Skill Balance 13/11/2010 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Axel Zinfandel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Northeastern Ohio

LaZy

P/W

16 Nov 2010 at 21:23 - 201

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

Enraging charge was nerfed to slow adrenaline gain on hammer warriors. The ability to quickly gain adrenaline has increased exponentially since the game started (spears, flail, and countless other skills added to the game facilitate adren building) which means hammer wars can now spit out skills at a much higher rate than they were ever meant to. In GvG where trip melee builds featuring two hammer wars are very common, this represented a big problem. Therefore, the enraging charge change was both relevant, and necessary.

THIS. If you asked me to keep a 3/4 second, 8 adrenal shout up 100% of the time years ago, I would have laughed right in your face.

I'm not saying it wassn't necessary though. the adrenal-building creep was kind of necessary for warriors and such to deal decent damage.

However it does come at a price

Infanta

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2010

16 Nov 2010 at 22:48 - 202

Before GW2 launches I hope they drastically change every skill in the game. I'd like something new for a change

galactic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2010

W/Mo

17 Nov 2010 at 01:16 - 203

http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/de...l_balances.php

At the bottom it says, "Mirror of Ice Elementalists have been a staple of pressure teams for a while because of their ability to add damage to strong utility hexes like Blurred Vision and Freezing Gust. By increasing the recharge to be in line with their attunement, we hope to provide slightly longer windows of decreased pressure for a successful strip."

This proves how little balancing team knows about pressure builds. The two main pressure builds, hexway and triple warrior, do not carry an MoI. The best spike team, dual ele, carries an MoI. The best split team, triple ele, carries an MoI. The damage from the MoIs is tiny when compared to other midline casters such as an LC, blood spam, ranger, etc. It really only shines in movement control. Staple of pressure teams... WTF

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

17 Nov 2010 at 05:50 - 204

With hexes being just a little less powerful, and heal party being completely destroyed, hexway will actually be even stronger now.

I cant really see the new healing burst helping much. What would be taken off to allow its use? WoH? Doing that mean no more anti spike heal.

MoI on its own isnt even a powerful skill, it just adds a tiny amount of damage on top of already expensive hexes. Spiteful Spirit, VoR, and Spoil Victor are all several times more powerful than MoI is. The only reason why MoI is used as the water ellys elite is because it makes a better choice than the other water elites do.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

17 Nov 2010 at 06:26 - 205

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

MoI on its own isnt even a powerful skill

It actually was.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

17 Nov 2010 at 06:35 - 206

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

It actually was.

Its approximately 30 cold damage, which gets further reduced by armor. Its really not that strong for an elementalist elite. It also only affects the target of your skills, not anyone else hit by any AoE. Its about half as powerful as flare is, even less so because flare is more spammable.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

17 Nov 2010 at 07:50 - 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Its approximately 30 cold damage, which gets further reduced by armor. Its really not that strong for an elementalist elite. It also only affects the target of your skills, not anyone else hit by any AoE. Its about half as powerful as flare is, even less so because flare is more spammable.

I'm not sure you're capable of appreciating how ridiculous 66 armor-ignoring damage on a spike is.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

17 Nov 2010 at 08:25 - 208

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Its approximately 30 cold damage, which gets further reduced by armor. Its really not that strong for an elementalist elite. It also only affects the target of your skills, not anyone else hit by any AoE. Its about half as powerful as flare is, even less so because flare is more spammable.

MoI isn't reduced by armour.

@lemming - plus you snare while spiking ...

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

17 Nov 2010 at 18:12 - 209

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Its approximately 30 cold damage, which gets further reduced by armor. Its really not that strong for an elementalist elite. It also only affects the target of your skills, not anyone else hit by any AoE. Its about half as powerful as flare is, even less so because flare is more spammable.

For starters, as said before, it's armor ignoring damage, the skill has been gliched ever since they updated it to it's current version.

Second, any form of stacking in GW resulted in some kind of OP gimmick.

Conjure warriors (now they're alright, but remember when it was a different packet of dmg), armor stacking, ranger spike (3 arrows hitting at the same time), enchant stacking (SoMW), Spirit Rift + other spell hit at same time (Riftspike) ...

Truth is that stacking damage on top of eachother results in spikes which the game wasn't designed for. The pressure from MoI is barely meh, even compared to regular skills.

It's the fact that it, once again increases the spike potential of a certain character in your team. Most of all, it increases the spike potential on a character which has a redicilous amount of utility, which can only result in an imbalanced bar...

vamp08

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

PA, USA

[COPY]

D/

17 Nov 2010 at 18:25 - 210

No more E-Charge + Insta-Flail spear chucking

Radovan

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2009

17 Nov 2010 at 19:00 - 211

RIP Echarge (QQ)

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

17 Nov 2010 at 19:13 - 212

Enraging Charge is still perfectly fine. The only usable template it killed off is the Stunning Strike Warrior.

