GvG in Crisis. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Woodelf Archer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

The woods

-

R/Mo

18 Apr 2011 at 09:35 - 441

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

yes, its another known problem that there is few to no middle gvg experience guilds, or player base, for that record. cba to discuss the reasons behind that thou, it has been done before too many times already.

Yeh I understand we're 20ish pages into this, so most things have been said. How did the QQ mentoring program go? I've been really out of touch with GW pvp for a good while.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

18 Apr 2011 at 10:20 - 442

There was a QQ mentorship program? If that's referring to kiSu, I always felt like they could have done a lot more with Billiard's connections and the high amount of interest in the project.

Woodelf Archer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

The woods

-

R/Mo

18 Apr 2011 at 10:35 - 443

I don't know, I wasn't around, just reading something on the previous page.

Is there anything else the community can do? The only thing I can think of is Anet putting more backing into GvG but with the way GW2 is looking, i.e major PvE focus, I cannot see that happening.

floor

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

England

Activity Can Be An Issue [afk] / Queen And Country [QC]

Mo/W

18 Apr 2011 at 10:56 - 444

Unless you are forming a complete PUG team which can be difficult, wait times are nowhere near 30 minutes, in most cases even 15 minutes would be an unusually long time to be waiting around. If you are forming a team for gvg, Guild chat was created for a reason, speak to each other, when everyone is free meet in the guild hall and form up. (assuming people have some idea of what bars to play, this takes <5 mins??) Waiting in the gh for other players to show up is very boring, so make sure people are actually free and wanting to play BEFORE you try and form up. If they are just finishing a quest or something, go do a couple of runs in RA so ur not sat around getting bored.

Forming groups is basically a communication skill, the better u know ur team mates the easier it is. A lot of pvp guilds which only have 8-10 players ( ie - all know each other quite well) will all sit on vent together even when not pvping just chatting about stuff, good communication skills make it infinitely easier to form up.

inb4 wait times for matches are awful.
During euro hours: 2-3 minute wait for a ladder gvg maximum.
During American hours: Normally about 5-10 minute wait, sometimes less.
During Asian hours: Forget it, nobody plays since anet removed the asian server 3 years ago, apart from a cuple of americans who stay up rly late, or some no life euros who dont have school or a job to go to.

tl;dr The better u know ur team mates, the less time it takes to form up. And wait times for matches may not be as small as they were 4 years ago, but waiting a couple of minutes for a match is still not as bad as some ppl make it out to be.

Missing HB

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Anna

A/

18 Apr 2011 at 11:47 - 445

Quote:

Originally Posted by floor

During euro hours: 2-3 minute wait for a ladder gvg maximum.
During American hours: Normally about 5-10 minute wait, sometimes less.
During Asian hours: Forget it, nobody plays since anet removed the asian server 3 years ago, apart from a cuple of americans who stay up rly late, or some no life euros who dont have school or a job to go to.

I hope you realize that it means it's impossible to play GvG from about 1 am until 6pm GMT( already tried many times to play on these hours anyway there's noone to fight apart of AT's)....Pretty sure not only no life euros or jobless people do play on those hours

floor

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

England

Activity Can Be An Issue [afk] / Queen And Country [QC]

Mo/W

18 Apr 2011 at 11:58 - 446

1am -5am GMT is american hours....

Between about 5am and 10am the ladder is full of 1200+ rating guilds syncing with each other for champ points (yes this still happens, people are just smart enough to stay off obs mode now), then there is the B AT at around 12GMT, which normally has about 4 teams in it + a bunch of 2nd account guilds who forfeit, and then there are a few other guilds who play ladder, a couple of asians and usually a few euros. But in comparison to peak euro hours (7-11pm GMT), or even american hours, (1am - 5am GMT), gvg at this time of day is totally dead.

