot faster (PvE-only, of course) I think it could change some minds. Balance would still be a key issue, since I believe they were/are exploited for trapping all of the UW. Perhaps a page out of GW2, by limiting one of each trap type active at a time.

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

28 Jul 2010 at 21:22 - 89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Strategy != Gimmick. NR, for example, can work by utilizing weapon spells and direct healing for a back line. Mesmers have plenty of non-hex skills. Necros can run MM or support without a problem. None of those are gimmicks.

Bro, if anything is a gimmick, this is. A gimmick is a loophole in a game that allows inferior players to beat superior players. Nature's Renewal and running Weapon Spells to work around the downside will give N/Rts an edge over a regular Monk without requiring any skill to do so. That's as obvious a gimmick as it gets.

Please note,as balance isn't important one bit in PvE (despite what people may claim around here, they're deluded fools) this only applies to PvP.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

28 Jul 2010 at 23:04 - 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

if anything is a gimmick, this is.

Changing tactics is not a gimmick. You have many types of skills, use them. Strategies don't apply to general use. You can't run NR or any spirit to give you unstoppable power, but each spirit can give your party an advantage if you seize it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

A gimmick is a loophole in a game that allows inferior players to beat superior players. Nature's Renewal and running Weapon Spells to work around the downside will give N/Rts an edge over a regular Monk without requiring any skill to do so.

A loophole implies you are going around the rules. What rules? You have interrupts, you have ways to kill a spirit. PvE gets along fine when enemies use them, PvPers have no excuses here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Please note,as balance isn't important one bit in PvE (despite what people may claim around here, they're deluded fools) this only applies to PvP.

Well we're going to have a problem getting anywhere in discussion as long as you sweep PvE under the rug. Cooperative and competitive game play is equally important and both worlds have strong communities that deserve balance. I noted above that a speed buff to nature rituals be PvE-only. You're welcome to propose any PvP versions.

Shriketalon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

29 Jul 2010 at 00:44 - 91

The problem with the whole NR discussion is that the amount of work put into designing the team simply isn't worth the rewards.

You have to have the entire team disregarding enchantments or hexes, have to babysit the spirit to stay within its radius yet keep it out of combat (sixty second recharge means that if it fall, it's not coming back for a while), and in return.....hexes and enchantments take longer to cast.

Why bother?

If you are facing multiple hexers of the same type, they are going to be casting redundant spells, so you might as well just have great hex removal. If you are facing a few opponents with horrific spells of terrible magnitude, bring a shutdown mesmer to Migraine/Panic/Frustrate/Arcane Conundrum the hell out of 'em. If enchantments from, say, and enemy monk are a problem, that same mesmer can also shut him down as well.

Nature Spirits just lack punch. Instead of changing the map, they provide tiny little tweaks who's ability to interfere with enemy abilities is simply not worth the restraint they place upon allies. If they are going to be worthwhile, they need to be redesigned to be more synergistic with team abilities.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

29 Jul 2010 at 03:48 - 92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

The problem with the whole NR discussion is that the amount of work put into designing the team simply isn't worth the rewards.

You have to have the entire team disregarding enchantments or hexes, have to babysit the spirit to stay within its radius yet keep it out of combat (sixty second recharge means that if it fall, it's not coming back for a while), and in return.....hexes and enchantments take longer to cast.

Why bother?

If you are facing multiple hexers of the same type, they are going to be casting redundant spells, so you might as well just have great hex removal. If you are facing a few opponents with horrific spells of terrible magnitude, bring a shutdown mesmer to Migraine/Panic/Frustrate/Arcane Conundrum the hell out of 'em. If enchantments from, say, and enemy monk are a problem, that same mesmer can also shut him down as well.

Nature Spirits just lack punch. Instead of changing the map, they provide tiny little tweaks who's ability to interfere with enemy abilities is simply not worth the restraint they place upon allies. If they are going to be worthwhile, they need to be redesigned to be more synergistic with team abilities.

Well, that, and most people don't want to rework their build away from something they are comfortable with. I mean, changing weapons to take advantage of OoP is one thing...removing all hexes and enchantments is another. Yes, it can work, yes it can give a slight advantage, but as you said, that advantage is so slight that its laughable.

And to the guy saying it isn't gimmicky...it is about as gimmicky as it gets. The fact that the entire team is building around a skill isn't the only thing that makes it a gimmick, the consequences of the team not building around it is what makes it a gimmick.

Trapping is a gimmick not because trapping itself works, but because if the entire team isn't trapping, it is terrible. Just like how NR is a gimmick because if the team doesn't build around it, it hurts your team just as much if not more than the other team.

