Preliminary Skill Update Notes: March 17 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

DiogoSilva

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2011

Girl

E/

19 Mar 2011 at 00:24 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosaki129

So your definition of an Elementalist is that it doesn't do BIG damage with 1 spell but its a profession that does casts 2-3 spells rather than 1 spell to get the BIG damage?

It will be equally good, that's what matters. The new IL might not fit so well into the elementalist's theme, but oh my, if only that was the biggest problem with the profession! But alas, it is not. An alternative could be, what, increase the damage from the current version but make it 2sec cast time? Isn't that what 50% of ele's spells already do, though? Besides, it's the casting time that makes the difference between chain and invoke, imo.

When it comes to damage, the biggest, most monumental problem with the eles is the armor. HM armor is what's broken. Keeping or modifying IL will change nothing, because that's not the source of the problem.

Kurosaki129

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2009

Guild Wars, Earth?

Mo/E

19 Mar 2011 at 00:30 - 122

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

When it comes to damage, the biggest, most monumental problem with the eles is the armor. HM armor is what's broken. Keeping or modifying IL will change nothing, because that's not the source of the problem.

Hence why i laugh when people take Ele as nukers in hard mode

DiogoSilva

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2011

Girl

E/

19 Mar 2011 at 00:35 - 123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosaki129

Hence why i laugh when people take Ele as nukers in hard mode

Yes, when I group with people for the zaishen quests, they sometimes get surprised that I do not have enough nuking skills in my bar. It's because of this that I am usually the one forming/ leading the parties for the zaishens. Or else, I get in a party with 3 eles and 2 rangers... For HM... (It happens every day.)

EDIT: I think with the new attunements, I'll stop taking AoR as a cover enchant. Yes, not many people still do that. But I like being more stable with my build. Even for RA, as you either fight necros that remove all your enchants at once, or it doesn't matters much having any covers then. Especially with the mind blast build, for its extra energy management. Yay, one extra skill slot for me!

Mouse at Large

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Scotland

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

19 Mar 2011 at 00:38 - 124

This has been discussed to death in the ele forum and elsewhere. In HM eles basically.......suck compared to other caster classes.

And Anet still chooses to ignore the best of the well thought out solutions proposed

DiogoSilva

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2011

Girl

E/

19 Mar 2011 at 00:43 - 125

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse at Large

This has been discussed to death in the ele forum and elsewhere. In HM eles basically.......suck compared to other caster classes.

And Anet still chooses to ignore the best of the well thought out solutions proposed

Intensity lolo...
.
.
loool

But at least it seems they are aware that the eles do need something better, even if that didn't work very well with the intensity revamp. I can't wait for the next developer update. I want to see them explain the change to the attunements. Yes, the reason is very clear and predictable, but who knows, maybe they might admit it is the start of a wave of (small, shy) little buffs to ele's skills? Am I being too optimistic?

psycore

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

19 Mar 2011 at 01:11 - 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kityn

If the Consume Soul change is for pvp and pve, I can see why Anet changed it for pve. How it works as now it will instantly kill a summons either minions,summoning stones and asura summons. At least with this change those summons won't instantly die. Sure the damage is AoE now but with the new minion UI panel and with summons showing in the party UI Panel it will be much easier to keep them alive.

yes but it is just ONE summon per 5 seconds, now if you come up against multiple mobs utilising this your minions and spirits and summons are pretty much toast. In HM as mentioned previously that will be ~130 dmg every 2.5 seconds to every single summon in the area.

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

19 Mar 2011 at 02:18 - 127

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycore

yes but it is just ONE summon per 5 seconds, now if you come up against multiple mobs utilising this your minions and spirits and summons are pretty much toast. In HM as mentioned previously that will be ~130 dmg every 2.5 seconds to every single summon in the area.

To put it another way, the speed at which all of the high level fire eles in the game melt unsupported or low level minions? Consume Soul rits now are just as big of a brick wall.