So to correct my earlier post if u prefer, between about 5am - 5pm GMT, you WILL wait much longer for matches as there is significantly less people playing gvg. but yes if u wait long enough u can still get an opponent. Fortunately, i guess around 75% of the gvg playerbase is euro, 20% is american, and only 5% or so are japanese/korean/australian or whoever else would want to play during these "dead hours", so looking at the big picture very few people are affected by longer waits between these times.

Billiard

Doctor of Philosophy

Join Date: May 2005

Pacific Northwest

Team Love [kiSu] www.teamlove.us

18 Apr 2011 at 14:55 - 447

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

There was a QQ mentorship program? If that's referring to kiSu, I always felt like they could have done a lot more with Billiard's connections and the high amount of interest in the project.

At one time we had 5 guilds working with players of varying skill levels. One of the main issues with the brand new PvPers is that once they got some experience, they always wanted to move up to a better group of players rather than stick around and mentor more newbies who were just coming in. Mentoring newbies could be a lot of work with only intrinsic rewards, and usually when I got outside mentors they would only work with folks who had some experience.

Also, it was always really hard to get new PvPers to realize that it took hundreds if not thousands of hours of experience in order to reach a decent level of performance. As such they had a lot of catching up to do. We had a bootcamp of sorts for new players to practice various builds in RA, but a lot of folks didn't like practicing before they ran a build in a GvG, not realizing that their inexperience with the build was such a drag on the rest of the team.

Anyway I just this month took down the kiSu 100 person Vent after running it for 3 years. I might put up a mumble server instead and have thought about kick starting kiSu once again. The main problem I have now is that I teach nights and have a ton of work to do until the middle of May. This summer though I am pretty much off. If some of the old kiSu folks or old mentors are interested, I could start organizing things again.

Jacobbs

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2010

Mo/

20 Apr 2011 at 04:18 - 448

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

If some of the old kiSu folks or old mentors are interested, I could start organizing things again.

I'm kickin' around just PvE'ing but will be in China for part of the summer. I'm down for playing.

Deviant

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Austin, Tx

The Furies

Me/Mo

20 Apr 2011 at 20:29 - 449

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

Anyway I just this month took down the kiSu 100 person Vent after running it for 3 years. I might put up a mumble server instead and have thought about kick starting kiSu once again. The main problem I have now is that I teach nights and have a ton of work to do until the middle of May. This summer though I am pretty much off. If some of the old kiSu folks or old mentors are interested, I could start organizing things again.

My suggestion would be to combine efforts. As I understand it there are multiple guilds that Lemming and Happy have been working with on gaining GvG experience. Perhaps those guilds could be combined into a single kiSu guild leading the alliance?

That way Lemming and Happy could continue to mentor inside those other guilds, new players that don't have a real spot in those guilds could go to the kiSu guild, and everyone would be able to form PUGs for extra practice / more informal play.

I tried to help out at various stages of kiSu in the past, and would be willing to help again where I can. I have a new baby so my time is limited short-term, but as a collaborative effort we might see even more traction on getting players converting / participating in GvG.

Billiard

Doctor of Philosophy

Join Date: May 2005

Pacific Northwest

Team Love [kiSu] www.teamlove.us

20 Apr 2011 at 20:45 - 450

Good to see you two again Jacobbs and Deviant! I will work on contacting folks and building up some infrastructure now as I can, and hopefully can get back in game again playing soon as well.

Missing HB

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Anna

A/

21 Apr 2011 at 07:14 - 451

A bit off topic but , what's up with that poll concerning ladder reset?? An other thing forgotten or ..?

Next Top Runner

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2011

Northeast United States

Electric Celerity

A/R

23 Apr 2011 at 00:27 - 452

I never had much interest in PvP in this game because there is ONE build that reigns supreme for all which makes it hardly any fun...I will stick to what I am good at which is running.

The only fun PvP I ever did was 1v1. Most build-diverse PvP opportunity in GW.

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

PA

Us Are Not [leet]

W/

23 Apr 2011 at 00:31 - 453

Quote:

Originally Posted by Next Top Runner

I never had much interest in PvP in this game because there is ONE build that reigns supreme for all which makes it hardly any fun...I will stick to what I am good at which is running.

