What Kind of Builds Will you create with 7 Heroes?

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

I didn't save the screenshot, but Jeydra completed RHG with ease using 7H already; I believe the bars were similar to yours but there was some sort of sandstorm bollocks going on.

Although you already know that and he was using a caster and you're not. I'm not sure if Jeydra actually went on to finish gloom. As he put it, the cave in gloom is BLA revisited, which means a crapton of aoe is going to win it. There was also EBSoH boosting the nukes from his whole team, which I don't have. More stupid mistakes(and terrible minion overagros) prevented me from getting to the fifth room tonight. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have better news lol.

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

07 Mar 2011 at 11:01 - 644

Necro has no good elites(i have way too much shutdown for ss to be useful). Ele has savannah, sandstorm, and unsteady, none of which are that appealing. Perhaps an ER prot and drop some of the defense off of other heroes...? I'm not really sure what to go with at this point. Pain of Disenchantment will do more than SS, but not much. At least a Curses Nec with PoD and MoP can serve as a platform for PS and SoA.
Is there anything in the DoA that's being really problematic? What kills you whenever you go?

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

08 Mar 2011 at 14:58 - 645

Foundry is really difficult, with stuff like Earthquake hitting for almost 400 damage, not to mention deadly Fire nukes. What's even worse about the area is that you can't see the monsters before they spawn, and there's no telling where they will spawn. I've had several tries where the Terrorblade Dryders spawned almost on top of me, which leads immediately to Searing Flames + Meteor = all dead. The third room still beats my imagination. I can't aggro just one patrol; I inevitably get both Rage and Anguish Titans homing in on my position. If that were it it would be fine, but when they die they spawn more Titans ... I can handle one mob, but not both.

I'm not making any progress. I'm hopeful it can be done somehow, but so far I'm not seeing how.

@Gloom - no, I didn't finish Gloom. I was unfamiliar with the popups after clearing the Cave. It went something like, "omgwtf a popup" -> "thank God I survived that" -> "OMGWTF ANOTHER POPUP" -> wipe. Still, based on what I remember from NM (which is not a lot), then after clearing the Cave it should be fairly straightforward to the finish.

Life Bringing

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08 Mar 2011 at 16:21 - 646

I've been able to consistently get past third room(I'll post a screen later of where I'm flagging jeydra, although I think SY is a major part of my success. Consider bring ward against elements). My problem has been the third spawn of room four which is 3 dementias, 3 rages, and 3 despairs. I don't know how I got past it that first time but I havent been able to since. Oddly enough, the spike skills of the despair titans(FoC, defile enchants, etc) are much more threatening than the nukes of the rage titans because of SY.

Also jeydra, the inevitable agro of the mesmer titans while you're still cleaning up the remaining dementias after the rages WILL happen. I usually have a handful left when the mesmers agro my heroes. Fortunately, if you just ignore the mesmers they do almost no damage.

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

08 Mar 2011 at 18:57 - 647

I'm surprised you are so successful with minimal prot overlap. I would run an ST Rit AND an ER E/Mo. This way, you are covered in case either fails. At this point, simply pump damage with heals spread on a few chars. Mobs in DoA lack powerful heals (if you sit on the monks), so they will automatically lose a war of attrition against any decent DPS. The biggest issue is keeping yourself alive through WTFDamage, which can be done with the above.

This would be my biggest piece of advice from running with humans, but I have yet to take my heroes in (Survivor doesn't play well with DoA). When I do I'll post.

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

08 Mar 2011 at 22:25 - 648

Tactics play a significant role in the DoA. An ST Rit would be of minimal benefit if your aggro control is bad since the sheer number of enemies and triggers will cause the spirits to explode very quickly. If your aggro control is good then in the ideal case, the ST Rit is redundant.

Life Bringing

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09 Mar 2011 at 00:37 - 649

Finally made some progress, on this run of all runs. The run started with me showing Jeydra how im currently doing rooms 1-3 real quick before he had to go. I decided to keep going and cleared room 4 with a team of 7 and without prots. Went on to kill ~5 mobs in big room before i agroed a margo group and didnt look at the team comp too carefully. There were 2 Kis, and I was unable to pressure them out quick enough before my gimped team was spiked down by the Sus and Runds. I still managed to kill everything but a Vu with most of my team dead and my UA frantically spamming.

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

09 Mar 2011 at 00:55 - 650

I thought the issue was aggro management, in the cases that the mobs are spawning on people and you already don't have control?

Can't wait to get in there.