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

29 Jul 2010 at 05:28 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Changing tactics is not a gimmick. You have many types of skills, use them. Strategies don't apply to general use. You can't run NR or any spirit to give you unstoppable power, but each spirit can give your party an advantage if you seize it.

I don't know what you're trying to prove with this but until you disprove my arguments for it being a gimmick the useless fluff that you bring up here won't mean anything. As for strategies not applying to general use, Nature's Renewal actually does apply to general use (ie: the team build that uses it doesn't have hard counters) in HA so that would make it... Not a strategy?

Quote:

A loophole implies you are going around the rules. What rules? You have interrupts, you have ways to kill a spirit. PvE gets along fine when enemies use them, PvPers have no excuses here.

What rules? Why, what about the very fundaments of balance? I pretty much explained it in the sentence itself, it violates the very first rule of balance: the fact that inferior players should always be defeated by superior players.

The problem lies in the fact that you are always prepared for the Enchantment/Hex hostile environment and your opponent isn't. You can't just go in and kill a spirit like that as teams will always attempt to put it in a hard to reach place and even if you could, it would still require a lot of dedication just to make the battle equal. This is exactly the kind of thing gimmicks do.

Quote:

Well we're going to have a problem getting anywhere in discussion as long as you sweep PvE under the rug. Cooperative and competitive game play is equally important and both worlds have strong communities that deserve balance. I noted above that a speed buff to nature rituals be PvE-only. You're welcome to propose any PvP versions.

I just came here because you said Nature's Renewal isn't (part of) a gimmick, which is simply untrue. Balance doesn't make sense in PvE because balance applies to you and whoever you are fighting. Guess what? Players are always superior skill-wise to NPCs which would mean they'd win all the time. Does that sound like a reasonable or even fun scenario? If you would balance mobs out against players you would get stuff like Zaishen Challenge. I think we can all agree that part of the game isn't particularly challenging.

By the way, people will obviously not run NR if it had a lower cast time in PvE because the most powerful protection skills are generally Enchantments. As for the other rituals, I think QZ might have a chance.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

29 Jul 2010 at 08:31 - 94

I think you are making different arguments. Unless I'm wrong one of you is discussing pve, the other pvp. Those 2 things are not compatible, which is why they split pve and pvp skills.

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

29 Jul 2010 at 08:38 - 95

This is true, but he used the word "gimmick" and "Nature's Renewal is not a" in the same sentence which I needed to critisize.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

29 Jul 2010 at 16:25 - 96

Hey Morphy and Xiaquin: might want to read the first post again. This was ALWAYS only about PvE. It's also only about bringing Nature Rituals and Traps up to speed with the current speed of the game play. Take it to PM's if you want to argue.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

29 Jul 2010 at 17:58 - 97

I've been exclusively talking about PvE. PvP was injected into the thread (and quite offensively, I add).

The definition of "gimmick" argued is extremely vague and misappropriated, in my opinion. It was never worth discussing and I shouldn't have been baited into it. So, for the second time in the thread, moving on and not continuing a pointless argument.

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

30 Jul 2010 at 06:22 - 98

Not at all vague, I pretty much literally used the definition here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gimmick.

More on-topic: people would obviously start using Nature Rituals in PvE more with a low cast time.

Shriketalon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

30 Jul 2010 at 23:55 - 99

I guess the question I would pose to the community is thus: what should the Ranger's abilities be that they currently are not?

Should traps be changed to the GW2 model, single shot effects where you can only have one, thus making them more potent?

Should nature spirits be divided so that some only effect enemies, some only impact allies, and some change the world to do both?

What should be the overall goal of the lackluster Marksmanship line, and how should it relate to Beast Mastery?

Brewing something up, so I'll post it later, but I'd like to just brainstorm how people envision how the Ranger should function and what it currently cannot do properly.

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

31 Jul 2010 at 01:03 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

More on-topic: people would obviously start using Nature Rituals in PvE more with a low cast time.

Agreed...much like the decrease in rit's spirit casting. Also would be nice for traps and possibly reworking Trapper's Focus to increase traps damage verses the speed at which they r laid.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

31 Jul 2010 at 01:37 - 101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

I guess the question I would pose to the community is thus: what should the Ranger's abilities be that they currently are not?

(All suggestions are PvE-only)

Traps: Speed up, allow one of each trap type at a time.

NRs: Speed. After that, case-by-case basis.

General: Add damage to more skills (Poison Arrow, Incendiary Arrows) and reduce recharge on some attacks (Hunter's Shot, Melandru's Shot). Fix niche skills with little practical use (example: Body Shot works into a way to inflict cracked armor, instead of depend on it).