The only fun PvP I ever did was 1v1. Most build-diverse PvP opportunity in GW.

You should try BYOB (Bring Your Own Build), it wont win an AT, but it is always fun.

EDIT: You also do a lot of running, there is a reason people call it Mario Kart.

Why?

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

Society Of Souls [Argh]

N/Me

25 Apr 2011 at 02:01 - 454

as was mentioned, the largest problem with gw pvp is the crazy amount of experience needed to even have a chance. That one steppingstone will make it impossible for the majority of players to ever play it. It is why I personally am not interested. There are much better games where you can pretty much jump right on without spending countless hours training with other people to be decent.

But GW2 will have pvp, and it will be good. Just because they haven't announced much about it does not mean it will not be there. There are reports the main peoples have been pvping in GW2 for over a thousand hours.

pinkeyflower

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2010

25 Apr 2011 at 02:56 - 455

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why?

as was mentioned, the largest problem with gw pvp is the crazy amount of experience needed to even have a chance. That one steppingstone will make it impossible for the majority of players to ever play it. It is why I personally am not interested. There are much better games where you can pretty much jump right on without spending countless hours training with other people to be decent.

But GW2 will have pvp, and it will be good. Just because they haven't announced much about it does not mean it will not be there. There are reports the main peoples have been pvping in GW2 for over a thousand hours.

Doesn't mean that PvP will be good. Remember most devs are never amazingly good at their own game and simply testing it to want they think is good may not suffice for the entire population. It can only be balanced when top players start playing it.

Ritchiebaxter

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2011

Random Arena

Noble Honor

Mo/W

25 Apr 2011 at 18:20 - 456

My guild plays all Pvp but not GvG. We are a competitive guild and don't like to lose to much. This is why we don't play GvG.
We all know that after some hard crushing defeats our heads will hang, moral will drop and that will be the last time we play GvG.
I am sure this is what pve players will do when they try GvG for the first time Most people can tolerate a few losses but eventually give up. Its no fun to get completely smashed by veteran GvG-ers.
So in a nut shell, the time it takes to learn GvG and become fairly decent or even a mediocre guild far exceeds the tolerance time off new players

Zeldawind

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Netherlands

Wrong Target [CrAP]

25 Apr 2011 at 18:48 - 457

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ritchiebaxter

My guild plays all Pvp but not GvG. We are a competitive guild and don't like to lose to much. This is why we don't play GvG.
We all know that after some hard crushing defeats our heads will hang, moral will drop and that will be the last time we play GvG.
I am sure this is what pve players will do when they try GvG for the first time Most people can tolerate a few losses but eventually give up. Its no fun to get completely smashed by veteran GvG-ers.
So in a nut shell, the time it takes to learn GvG and become fairly decent or even a mediocre guild far exceeds the tolerance time off new players

I wonder if more people are having issues whit this.

If so then wouldn't a implemention of a uhm i'll call it league system, more or less like the guru tournament has.

That every month is a competition for every league and that the monthly tournaments are like qualifier rounds to determine if you need to promote to a higher level. This way you get pooled as starter whit other starters, or not really good teams and you slowly but surely get higher if you're better than the current league which you're in.

Edit:
Supplement, the thing is i don't know if it's feasable to implement such a system (and i gues it will also mean that champion title track would be kinda off the track since there is no real way to give fair points to it, or is there?) since i can imagine it's quite a bit of work for anet to implement and maintain such a system?

On a side note:
Btw i'm a former GvG-er who has recently came back, last serious GvG i've done whit my old squad was the Celestial tournament. After that i kinda hang around in the Clan Detained's smurf guild Exorsus Nox and British Bulldogs for HA'ing and a tad of GvG whit them.