Losing 1 minion at a time was never a problem, you always had another 9 or more to back it up. Spirits were never a big problem since they stayed in back anyways, and summons were just silly toys in the first place. Now your spirits will take damage even when the enemy is targeting something 20 feet away. Armor of Unfeeling will be required for spirits, and everything but the strongest level 20+ minion armies are toast. It doesn't even trigger minion bombing well, if the enemy uses consume soul on the first minion to reach it the HUGE AoE (in the area, go to GToB to see how bit that is) will kill off the other 9 bone minions that aren't even near the caster

That said, a bit of it of its true power depends on whether it turns out to be armor ignoring or armor respecting damage. If its armor respecting, that means it will be hitting for about 225 damage AoE due to the monster's higher level. If not, its just 150ish in HM which is only a mild rape. Most likely its armor ignoring, but Anet themselves seem to get this detail confused themselves at times (see: derv update).

gremlin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

GWAR

Me/Mo

19 Mar 2011 at 05:48 - 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooeydark

1. It's Signet of Suffering, not Signet of Corruption.

2. There is no other midline template as powerful as a blood necro, regardless of whether its free elite utility slot is taken away or not. There is no debate about this whatsoever.

I tried to reinforce this in a previous post, as did Lemming, but I feel like I have to point it out again for most of the other posters here.

This

was

a

PvP

balance

update.

It
is
not
just
a
PVP
update
if
it
also
alters
skills
in
PVE

Seems a strange way to write but has a certain impact.

Not complaining about the update but I am sorry you cannot describe something as being totally red in colour if it has black stripes and you cannot say something is just pvp if it is both.

Bandwagon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2010

D/

19 Mar 2011 at 05:49 - 129

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

That's a load of crap. If skill splits hurt the game then Anet would never have done them, however they found that they needed to do skill splits to keep pve viable for the pve'ers and pvp viable for the pvp'ers.

Perhaps I did not phrase it correctly, but its well documented that adding new skills to the system (and splitting skills for PvP effectively adds another skill into the system) deteriorates the client. Sorry that your too ignorant to at least research your sh!t before writing it off as BS.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

19 Mar 2011 at 08:21 - 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

How is it "clearly" better than searing flames? Burning and spammability on more foes do a lot more for you than 25% AP.

Searing Flames has a lot of drawbacks, including:

1. It's much more widely resisted than Invoke Lightning, e.g. it's completely ineffective against Destroyers. It has its share of monsters vulnerable to it, but there tends to be more monsters that heavily resist it compared to Invoke Lightning (Warriors and Rangers included).

2. It needs to be stacked in a team to be effective. One Elementalist with Searing Flames isn't very powerful.

3. Because it needs to be spammed, SF Eles are more limited when it comes to using skills from the secondary profession. Restoration spells are immediately out, because that would drop SF's damage to very low. Because SF is also more energy intensive, you can't really rely on the Ele to use Prots, too.

4. Finally, Searing Flames is more vulnerable to disruption. Without Fire Attunement, Searing Flames collapses spectacularly. Invoke Lightning suffers as well, but is affected far less. Eating an interrupt hurts Searing Flame's damage and energy much more than Invoke Lightning. And so on and so forth.

A nerf to Invoke Lightning is a definite nerf to this particular niche of hero, sadly. I'd rather it not happen.

Missing HB

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Anna

A/

19 Mar 2011 at 08:53 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

It
is
not
just
a
PVP
update
if
it
also
alters
skills
in
PVE

I think he meant that it will have 0 impact on PvE , thus he doesn't consider this as PvE update

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

19 Mar 2011 at 09:48 - 132

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

It
is
not
just
a
PVP
update
if
it
also
alters
skills
in
PVE

It's a PvP update that happens to not split all of the skills in PvE because no one uses them (besides Invoke, which has derailed this thread for about three pages now).

In English, I believe the word is "collateral."

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

19 Mar 2011 at 09:51 - 133

It looks like they're trying to keep the new Dervish desirable in PvP instead of just returning them to the shunned black sheep they used to be.

Looks reasonable to me.

inscribed

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

19 Mar 2011 at 10:02 - 134

The simple solution is to just forget about getting any damage out of ele's and just run monk spells.

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

19 Mar 2011 at 10:16 - 135

Eles are buffed now tho, their attunements are waaay better as before.
Signet of corruption is good now, happy to see it being an elite version of barbed signet.blood necro still strong even with the loss of an elite
Also good to see some tweaks at dervs, just will it be enough?

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

19 Mar 2011 at 11:01 - 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Eles are buffed now tho, their attunements are waaay better as before.

Yeah, because buffing attunements does a huge amount of good for ele dps, doesn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

The simple solution is to just forget about getting any damage out of ele's and just run monk spells.

