So, what's next on your priority list for PvE balance?

Eles just need a bandage fix. Make their pve skills better and their fine, no rework necessary at all. Elemental lord can boost attributes by 2, intensity can give armor penetration/reduction or some crap to elementalist spells.
Ezpz.

Rangers actually matter, traps are impractical for the normal game, super niche.
Ranger spirits are meh. Who cares if ritualist can use them better, ritualists have a primary mechanic specifically for spirits so no point in complaining about that. Regardless ranger spirits themselves are just lack luster, also niche. For general purpose stuff, the ranger just falls short.

My assassin still wants his 10 recharge...or less, shadowsteps. Would love to see those Peacekeeper enforcers spamming beguiling haze every 15 seconds. That would be rage worthy.

Actually many, myself included, believe they made the Dervish both effective and fun to play. Stop acting so offended because you didn't get your Ranger update.

Good, then you'll agree that Rangers have a niche and don't need an immediate update like Dervishes do. Thanks for validating my point.

No shit Sherlock, you stated as much by saying that Rangers were in a dire situation. Again, you said yourself they are not.

No shit Sherlock. PvE can be conquered by 1-2-3 headrolling. I'm sure you've done it before, so you know exactly what I mean. Balancing around PvE is ridiculous. The Dervish overhaul included PvP and PvE. Do you see any class running around performing a Ranger's role with a bow better than a Ranger? No, you do not.

No shit Sherlock. There's this thing called enchantment stripping even in PvE, you should read up on it. The nice changes to Dervish enchantments make it easy to reapply chants quickly without having to stop attacking. And since you disagree with the change to Mysticism, read up about how enchantment stripping in PvE also made energy management hell for Dervishes pre-update.

The problem isn't that you die, it is that Dervishes were severely less effective frontliner characters while being so squishy and getting a useless +12 hp every so often. There's still an armor gap between Warriors and Dervishes, but now that gap is smaller. You could say the Assassin suffers from the same problem except that by design an Assassin character isn't intended to be a frontliner.

Every person plays their character for their own reasons. If you think the Ranger needs so much help then why even play one? You should probably just stop playing such an ineffective class (your own words) and pick up a new Dervish or even a Warrior. See what I did there? To each there own, Sherlock. Really man, wth is your problem? We get a great update that is very comprehensive and all you can do is whine and insult others?

In response to the OP:

Paragons really need an update (and weren't they supposed to be next on the list anyway?) Nerf imbagon and give them some options for play. I don't want to see a whole 9 month rework of the class, just a skill update, similar to what the mesmers got last may.

Problem with that is...no room.

Fire Attunement
GoLE
Elemental Lord
Intensity
Cover Enchant

Already 5 slots taken...eles need a bar compression update in addition to the above.

1: Rangers

Rangers are versatile, although sub-par at everything. They need the most help, currently.

2)Paragon tweaks

Mostly high b/c it is a relatively easy fix in my eyes.
-Buff chant effects, lower recharge, lower AoE (In the Area).

-Make skill-specific skills (Lyric chants, Aria chants, possible some Anthem chants), IMS skills, and elite skills more widely usable and party effective (While not killing some of the skills that make paragons synergise with each other. paragon-full parties are fun.

3)HM eles

Mostly a problem due to armor-sensitive damage being a joke in HM. Intensity is a start, but doesn't seem to effective for eles (more for ele secondaries) Ideally, Intensity is the skill to tweak to make eles more effective damage wise. Armor penetration would be cool, TBH. Tweaking too many monster-usable skills would be a bad thing.

What also would be nice is if some of the +element attribute skills were changed to simply contribute to damage directly instead. +attribute adds minuscule damage and is generally a waste of a skill.

ER has to die as well, at least for E/Mos. Usually I am opposed to this way of balancing, but a "disable monk skills for 20 seconds" kind of balance is just what the skill needs.

4) Monk

Also a simple fix. better (or even some) energy management through PvE skills. Anet seems to have a double standard in not wanting to give monks good energy management, yet letting ER run around.

Smiting is a different story. I don't personally care if it is buffed or not, but I really wonder why it's higher on Anet's priority than some of these other things.

Really, the energy problem is exaggerated. You only need the first two. Only the first one if you're not using things like Rodgort's Invocation and Meteor Shower. Most mobs will be dead by the time you run out of energy (assuming that eles were made stronger here).

