Hi everyone,
We've got a skill update coming and we just posted the preliminary notes about the next skill balance up on the official wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...views/20110317
Thanks.
Preliminary Skill Update Notes: March 17
St??phane Lo Presti
Dzjudz
Nice to see Shatter Hex/Enchantment are better options on a Domination bar now 
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bhavv
The invoke lightning nerf is PVP only, or PVE + PVP???
If it isnt split, then why does the only offensive elly skill that is still somewhat useful in HM being nerfed for?
If it isnt split, then why does the only offensive elly skill that is still somewhat useful in HM being nerfed for?
wilebill
The Dervish balance changes are PvP only I presume?
Rites
hmmmm....... and still nothing updated on rangers..........
and there goes my EDA barrager
and there goes my EDA barrager
Ixillius
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
The invoke lightning nerf is PVP only, or PVE + PVP???
If it isnt split, then why does the only offensive elly skill that is still somewhat useful in HM being nerfed for? |
Hope we can get some sort of explanation soon.
Braxton619
I don't like the Invoke Lightning nerf at all. It's now finally being used in 7H HM and now you want to put it in the dumps. Congrats ANET.
Signet of Suffering seems terrible now and will be barely used.
I'm glad of Hex/enchant shatter buff for mesmers now.
Attunement skills buff is better now. I like the decreased rec time incase your ele gets stripped. Why not let it recharge to 10 though incase of enchant removal?
Meh Consume Soul seems to be a tad better now. It won't be used in PvE or PvP (unless in places with high minions like certain dungeons). Now enemy monsters can be a pain for MM's and SS's now.
So far pretty disappointing skill update. It's alright.
Signet of Suffering seems terrible now and will be barely used.
I'm glad of Hex/enchant shatter buff for mesmers now.
Attunement skills buff is better now. I like the decreased rec time incase your ele gets stripped. Why not let it recharge to 10 though incase of enchant removal?
Meh Consume Soul seems to be a tad better now. It won't be used in PvE or PvP (unless in places with high minions like certain dungeons). Now enemy monsters can be a pain for MM's and SS's now.
So far pretty disappointing skill update. It's alright.
Kurosaki129
Quote:
| Invoke Lightning: decreased damage to 10...90; decreased recharge to 6 seconds. |
why not just keep the dmg and decrease the recharge
and where's love for Rangers...ugh.
Tzalaran
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ixillius
I'm wondering the same thing...
Hope we can get some sort of explanation soon. |
reasoning:
old invoke: 100 dmg every 9 (8 recharge + 1 cast) sec so 300 dmg in 27 sec
new: 90 dmg every 7 (6 recharge +1 cast) sec so 360 dmg in 28 sec.
little less damage (and due to 25% ap there won't be a significant difference) but able to cast it more often i'd see it as a slight buff. thats just me though...
Kunder
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tzalaran
hmmm i don't see it as much of a nerf...
reasoning: old invoke: 100 dmg every 9 (8 recharge + 1 cast) sec so 300 dmg in 27 sec new: 90 dmg every 7 (6 recharge +1 cast) sec so 360 dmg in 28 sec. little less damage (and due to 25% ap there won't be a significant difference) but able to cast it more often i'd see it as a slight buff. thats just me though... |
Qing Guang
We'll just have to see how the IL nerf(/buff?) goes. If it's less effective overall, looks like my ele'll be playing her RtL air/daggers build forever.
But eh, meh update. Looks like I'll have to wait for another update for paras and eles to become viable in HM with more than one build.
But eh, meh update. Looks like I'll have to wait for another update for paras and eles to become viable in HM with more than one build.
jazilla
The Invoke nerf is totally odd to me. That was the one skill that was decent to run with Intensity in my opinion. Intensity just lost its appeal to me and it wasn't really that appealing to be honest. I didn't buy the merc pack as I have dotted my "i"s and crossed my "t"s, but i can imagine that some people would be put off by this what with being able to play with 7 ele's now as mercs and really, this skill hasn't seen PvE use up until now. I don't keep up on my organized PvP, but if it was a problem there, why wasn't this skill split? Also, I use this in RA and it's not OP there, but I know that RA isn't really considered all that much in terms of buffs/nerfs.