Leaving things messed up is a great solution.

X-Plosiv

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

[Pink]

R/

19 Mar 2011 at 11:08 - 137

One day, after I get married, live another 50 years, and then...while laying in hospital bed, my my my grand grand grand son will come and say "Dad, rangers got buffed!".....
meh

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

Belgium

Club of a Thousand Pandas [LOD???]

E/

19 Mar 2011 at 11:54 - 138

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-Plosiv

One day, after I get married, live another 50 years, and then...while laying in hospital bed, my my my grand grand grand son will come and say "Dad, rangers got buffed!".....
meh

Your grand grand grand son will call you dad, huh?

Anyway, all I want is ele's either to be buffed up the ass for PvE, or armor levels to be toned down to 60, for every class, to be able to compete with armor ignoring damage. It's ridiculous that Anet has been ignoring this problem for so long now, and they should really do something about it. Also, make some elites at least worth the status of elite.

Mesmer elite skill: hits adjacent or nearby. Almost all of them
Necro: adjacent or nearby.
MONK (I mean, the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO): RoJ, adjacent.
And all of these are armor ignoring and only one of em causes scatter.

Eles: either does ridiculously low damage AND causes scatter on top of it, or it only hits 1-3 targets. Making invoke deal to all adjacent or even nearby would still make it inferior to VoR, Esurge, Wandering Eye, Signet of Clumsiness, Mistrust, etc. (for the record, mistrust rapes)

Mesmer even has a shitton of normal skills that can easily outdamage ele elites. Wandering eye, Mistrust (ok, occasional skills, but know how to use them and thou shalt rape ass), Sig of Clumsiness, Unnat sig, clumsiness, walster's worry, overload + shatter delusions... Necro: defile enchants and it's counterpart.

I would like to see eles get some love and be able to be used as Nukers once more. Instead of being a backline who keeps others alive or a tank in SCs..

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

19 Mar 2011 at 11:56 - 139

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Yeah, because buffing attunements does a huge amount of good for ele dps, doesn't it?

Leaving things messed up is a great solution.

They recharge faster a lot and their casttime is reduced to 1sec, pretty huge buff on eles in overal then, I didn't talk about dps.
I've sent anet some solution, maybe they will test it, but that's for later(ele update).

For pvp the attunement change is a big diff, believe me...

gremlin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

GWAR

Me/Mo

19 Mar 2011 at 13:11 - 140

I don't think this thread is being derailed at all as has been suggested, the thread is an announcement of forthcoming changes to skills.
The replies have been comments on what people think of the changes.
Sounds on track to me.

I am being petty when I say its a pve and pvp update but that is because for some reason others are dismissive about others comments.
Mostly it is a pvp update for pvp reasons because as usual some players broke pvp again.
Dismissive because first they say its PVP and then say ok look they only changes some skills people in pve don't use.

Consume soul isn't a pvp change and while it may not be used by the players it will certainly be used against them.

At the moment ray of judgement is the big spirit killer and while you can spread out your spirits to avoid it as soon as you use summon spirits a "pve Skill" your vulnerable.
Its no big deal at the moment but now consume soul will do the same thing and since its instant and not gradual damage will be far worse esp in hard mode.

Players are far more likely to have spirits or minions around them than the AI opposition.

Ok its purely a pvp balance that just happens to attempt to kill off the main ritualist build in pve probably because someone has decided too many people are using it.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

19 Mar 2011 at 13:31 - 141

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

They recharge faster a lot and their casttime is reduced to 1sec, pretty huge buff on eles in overal then, I didn't talk about dps.

The huge improvement to attunements in the bigger picture, does little to help eles in pve. Now they can just spam their inefficient skills while worrying less about their attunements getting stripped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

For pvp the attunement change is a big diff, believe me...

No shit, but that has nothing to do with all the PvErs currently bitching about invoke.

Imaginos

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

19 Mar 2011 at 13:44 - 142

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

Perhaps I did not phrase it correctly, but its well documented that adding new skills to the system (and splitting skills for PvP effectively adds another skill into the system) deteriorates the client. Sorry that your too ignorant to at least research your sh!t before writing it off as BS.

I've searched the official wiki now and tried a few terms in google, along with scouring the official website and have been unable to find this info. Please link it as i have never heard of any such thing, nor can I find any info on this.