To fix them, make the current Intensity a constant effect instead of a one shot, and add 10-15% armor penetration. Damage problem fixed.

Also, tie it to energy storage so ritualists can't abuse it.

It might be a little bit overpowered then, but elementalists are SUPPOSED to be overpowered damage dealers. Aren't they?



P.S. don't nerf shadow form. No need to do that.

This is along the lines of the Kieran-type ranger, although I haven't gotten to that yet - What about rangers having "marks", that would function like A-Scan with instant activation but an aftercast? These "marks" (possibly only bow/ranged attack-related, to prevent overuse by other classes using different weapons) would provide a benefit whenever doing something to the marked target, such as causing conditions, interrupting, additional damage, etc. Maybe throw in/change some bow attacks to require a marked foe.

Oh, and another funny idea - How about a ranger skill that provides +x to all other weapon attributes besides marksmanship? Even though the "jack of all trades" thing with the ranger never really went well, you could get some fun out of it. :P

Also, what if Intensity was changed to function sorta like A-Scan, but with elementalist spells? Would that be too OP or still underpowered?

Who the hell is acting offended? With your cognitive capacity, i'm not surprised you missed the fact that fun is subjective.
See.
Obviously nothing needs an immediate update. You wanted the update.
Saying ranger damage in pve is terrible =/= saying rangers have no niche to fill. But of course, you'd deliberately misinterpret that. Also, everything that makes rangers amazing in pvp mean next to nothing in PvE.
The dervish overhaul made the retarded mistake of making avatars maintainable in pvp, but since you're a PvEer, you fail to understand how AoB itself would be an issue, let alone some of the other shit. Fact is, just like mesmers, they were buffed to make a temporary fotm shit meta. and in pve, the update didn't matter because dervs were already tons more efficient than what's necessary. Also, in PvE, sins and wars running around with scythes wouldn't affect anyone else, and in PvP, no one did, so aside from dervs whining about being less effective, there was no reason whatsoever to touch that. And of course, you were probably all butthurt about warriors and sins weilding scythes better than dervs, so you just had to bitch about that, even though it didn't affect you.
I've played Derv long before the update, but as I said, and you conveniently left out, even at 70 armor, getting killed takes effort. And being the competent, not retarded individual that i am, i never got killed solely because my enchants got stripped, also, not making one-trick pony builds that are easily and completely screwed over by enchant removal helps too.
Since when is an argument about armor not about survivability?
Every one plays their character for a reason, yes, but when you admit that it took this update to make them fun and effective, and that you only played derv for looks/lore, that's just plain silly, imo. Even as ineffective as rangers are in general pve, I just find everything else boring. And I love how you put words in my mouth by saying I think rangers are ineffective. I think rangers are amazing in pvp, but lacking in damage for pve, but of course, being less than intelligent, you'd think that thinking rangers suck for dealing damage in pve is exactly the same as me thinking they're an ineffective class altogether.

It seems to be an almost unanimous: RANGERS !
(Please address problem immediately, if not sooner )

Quote: " Dervs were the only melees that were forced to frequently stop attacking and moving to take advantage of many of their skills and their primary attribute. "

Wrong! See Assassin ....
Despite Critical being pretty useful, the Sin is still brought down a little too easily, especially compared to Warr, and now the almighty Derv

I never was a fan of melee classes, however, almost all the skill balances at the start focused the casters and melee was somehow forgotten.

Paragon: Disagree with a lot of what has been said. There's no better buffer in the game. Leadership is certainly a little off balance, but they're still push out decent damage & conditions.

I think they should change Assassins to use adrenaline to make them more in line with the rest of the melee classes.

a decent paragon pve balance would be very appreciated

Paragon needs major rework. I really want to see the paragon be able to do some decent damage with the spear and not to play 1 single bar. Also I want to be able to pvp with the paragon (atm I just can't make decent bars). In my opinion there is a lot to change to paragon and should had been done before dervish update.

Eles:
- attunement casting time reduce to 1s (it's enough 1s to pvp too, a decent rupter will rupt it without problems)
- intensity changed: 50..75% armour ignoring damage to nearby targets, no effect if you use non-elementalist skills, ends if u use non-elementalist skills
- one of the useless glyphs changed to make the next 0..2 spells do armour ignoring damage (based on energy storage attributes), no effect if you use non-elementalist skills, ends if u use non-elementalist skills

I personally don't have energy problems with my mo with ua on, i use Selfless Spirit as energy management.

