NEWS FLASH: ANET puts NAIL in PvP Coffin...

How do you plan on making them mingling? You should know well enough that recruitment is almost never done through titles - personal acquaintance and word of mouth are far more likely.
I hope you didn't just say that you think random teams should be part of the competitive format of choice.
The post that was being referred to when this line of discussion began is as follows:
Interpreting that as referring only to PvP titles is one way of looking at it, but I'm pretty sure you'd agree that "performance" really has nothing to do with them.

It's too late. GW1 isn't really bringing in new players, and the PVP community has dwindled to the point that it's non-sustainable now.

About the only thing they could do to bring life back into it would be to give away PvP-only versions of GW1 for free.

Its no question the success rate for a new player would go up if he had old players on his team but it would also mean the success rate would go down for the old player. So why would any old player want to be put in that situation?



It doesn't mean you're more competent but I would take 50/50 over a new player any day because I would know that any time spent on him wouldn't be wasted, 50/50 shows he has dedication and is less likely to quit for years.
I can't say how many times I ran people in my guild through the game only for them to quit the next day.


Performance has everything to do with pvp titles, you only get points for winning, so a title is record of wins. Granted it is biased because it doesn't show the loses.

PvP titles can be bought, and a mediocre player can get carried to a level above their play. Look at all the Bspikers with high champ titles. They aren't good. Their champ title doesn't indicate their skill. They won a lot of games, but they did it by abusing a broken skill-less build.

Titles really have nothing to do with performance. I have no hero title but I guarantee you when I still played I was better then most rank 6 players. I just didn't play HA because I found it to be a stupid boring arena. I'd rather GvG if I found 8 people to play with.

Top players don't look for titles when they recruit players. They look for people they know or people recommended by people they know.

Basically, PvP titles don't mean a thing. The only time people ever take them into consideration is when they are PuGing or because they are stupid. Yea the best players probably have a high title. But not all people with high titles are the best players.

One other thing: I'd like to point out how the biggest e-sport fanbase evar, that of Starcraft, has already largely migrated to SC2. There's no reason to think that GW1 PvP players will stick won't move on to GW2, unless the PvP is actually worse.

that's really cool of you
not trolling

also at above, sc2 is trying really hard to be sc1 with better graphics, gameplay is the same with minute changes to balance and controls.

More like one title can be bought, trying to buy HA title after r3 is incredibly slow, expensive and impractical. Part of pvp is always keeping up with the meta.

You get rewarded for performance by consecutive wins, that's where the majority of you're title points will come from.

Join a guild.

I guess that would apply if you're into monthly competitions but any team has the potential to make it to hall of heroes and you only need a ranked guild for gvg.

If they want to cheat themselves and get the titles through gimmicks, that's their decision. But I can promise if they didn't have the patience to get them legitimately, then they won't have the patience to keep playing.

Ruling out egregious exploitation, the correlation still isn't perfect because of the time factor. It's most apparent in a format like HA, where time is the primary factor in rank, but there are plenty of quality GvGers who are only champ 3-5 because they've only been playing successfully in the past couple of years, when the general decrease in activity has made champ points harder to get.

Either way you're saying inexperienced players slipped by and got into the higher pvp title ranks and are now avoiding discrimination but isn't the main discussion in this thread about how inexperienced players are left out?
Which is it, are they being left out, let in or just enough.

Inexperienced players with the right attitude and determination are not left out. Inexperienced players who come in with a "farming" mentality of wanting quick rewards for little effort like you can achieve in PvE are left out.

And by right attitude I don't mean the attitude every single person should have or they are a bad person. I mean the attitude you have to have to withstand all the hurdles that PvP throws at you because of the way it is designed. If you can't withstand those hurdles, then PvP isn't for you.

The people who come on the forums and complain are usually the people who come in without the attitude that GW1 PvP requires you to have. You need to have all those attribute Lemming listed earlier, or you won't be able to make it. That is the design flaw with GW1 PvP. It doesn't cater to everyone. It caters to a certain type of person.

Most players don't want to spend time getting their head beat in and learn to improve. In PvE, you do a farm run 2 or 3 times and you're pretty much good to go from there. In PvP you play two to three games and you are still inexperienced. For a lot of people, that is a deterrent. To those which that is a deterrent, they are left out. For those in which that isn't, they stand a chance to make it in PvP.