Neith
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tzalaran
hmmm i don't see it as much of a nerf...
reasoning: old invoke: 100 dmg every 9 (8 recharge + 1 cast) sec so 300 dmg in 27 sec new: 90 dmg every 7 (6 recharge +1 cast) sec so 360 dmg in 28 sec. little less damage (and due to 25% ap there won't be a significant difference) but able to cast it more often i'd see it as a slight buff. thats just me though... |
Axel Zinfandel
I think everyone should keep in mind that these updates are clearly reaction to the dervish update. Don't expect much other than that for now
Cool Name
Considering Invoke was used in PvP as a spike skill, the decreased damage isn't a buff in my opinion.
I do like the decreased casting time of attunements though. I've always thought it was a bit long.
I do like the decreased casting time of attunements though. I've always thought it was a bit long.
Bandwagon
I am not surprised about the dervish nerf, being able to both have an IAS and IMS on you near 24/7 with minimal upkeep felt pretty OP.
The necro change looks.....interesting..... I guess they figured barbed signet deserves elite status....
Seeing the ele buff is a good thing though, the attunements were pretty clunky, the invoke number tuning may require access to the new number range in order to judge whether the skill was nerfed or buffed, however more frequent attacks can't be a bad thing, right?
The necro change looks.....interesting..... I guess they figured barbed signet deserves elite status....
Seeing the ele buff is a good thing though, the attunements were pretty clunky, the invoke number tuning may require access to the new number range in order to judge whether the skill was nerfed or buffed, however more frequent attacks can't be a bad thing, right?
Taurean
Having a break from gw now, but i -really miss- some updates for the ranger!! PLEASE! Come up with something creative skillwise!
And not just for the 1st of april.
And not just for the 1st of april.
bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tzalaran
hmmm i don't see it as much of a nerf...
reasoning: old invoke: 100 dmg every 9 (8 recharge + 1 cast) sec so 300 dmg in 27 sec new: 90 dmg every 7 (6 recharge +1 cast) sec so 360 dmg in 28 sec. little less damage (and due to 25% ap there won't be a significant difference) but able to cast it more often i'd see it as a slight buff. thats just me though... |
More damage in one go is better than lower but more frequent damage because its more likely to kill something and less likely to get healed in time.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taurean
Having a break from gw now, but i -really miss- some updates for the ranger!! PLEASE! Come up with something creative skillwise!
And not just for the 1st of april. |
AndroBubbles
The changes here are either very good or just pointless. Signet of suffering will probably see little to no use in competitive play; the players won't sacrifice an elite just to get bleeding. I understand the point of the Invoke change was to reduce spiking potential, but you've really just hurt PvE players more. As a fan of eles pre-HM, I can honestly say that my ele gets almost no use in PvE anymore, and this is just another reason for me not to use her, or any of my ele heroes. Intensity buff did nothing to change that, as it's still crap.
FoxBat
If there's going to be a PvP split then it's specified. Everything else will affect PvE as well.
I like the signet of suffering change in theory. Lets blood still be strong but at the cost of random utility elite.
Derv builds will change but I still see them dominating PvP. There's a good number of enchantment alternatives around, and cheap IAS + IMS still puts them far ahead of wars.
Eles lacking AP don't really have any non-elite skills to spam though. An air ele will have no difficulty hitting it on recharge. The lower recharge will also proc Battle Standard more which you ought to be using for elemental damage anyway.
I like the signet of suffering change in theory. Lets blood still be strong but at the cost of random utility elite.
Derv builds will change but I still see them dominating PvP. There's a good number of enchantment alternatives around, and cheap IAS + IMS still puts them far ahead of wars.
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Originally Posted by Kunder
Characters have more than 1 skill on their skill bar they need to use. By your metric, Flare does about 1050 damage in 27 secs. There is a reason eles who spam flare are laughed at, though.
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lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AndroBubbles
Signet of suffering will probably see little to no use in competitive play; the players won't sacrifice an elite just to get bleeding.
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Taurean
Bhav: Some of us like to mess around with the ranger's skills, not just use the overpowered ways all the time. Do you want them to just cut out all the other skills than Barrage then??
