Update - Thursday, November 18, 2010 (updated)
AngelWJedi
so this update aloud my ranger thing to be updated and i was able to grab the next quest in the line. glad thats fixed. xD course i was in the middle of killing of the dudes when the update happened. >< my timing sucks.
Horace Slughorn
I'm still not able to update my Keiran quests, as Gwen keeps repeating her dialogue. This is the 3rd bug "fix" ive downloaded and the problem is still not corrected.
edit: yay its working! she still loops her dialogue, but the items are appearing. thank you for the bug fix <3
edit: yay its working! she still loops her dialogue, but the items are appearing. thank you for the bug fix <3
Xiaquin
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Originally Posted by drkn
Even rushing into a mob isn't deadly as long as you kite rangers and use your skills properly. I've never played a ranger besides this year's CB, but that tab is just too powerful to die with.
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Originally Posted by razor39999
I know I do overestimate, but it's as drkn said - even if you pull too many most of the time you can just tough it out and snipe them off... So in other words, you have to play really horribly, or intentionally make it harder on yourself to actually die. Or just watch TV at the same time and hold W. Those would be the only ways I can think of to fail these quests.
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chadS
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Originally Posted by Xiaquin
These are words of players who cannot perceive that people aren't at the same skill level. It's not easy for everyone to just pick up and kill everything with a brand new bar of made-up skills, not to mention coming down from parties of 6-8. In order to use a build, I don't care how strong, you have to practice and get experience using it.
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Xiaquin
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Originally Posted by chadS
Lol... read the skills > easy. Enough said.
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Moving on.
I really liked these quests. While there were some hiccups (my sympathies to those still dealing with them), I felt they were nicely designed and fun. I hope Keiran gets under her skin some more.
shoyon456
I hope you teenage girls are having fun dressing up your characters with wedding costumes while an extremely late SKILL update is moved back even further. GJ on making this game entirely about playing dress up and doing all content easily, instead of being about skill usage.
drkn
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| These are words of players who cannot perceive that people aren't at the same skill level. It's not easy for everyone to just pick up and kill everything with a brand new bar of made-up skills, not to mention coming down from parties of 6-8. In order to use a build, I don't care how strong, you have to practice and get experience using it. |
I agree that someone who just started playing may be lost there, but come on - in order to play as Keiran, you have to finish Prophecies/EotN and finish the entire WiK questline. You're ought to have some general game experience by that time, aka kill squishies first, read skills descriptions, try synergizing with the sin, don't stand like an idiot when you get hit, spam healing. If someone can't read the skills and figure out how to use them, i wonder how he managed to get there in the first place.
Adul
Well to be honest when I first completed the quest I didn't care much about learning all of Keiran's skills and what they do. Instead, I just sniped whoever the assassin was calling and pretty much just spammed all other attack skills. I used the healing skill whenever my health or that of the assassin was low.
Despite all of this, I didn't really have a problem with any of the quests, although I can see how they could pose a challenge to new players. Kiting usually helps.
Despite all of this, I didn't really have a problem with any of the quests, although I can see how they could pose a challenge to new players. Kiting usually helps.
Rushin Roulette
OK, I really have no idea what everyones problem is in NM with Thackeray's completely overpowered builds is...
I personally do not like playing Ranger at all and as drkn says... read the skill descriptions, look at what Miku marks and unleash skill 1 on it while keeping the rest of them occupied with interrupts and conditions.
Well, heres how to do the second quest with a little extra on the way;
1. Zone in and mark your first target
2. run around a bit and observe Mikus great marking capabilities;
3. Unleash your arrows on your primary targets group taking out the Monks first and leaving the big half eaten chicken for last (Dont be afraid to run at the start to stay alive). This leaves you with one decaying turkey remains to take care of. Make sure to watch for WHEN Miku marks a target (see the purple Hex Icon on Rotscales Health bar and use skill 1;
4. TRY to interrupt Rotwings skills if you can by spaming skill 3 on recharge, hes going to be concentrating on Miku mainly, so you shouldnt have to worry about too much damage to yoruself;
5. Oops, Rotwing fell over and lost his Bow (Im still wondering why a Necro Not-quite-boss has a Bow instead of a Necro green... but hey its an imaginary pixel chicken, what do you expect... realism?)