DiogoSilva

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2011

Girl

E/

19 Mar 2011 at 13:48 - 143

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

The huge improvement to attunements in the bigger picture, does little to help eles in pve. Now they can just spam their inefficient skills while worrying less about their attunements getting stripped.

For a PvP update, that's not bad at all PvE-wise. It will also indirectly help Invoke, as that thing destroyes your energy if you are not enchanted. Wasting a slot for a cover enchant (for those who still do that) won't be that necessary anymore. And the half cast time means less time buffing itself and more damanging the enemy.

Yes, it still won't solve most of their problems. But to repeat, for a pvp update, that's not bad at all for PvE. I hope more PvP updates are like that.

EDIT: And instead of splitting IL, they could very well split other, more useful pve-wise skills. Or even better, buff some useless elites for PvE use, without the need of splitting to not affect the game's performance.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

19 Mar 2011 at 14:03 - 144

Not enough monsters have Consume Soul to justify the whining.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

19 Mar 2011 at 14:55 - 145

PvE'ers need to stop crying wolf over the Invoke nerf. It still has 6 second recharge meaning you'll be able to cast atleast 2 spells in between every Invoke. Obviously one of them will be Chain, and then you can still throw in a utility spell every 6 seconds. (Which is more than the ele will have energy for)

This update will have no effect on PvE eles whatsoever. The people claiming it will need to re-educate themselves with the terms: cast time, aftercast, recharge, energymanagement, DPS and utility.

I'm still all-in for an Ele buff, as I think they're the most "useless" PvE profession atm (aside from ER niche), as in they can't even effectively abuse secondaries. (Again, aside from ER niche)

Rangers and Paragons, while pretty bad have the option to go /D and pump 80-90% of the damage a dervish could pump without dying every second minute. Eles, in that aspect, have nowhere to go, and really have to choose between doing less-than-mediocre damage or brainless-buttonbash-prot.

Out of all the professions, Eles really have the hardest time in PvE, so I can see why people are so upset about this update, but get real. The invoke "nerf" is actually a buff. More DPS and still more than enough room/time for utility.

ogre_jd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canadia

W/

19 Mar 2011 at 14:57 - 146

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Eles are buffed now tho, their attunements are waaay better as before.

No, just slightly less irritating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Mistrust, etc. (for the record, mistrust rapes)

...except, of course, when your H/H immediately run over to your target (even when currently engaged with their own target that's still alive) and kill it before the 2s cast (or 1.25s or whatever Fast Casting'll get it down to) is finished, which happens waaaaaaaaaaaaay too often to me. :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

This update will have no effect on PvE eles whatsoever. The people claiming it will need to re-educate themselves with the terms: cast time, aftercast, recharge, energymanagement, DPS and utility.

Damage Per Second isn't everything. Damage Per Shot is just as important - and even more important when you're going after stuff that needs to die ASAP (enemy Monks, Mesmers, and rezzers).

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

19 Mar 2011 at 15:07 - 147

Seems like many people realy have zero to minimal insight of how the game works, i'll just leave it at that.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

19 Mar 2011 at 15:19 - 148

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Damage Per Second isn't everything. Damage Per Shot is just as important - and even more important when you're going after stuff that needs to die ASAP (enemy Monks, Mesmers, and rezzers).

Since no build, outside of an organized spike, can kill a single target in under a second, DPS is important. Spike damage, as you claim, is obviously important aswell, but only under very specific conditions. Those conditions most likely being the enemy being balled up by a tank, and then killing them as fast as possible before they scatter. (Keystone, etc)

So don't mistake me for having said spike damage isn't important, it is. I merely claimed that the overal DPS from an ele went up. And since you won't kill a single target with 1 skill, that's all that matters.

If invoke was a single-kill-skill, I'dd agree with everyone else here and say they got nerfed. But the reality is you need 2-3 Invokechains (So including chain lightning) before you can kill a target, so they benefit from the overal DPS buff.

Eles in a balanced team, however, will most likely get to use 1 Invoke and chain before all enemies are dead, so in that aspect, eles 'lost' about 10 overal spike-damage. That's a fully true statement, but the problem doesn't lie in losing the 10 damage on Invoke, it lies in the fact that armor ignoring damage severely outdamages armor-respecting damage. In other words, this nerf didn't make eles worse than they already were.