I was in favor of something like this, but necros already have stuff like it, and it might be too similar.

The removal of all of the basic multiplicative damage boosters in the past update indicates, to me, that Anet does not want any of them in the game.

None of the best sin bars use skills that constantly force them to stop attacking, so they have found a way to get by.

I'll admit many sin skills require casting, but many of the skills that do are either meant to be used with other casting skills (and therefore not used by a melee, so not a problem) or used rather infrequently (and therefore not detrimental to dps like derv enchants were). Sins are also quick little buggers that do damage in short amounts of time, so interruptions to their damage aren't nearly as big of a deal. Dervs were slower, had to cast much more often, and were only good for pressure, so they were screwed.

As said before, eles need more damage and less crappy skills/mechanics(again, PBAoE, wards...), wich isn't exactely more AoE.
Also, if Anet could give eles the uber-damage they should do, even in HM, why should i QQ if i can't prot with ER anymore? ER is what eles have to do to be useful now, but i'd be very happy to get rid of it for gain the lacking damage.

Also, i see a lot of people saying:"OMG don't buff any ele's skill apart intensity and ele lord, mob would became insane!"....Well, you know, with last updates, mesmer(and now dervs i guess) became insane, and no one is QQing about it...a general rework would be very appreciated imo(if not needed). There are some interesting options discussed in other threads about how buff players and not so much HM eles.

Except that if what they just did to the Dervish is any indication you can kiss WotA spam goodbye and they won't provide a substitute anything close to its level. No thanks. If they want to do something mindblowing just make Deadly Arts viable and leave Dagger Mastery the hell alone.

I agree with what many others have said Rangers (a core profession!) needed help the most, moreso than Dervish. Even allowing SoH to work on ranged attacks would be an improvement.

Stop thinking. The Assassin has no business gaining adrenaline for his own skills.
Especially if we're talking pve where the kid isn't even supposed to be on the frontlines for an extensive period of time, so what the hell is he doing building adrenaline? Giving him adrenaline just for the sake of "ooh all melee use adrenaline" is silly. Adrenaline would be damaging to the profession with the current chain mechanic that they already have in place. So where is adrenaline going to go? To their utility skills? Which are already bad? Yeah no. We've got a crappy Deadly Arts line, a line that's only purpose is shadow form, and all the other utility but critical agility and 2/3 other skills is trash.
Now we're going to slap on adrenaline to a profession that has a linear attack pattern? Not even funny.

That's not "already 5 slots taken" that's just a bad build.
I said made the skills better so you immediately decided that both EL and Intensity need to be on the same bar? Worse yet you decide you need a cover enchant when intensity lasts 10 seconds when area's with noteworthy enchantment removal will remove more than one enchantment anyways.
If you went FA, Gole, intensity, then you slap on damage skills and go home.
Your example is just overdosing for the sake of doing so. It's not a bar compression issue it's "pick what the hell is important". If Intensity gets buffed or EL, or both, that doesn't mean you need to take both. Hell at the same time that doesn't mean you even need a cover enchantment if intensity remains at a measly 10 seconds.

^Agree with above posters.
Sins do not need adrenaline, they have Critical Strikes for manage their energy...if you're running out of it, you'r doing something wrong.
Also, Zealous dagger tang says "Hi!".

Rangers - In PVE they are just not worth a party slot when compared to just about any other damage class/build.

Ele's - How about we let them damage stuff instead of being a healing class.

Para's - Needs a boost to damage and better utility via party wide buffs.Either that or just change the class name to Imbagon

However I'm fairly sure that on Anets past performances the next OMFGWTFBBQ buffs will be to Rits Dervs and necros.

Like!

Too bad best & easiest solutions usually find no/scarce public support.

Anet instead of fixing stuff, is forced to play politics ...

Depends on how much armor penetration your Intensity would give. Before this update we had "By Ural's Hammer!" available but still even with that + the old intensity stapled to the bar the damage still wasn't quite there. Will the buffed intensity surpass the old BuH + Intensity combined? I doubt it.

As for the cover enchant...you pretty much stated the problem that I've been having with Eles and PvE, which is that I pretty much have to defend my attunement to the death if I don't want to end up with 0 energy and having to sit there regening after every mob. They should either make attunements a skill...or tack attunement functions onto other skills so that its not relied on as much. Also known as bar compression.