I would have to go through every skill, honestly, so this is just a starting point. Overall, I just want the ranger to be faster and do what it already does, just better in every way.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

31 Jul 2010 at 01:48 - 102

Considering how traps are returning to The Underworld, ranger spirits are the more likely thing to be changed. Even with short casting times, they aren't worth it. Not like anyone is going to set up spirits in the middle of a mob or fight. That's just be dumb.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

31 Jul 2010 at 15:58 - 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Considering how traps are returning to The Underworld, ranger spirits are the more likely thing to be changed. Even with short casting times, they aren't worth it. Not like anyone is going to set up spirits in the middle of a mob or fight. That's just be dumb.

That kind of thinking was how a ton of people felt with Rit Spirits and look what happened when their casting times got shortened. Shortening the casting times of those and Nature Rituals opens up some different builds for the Ranger in today's game. People would actually tailor more builds to suit NR and trapping style play for regular team builds. There would have to be some balancing after the decrease in casting time I am sure, but I for one would love to see a wider array of play style be available to my Ranger.

Darcy

Never Too Old

Join Date: Jul 2006

Rhode Island where there are no GW contests

Order of First

W/R

31 Jul 2010 at 19:41 - 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

Ah, you younguns don't remember the glory days?

Back when spirits used to effect the entire map and cause DP?

Back when a Winter ranger was needed in the Fire Isles?

I remember this. When my main warrior did the Fire Islands missions using Winter. Before you could get +10 armor vs fire on your shield, or have heroes along and there were no buffs to raise your intrinsic level. Ahh, the good old days of re-doing missions over and over until you got lucky enough to get it right.

But since then my warrior almost never uses /ranger for anything as the nature rituals have become fairly useless.

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

31 Jul 2010 at 19:51 - 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

That kind of thinking was how a ton of people felt with Rit Spirits and look what happened when their casting times got shortened. Shortening the casting times of those and Nature Rituals opens up some different builds for the Ranger in today's game. People would actually tailor more builds to suit NR and trapping style play for regular team builds. There would have to be some balancing after the decrease in casting time I am sure, but I for one would love to see a wider array of play style be available to my Ranger.

Yes but Rit spirits attack or do something useful , nature rituals dont.
Shortening casting times AND recharges would help to maybe carry 1-2 spirits max but mostly wont help.
They need to do something useful like for example "foes within range with a condition recieve +3....15 earth damage every time they are hit with elemental damage" , this spirit dies after 15 sec ( with 30 recharge or 25 ).
Not with that numbers but you know , USEFUL stuff , unlike stuff they have now.

For the traps part yes , non easy interruptable , wider AoE and make them non stackable in the same place for example while they are not active. That would make the ranger sort of a defensive+ofensive melee/ranged attacker.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

31 Jul 2010 at 20:04 - 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

Shortening the casting times of those and Nature Rituals opens up some different builds for the Ranger in today's game.

What builds are there could can't be done because of their casting time?

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

31 Jul 2010 at 21:25 - 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Yes but Rit spirits attack or do something useful , nature rituals dont.
Shortening casting times AND recharges would help to maybe carry 1-2 spirits max but mostly wont help.
They need to do something useful like for example "foes within range with a condition recieve +3....15 earth damage every time they are hit with elemental damage" , this spirit dies after 15 sec ( with 30 recharge or 25 ).
Not with that numbers but you know , USEFUL stuff , unlike stuff they have now.

For the traps part yes , non easy interruptable , wider AoE and make them non stackable in the same place for example while they are not active. That would make the ranger sort of a defensive+ofensive melee/ranged attacker.

they would still need their casting times reduced to see significant play even with the changes you are suggesting. I am suggesting cast reduction so that Rangers have more options as well as team options opening up for Rangers. I like your idea, but it is a moot point unless their cast times are reduced.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

31 Jul 2010 at 21:28 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

What builds are there could can't be done because of their casting time?

They don't see widespread use because of the cast times. I for one would make team builds around them if they didn't take so long to put down. Rit Spirits weren't bad before their casting times got reduced. Teams just didn't want to wait for them to get all of their spirits ready. The game for better or worse is a WAY faster pace now then it used to be. We can all say, "Roll us back to an earlier time, slow the game down etc..." but that isn't the direction the game is going in and the Ranger still hasn't caught up in the AREA of Spirits and Traps.

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/

31 Jul 2010 at 22:24 - 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Traps: Speed up, allow one of each trap type at a time.