But as Coast and many other people pointed out, Eles need more overal spike damage and a bit more DPS.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

19 Mar 2011 at 15:45 - 149

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Out of all the professions, Eles really have the hardest time in PvE, so I can see why people are so upset about this update, but get real. The invoke "nerf" is actually a buff. More DPS and still more than enough room/time for utility.

Lol? You seriously think having to cast more spells more often gives you more room / time for utility? This kind of statement would have people start thinking that Searing Flames Eles are better than Invoke Eles.

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

19 Mar 2011 at 16:12 - 150

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

In other words, this nerf didn't make eles worse than they already were.

This sums the overall feeling about this update respect eles. Attunements changes were expected like 2+ years ago. Invoke change (buff or nerf is matter of opinion seems) is quite pointless in the discussion about the ele inestistance in most of PvE.

PvP wise, toning down IL for 10 dmg while reducing cooldown wont change really things, but the change to 1 cast/30 recharge of the attunements will, cause ele w/o attunements=no ele(unless using superior ene-management like mind blast,ether prodigy, prism or whatever...which also are all elites).

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

19 Mar 2011 at 16:16 - 151

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Lol? You seriously think having to cast more spells more often gives you more room / time for utility? This kind of statement would have people start thinking that Searing Flames Eles are better than Invoke Eles.

Under spefic conditions, SF IS better than Invoke.

I also never said Invoke eles now have more room for utility, start by reading my post first before jumping to conclusions. But hey, feel free quoting where I said Invoke eles will have more utlity after this update.

I said that even with the shorter recharge, there will still be enough time to cast a utlity spell every 6 seconds, which is more than enough for PvE standards.

I never made any claims as to saying where Invoke lies in the overal PvE balance ratio, as I know Invoke already is shit compared to mesmers, splinter, etc. I merely said that eles did not loose any utlity with this update, as the bar simply does not have room/energy for that much more utility.

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

Belgium

Club of a Thousand Pandas [LOD???]

E/

19 Mar 2011 at 16:25 - 152

Tbh, what I think is the big problem here is that people were expecting Anet to show the eles some love in PvE, but instead they got a mediocre buff/nerf (however you choose to see it) and that's why they are mad.

Only problem with buffing eles up the ass in PvE will be that in HM, ele enemies will be even more dangerous than they already are. That's the big irony of the situation, the profession that sucks the worst in HM is also feared the most in HM, because we don't have ridiculous amounts of armor vs everything. People say "give ES 3% AP in PvE". Or "make IL nearby in PvE", well, I'd like to see you take on a Margonite Anur Su with ~50 ES and 20 Air Magic. 175% Armor penetration (you'll have negative armor, gg) at 130 damage + enraged is gonna be happy fun time. I can't wait to see them hit me for 2k damage.

Anet is probably thinking about it, but they should make a way to make Eles viable again without making every area where 1 ele runs around impossible to VQ.

EDIT: forgot about this, but IL is even more ridiculous now. Same damage, only armor ignoring and 2 sec cast. Eles need some love and fast.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

19 Mar 2011 at 16:28 - 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I said that even with the shorter recharge, there will still be enough time to cast a utlity spell every 6 seconds, which is more than enough for PvE standards.

Let's see your Air Elementalist juggle Chain Lightning, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Shell Shock, Lightning Orb, Aegis and Prot Spirit every 6 seconds. Or Kaolai, MBAS and Spirit Light, for that matter.

PS: Lava Arrows does 69 damage / 3s, which is more than 90 damage / 6s, and therefore Lava Arrows is better than Invoke Lightning.

But this is exactly the same kind of logic that says post-nerf Invoke does more DPS than pre-nerf Invoke ...

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

19 Mar 2011 at 18:30 - 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

EDIT: forgot about this, but IL is even more ridiculous now. Same damage, only armor ignoring and 2 sec cast. Eles need some love and fast.

TBH, the damage is cold...but we still get the idea.
Expecially thinking that
1.this isn't a elite
2. is the 2nd necro skill that everyone get after creating a new char afaik(in prop at least).

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

19 Mar 2011 at 19:14 - 155

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Consume soul isn't a pvp change and while it may not be used by the players it will certainly be used against them.

Yes, it is. Its poor interaction with spirit-based party healing GvG was the only reason it was nerfed.