Deviant

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Austin, Tx

The Furies

Me/Mo

17 Nov 2010 at 21:06 - 213

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I'd love to see Mirror of Ice get the Smiter's Boon treatment.

I'd rather see a complete rework of the skill to open up new ways to play the Water Elementalist, or make it more efficient at doing the job it is intended to do; rather than it's intended job of defense + snares and then throw in good damage on top of it.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

17 Nov 2010 at 21:23 - 214

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant

I'd rather see a complete rework of the skill to open up new ways to play the Water Elementalist, or make it more efficient at doing the job it is intended to do; rather than it's intended job of defense + snares and then throw in good damage on top of it.

Well sure, that would be ideal. But Smiter's Booning it takes 5 minutes and solves a problem, while re-working it takes time and there are higher priorities.

Deviant

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Austin, Tx

The Furies

Me/Mo

18 Nov 2010 at 00:06 - 215

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Well sure, that would be ideal. But Smiter's Booning it takes 5 minutes and solves a problem, while re-working it takes time and there are higher priorities.

The increased recharge is obviously a band-aid, which is fine, but it still needs to be addressed. Sure, there are other priorities, but that doesn't mean this shouldn't be part of it.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

18 Nov 2010 at 01:23 - 216

Lower damage and make it adjacent AoE. I'm guessing their attempt all along was to make water do something in PvE, that would be better for that purpose.

Boogz

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

Variable Speed Farmers[VsF]

Mo/

18 Nov 2010 at 01:28 - 217

I'd rather see other water elites buffed instead of so much attention at MoI. I'd like to see Water Trident again, it's such an adorable skill.

Still Number One

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

W/

18 Nov 2010 at 01:53 - 218

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant

The increased recharge is obviously a band-aid, which is fine, but it still needs to be addressed. Sure, there are other priorities, but that doesn't mean this shouldn't be part of it.

But do you really trust A.Net to give Mirror of Ice a new mechanic that is actually usable but not overpowered? After their 5 year history of skill balances, I certainly don't. Ideally Smiter's Boon should have also been redesigned. But just like Mirror of Ice, the chances of A.Net redesigning it into something actually interesting that isn't OP isn't very good. I'd rather have it Smiter's Booned and not be a problem then left alone, or reworked into a whole different problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

I'd rather see other water elites buffed instead of so much attention at MoI. I'd like to see Water Trident again, it's such an adorable skill.

So you'd rather see more ridiculously OP Water Elites damaging the game even more rather then actually fixing the game? The key to stopping OP skills isn't to make more skills OP. It is to make the skill itself not OP. You don't fix problems by making more problems.

galactic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2010

W/Mo

18 Nov 2010 at 02:03 - 219

Is it better to use AoR instead of attunement? If the other team is any good its just going to be stripped and then your sitting with an exposed MoI with a 45 second recharge and a 2 second casting time.

Deviant

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Austin, Tx

The Furies

Me/Mo

18 Nov 2010 at 02:21 - 220

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

But do you really trust A.Net to give Mirror of Ice a new mechanic that is actually usable but not overpowered?

I was thinking something like having it reduce the Energy cost of non-Hex Water Magic spells and increase the duration of Water Magic Hexes by 0..30%. The goal would be to strengthen the existing Water Hexes used, but also introduce an interesting new aspect of encouraging players to take non-Hex Water Magic skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by galactic

Is it better to use AoR instead of attunement? If the other team is any good its just going to be stripped and then your sitting with an exposed MoI with a 45 second recharge and a 2 second casting time.

Not on a Water Elementalist. Their skills are almost all 10e. The Air Elementalist it's a good option for, because it uses some 5e skills.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

18 Nov 2010 at 02:23 - 221

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

But do you really trust A.Net to give Mirror of Ice a new mechanic that is actually usable but not overpowered? After their 5 year history of skill balances, I certainly don't. Ideally Smiter's Boon should have also been redesigned. But just like Mirror of Ice, the chances of A.Net redesigning it into something actually interesting that isn't OP isn't very good. I'd rather have it Smiter's Booned and not be a problem then left alone, or reworked into a whole different problem.

The irony is that the Smiter's Boon nerf was intended to be a pre-mat stopgap measure, and it was supposed to be redesigned in the future.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

18 Nov 2010 at 07:15 - 222

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radovan

RIP Echarge (QQ)

Just use that Tactics shout that gives you 4 adrenaline when you are in range of four enemies.