People don't realize pvp titles are not meant to be maxed.
You need to treat that r3 gladiator it takes for HoM the same you would vanquishing all of prophecies.

What do maxed PvP titles have to do with the discussion?

Don't you need to do a lot of PvP so that you can get titles?

What I was saying is I think the inactivity in pvp is because pve players are so used to maxing titles when they need to go for a title that only needs a rank 3 instead of maxing they expect to get it as fast as a rank 3 for a pve title which is not the case.

Isn't the thread about pvp inactivity because people see pve as an easier way to fill their HoM and why did you avoid my previous question?

That seems like an overgeneralization.
Kind of. The initial premise was that the HoM having more PvP objective to complete would help stimulate activity.

As for the latter point, Nel addressed it already. Performance over time results in titles, which says nothing for those who haven't been performing all that long.

It's not that players with the motivation and skills but without titles are being left out deliberately, it's that there's no good way of filtering them out from everyone else. This is why most people get into PvP through knowing people - it's random opportunities like those that allow players to show their stuff.

IMO. This is a PVE update for PVEers, i don't think any self respectable PvPers would cry foul since nothing rewarded on GW2 have any concern for PVPers at all. Besides, I feel that this title update is very well designed.
It allow both PVPers and PVEer to reach out to each other's title in one way or another.
HOM titles implementation are very thoughtful, maybe it is the player that should stop complaining about something as trivia as a title which the end reward is merely some weapons skin and some PVE title underneath a toon's name......

Both PVPers and PVEers should think in each other's shoe, be understanding to each other and respect each others gaming preference

From OP: This thread was NOT inteded to be about PvE'rs vs PvP'rs. Accordingly, I think that there’s an unstated premise here…

GW Gamers can choose to play only PvE, only PvP, or BOTH PvE & PvP.

If you want 50/50, then the HoM structure generally STEERS gamers into PvE and away from PvP because that’s CURRENTLY the “easier path” to reach 50/50. HoM Titles (in and of themselves) are really only the means to an end = “max rewards” in GW2. Since we all have a limited amount of available game time, the most efficient method of reaching 50/50 is to focus on PvE & avoid PvP altogether. A different HoM structure or alternate reward would serve to incent part of the GW player base to play PvP.

Who knows, maybe the future updates that John blogged about will have the effect of stimulating some of the player base into PvP…

I personally hope so (but that's just me)

HoM rewards are for the storyline PvE players of Guildwars. You know, since about 98% of the game is PvE. So if you want silly and useless titles and items for your GW2 character, play PvE and earn them the way they were designed to be earned.

That's some great advice and since one of the titles is "PvP title," some of us think it should be earned the way it was designed to be earned (i.e. by participating in PvP).

kind of off topic but...

Very interesting choice of words… cooperative & competitive

I presume that you mean:
Cooperative play = humans vs AI
Competitive play = humans vs humans

However, at its core, both GW PvE & PvP are actually all about cooperative play... To play PvP you need to cooperate with team members to kill other teams (coordination leads to a better chance of winning). To play PvE, you need to cooperate with team members to kill the AI (coordination leads to better chance of objective completion). Even if you’re the quintessential casual gamer (H/H solo or soon to be 7 heroes), your play style is actually cooperative with your H/H (although you may have to micro manage more heroes in the future – so be it). As an aside, with the 7 hero structure, you may even actually be inclined to play more solo (unfortunate IMHO, but a likely option for some - especially after GW2 release).

GW is SO RICH and diverse. Ask your self these questions: How many players do you know that have completed EVERY quest in all the games? How many players do you know that have acquired (not unlocked) ALL skills in all the games? How many players do you know that have actually tried EVERY skill in all the games (PvE &/or PvP) ON THEIR OWN BAR? There are simply so many options open to anyone that wants to play GW (although admittedly there are fewer PvP options than PvE options but that's tangential to the point). IMHO, the "fullness" in the game is one main reason why it's been SO successful - since many gamers measure gaming value in $/hr (ie: did I get my moneys worth?)