I assume your intent here is to make traps totally and utterly useless in the game. If so, yup, that would do it.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

31 Jul 2010 at 22:46 - 110

Summon Traps... all your traps are summoned to your current location. Game. Set. Match.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

31 Jul 2010 at 22:51 - 111

Lol, that one could be fun.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

01 Aug 2010 at 00:17 - 112

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I assume your intent here is to make traps totally and utterly useless in the game.

They aren't really used now. Provide examples of how making them work faster, in accordance with the speed of today's PvE, would make it even more useless. If you're mad that it spoils UW trapping, nuts. Stacking traps shouldn't be the only usefulness, they should actually be practical for general use.

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/

01 Aug 2010 at 02:43 - 113

No, only allowing one trap of each type at a time would make them useless, traps do very little damage individually.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

01 Aug 2010 at 03:35 - 114

They're not meant to kill something, that's why they inflict lots of conditions. It's a wilderness trap, not a bomb (however the dwarf skill is). If all you want is damage, you wouldn't be using traps anyway, so they shouldn't concern you.

Nevertheless, I would not oppose a modest damage increase, it just didn't factor into the problems I saw with the skill type.

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

01 Aug 2010 at 04:00 - 115

Why not make them only useable once at a time and give them a damage increase? Idk how much that would really help, but traps should be useful for general use, not for farming. I almost think it might be better to give them OP (not too powerful but more powerful than many other stuff in the game) effects and then see how that would effect their usage in PvE. If people would then actually slow down to lay the traps and pull enemies into them (which i guess is what traps are supposed to be for...), then the effects could be nerfed until a happy medium is reached. Idk... just an idea.

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/

01 Aug 2010 at 13:00 - 116

Traps were always a slow and inefficient way to farm so there was never a problem with them killing things, plus there were few places suitable for traps, most of which had better farms with other professions. Trapping outside those few places required a degree of skill that made it not suitable for most (god forbid that anything in the game would allow you to profit from skill!).

Traps in PVE are currently dead and pointless, so if you want them back, lets make them better before we make them worse yes?

Like bows, pets and nature rituals, traps were another ranger style that was good in the days of prophesies but has become hopelessly bad in the current game because of power creep. So either unwind all the power creep (no, didn't think that would happen) or bring traps and nature rituals up to the current game power.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

01 Aug 2010 at 14:22 - 117

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

They don't see widespread use because of the cast times. I for one would make team builds around them if they didn't take so long to put down. Rit Spirits weren't bad before their casting times got reduced. Teams just didn't want to wait for them to get all of their spirits ready.

With reduced cast times, they won't be worth bringing anyway. It's not their casting time, it's how worthless they are. You talk about increased speed of the game, but then you want to make spirit and team spirit builds...

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

01 Aug 2010 at 17:32 - 118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

With reduced cast times, they won't be worth bringing anyway. It's not their casting time, it's how worthless they are.

"Worthless" and related words are subjective. Traps are designed to inflict lots of conditions in AoE and can allow you to start off a fight with an advantage. With a little strategy, such as Archer's Signet, they could be used to great effect if only they could be deployed fast and consistently.

I know the power creep has made the game into a big damage number contest, but that's not the point of traps, and it shouldn't be. I'd rather they stay dead than see that happen. IMO, damage should come from the bow, Wilderness Survival emphasizes utility.

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

01 Aug 2010 at 19:24 - 119

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

"Worthless" and related words are subjective. Traps are designed to inflict lots of conditions in AoE and can allow you to start off a fight with an advantage. With a little strategy, such as Archer's Signet, they could be used to great effect if only they could be deployed fast and consistently.

I know the power creep has made the game into a big damage number contest, but that's not the point of traps, and it shouldn't be. I'd rather they stay dead than see that happen. IMO, damage should come from the bow, Wilderness Survival emphasizes utility.

He was refering to spirits, not traps.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

01 Aug 2010 at 20:44 - 120

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

"Worthless" and related words are subjective. Traps are designed to inflict lots of conditions in AoE and can allow you to start off a fight with an advantage. With a little strategy, such as Archer's Signet, they could be used to great effect if only they could be deployed fast and consistently.

I know the power creep has made the game into a big damage number contest, but that's not the point of traps, and it shouldn't be. I'd rather they stay dead than see that happen. IMO, damage should come from the bow, Wilderness Survival emphasizes utility.

Besides the fact that the dude you are replying to was talking about spirits, I am talking about traps becoming relevant again in terms of ease of use and casting times that are in-line with today's game. I am not talking about using this stuff for gimmick trapper teams. I am talking about giving Rangers more options with their bars. IDK how many more times I have to say that. you seem to be having conversations with people that aren't here or not reading what people are actually talking about.