6. Ermmm... wasnt there something else to do? Oh yea... Miku was rambling on about killing someone or another... found him;
7. Damn... this boss is sooo hard after Rotscale... I dont know how long it will be until I can kill... oops, hes already dead;
I personally do not like playing Ranger at all and as drkn says... read the skill descriptions, look at what Miku marks and unleash skill 1 on it while keeping the rest of them occupied with interrupts and conditions.
Well, heres how to do the second quest with a little extra on the way;
1. Zone in and mark your first target
2. run around a bit and observe Mikus great marking capabilities;
3. Unleash your arrows on your primary targets group taking out the Monks first and leaving the big half eaten chicken for last (Dont be afraid to run at the start to stay alive). This leaves you with one decaying turkey remains to take care of. Make sure to watch for WHEN Miku marks a target (see the purple Hex Icon on Rotscales Health bar and use skill 1;
4. TRY to interrupt Rotwings skills if you can by spaming skill 3 on recharge, hes going to be concentrating on Miku mainly, so you shouldnt have to worry about too much damage to yoruself;
5. Oops, Rotwing fell over and lost his Bow (Im still wondering why a Necro Not-quite-boss has a Bow instead of a Necro green... but hey its an imaginary pixel chicken, what do you expect... realism?)
6. Ermmm... wasnt there something else to do? Oh yea... Miku was rambling on about killing someone or another... found him;
7. Damn... this boss is sooo hard after Rotscale... I dont know how long it will be until I can kill... oops, hes already dead;
Meridon
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Originally Posted by Xiaquin
These are words of players who cannot perceive that people aren't at the same skill level. It's not easy for everyone to just pick up and kill everything with a brand new bar of made-up skills, not to mention coming down from parties of 6-8. In order to use a build, I don't care how strong, you have to practice and get experience using it.
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First attempt ever to do this quest, finished in Hard Mode. No practice needed, just common sense.
Stop being bad.
Shadowspawn X
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Originally Posted by shoyon456
I hope you teenage girls are having fun dressing up your characters with wedding costumes while an extremely late SKILL update is moved back even further. GJ on making this game entirely about playing dress up and doing all content easily, instead of being about skill usage.
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Barbie dress up, watered down content for effortless rewards, and a soap opera love story quest chain that goes on over a year is definitely not the GW I knew and loved. Stumme needs to get this ship on the right track and get back to the brutally challenging game that sold millions of copies and created the fan base which demanded the skillful play that made this game famous.
chadS
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Originally Posted by Xiaquin
Your baffling misuse of inequalities aside, cognitive ability is not derived by reading freaking skill descriptions.
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Xiaquin
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Originally Posted by Meridon
No practice needed, just common sense.
Stop being bad. |
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I'm thrilled the response is "stop sucking". However did we get along without such sound advice from our wonderful and helpful community?
RedDog91
On the bright side, all the little rangers of Ascalon are getting free max green bows becuz I just unload my stock of rotwing bows there after repeating over and over
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X
Stumme needs to get this ship on the right track and get back to the brutally challenging game that sold millions of copies and created the fan base which demanded the skillful play that made this game famous.
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/12chars
Killed u man
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Wut?
/12chars |
And as I recall, GW prophecies day was alot more fun, and a higher quality game overal. Wether or not the quality of the game, and the challenge are related, I'm not going to make claims on that, but you can't ignore the fact that as the game become easier and easier over the past years, the communities, both pve and pvp, have become more stupid, ignorant and even unwilling to learn to improve. Lazyness feeds lazyness, so to speak.
Wish Swiftdeath
That's just nostalgia, we hadn't played the game for as long and weren't as good back then as we are now. Looking back on it I can't believe that I beat the game running the terrible bars that I did back then...
SpyderArachnid
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Originally Posted by shoyon456
I hope you teenage girls are having fun dressing up your characters with wedding costumes while an extremely late SKILL update is moved back even further. GJ on making this game entirely about playing dress up and doing all content easily, instead of being about skill usage.
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I don't see this game at all about being about dress-up. If you think this game revolves around nothing but dressing up in costumes, then you have no idea what game this even is. And doing content easily? The game has been easy for several years now. This new content doesn't make anything anymore easier than it already was.
The game was never about skill usage. Everyone used the current Meta and only that for the longest time. It was always "Only this build works" so everyone would always use it. There is no skill in using some cookie cutter build that is posted on wiki. And those "skill updates" that were always coming, was just making class after class overpowered and breaking alot of skills.