But right now GvG isn't really interesting for me to get back into to stale meta, no VoD-play, NPC area is a joke. The old school splitting style which i love'd seems kinda well pointless in this form of GvG.
Next to that university costs to much time during the week so only playing during the weekend isn't enough to really get back into GvG.

Otherwise i think i would try to get a bit into GvG again whit a guild who's only interested for fun GvG and just play onorthodox builds whitout the necessity to participate in tournaments and all.

Deviant

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Austin, Tx

The Furies

Me/Mo

26 Apr 2011 at 02:55 - 458

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why?

as was mentioned, the largest problem with gw pvp is the crazy amount of experience needed to even have a chance. That one steppingstone will make it impossible for the majority of players to ever play it. It is why I personally am not interested. There are much better games where you can pretty much jump right on without spending countless hours training with other people to be decent.

But GW2 will have pvp, and it will be good. Just because they haven't announced much about it does not mean it will not be there. There are reports the main peoples have been pvping in GW2 for over a thousand hours.

If a game is made so that it's "easy to jump in" and be competitive with top-tier players then top-tier players themselves have little incentive to participate. There should be a disparity in outcome and difficulty for non-PUG organized PvP format. Honestly, I hope the same is true for GW2.

However, it's important to note that the measure of jumping into a game shouldn't be the ability to compete at a high level, but the ability for a team to at least have fun by understanding the basics. At this point one of the difficulties is that most of the players who do participate in GvG have literally years of experience on new players.

What's the solution? I think it's a combination of a couple factors. First it's a matter of arming new GvG players with the building blocks to be effective even if ultimately unsuccessful in winning a high percentage of games. Then it's incentive for players to play even if they aren't winning.

The latter is up to ArenaNet, and it's something I hope they will do. If such a change were to take place then you might see an influx of PvE players playing, which means more teams would have matches against teams who are also inexperienced.

The former is up to players like Lemming, Happy, Billiard, and others to provide an environment that fosters improving players and team's skill sets. What I really wish someone would do is start creating clinics where they invite good players to scrimmage and discuss / show some of the nuances of playing the characters in an organized PvP format. Then upload them to Youtube or somewhere that players could reference at their own pace.

Missing HB

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Anna

A/

26 Apr 2011 at 06:52 - 459

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeldawind

If so then wouldn't a implemention of a uhm i'll call it league system, more or less like the guru tournament has.

That every month is a competition for every league and that the monthly tournaments are like qualifier rounds to determine if you need to promote to a higher level. This way you get pooled as starter whit other starters, or not really good teams and you slowly but surely get higher if you're better than the current league which you're in.

League system permanently wouldn't work , since the number of guilds playing is very low and wouldn't change a lot .... Either players wouldn't face anyone on low leagues , either they would fight people from better leagues and it's same as today....

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

PA

Us Are Not [leet]

W/

05 May 2011 at 11:18 - 460

I have finally gotten around to creating a guild for new PvP players, or those who just want to give GvG a try. Right now I am trying to just get members and farm the GvG Zaishen Combat quest running BYOB (Bring Your Own Build). The only requirements are that you have mumble, a mic, and are willing to listen to calls.

The guild will be rage free, and I am trying to create a good environment for new players to get their feet wet, and hopefully increase interest in GvG. If you would like to join PM me here on the forums or in-game. IGN - Josh Ruchko.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

05 May 2011 at 12:18 - 461

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

I have finally gotten around to creating a guild for new PvP players, or those who just want to give GvG a try. Right now I am trying to just get members and farm the GvG Zaishen Combat quest running BYOB (Bring Your Own Build). The only requirements are that you have mumble, a mic, and are willing to listen to calls.

The guild will be rage free, and I am trying to create a good environment for new players to get their feet wet, and hopefully increase interest in GvG. If you would like to join PM me here on the forums or in-game. IGN - Josh Ruchko.

I'dd like to give you a tip though:

Byob can be fun and all (it's the only GvG I play, as regular GvG is hardly fun anymore), but alot often depends on the skills you bring. I know it kinda goes against the nature of byob to make sure people bring good builds, but there simply isn't any fun in byob if you bring some effective sin bar, and everyone else running wammo's or smth.