Life Bringing

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09 Mar 2011 at 01:30 - 651

The only room in which you can't avoid being spawned on top of is room 2. However, you can easily use this to your advantage by flagging your heroes throughout the room before popping it. They spawn in a cluster, so Panic and PI more or less take care of them. The real issue is that the enemies in DoA will instantly go for your backline. It's nearly impossible to keep titans on you and thus they wreak havoc on your backline if not properly shut down. This is especially prevalent in room 3 and the second and third spawns of room 4(15 dementias and 3 rages, despairs, and dementias, respectively). You occasionally will get a mob that spawns within range in room 4 but it is usually manageable.

Knowing how the dryders work helps a great deal as well. If you have experience with fow, the behave exactly the same way as spirit shepherds in that they are perfectly happy to sit at longbow range and autoattack. They will not move up to cast on your party, and if you're a sin, for some reason they won't cast on you at all.

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

09 Mar 2011 at 03:32 - 652

The real issue is that the enemies in DoA will instantly go for your backline. It's nearly impossible to keep titans on you and thus they wreak havoc on your backline if not properly shut down. This does annoy me a lot, but with some decent corner blocking you should stop the vast majority.

I done veil and gloom using a similar kind of set up to yours with no real issues, and was going very well in foundry until I made a stupid pull in room 3 which needless to say caused an untimely failure. It was my 1st try so I wasn't expecting to go all the way, and I'm sure my next few runs will go much smoother.

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

09 Mar 2011 at 03:51 - 653

Are the pops linked as one group? Would it be possible to "Fallback!" to break aggro, then reengage in smaller groups?

Life Bringing

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09 Mar 2011 at 03:57 - 654

Popups are all one group.

Aga, was that in NM or HM? And the reason i didnt really want to corner block is because i would kill the entire group more or less simultaneously, which i really didnt want because the spawns are generally much more dangerous than the originals. Not always, but you get my point

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

09 Mar 2011 at 04:39 - 655

I cant wait to try DoA with heroes, atm I'm grinding ectos and war supplies, and also saving up for destroyer weps.

I think I'll try get my obsi armor first, Im halfway there on the ecto count, and 7 heroes are steamrolling through UW, except for the 4H.

From now on I'm just going to go through UW clearing stuff without doing quests. I can grind ectos that way, and then try to complete the quests after, rather than attempting the harder quests first and just dying without even making my entry fee back.

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

09 Mar 2011 at 05:23 - 656

Aga, was that in NM or HM? And the reason i didnt really want to corner block is because i would kill the entire group more or less simultaneously, which i really didnt want because the spawns are generally much more dangerous than the originals. Not always, but you get my point Was HM, ofc. However, I do use red rock candies, so I don't have to bring an IAS skill

Tried foundry again, and was going very well got to the 5th room, had it almost clear and got too cocky, rushed into a group....and well...a massive fail followed. Made a few adjustments to my heroes and it's by far the best set up I've tried as of yet.

Don't have the team builder thing installed yet, so have to make do with a screenie.

Nec bar isn't the best, but works well with the inept mes, and I was stuggling to find a better alterative.

Life Bringing

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09 Mar 2011 at 05:28 - 657

Was HM, ofc. However, I do use red rock candies, so I don't have to bring an IAS skill

Originally Posted by aga

Tried foundry again, and was going very well got to the 5th room, had it almost clear and got too cocky, rushed into a group....and well...a massive fail followed. Made a few adjustments to my heroes and it's by far the best set up I've tried as of yet. Care to post? I still havent found a decent replacement for my earth ele hero >.>

aga

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09 Mar 2011 at 05:30 - 658

Thought I did post with the reply, guess not, added it now anyway.

Life Bringing

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09 Mar 2011 at 05:39 - 659

Hmm, and that has adequate caster shutdown? I know that an illusion bar has high damage, but between inept and Shared you have a lot of melee shutdown that you dont really need(at least for foundry). Definitely slotting in MoP as that will make killing tons of dementias and furys much faster. Need to do testing to see if Healing Burst>UA+HD/DH or not as well. Anyways, thanks for the post

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

09 Mar 2011 at 05:52 - 660

Sharded burden isn't only for the increased cast times, it also helps a ton when any mobs get past me. But as I said I was really struggling to come up with something better. MoP is a must for me, the group of over 9000 (maybe not quite 9000, but pretty close

) dementia's in the fourth room in foundry drop really fast if I can get a decent corner block on them.

Healing Burst has recently become my favourite monk skill, such a massive skill in every situation.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

09 Mar 2011 at 07:50 - 661

Aga, wouldnt it be better with SS on your nec instead of Shared Burden?

I'll give it a try in a while and see how I manage.