So I'm glad there was no skill update that overpowered some class and broke skills. It happens every skill update. I'm glad we are getting new content. Otherwise, we'd still be doing the same boring things over and over again. If you don't like it, oh well. Don't do it. That simple. Don't come crying about it and insulting the entire player base cause you don't approve of new content.
Necromas
Rotscale has always been a pushover if you have interrupts, the thing that makes him hard is the dragons around him and how the bridge funnels disorganized parties right into AoE, but the dragons are easy enough to kill with keiran just using hit and run tactics and his overpowered healing skill.
-Makai-
*swims through costume complaints and quest queries*
So how exactly is BLA easier now? Less enemies? Skill changes? Alesia staying alive for more than two seconds?
So how exactly is BLA easier now? Less enemies? Skill changes? Alesia staying alive for more than two seconds?
SpyderArachnid
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Originally Posted by -Makai-
*swims through costume complaints and quest queries*
So how exactly is BLA easier now? Less enemies? Skill changes? Alesia not dying every two seconds? |
Might of just been the group I was in, but I was on my Paragon. By far the worst of the characters I have taken through, and we cleared it easily. So it seems to have been toned down a bit from what it was. I still do loathe Temple of the Intolerable though. I mean, respawns? There is no other players in my explorable area, why are mobs respawning? Grrr.
Morphy
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
The game pre-Factions in fact was very challenging. I remember Glint, THK and the Ring of Fire island being redicilously hard. As a matter of fact, people on guru had to form special teams and strategies for missions which can now be steamrolled in HM with heroes.
And as I recall, GW prophecies day was alot more fun, and a higher quality game overal. Wether or not the quality of the game, and the challenge are related, I'm not going to make claims on that, but you can't ignore the fact that as the game become easier and easier over the past years, the communities, both pve and pvp, have become more stupid, ignorant and even unwilling to learn to improve. Lazyness feeds lazyness, so to speak. |
THK took me longer because my computer had heating problems (don't ask) and crashed at random but wasn't conceptually challenging. The only part that came close to being not completely brainless was where you had to defend the castle, but this was easily simplified by camping the King's location like a bitch.
The Ring of Fire mission was kind of annoying because of the Mursaat Towers. Nothing a bit of DPS from a minion master or simply a warrior training the seal couldn't fix. Ironically, the backdoor strategy was harder than the "break the frontdoor like a madman" option.
The mission after that wasn't very hard either, pretty linear and stuff, with the ether seal room being the hardest part because you actually had to retreat evety once in a while.
As for the lich mission, not hard at all, just veeeeeery tedious as luring multiple groups at the same time was very dangerous.
Overall, no. PvE was as loleasy in Prophecies as it is now. I don't know where people get the idea it was ever hard but if you don't believe me, try playing the missions with Proph only skills, only taking henchmen as your party members.
Killed u man
I don't think you played during the very start then...
Interrupting Glint WAS in fact how teams used to beat him, however, back in the day, interrupts were alot harder to come by, because you usually had to dedicate whole bars just to do enough damage for the rest of the mission.
In the ring of fire islands, there usually wasn't that many corpses, and this was before Jagged and AoTl. Albeit, no minion cap was pretty redonculous, but you can't make minions if there aren't any corpses.
These were days when prot spirit and bonds were the only form of defence, and when Lingering curse, Rend and so much enchantremoval dominated PvE. (LC stripped all enchantments back then)
Just saying that a harder game breeds better players, is all...
Interrupting Glint WAS in fact how teams used to beat him, however, back in the day, interrupts were alot harder to come by, because you usually had to dedicate whole bars just to do enough damage for the rest of the mission.
In the ring of fire islands, there usually wasn't that many corpses, and this was before Jagged and AoTl. Albeit, no minion cap was pretty redonculous, but you can't make minions if there aren't any corpses.
These were days when prot spirit and bonds were the only form of defence, and when Lingering curse, Rend and so much enchantremoval dominated PvE. (LC stripped all enchantments back then)
Just saying that a harder game breeds better players, is all...
Skyy High
Putting Cry of Frustration, Savage Shot, and/or Savage Slash on someone's bar was really that taxing to your DPS? Really? Bullshit. Note that we also had Inspired Hex in Prophecies to deal with Glint's special hexes, and Wild Blow for her stance. All the pieces were there, it was just that people didn't always put them together, and so the mission ended up being way harder than it needed to.
