So, what's next on your priority list for PvE balance?

I have shared my views. The general overview is found on page one right here. And then there are more views of mine scattered about the other pages. Feel free to read them.

The current PvE play style of rangers, eles, and paras revolves around button smashing. Barrage is a prime example for rangers. Pure beastmasters, physical gimmick rangers, IA^2 rangers, zojun/pb rangers, pene/sunder rangers, and SoS rangers are also button smashers. And these options are the only slightly viable, non-niche options for rangers. In addition to being fairly mindless and spammy, they are bad (or sub par) and not fun. Eles have ER and paras have imba, both of which are extremely spammy and also not fun. All other ele and para builds are not known to me because I don't play those classes and they suck too much to have any widely known builds other than the previously stated ones. However, eles and paras are spammy professions by nature, so I'm sure all their builds are button smashing as well.

The point: all these classes are actually forced to button smash due to their badness. An increase in effectiveness could not make these professions more spammy, only more useful and more fun. And, an exceptional buff could potentially make rangers and paras less spammy, as well, if their skills were made to be more complex, but potent enough to be worthwhile.

The goal is not to make the game easier, it is to make it less boring. Also, it is stupid as shit to say, "MOST CLASSES ARE FUN AND EFFECTIVE, BUT THIS GAME SHOULD BE HARDER SO LET'S JUST KEEP IT HARDER FOR THESE THREE CLASSES DERP." That's ridiculous.

I like the way you think.

Just revert paragon to the way it was at launch.

Now its completely crippled and unusable.

I don't want to see any skill with a recharge over 10 seconds, grrr!

Power creep in Guild Wars isn't actually all that bad since the enemies creep along with the players, though at a slightly lesser rate since their HP, armor, and monster skills generally don't creep as well.

Despite what most ppl would think I wouldn't mind them removing all the pve skills from the game. Would definitely liven things up and make getting my next gwamm fun.

Agree with Del and Ugh.

So... that's my point? If you want to use half of the Ranger's skills you are forced into shitty elite-based or preparation-based energy managements which preclude you from using good ranger skills (i.e. barrage) Thats just bad.

Critical barrage is seriously useless. Seriously. The fact that you even mention it makes me think less of you. Its a joke build. Go ahead and talk about mending warriors in the conversation next, I suppose.

There is this thing called other players. They cast splinter weapon on you (at 16 channeling so its actually good too). Its really awesome how SW is 'target ally'.

SY is easily maintainable with Dark Fury (+FGJ for instant SY on initial aggro). The character with that, guess what, also carries order of pain. Its called synergy between players, its what helps crappy characters perform adequately and good characters become ridiculously overpowered. Considering that ranged characters can't use SoH, the only buff outside of SW/GDW available is Orders, so I'm assuming all decent players are bringing such a character.

If you're using barrage, you shouldn't need to be spamming 10e skills. And Wars need "shitty elite-based energy management" for spamming attack skills that require any amount of energy. It just sort of goes with the territory when you feel like you must spam high energy skills.

1.) It's not useless, it's just not optimal damage. This is Guild Wars that we are talking about, right? Last time I checked, GW isn't hard and most everything in PvE is doable on any class. 2.) No need to be rude to people. Thinking less of someone because they find Splinter barraging acceptable, isn't fair to that person.

On topic: My two cents: Skills are split now. They weren't when Paragons were introduced with Nightfall. Paragons were OP in Pvp but not in PvE. Can we get a skill split that reverts Paragons back to original form for PvE? Would this even be hard to do?

Also, Motivation? I would be willing to wager a few plat that a lot of people in this community would agree with me that it may be the worst Attribute in GW at this time.

Sins? And if SoS, not just ranger, but all spirit spam. DwG and ST seem to qualify as well.

And a ranger clinging to SoS and Barrage needs help.

Compare warrior skills to ranger skills, along with amount of times you can use them due to your faster attack speed. Ranger energy management lets you spam skills about as fast as a warrior without any energy management at all can do, and without the AoE capabilities. There's about a 2-3x power disparity between their skills.

Ideally a ranger should be using other skills when barrage is not optimal. Unfortunately, the energy:usefulness ratio of most of them is laughably bad.

We're arguing about spammability, not the quality of the spamming.

You can't separate them. A spammable skill that is ineffective is just as useless as an effective skill that isn't spammable.