Lord Dagon
i noticed a slight stealth nerf to those trying to go quickly through MQ... no matter what i do i always come back to minions in that place so that one boss with consume soul is essentially going to be a instant minion killer. other then that nothing was changed that i actually use
cantalus
fast response for anet to the derv garbage, though still amazed that Soul Twisting is still unchanged
hmmm not amazed, i'm sure anet can't wait for bbway to make a comback
hmmm not amazed, i'm sure anet can't wait for bbway to make a comback
bhavv
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Originally Posted by Taurean
Bhav: Some of us like to mess around with the ranger's skills, not just use the overpowered ways all the time. Do you want them to just cut out all the other skills than Barrage then??
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I meant that Rangers still have a viable HM build. If invoke gets nerfed, thats ellys doing any kind of damage in HM gone down the drain. The only role left for ellys will be healing or protting, which isnt really what people make that character class for.
Its a sad state in this game where smite monks with arcane echo RoJ do more damage than ellys can.
Gift3d
barbed signet should be doing what signet of suffering is doing, and vice versa.
Oh ok we're just gonna believe you cause you're modsquad and don't have to, ya know, feel obligated to explain your illogical one-liners.
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Originally Posted by lemming
Yes, they will.
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majoho
WOW - Barbed Signet looks really good, in my 7 man setup I made a necro with only hexes and I'm ofc using Barbed signet for that, this looks completely awesome.
I doubt it will go live though it seems overpowered.
Yeah the changes doesn't seem to make much sense, they should change the status and make Barbed elite and the other one normal.
I doubt it will go live though it seems overpowered.
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
barbed signet should be doing what signet of suffering is doing, and vice versa.
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Fay Vert
Nice, but you forgot to fix ranger.
Del
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Originally Posted by bhavv
If your actually taking 28 seconds to kill stuff in PVE, they your doing it wrong.
More damage in one go is better than lower but more frequent damage because its more likely to kill something and less likely to get healed in time. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
You already have Splinter Barrage which is better in HM than most of what Ellys can do other than E/Mo protting.
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Ghull Ka
Ahh, I remember back in 2006 or so. I looked at Shatter Hex, then I looked at Smite Hex. Then back at Shatter Hex. I was confused. "lol, sucks to be a mesmer, i guess?"
Thanks for patching that one up, guys.
;-)
Thanks for patching that one up, guys.
;-)
Rites
splinter barrage is awesome!!!! maybe once per set of mobs .......
seriously, rangers need a lil touch up. heres a simple one:
preparations last 60 seconds
OR
barrage/volley do not remove preps
just one out of those 2 could actually help alot
(seriously other classes are able to AoE conditions quite easily and condition spreading was originally meant for Rangers)
seriously, rangers need a lil touch up. heres a simple one:
preparations last 60 seconds
OR
barrage/volley do not remove preps
just one out of those 2 could actually help alot
(seriously other classes are able to AoE conditions quite easily and condition spreading was originally meant for Rangers)
gooeydark
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Originally Posted by AndroBubbles
Signet of suffering will probably see little to no use in competitive play; the players won't sacrifice an elite just to get bleeding.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
Oh ok we're just gonna believe you cause you're modsquad and don't have to, ya know, feel obligated to explain your illogical one-liners.
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Do you even play competitive GvG? Lemming is far from illogical, and is well-versed and fairly well-known in competitive GvG play. How about you?
As far as feedback for the update:
I feel like Fragility and Strip Enchantment needs to see some changes (for PvP, just so PvE'ers don't get their panties tied up in a knot).
-Fragility: With the recent dervish update making conditions more prominent in GvG, I think Fragility should see a recharge nerf at the very least, perhaps 8 or 10 recharge. Maybe make it 10 energy cost as well, but that may be pushing it.
-Strip Enchantment: I dont think a deep enchantment removal that deals static life stealing damage is very good for the game. If not re-work the skill itself, perhaps scale the life stealing per enchantment removed? At 14 spec Blood Magic, it currently deals 61 life stealing damage regardless if 1 or 2 enchantments are pulled. Dealing 30-31 life steal damage per enchantment removed with a maximum of 2 enchantments removed would be good I think.
jazilla
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Originally Posted by gooeydark
Signet of Suffering will see just as much play time in competitive GvG as Barbed Signet did before. Losing an elite skill utility is only a minor setback to the blood necro bar. Don't underestimate the power of bleeding spread in a condition-heavy meta, especially with new dervish condition pumping machines.