And, that basically sums it up. Oldschool Prophecies was only ever hard because people still PUG-ed a lot, and there was inevitably someone who didn't know what they were doing or was running a joke of a build and aggroing the entire map. Even the people who were "good" still sucked, compared to what we are now; I know the builds that I have saved from years ago are cringe-inducingly horrible, but I also know they are better than a lot of builds I saw back then.
As for "better quality"...take off the rose-tinted glasses and think really hard about that. Go compare the lava in EotN to the lava in the Ring of Fire. Compare the mob compositions and diversity throughout all of NF or EotN to that of Prophecies. How many fricking spiders, scarabs, and devourers did we fight throughout the game? How many came in groups comprised of one or two professions? How many enemies only had 2, 3, maybe 4 skills?
Nostalgia is a powerful force.
(Yes, I played from the very start. Not beta, but close enough.)
And, that basically sums it up. Oldschool Prophecies was only ever hard because people still PUG-ed a lot, and there was inevitably someone who didn't know what they were doing or was running a joke of a build and aggroing the entire map. Even the people who were "good" still sucked, compared to what we are now; I know the builds that I have saved from years ago are cringe-inducingly horrible, but I also know they are better than a lot of builds I saw back then.
As for "better quality"...take off the rose-tinted glasses and think really hard about that. Go compare the lava in EotN to the lava in the Ring of Fire. Compare the mob compositions and diversity throughout all of NF or EotN to that of Prophecies. How many fricking spiders, scarabs, and devourers did we fight throughout the game? How many came in groups comprised of one or two professions? How many enemies only had 2, 3, maybe 4 skills?
Nostalgia is a powerful force.
(Yes, I played from the very start. Not beta, but close enough.)
Shadowspawn X
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Nostalgia is a powerful force.
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Just look at the threads of people complaining about the difficulty of the Hearts of the North quests. Pulling with an insanely OP character is so hard for folks they are seriously up in arms about it. Because they can't remember a time when they had to do it as second nature just to get from point A to point B. There was a time when just walking outside of an outpost was actually very perilous. My point is that its not their fault at all. I blame the developers for creating an environment over the last three years where there is a sense of entitlement amongst some players that content has to be waltzed through on the 1st time with a great big pot of gold at the end.
Halfthought
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Putting Cry of Frustration, Savage Shot, and/or Savage Slash on someone's bar was really that taxing to your DPS? Really? Bullshit. Note that we also had Inspired Hex in Prophecies to deal with Glint's special hexes, and Wild Blow for her stance. All the pieces were there, it was just that people didn't always put them together, and so the mission ended up being way harder than it needed to.
And, that basically sums it up. Oldschool Prophecies was only ever hard because people still PUG-ed a lot, and there was inevitably someone who didn't know what they were doing or was running a joke of a build and aggroing the entire map. Even the people who were "good" still sucked, compared to what we are now; I know the builds that I have saved from years ago are cringe-inducingly horrible, but I also know they are better than a lot of builds I saw back then. As for "better quality"...take off the rose-tinted glasses and think really hard about that. Go compare the lava in EotN to the lava in the Ring of Fire. Compare the mob compositions and diversity throughout all of NF or EotN to that of Prophecies. How many fricking spiders, scarabs, and devourers did we fight throughout the game? How many came in groups comprised of one or two professions? How many enemies only had 2, 3, maybe 4 skills? Nostalgia is a powerful force. (Yes, I played from the very start. Not beta, but close enough.) |
Coming back I'm shocked by how easy everything is. Load up discordway, switch to hardmode, take PI and some PvE skills, and its literally easier then most normal areas three years ago.
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by Halfthought
Yeah, coming back from a three year break, no, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Remember DoA when it was first released, remember Hardmode when it was first released? Your right this game was never truly "challenging", but it was difficulty enough to be demanding and fun from its difficulty factor.
Coming back I'm shocked by how easy everything is. Load up discordway, switch to hardmode, take PI and some PvE skills, and its literally easier then most normal areas three years ago. |
Halfthought
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Please keep the original context in mind when posting. The original context, in this case, was the claim that the original game, specifically pre-Factions GW, was more challenging than the game is now. I don't think anyone is going to argue that PvE skills and consumables didn't make the game easier.