In short:

Run byob, but kindly ask people that instead of running the bar they want, they run the most closely related 'gimmick' (read: meta/effective) bar there is.

For example:

Someone pings a bar with mind freeze, malestrom, ice spikes, ice prism, ... This bar surely isn't bad, but for all intents and purposes (in GvG), a standard MoI bar is simply better (red: best) in every way. So you simply ask this person to run he standard MoI bar (which has proven itself to be highly effective) as you've just doubled your chances of winning.

Since most shitty bars people ping can be converted to a "closely related meta bar which plays almost identical", it would be a good idea of doing so. Essentially, everyone can still run whatever they want, and you have alot better chances of winning aswell. (And winning = learning)

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

PA

Us Are Not [leet]

W/

05 May 2011 at 12:47 - 462

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I'dd like to give you a tip though:

Byob can be fun and all (it's the only GvG I play, as regular GvG is hardly fun anymore), but alot often depends on the skills you bring. I know it kinda goes against the nature of byob to make sure people bring good builds, but there simply isn't any fun in byob if you bring some effective sin bar, and everyone else running wammo's or smth.

In short:

Run byob, but kindly ask people that instead of running the bar they want, they run the most closely related 'gimmick' (read: meta/effective) bar there is.

For example:

Someone pings a bar with mind freeze, malestrom, ice spikes, ice prism, ... This bar surely isn't bad, but for all intents and purposes (in GvG), a standard MoI bar is simply better (red: best) in every way. So you simply ask this person to run he standard MoI bar (which has proven itself to be highly effective) as you've just doubled your chances of winning.

Since most shitty bars people ping can be converted to a "closely related meta bar which plays almost identical", it would be a good idea of doing so. Essentially, everyone can still run whatever they want, and you have alot better chances of winning aswell. (And winning = learning)

I am fully aware of that, and while it is BYOB I intend to have people run effective bars. At the same time though, I will allow stubborn players to play an ineffective bar so they can learn WHY it is ineffective. If they are unable to learn from their mistakes, and continue to drag the team down due to their selfishness I have no problem kicking them.

It is a guild for beginners, but players who refuse to show a willingness to improve are better off not playing GvG IMO, it will cause nothing but frustration to everyone around them.

I feel I should also add that I was the leader of a top 200 guild back in 2008, and we were still climbing and improving however I was in the army and got deployed, and the guild fell apart. While I am still a bit rusty, I am still confident I can at least get players at a decent level where they can become good enough to join more serious guilds.

If anyone with a good amount of GvG experience would like to member with a second account or help out at all it would be a huge help.

The guild is going to play BYOB for several reasons:
-Fastest way for new players to learn the importance of communication and how to communicate properly.
-Fastest way to get players to be more adaptive and how to recognize and capitalize on opponents mistakes.
-BYOB has been the best way to improve positioning and how to not die from my experience.
-Due to little/no real backline players are forced to learn how to make the most out of their bars, both offensively and defensively.
-Because there is so much running around the map, players learn the different maps faster, and how each map affects builds and strategy.
-Increases players awareness of both mini-map and time, and will allow them to learn why they are important.

Overall, in my experience, BYOB simply provides the fastest growth of new/inexperienced players in GvG. Once they are good in the areas listed above they shouldn't have any issues playing most organized team builds. They wont be great, but they wont be terrible either.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

05 May 2011 at 12:57 - 463

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

I am fully aware of that, and while it is BYOB I intend to have people run effective bars. At the same time though, I will allow stubborn players to play an ineffective bar so they can learn WHY it is ineffective. If they are unable to learn from their mistakes, and continue to drag the team down due to their selfishness I have no problem kicking them.

It is a guild for beginners, but players who refuse to show a willingness to improve are better off not playing GvG IMO, it will cause nothing but frustration to everyone around them.