Objectively speaking, Consume Soul (and Signet of Binding, which got a pretty crippling nerf recently) never should have existed anyway - hard counters like that are absolutely terrible from a game design perspective, but I digress.

gooeydark

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Bohemian Grove [bG]

Mo/

19 Mar 2011 at 23:18 - 156

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Yes, it is. Its poor interaction with spirit-based party healing GvG was the only reason it was nerfed.

Objectively speaking, Consume Soul (and Signet of Binding, which got a pretty crippling nerf recently) never should have existed anyway - hard counters like that are absolutely terrible from a game design perspective, but I digress.

Quoted for emphasis. All of you need to stop making this update seem to have any basis of off PvE balance.

gremlin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

GWAR

Me/Mo

20 Mar 2011 at 01:14 - 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Yes, it is. Its poor interaction with spirit-based party healing GvG was the only reason it was nerfed.

Objectively speaking, Consume Soul (and Signet of Binding, which got a pretty crippling nerf recently) never should have existed anyway - hard counters like that are absolutely terrible from a game design perspective, but I digress.

Oh right I understand, that sounds like a good reason for the alteration.
Guess spirit spammers will have to alter their play style when conditions affect them.
Thanks for that.

As an almost exclusive PVE player its hard to understand the problems of pvp.
I just hope anet have learned enough over the years to make both communities happy and indeed to make both sides of the game interesting enough that more players try both game types.

Not that I have heard much about any pvp parts to gw2.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

20 Mar 2011 at 01:53 - 158

Late to this PvP ele discussion.

Consider it's a strippable 30 recharge energy management that you need (unlike Awaken the blood, which is the only skill close to attunements besides 10recharge 1/4 cast Healer's Boon/UA) not to nuke your energy (Invoke or Freezing Gust without attunements might as well be the only skill on your bar if you use it on recharge) versus something useful like Drain enchantment or Angorodon's Gaze. Keep in mind all elementalist stuff is priced with them in mind. It's not like you can say "screw it, I'm not using it" unless you're running serious energy management like Glowing Ice + Ether Prism + Glyph , Power Drain/Leech sig, or Ether Renewal. Winter's Embrace/Shard Storm/Blurred/Freezing Gust are 10 each; MoI is 15.

Invoke was only spike support when assisted with Shell shock (i.e. a 7-15 energy combo). Spamming it on recharge without cracked armor will net you really sad results.

The Invoke "rebalance" was a DPS buff (by minimal amounts of a MAXIMUM ~2-7DPS per 60 armor target) and a Invoke spike (or spike support) nerf. (see http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...5&postcount=63)

Basically there's no use for air eles in HM PVE besides Intensity + Orb, seeing how the only other skill you can crank out is Chain Lightning with a 3 target cap.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

20 Mar 2011 at 02:31 - 159

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

The Invoke "rebalance" was a DPS buff (by minimal amounts of a MAXIMUM ~2-7DPS per 60 armor target) and a Invoke spike (or spike support) nerf. (see http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...5&postcount=63)

Basically there's no use for air eles in HM PVE besides Intensity + Orb, seeing how the only other skill you can crank out is Chain Lightning with a 3 target cap.

That's the same kind of calculation that proudly declares that Immolate does 79 + 14 * 3 121 = damage / 5s, which is less than Flare's 69 damage / 1.75s, and therefore Immolate is weaker than Flare and three times weaker than Lava Arrows.

I'm not going to point out the problem with this calculation. I've done it enough times already. This proposed change to Invoke Lightning is, for all practical purposes, a nerf to DPS, not a buff.

Missing HB

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Anna

A/

20 Mar 2011 at 09:24 - 160

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Only problem with buffing eles up the ass in PvE will be that in HM, ele enemies will be even more dangerous than they already are. That's the big irony of the situation, the profession that sucks the worst in HM is also feared the most in HM, because we don't have ridiculous amounts of armor vs everything. People say "give ES 3% AP in PvE". Or "make IL nearby in PvE", well, I'd like to see you take on a Margonite Anur Su with ~50 ES and 20 Air Magic. 175% Armor penetration (you'll have negative armor, gg) at 130 damage + enraged is gonna be happy fun time. I can't wait to see them hit me for 2k damage.

I'm not even letting you think of heroes teams there ( where of course you can't split 4 at least...)... I guess i should re-argue on that thread then

About consume soul update , correct me if i'm wrong but is it nerfed only because it kills easily 1 ritualist spirit or ...?