Life Bringing

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09 Mar 2011 at 08:24 - 662

mihi

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2008

09 Mar 2011 at 08:33 - 663

Can Mallyx be done with builds above or still needs DwG spam?

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

09 Mar 2011 at 08:39 - 664

For SS to be effective, enemies have to be able to attack and cast spells. Both of his mesmers focus on not letting that happen, so SS isn't really a great choice. SS isn't that great on heroes anyways because they cast it on whatever you're targeting, which is usually the next target to die, and thus SS is wasted. Thats a good point, it does work in UW though, but it didnt work for me now when I tried Torqua.

I'll need to try something else on top of the mesmers and rits.

I dont have any physicals without minions, so MoP and Splinter wont work unless I add a paragon.

I'm gonna be lame and try discordway.

HigherMinion

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Join Date: May 2008

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09 Mar 2011 at 09:30 - 665

Thats a good point, it does work in UW though, but it didnt work for me now when I tried Torqua.

I'll need to try something else on top of the mesmers and rits.

I dont have any physicals without minions, so MoP and Splinter wont work unless I add a paragon.

I'm gonna be lame and try discordway. Heroes target minions with splinter

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

09 Mar 2011 at 11:21 - 666

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Heroes target minions with splinter Like I said, I dont have any phsical attack without minions.

Why would you take minions into DoA? They wouldnt live long enough.

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

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09 Mar 2011 at 11:32 - 667

Like I said, I dont have any phsical attack without minions.

Why would you take minions into DoA? They wouldnt live long enough. Bodyblock, splinter, Death Nova nukes. Primary damage mitigation upon entering a mob, etc... Why, does that sound bad to you in DoA?

[Nika]

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09 Mar 2011 at 11:36 - 668

Like I said, I dont have any phsical attack without minions.

Why would you take minions into DoA? They wouldnt live long enough. They live long enough to absorb ~200 Dmg -> its worth taking minions to doa.
And Splinter is always usefull, cause Heroes attack with their staffs -> they trigger splinter.

Life Bringing

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09 Mar 2011 at 16:20 - 669

Minions are worth it everywhere in DoA except foundry

Nilator

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Join Date: Dec 2005

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09 Mar 2011 at 16:30 - 670

Originally Posted by [Nika]

They live long enough to absorb ~200 Dmg -> its worth taking minions to doa.
And Splinter is always usefull, cause Heroes attack with their staffs -> they trigger splinter. Heroes will only cast offensive weapon spells on allies wielding martial weapons(spear, sword, hammer, axe, bow, daggers, scythe).

They won't cast it on a staff wielding ally unless forced to

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

09 Mar 2011 at 16:42 - 671

Ok, I done it

I HAD to pop cons at fury, that group is so brutal with heroes, 2 Ki's and all those guardian of komalie's, had to disable most of the hexes on my heroes because of the 200+ hexeater spam from the dream rider ones. It did take many attempts to kill the last group, I ended up having to flag my UA at a safe distance, where it would have been easy to flag far away to break aggro.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

09 Mar 2011 at 17:06 - 672

They live long enough to absorb ~200 Dmg -> its worth taking minions to doa.
And Splinter is always usefull, cause Heroes attack with their staffs -> they trigger splinter. I thought that they would be too weak in there. I just tried it with a jagged bomber and they do stay alive

Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post

Bodyblock, splinter, Death Nova nukes. Primary damage mitigation upon entering a mob, etc... Why, does that sound bad to you in DoA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Nika]

As for splinter on staffs, the AI definitely doesnt cast splinter wep on staff using casters, or at least they wont ever cast it on me.

Life Bringing

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10 Mar 2011 at 01:00 - 673

Friend of mine just did all of it without cons.

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

10 Mar 2011 at 01:43 - 674

Hehe, good on him, but look at the DP on himself and his heroes

.

I wonder how much good SS done, I really don't see the point of it, it's only useful when they all group up, and when that does happen things will start exploding with all the splinter/panic/wastrels/RoJ/inept or whatever you are using.

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

10 Mar 2011 at 21:17 - 675

I think alot of people look to SS to be the great damage dealer, when in actuality, it's also great as causing AI to make mistakes. SS on one target is enough to cause the Monks in the group to fall behind. If you can manage to ball a few targets, they definitely can't keep up then. AI doesn't know how to efficiently prioritize heals. The same thing that makes Heroes bad makes enemies bad as well.

I'm more curious about this chaos storm fad thats going on.

SongOf

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2007

11 Mar 2011 at 02:42 - 676

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

I'm more curious about this chaos storm fad thats going on. If I had to guess, it's because Chaos Storm is armor-ignoring AOE damage

[Nika]

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11 Mar 2011 at 13:34 - 677