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P.S. I am still scratching my head at the IL nerf. I really don't understand the change and why it isn't split. Were there all of a sudden 8 ele teams clearing dungeons in record time with IL that I am unaware of? Why not add a damage buff to the attunements for spells cast from their line(PvE only)? Add all Elementalist spells(including Energy Storage) to Elemental Attunement.
bhavv
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Originally Posted by Del
Splinter barrage is terrible for the 90% of the time things don't ball to make it worthwhile.
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gooeydark
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Originally Posted by jazilla
they need to get rid of derv condition pumping machines. barrage/volley want their mechanics and role back.
P.S. I am still scratching my head at the IL nerf. I really don't understand the change and why it isn't split. Were there all of a sudden 8 ele teams clearing dungeons in record time with IL that I am unaware of? Why not add a damage buff to the attunements for spells cast from their line(PvE only)? Add all Elementalist spells(including Energy Storage) to Elemental Attunement. |
Invoke Lightning was a powerful spike skill that dealt an incredible amount of damage for only 10 energy, a relatively short recharge, and had a negligible drawback. If this change to Invoke affects PvE greatly, then maybe they should make it split (unless of course there were balance issues with Invoke in PvE as well as PvP).
DiogoSilva
IL seems "equally" good to me. Slightly less damage but more spammable. Less stronger for spiking, yes, which seems like it was their intention. But more damage over time to compensate. I'd say it will keep it's usefulness for pve.
jazilla
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Originally Posted by gooeydark
I think everyone here needs to keep in mind that this skill update was centered more for PvP than PvE.
Invoke Lightning was a powerful spike skill that dealt an incredible amount of damage for only 10 energy, a relatively short recharge, and had a negligible drawback. If this change to Invoke affects PvE greatly, then maybe they should make it split (unless of course there were balance issues with Invoke in PvE as well as PvP). |
you also didn't comment on my Dervish part of the post. They basically took conditions out of Barraging for a reason and just added them to Dervishes. You weren't under the impression that change was made for PvE were you? And for the record, I am talking about a nerf to Barrage that happened so long ago, I don't remember what year it was, but here we are with a class now that does what Barrage used to do. I am talking about PvP btw.
Kurosaki129
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Originally Posted by DiogoSilva
IL seems "equally" good to me. Slightly less damage but more spammable. Less stronger for spiking, yes, which seems like it was their intention. But more damage over time to compensate. I'd say it will keep it's usefulness for pve.
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My impression was Ele Spells are suppose to hit hard, and take on a role of being the "nuker". Apparently, that title doesn't seem to correspond to what i see with how the ele is being changed right now.
if you don't deal high amounts of damage in a moment (especially hard mode), then that is trouble for your supports (aka. healers). What if you're in a situation where there's 3 healers enemies, their healing output is higher than your damage output.
More spammable, less damage ..hrm..i don't know, we'll see how this change in due time..
gooeydark
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Originally Posted by jazilla
That's why I am saying it should be split and my reference to 8 ele SC's is obviously a jab about Shadow Form and you totally missed it. You just completely agreed with what I was saying in a totally argumentative fashion as well as previously telling every PvE player in a previous post that we had our panties in a bunch. Are you done trying to make everyone feel inferior while missing people's points entirely yourself?
you also didn't comment on my Dervish part of the post. They basically took conditions out of Barraging for a reason and just added them to Dervishes. You weren't under the impression that change was made for PvE were you? |
My response to your post was not meant to make you feel inferior. I was merely explaining the Invoke change for PvP.
And yes, I did miss your 8 ele reference thing because I have not done any sort of PvE in years. My HoM score has been relatively high for a long time, even before the HoM calculator was released. ^______________________^
Also, my previous post said "centered more for PvP than PvE", so as not to disregard any elements in PvE that this update may affect.
Now that that is out of the way, lets keep the rest of this thread focused on the update.
Gigashadow
Now that Shatter Hex has been reduced to 10e, consider reducing Hex Eater Vortex to 5e.