I feel I should also add that I was the leader of a top 200 guild back in 2008, and we were still climbing and improving however I was in the army and got deployed, and the guild fell apart. While I am still a bit rusty, I am still confident I can at least get players at a decent level where they can become good enough to join more serious guilds.

If anyone with a good amount of GvG experience would like to member with a second account or help out at all it would be a huge help.

You can always add me on your friendlist to pm whenever you're doing some byob, as I know first hand how hard it can be at times to get 8 people together from scratch.

I'm on at random times, so maybe you'll catch me on, and I got a fair amount of GvG experience. I am on a shitty laptop during weekdays, though, but concidering you'll be playing with inexperience people (no offence intended), I definatly don't think I'll be amongst the worst

Gl

IGN: Evangelia Atreides

tealspikes

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2009

07 May 2011 at 14:58 - 464

Using BYOB to introduce newbies to GvG...It would be better to have a large pool of 'working' split builds (mb ele, wc sin, iop mez, etc.) and let players decide between them. Newbies bringing their RA bars into GvG isn't going to teach them very much, especially when they are losing most of their games because of it. It would also be wise to take two monks instead of one since it's much easier to push and focus on tactics with a second monk, and it's a larger safety net for newer players who are still learning about positioning. 1 monk often means games will be lost so fast before they even realize what happened or what mistakes to improve upon, especially with the triple dervish meta rolling so fast through everything.

I've guested for friends' guilds that tried to do exactly as yours, and the new players lose interest faster than they improve when you just throw in them in the fire and expect them to adapt and learn. Give them working builds, and give them a second monk. From my experience that is the best way to help them improve (aside from an actual teambuild) while keeping their interest.

Dervish Kid

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

Florida

D/

07 May 2011 at 16:01 - 465

I do pve on this game, pvp on a few other mmos.. i like the idea, but gw1 pvp is just meeeh.

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

PA

Us Are Not [leet]

W/

07 May 2011 at 16:55 - 466

I disagree, the reason for allowing them to experiment a bit is so they can understand why certain bars are ran, and why players use 1 skill over another. If they are not allowed to learn from their own failures they will never have a chance at becoming a top tier player. Right now I currently see a very small handful of guilds trying anything new, everyone else simply copies them. It is easy to see which players have had a chance to learn through their own mistakes, and players who simply copy other bars.

That doesn't mean you cannot become great if you stick to a build, rawr proved that. I would just prefer to have players that are capable of thinking for themselves and being versatile with what they can run like dR.

I would rather have a player with a good understanding of skill interactions and the ability to run almost any build well over a player who can't succeed without copying others. The downside is that they usually improve at a slower rate at first, but once things start to click they will surpass the players who just run meta.

Before anyone comments, I understand that this isn't true for everybody. It is just my opinion on the matter.

EDIT: I should also add that I am not claiming I can produce top tier players. I am only trying to give new PvP players a solid base from which to build upon.

Pvp Shuttle Service

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2011

Ancient Warriors

W/E

07 May 2011 at 19:50 - 467

Hi I'd be interested in GvGing with any guild really, I just want to get some experience, I'm really a complete noob to GvG, at PvP I'm allright.. no g title

In game name: Pvp shuttle service or Gail alley

floor

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

England

Activity Can Be An Issue [afk] / Queen And Country [QC]

Mo/W

08 May 2011 at 18:02 - 468

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Kid

I do pve on this game, pvp on a few other mmos.. i like the idea, but gw1 pvp is just meeeh.

Of course ur perfectly entitled to hold that opinion, but from what i can tell most people who dislike pvp in guild wars (GvG and HA) in particular are the 90% of people who only game very casually.

In games such as league of legends, or other popular PvP games out at the moment, you can get the game and after only 1 week you are able to play pvp at a pretty functional level. Im not claiming you are going to be world beater but you can at least not be totally clueless.