Most of the paragon nerfs weren't THAT bad for PvE. If they were all undone paragons would still be the bottom of the barrel in PvE effectiveness barring imbagons. The reason they felt powerful back then was because you were playing NM, which was really easy anyways, and because Searing Flames owned shit up back then while combining ridiculously well with TOF. The reason they were nerfed was because they had too much defense in PvP when there were lots of paragons in the party, but in PvE that defense is inadequate (higher monster damage) and the party damage output itself would make running them weak.

Tactics would like to have a word with Motivation as to the worst attribute of all time award

And my point? That barrage is a joke no matter weather you run it on a ranger or a monk with frenzy and heal sig. Its not useful, if you want sy get an imbagon, if you want damage roll something else because forcing your team into balancing around a single character to make that character able to spam a skill that is better used on another profession that would be able to spam that skill more independently while also having more synergy in terms of skills and main attribute. I agree though that critical barrage is not good either but i was in my original post giving example of builds that was used and registered that used bow and then told the original target of the quote why bow abusing does not happen on a larger scale. Its because bows are generally useless and thus fills not the same role as an easily abusable weapon with a lot of advantages as the scythe did.

I agree that sins using barrage are terrible, but for the sake of curiosity i preformed some tests. I got actually a few points higher with a critical barrage assasin than my ranger at 16 marksmanship. Granted is that this test only consisted of spamming barrage for 180 seconds and did not account for the utility skills of either profession. And as i said to force your team to build around your build that already occupies a slot for something that could make the party more efficent is not popular. At all. So instead of i don't know maybe a panic mesmer, imbagon, sos ritu (or dwg or defensive spirit set if you already got one), dervish with vow of strength, SS necro or even a minion master (lol not really).

As for team synergy the prime example is Manly Way where both 100 blades, SW and MoP nuker synergizes as one. The problem is that unless you are running a Meta team where every task is strictly routed into all of the players brains synergy is a hard team to achieve because of the nature of players. Players tend to cope with their builds when extraordinary results can be achieved (as in Manly Spike). If it isn't spectacular enough players tend to play quite independently to prevent a lack of focus on each task. Protters, healers and other direct ally supportive casters (that utilizes their supports on their allies and not their foes like for instance a necro usually would) are on the other hand forced to focus on their teamates instead of the foes but usually lack offense support thanks to the splits in attributes. GDW is an exception thanks to it being a title based skill and it does have synergy with barrage. Order necromancers are another exception and saw some use in the early B/P tomb farmers as you mentioned with dark fury along with orders but unless you fill your party up to the brim with barrage rangers he would be more efficient by roling curses and go SS instead.

I will not think less of you Kunder and i will try to avoid to troll further than i realize i already may have done. I do not mean to sound hostile but sometimes my arguments are snappier than intended. I would honestly like to try out rolling the old barrageways for old times sake (and to be able to do at least something as a ranger with fellow rangers) with you if you got spare times and a couple of friends willing to do it for lulz even if it is not optimal it should still be fun (everything is fun when you overdo it )

IGN: Mikael Andersson

EDIT:
hmm i don't know, it felt like it got atleast somewhat more viable as an warrior attribute after the last years tactics buff, but it still got some problem with competing with its bigger brother: Strength

The point is, on ranger, you CAN spam. quality isn't the issue because we already know ranger damage is subpar.

I'm not saying those three professions are the only ones that button smash; I was rejecting that fella's idea that a buff would turn their play into a smashfest by noting that that's already what it is and that their badness actually promotes spamming.

Okay. Was that directed at me, or are you just throwin' that out there? I listed 4 + x builds apart from Barrage and SoS, with x being the number of physical gimmicks, so I don't see how I indicated that I cling to those or that a ranger should cling to those.

A good chunk of the Motivation line is done faster with better recharge in some other professions. Some of those skills used to be really viable. I understand they had to change them because of PvP back in the day. There is no reason now though that they can't be changed back.

While it's true there are many "spammy" builds/professions, I don't know what that proves regarding balance. A damage dealer generally has a straight line to walk.