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Sakura Az
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Originally Posted by -Makai-
*swims through costume complaints and quest queries*
So how exactly is BLA easier now? Less enemies? Skill changes? Alesia staying alive for more than two seconds? |
i only did BLA once before the update.. from what i remember, there is less enemies now.. it feels like a wave or 2 was removed.
Deviant Angel
I decided to do BLA on another character earlier...
I spent the entire mission pinging the nearest target and pressing 1234567 in no particular order. I found that Thalkora was working her buns off a couple of times, but that was to be expected since she was our only monk and we weren't really caring too much about where we were standing. (standing in AoE with spectral agony is bad? hehe) Judging by the grumbling I heard on Skype when we killed the last mob, it's probably safe to assume that I wasn't the only person left unimpressed by the new and improved BLA.
I said it the other day and I'll say it again, please stop dumbing down my game because some people refuse to learn how to play.
I know some of you may find it ironic that I'm accusing others of being bad players after admitting that I was pressing random numbers and standing in AoE, but I was doing that to prove a point. You can win without even knowing how to play the game! It's pathetic that some people have gotten that far into the game and still can't figure out that skillbars and attributes aren't set in stone, some targets should probably die before others, and moving out of the AoE is usually a good idea when it starts to hurt. I would have failed miserably if I didn't know how to do any of that before they adjusted the difficulty. There are even a ton of NPCs standing around to help...
The same people that complained about the difficulty of BLA are probably in the other thread complaining about the new solo quests. A rez shrine guys? Seriously? What's wrong with reading the skill descriptions and watching your aggro bubble? One of the skills is a freaking insta-kill and the healing skill is insanely overpowered!
*takes a deep breath*
I spent the entire mission pinging the nearest target and pressing 1234567 in no particular order. I found that Thalkora was working her buns off a couple of times, but that was to be expected since she was our only monk and we weren't really caring too much about where we were standing. (standing in AoE with spectral agony is bad? hehe) Judging by the grumbling I heard on Skype when we killed the last mob, it's probably safe to assume that I wasn't the only person left unimpressed by the new and improved BLA.
I said it the other day and I'll say it again, please stop dumbing down my game because some people refuse to learn how to play.
I know some of you may find it ironic that I'm accusing others of being bad players after admitting that I was pressing random numbers and standing in AoE, but I was doing that to prove a point. You can win without even knowing how to play the game! It's pathetic that some people have gotten that far into the game and still can't figure out that skillbars and attributes aren't set in stone, some targets should probably die before others, and moving out of the AoE is usually a good idea when it starts to hurt. I would have failed miserably if I didn't know how to do any of that before they adjusted the difficulty. There are even a ton of NPCs standing around to help...
The same people that complained about the difficulty of BLA are probably in the other thread complaining about the new solo quests. A rez shrine guys? Seriously? What's wrong with reading the skill descriptions and watching your aggro bubble? One of the skills is a freaking insta-kill and the healing skill is insanely overpowered!
*takes a deep breath*
Milennin
Haven't done the Battle for Lion's Arch after the update, just been reading this thread, but seems they've been doing it wrong.
I think just changing henchmen's levels to 20 and with updated skill bars for the quest would've been enough to change the quest from insane to hard. At least would've made it somewhat fair.
I think just changing henchmen's levels to 20 and with updated skill bars for the quest would've been enough to change the quest from insane to hard. At least would've made it somewhat fair.
Icecream
BLA is to easy right now, I agree with Deviant to the fullest, ignorant people must l2p
Xiaquin
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Originally Posted by Deviant Angel
I said it the other day and I'll say it again, please stop dumbing down my game because some people refuse to learn how to play.
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Skyy High
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Originally Posted by Halfthought
Well it was, because the metagame was less developed. I'd agree that the intrinsic design of the game probably became harder, but you can't discount developments like refined builds, people generally becoming better, and heroes from the mix. All things considered the game was a more challenging experience in proph, five years down the road. Which is going to be disappointing to most people, whom generally would expect the experience of new content to get harder, not easier. Regardless of the tuning of the design, the point is that the experience is much easier.
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Carboplatin
So I started another toon thru the WiK/Gwen+Thackery story and they added the quest "A Good Deed"
In that quest you end up fighting a bunch of smites, wrathful spirits and coldfires, except this happens in Varajar Falls. Anyone else try this quest? see any ectos drop?