On the other hand guild wars.... It can take months of playing to actually understand all the intricacies of the game, and if you only play once or twice a week, it could take literally years. To be good at guild wars, you do need to be a relatively hardcore gamer, and most people simply are not motivated enough to commit the required time i guess.

As a more on topic note though, if you want new players to improve the fastest way is to just give them 1to1 guidance on a regular basis. Get someone good, and buddy them up with someone new for a month or so. At the end of the month, if ur decent player was an evenly remotely decent teacher, ur "newbie" is probably now a top 300 player.

The problem here is that you need to find someone good, who is actually willing to take a complete beginner under their arm and show them the ropes. Unfortunately finding good people with a large amount of patience, and also the ability to "teach" is not so easy. The biggest problem that most people in guild wars have when they try and teach beginners, is that they are not teachers. Breaking down tactics and skills into the absolute basics is not easy and most people either cant do this, or simply dont bother, but thats what has to be done in order for new ppl to learn. Telling your beginner team to simply push a flagger is absolutely useless if they have no idea why they are doing it, or even how to go about it.

The same theory applies in all real life activities as well, group coaching is never as effective as 1to1 tuition.

Ritchiebaxter

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2011

Random Arena

Noble Honor

Mo/W

10 May 2011 at 06:35 - 469

I like what you have done there Sk8tborderx. I would like to join you as a guest if that is ok? GvG is the only PvP I have not got to grips with and I am willing to take some good beatings in the learning process. If guest invites are ok with you then contact me IG Yen Lo Wang I

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

PA

Us Are Not [leet]

W/

14 May 2011 at 08:18 - 470

The guild is disbanded as of yesterday due to real life getting in the way. I now remember my biggest reason for quitting GvG a few years ago, you spend more time setting up for GvG then actually playing. Hopefully GW2 fixes this problem.

Sorry to anyone who showed interest, just keep watching the guild recruitment section, you can usually find a new GvG guild there.

Deviant

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Austin, Tx

The Furies

Me/Mo

14 May 2011 at 20:47 - 471

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

I now remember my biggest reason for quitting GvG a few years ago, you spend more time setting up for GvG then actually playing. Hopefully GW2 fixes this problem.

There's GvG going on, but you need a group of people with consistent logging habits or a large group of people to pull from such as in an alliance of guilds that also GvG.

For GW2 the 5v5 format for structured PvP has already been announced. That means it's easier to form a group, and it also means more, smaller groups. Not to mention of course more people will be playing it since it will be a new game.

infi

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

17 May 2011 at 06:00 - 472

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant

There's GvG going on, but you need a group of people with consistent logging habits or a large group of people to pull from such as in an alliance of guilds that also GvG.

For GW2 the 5v5 format for structured PvP has already been announced. That means it's easier to form a group, and it also means more, smaller groups. Not to mention of course more people will be playing it since it will be a new game.

i disagree. how can it be easier if level of personal skill will grow up with group of 5 men. So you must get right people if you don't want to lose all the time. yes you will need less players but they must be better at the same time.

Deviant

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Austin, Tx

The Furies

Me/Mo

17 May 2011 at 07:00 - 473

Well, if they have any sort of ELO rating ladder system like they have now then you won't need better players. Obviously better players means you'll win more and face better teams, but so what?

Are you suggesting that it would be the same or harder than it is now? It's such a pain to find two Monks (sometimes that only want to play Prot or Heal only), a decent flagger, 2-3 melee, and 2-3 mid-line. That's a lot of work to form a team.

Compare that to 5 of any type of players to organize a match. It's not even close.

floor

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

England

Activity Can Be An Issue [afk] / Queen And Country [QC]

Mo/W

17 May 2011 at 17:12 - 474

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant

Well, if they have any sort of ELO rating ladder system like they have now then you won't need better players. Obviously better players means you'll win more and face better teams, but so what?

Are you suggesting that it would be the same or harder than it is now? It's such a pain to find two Monks (sometimes that only want to play Prot or Heal only), a decent flagger, 2-3 melee, and 2-3 mid-line. That's a lot of work to form a team.