Yeah, I don't know either. I didn't bring it up; the guy I quoted did. He thought buffing some classes would turn them into button smashers, so I just said that's already what they are.

id really like the paragon to have some other build options that are as viable/strong as imba, specialy for motivation line

ranger pets, reduce base damage abit, but increase attack rate, and a burst cpmbat movement speed, and improved ai if possible. in some ways minions are more intelligent with the mindless attacks, pets run back and forth, and are slow and clunky, realistic dps is way lower than theory because of that

i think nearly all builds are spammy now, non spamy builds your often leaving something on the table in terms of average dps/utility.

ranger spirits being much cheaper/quicker would be good

assassins make vamapric assult something like "you launch two daggers which steal xx... xx health" this counts as a duel attack, half range.

that would make a attack chain possible without daggers... a half range castery/paragony style assassin

monks a buffed smiting line would be good for pve

A skill update towards assassins.


Most assassin's bars in pve and pvp consist of golden fox strike, wild strike, and death blossom, with hardly any variations. Make other attack skills more useful.

People use Golden Fox Strike and Wild Strike in PvE still? Are they even used in PvP? I haven't been paying much attention since the last update to Fox Fangs (PvP).

Well, I'm not exactly sure on PVP as most builds utilizing assassins either had them with a scythe or utilizing some sort of spike build with deadly arts, but fox fangs or wild strike is the general offhand attack.

All I'm saying is that assassins have so many different skills, but most of them don't do much of anything and have nothing on the skills I listed, outside of a few select purposes.

I would agree on Rangers some skills could use buffs Punishing Shot for eg.

I agree on Monks as well as having their own e management in divine spirit could use rework and possibly increasing the divine favour bonus and include smiting.This would not just be usefull for players but hench AI as well.

I find it hard to believe Sins are on anyones priority list for improvement. Sure, the Sin has alot of underused skills and attributes, but doesnt every class? Eles, Rangers, Paragons, and even Smite/Monks could use help before Sins are even considered.

Barrage isnt that useless when combined with SY and EVSoH, if you have a Rt with Splinter and a halfway decent Tank. Only problem is Crit Barrage Sins, and Barrage Rts are just as effective if not better in some ways minus the SY.

GW is so easy, its surprising what counts as effective. There is alot of room inbetween the optimum meta builds and whats effective. Thats why I feel most improved skills should be left on monster skill bars. If we are going to raise the bar on the underpowered professions, the underpowered monsters should get a boost too.

Non-class specific PvE skills were a failed experiment at trying to undo the damage the PvP balance had done to PvE play. Classes were deliberately crippled in PvE for PvP reasons (the ranger, a great class in PvP, was marginalised in build choice or clearly inferior in PvE) due to the lack of a skill split, something PvE players had been begging them to do for years. After they realised PvE skills weren't going to help anything, they finally split them but did the amazing thing and didn't go through and look at all the skills and say "Wow! this skill is terribad in PvE for PvP reasons, let's change it!" Instead they have been doing bandaid fixes every few months, largely ignoring the core of the problems (except in the case of the warrior, ritualist, mesmer and now dervish).

Non-class specific PvE skills would be completely unnecessary if they balanced the classes for PvE properly.

I'd like to see rangers get some significant buffs to pets to work with bow attacks similar to how dervishes work with flash enchantments. Pets can inflict conditions the ranger can't, and ranger bow attacks capitalise on pet inflicted conditions similar to how Keiran and Miku work together so well. To me, that's how pets always should have been. Giving them AoE damage and condition spread for working with their pets would be a lot of fun and fix two big problems with the class if done correctly.

Bless you! Thank you for saying that.

I know what the others are saying about how they like a challenge. But we're not all the same, and some of us get enough of a challenge from life itself, so when we get a chance to play a game...ostensibly to have fun...we just want to have fun; enjoy a little fantasy, and beat up on hapless monsters.

Not everything needs to be challenging, you know...

Nor does a game have to be dumbed down just because a few people want it to be.

What I would like to see as a PvE balance, are the drops.
Killing xxxxx foe's at HM with a hero party getting you almost nothing.
Jees let them drop more various things.... and more often.
I's brought up many times I know... but isn't it a lot of fun that you have to
salvage the ...out of it to keep up the drops in your bags. I know this will
have impact on the value of mats. on the market... but hey.. its all about
keep on busy anyway now the days. And there will be enough rare things left
to trade.

Why not put in sort of consumables even summ stones like drops.. it will open
the eyes of a lot players.. like Wowwwwww.. thats fun See what Ive got.
let them even drop a salvage or ID kit so now and than.
But please make wandering and exploring more fun.

I already can't fit all the drops in my bags while salvaging useful mats when I VQ, and I firmly believe there are enough (read: too much) consumables in the game as it is...