You can choose to experience it solo if you want to, or you can choose to experience it with other humans. Personally, I prefer gaming with other humans (PvE or PvP) so it doesn’t feel like “solitare”.

So everyone that reached Rank 6-9 fast purely by using oldschool gimmick builds like IWAY and Vimway are better players than a person who reaches Rank 4 purely through nothing but monking?

I dont think they are.

However, IMO the PVE and PVP titles / achievements should be seperate in the HoM. The current system should only be for PVE.

For PVP, there should simply be a title that you get based on your PVP titles that goes something like:

PVP noob
Learning to pwn other kids
I haz super powarz
Pew Pew Pew
I'ma firin mah lazor!
I am teh best, you suck
God of Noobway

That to me seems like a very accurate description of titles that PVP enthusiasts and elitists would like to have.

^ Same can be said about high-end PvE

*sigh*

Every format's going to have it's elitist pricks. I find myself being one at times, and at others I've taken unranked people in my groups on the easiest bars albeit.

A small portion of elitism is needed, however, because otherwise the good players wouldn't win all the time. If all the best players decided to go Ghandi on the scene, they simply wouldn't be winning anymore, because they'dd be playing with 7 worser people for whom they obviously can't make up.

The good people are only the good people because the bad people are the bad. Elitism doesn't come from the highest tier of players being stuck-up, it comes from a natural defence to keep their winning teams winning, and not allowing bad players to sink the ship.

This is simply how life works. In an ideal world, everyone would live in peace and harmony, hold hands all day and sing jolly songs around a bonfire every night.

In reality, the top clings with the top and the bottom with the bottom. When the top says they are better (in whatever branche, skill or aspect), they can only say that because they are, in fact, better.

If you can't handle that simple fact of life: /cutwrists

You dont however need to have rank 10+ in HA to be a good HA player, yet lots of groups demand it. Ascalon win and hold halls lots, and they are a glad 3 or rank 6 guild.

The amount of elitism in PVE is far less than it is in PVP. The only place I have seen it is with UWsc groups requiring a certain number of stones from the end chest. But I've had no problem getting into a FoWsc group for the first time on my monk and winning, and I've done several DWG DoA runs taking absolutely anyone, and its easy enough to manage completely fine on your very first run as long as you simply dont over aggro stuff.

I have NEVER seen PVE guilds or groups only taking on people with a certain title or rank as occurs in PVP, but even then, something like rank 8 lightbringer is far easier to achieve than even rank 3 in HA. I maxed my LB title in DOA too, every group I got into had players as low as rank 5 and it was still incredibly easy.

PVE titles really dont even matter anywhere else other than LB in DoA, and even then wining with a DWG group is still easy enough with only rank 5+ people and maybe even lower, but seriously, mostly everyone will be R5 LB by the time they get to DoA.

The only thing I judge players in PVE on is their skill bar, since a bad skill bar is really the only thing that weakens a group. I were recently trying to complete Eternal Grove HM because I want to fill a Shiro's Return HM book, and tried joining other players with absolutely dire heroes and skill bars themselves. I asked one person I joined if he could hold one side with his heroes on HM, and he replied 'yea sure', loaded up 3 heroes with no secondaries, and pinged them and they still had their base rubbish skillbars with 6 skills and no elite that the heroes come with when you get them. I simply left, added henchies, went as an Ether Renewal prot elly, beat the whole mission with 0 deaths except for a few tree singers, but already had masters so didnt care about that. Then I tried Gyala Hatchery twice and failed, but I'll succeed eventually, just like eternal grove took me several attempts with H/H .

PVPers are little harder to satsified so i m wondering what it would be too though....pvpers don't bother about weapon skins nor do they bother about cash. They don't want anything that is pve related to GW2 like title or armour skin....

why not pvper actually say what reward that pvpers want? Humm....how about more triple bal points ?

It would be imbalanced to do anything other than what Anet is doing. There are so many different PvP tier titles, and it takes so long to get them (at assumed current player amounts, might be impossible for some), that older players with lots of high-end titles would have an unfair advantage at getting those GW2 rewards, and might make PvE'ers feel the need to grind for PvP titles.

Trying to force PvE'ers to grind in RA and CA will make them revolt and injure random people. Any kind of PvP, really. So one title for them is more than enough.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=246