Compare that to 5 of any type of players to organize a match. It's not even close.

U say that, but theres a reason that a lot of people do still GvG and didnt entirely move to LoL. 5v5 with random professions is trash and gets boring in a couple months. Im aware this is probably the route anet are going down, but i think its a big mistake. If GW2 is just another HoN/LoL, im gna be absolultey gutted honestly. They could do better by just re-releasing the current gvg concept, and just introducing new skills and professions, then getting the new influx of players involved.

GvG is 6 years old and STILL BETTER than LoL/HoN and any other dota clones, its just got inactive. Why anet wanted to make big changes to something that isnt broken is entirely beyond me. In times gone by, finding 8 people to GvG was not a challenge in the slightest. 5v5, no monks, LoL clone, are all reasons why gw2 is going to absolutely suck. It has a hell of a reputation to live up to, and in PvE i have no doubt it will, but i cant see gvg or even pvp in general ever being as good as gw1.

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

17 May 2011 at 18:25 - 475

It(gw+gw2) won't be as good as gw used to be.
They seem to attract a younger public (less hardcore 'talented') with all their changes.
Thats gonne be the trend for gw2 also I'm affraid.
All depth is gone.

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

17 May 2011 at 18:52 - 476

Quote:

Originally Posted by floor

U say that, but theres a reason that a lot of people do still GvG and didnt entirely move to LoL. 5v5 with random professions is trash and gets boring in a couple months. Im aware this is probably the route anet are going down, but i think its a big mistake. If GW2 is just another HoN/LoL, im gna be absolultey gutted honestly. They could do better by just re-releasing the current gvg concept, and just introducing new skills and professions, then getting the new influx of players involved.

What? You realize that you can do 5v5 random AND 5v5 in organized teams, right?

This also has to be the first time I've ever heard GW2 called a "LoL clone"...lol.

miriforst

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2009

Avalons Wraiths

R/Rt

17 May 2011 at 19:33 - 477

I got a slight problem, i adore the gvg formate (until a certain profession with scythes entered the stage *cough*) but i am bound by loyalty to a guild that does not set a foot outside of factionland.

I still try to teach people different pvp mechanics and strategies and suggest builds fo their professions though. Helped a guy with the basics of playing an eviscerate warrior, and he was willing to learn and impressed by what he could do if he really focused. So thats one alliance member, now left 998 - the ones who i do not know of who is lurking around with knowledge.

I am thinking of organizing a LAN party for my friends who do not play guild wars. Last time we did some scrimnaging and to my surprise they actually liked it and got the basic hangs of it (for being like the first time). So maybe in the future we may form a casual gvg team if we try really hard (oh my hopeless optimism, but one can hope right?).

tealspikes

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2009

20 May 2011 at 00:56 - 478

I suspect Gw2 PvP will be more like Bloodline Champions than League of Legends. Almost everything we've heard about the combat so far points to BLC.

It's true that Gw2 will be targeting a much less hardcore crowd, but the biggest problem with GvG was its accessibility. Gw1 was on the other side of the spectrum of being too exclusive. While each of us has our own preference on hardcore vs casual, I think everyone can agree where money is.

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

20 May 2011 at 02:24 - 479

Quote:

Originally Posted by infi

yes you will need less players but they must be better at the same time.

This is something that people seem to either be forgetting, overlooking, or just not thinking about.

People think that smaller teams means it would be easier to get in and while its easier to get the appropriate number of warm bodies, each player has to pull [roughly] 1/5 of the team instead of 1/8, so an inexperienced player is more of a liability. I would expect PuG groups to become far more selective far faster in a 5 man team environment than they did in the current 8 man.

malo

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2007

23 May 2011 at 01:05 - 480

Heroes must be allowed in gvg again, it's impossible to get a gvg at american time... Removing them and putting a crappy henchmens instead heroes is just one of the worst update ever ( Team arenas too ) .