Ive gotten better drops in normal mode compaired to hard :\

i dont like the book thing, i like the idea of it, but if you jump about doing missions. and across different characters, thats like 5 storage slots taken up per character :\. give us a book bag thats automatic, and carries all the books

A dedicated 20-slot bookbag (to allow for possible future expansion from the current 16 books) would've been far better than the weapons/armor bags.

No it doesn't have to be, but as long as GW2 is linking content to accomplishments in GW1 They might as well. A very large majority have already "been there. done that." in this game. So all that's left are titles and whatnot.

Also, it could go a long way for new players that migrate from GW2 to buff their characters equipment.

Even with all the buffs available right now. All you purists can still opt not run said skills. Hell, even Thunderhead Keep was won by a guy running no skills whatsoever.

The equipment from HoM will not give any advantage over other equipment in GW2 so I doubt it will give any signifigant buff to their GW2 character. After 30 points it all titles anyway and titles are to be earned not given. Therefore the current game should present a challenge.

I would love to see a more challenging mode than HM like Elite Mode or something. Level 30-33 mobs and level 36 bosses would be sick along with new gold items like dhuums scythe. I know it will never happen but I can dream.

my main is a ranger. Anet killed one of my favorite pve bar that was built around asuran scan.
("i am the strongest" + asuran scan + both armor piercing bow attacks for 180 dmg + ,energy fed by preparation shot)

in fact, i usually always use prep shot for any builds i play, to spam any maxed pve skills i have.

but yes, rangers need some help in pve, but they are good in pvp

Eventually you reach a point that you don't need books (I never carried many at one time), but you never run out of reasons to bring different gear sets.

My 10-slot is full on my main. For my friend who has a mesmer she could use a second heavy pack. There was also a thread a while back asking for costume storage because equipment packs aren't enough.

Please, don't, don't require me to target the same foe as my pet - that would limit me even more.

Can you explain what PvE "balance" even means? Balance what?

Maybe ANET should give it a boost then. Non GW players who start off with GW2 might be inclined to visit the past then. But that's another discussion. On topic, I still maintain that rangers could be interesting again if they did something along the lines of active trapping and or multiple pet Beast Master. Obviously bow damage is sub par straight up in comparison to casters. So let's use speed and evasion to harrass with traps or send a pack of wolves to nom nom on the enemy. I really do hate relegating my ranger to Balths farming. Which is funny, because all I really do is play by myself. So it's not like the ranger has to sit the bench, but why run suboptimal if you don't have too?

A few ideas of mine for Rangers:

Minor AoE bow attacks.

Volley: Shoot 3 arrows to adjacent foes. Does not remove preparations. No bonus damage. 5 energy 10s cooldown.

Splinter Shot: Shoot an arrow, if it hits a target, it does 30 piercing damage to adjacent foes.

Incendiary Arrows: PvE/PvP split of the skill. 3-5 sec burning for PvE.

Triple Shot (PvE skill): Shoot 3 arrows. 2 arrows hit nearby enemies to your original target. +10 damage per arrow.

Ignite Arrows: Slightly improve the damage.



Beast Mastery.

Melandru's Strike: Lower energy cost to 5e. Do PvE/PvP split if necessary.

Rampage as One: PvP/PvE split and reduce it to 15 energy for PvE.

Never Rampage Alone (PvE skill). Reduce to 10 energy.

Introduce a couple of ranged pets.

Increase base pet movement and speed for PvE by 10-20% due to horrible pet AI.



Wilderness Survival.

For PvE, makes traps 1s cast with no easily interruptable clause. Only 1 trap may be out at a time. Traps are buffed in their damage/duration/etc because of this.

Preparations. They don't necessarily need work if there are a few modest AoE bow attacks. A few could use fine tuning.

Nature Rituals. Make them benefit only your team and increase the buff gained by spirits. Change rituals to suit the team better. A general overhaul.



Expertise.

Allow expertise to cover PvE skill traps such as Black Powder Keg and Weakness Trap and buff those skills appropriately.

Tie certain skills which are underused in general or awkward to Expertise, so Rangers do not need to spend points in Beast Mastery or Wilderness Survival for a few skills. Traps, Rituals, Preparations, and Stances and even a couple of Pet Attacks and Shouts could be tossed into Expertise for the sake of not splitting attributes carelessly.