In that quest you end up fighting a bunch of smites, wrathful spirits and coldfires, except this happens in Varajar Falls. Anyone else try this quest? see any ectos drop?
FoxBat
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Originally Posted by Carboplatin
So I started another toon thru the WiK/Gwen+Thackery story and they added the quest "A Good Deed"
In that quest you end up fighting a bunch of smites, wrathful spirits and coldfires, except this happens in Varajar Falls. Anyone else try this quest? see any ectos drop? |
RIGHTKaane
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Originally Posted by Carboplatin
So I started another toon thru the WiK/Gwen+Thackery story and they added the quest "A Good Deed"
In that quest you end up fighting a bunch of smites, wrathful spirits and coldfires, except this happens in Varajar Falls. Anyone else try this quest? see any ectos drop? |
dancing gnome
Dear Arenanet,
I have only male toons and I almost purchased your wedding costume pack. Why do you want me to pay extra (compared with previous costume packs) for what is essentially one tuxedo? Adding a scarf does not make it a separate costume, neither does making one dye able. I don't mind if you create 2 costumes for the male and 3 for the female because one of the female ones was a tux (I think you should create something nice as a third item for the male if this is the case though but I'm not going to boycott you over it) but I do mind if you charge me extra because people with female characters get a tux in addition to their two unique dresses (compared to the two identical suits and third almost identical suit).
I also think these are the worst costumes you've ever made, especially for the male. Honestly I'd prefer a janitorial outfit to this, it's so damn plain looking it hurts not to mention it breaks immersion in a fantasy game. You mentioned wanting to design more festival hats that are usable beyond the 12 hours after the festival, please apply this to the costume packs in future. If you are going to charge me $13 for a costume pack (I know people who paid less for the game than that) at least make it something I might consider wearing while playing.
On a final note, (I will touch on this in more detail later one) I loved the Thackeray content. The balance of the BMP style builds and content just reminds me how poorly nerfed half the classes in PvE are. I absolutely loved playing through it and enjoyed it more than most content recently. I also appreciate the attempt to make Thackeray cooler than Kormir (the holy cow has taught us all a lesson). It's super cool that you let us take out Rotscale with Thackeray, I think this was an awesome way to make his character a little bit more legendary than most in GW. Please keep this kind of game design coming. Good work guys.
I have only male toons and I almost purchased your wedding costume pack. Why do you want me to pay extra (compared with previous costume packs) for what is essentially one tuxedo? Adding a scarf does not make it a separate costume, neither does making one dye able. I don't mind if you create 2 costumes for the male and 3 for the female because one of the female ones was a tux (I think you should create something nice as a third item for the male if this is the case though but I'm not going to boycott you over it) but I do mind if you charge me extra because people with female characters get a tux in addition to their two unique dresses (compared to the two identical suits and third almost identical suit).
I also think these are the worst costumes you've ever made, especially for the male. Honestly I'd prefer a janitorial outfit to this, it's so damn plain looking it hurts not to mention it breaks immersion in a fantasy game. You mentioned wanting to design more festival hats that are usable beyond the 12 hours after the festival, please apply this to the costume packs in future. If you are going to charge me $13 for a costume pack (I know people who paid less for the game than that) at least make it something I might consider wearing while playing.
On a final note, (I will touch on this in more detail later one) I loved the Thackeray content. The balance of the BMP style builds and content just reminds me how poorly nerfed half the classes in PvE are. I absolutely loved playing through it and enjoyed it more than most content recently. I also appreciate the attempt to make Thackeray cooler than Kormir (the holy cow has taught us all a lesson). It's super cool that you let us take out Rotscale with Thackeray, I think this was an awesome way to make his character a little bit more legendary than most in GW. Please keep this kind of game design coming. Good work guys.
cosyfiep
I finished bla on my 2nd rit....with only the henchies dying once or twice (and dumbo ducky--yes you should move out of the aoe really)...otherwise it was a cake walk...only had to back up the stairs 2ce and for the most part sos and minions did most of the killing (with a few meteor showers from suzi --aka sousuke)......yep totally doable with h/h now and no consumables either.....all they need to have done was to make the henchies level 20 and infused, would have solved the problem most peeps had with it right there---but oh well.
Ghost Dog
They said they will look at better hard mode and improved rewards for the later content, so it's not that big of a deal yet.