The Best Way to Combine Discord, Spirit, Mes Ways

spray04

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2010

As this seems to be the current meta right now, I wanted to give my opinion on the best way to combine these three team builds because I think I see a lot of problems in people's builds when they put it all together.

Discordway Portion:

1. I believe the Discordway build on PvX has some weaknesses. The first is that Signet of Lost Souls, one of the best skills for Necro heroes, is nowhere to be found. I think all 3 Necro heroes should have this skill in place of the 2 copies of Flesh of My Flesh and the 1 copy of Recovery currently in the PvX build.

I chose these skills to be replaced for a couple of reasons:
-The Resto Necros should NOT have any rezzes on their bars - you never want your healers to spend 4 seconds rezzing and stop healing because then everyone else drops dead
-Recovery is expensive and not useful when there are multiple copies of Mend Body and Soul to remove conditions

Replacing these skills with 3 copies of SoLS only requires moving Putrid Bile from one Necro to another.

2. Combined with shutdown Mesmers, Shadow of Fear may not be that useful, and it may even cause the shutdown hexes to be triggered less. In its place, I have found that having an additional copy of Shambling Horror (which is a 25s recharge) is very useful and maximizes corpse exploitation.

Spiritway Portion:

1. You need to keep PwK, MBaS and Spirit Light on the SoS Rit. Many people are removing these heals from the SoS because they think they have enough heals with the 2 Resto Necros, who are semi-healers. If you've been to the harder areas, you would know you need these third copies.

2. Splinter Weapon should definitely be the optional skill (PvX says it's optional) to be put on him because it is used on minions even if there are no physicals in the party.

Mesway Portion:

1. Rezzes should go on Mesmers - with their fast casting, they can bring party members back most quickly.

2. Many people have Power Drain on one Mesmer and Drain Enchantment on the other - it is much better to have Power Drain on both. Drain Enchantment is not that useful in this combination anyway because the Disenchantment spirit already removes enchantments.

3. Do not use the Wastrels from the old build on the Panic Mesmer - they use up too much energy. There are better skills to be put in like CoF. You'd rather have the Mesmer casting Panic rather than spamming themselves dry with the Wastrels.

With these in mind, you end up with a build like this; your slot should be standard AP caller with 3 skills left for whatever you see fit from your profession.

Xslash

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2008

I believe you underestimate the power of soul reaping. signet of lost souls is unnecessary.

I've found the most expensive spells and put them on my necros because they cannot run out of energy.

Recovery is there so that your heroes don't waste time casting mend body and soul to remove conditions. You want them to be casting offensive spells as often as possible, only healing when needed.



Also, at the rate you kill stuff, Putrid Bile just does not recharge fast enough. I'd put it on all the necros. You should be killing more than 1 enemy every 12 seconds. I'd hope for something alot faster.

Schnellburg

Schnellburg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

America -5 GMT

Me/

I personally drop the minions all together, and drop SoGM for a ST rit. I run a front line, and I haven't really run into any issues doing any VQ's or any Dungeons.

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

Only thing you did wrong was Res Signet on player bar... Panic is also very optional; better elites for much of PvE. Also, if you've got a condition on your player bar, you can take another copy of Putrid Bile.

SoLS is good for the heal, as well as keeping the blue bar up in longer battles. I never run a necro hero bar without it.

Xslash

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by spray04 View Post
SoLS is useful when they have to spam Discord and Heals, especially when two of them are holding PwK and don't get energy from their weapon sets; it is also a moderate self heal.

That is not a strong enough reason to justify Recovery, which costs 15e.

I would never put more than one copy of a hex on my team when they don't stack; very, very low utility.
The AI doesnt cast hexes on someone who has the same hex.

Soul reaping gives like 25 energy every 15 seconds, thats equivalent to more than an extra 6 pips of regen. You cannot run out of energy. You can put Recuperation, Recovery, Life all on one necro and he still will not run out of energy.

Quote: /win thread.

I mean, you now have 7 heroes.

With the HUGE amount of possibilities that you have now, why take 3 slots for a mediocre setup?

P.S:Personally, i never bring more than 2 nec at same time. MM+curses or blood or resto. But no more than 2.
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
SoLS is good for the heal, as well as keeping the blue bar up in longer battles. I never run a necro hero bar without it. The problem is not the energy issue, the problem is the 'longer battles'. Fix that with more damage, less utility, less heals, less whatever, just more damage.

Kill stuff before it kills you.

Xander The Survivor

Xander The Survivor

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2008

DoA

Terra Noise [Zraw]


This is what i run atm, ofc you need Mercenary Heroes.
I have done alot of Vq, HM Dungeons and Mission, I have not found a place wher it dont work.

GrimmNinja

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2009

UK

Society of Souls [Argh]

A/

I prefer keystone mesmer in moist cases just cause gwen rupts like heel, does great dmg and uses like 0 energy, with the exception of symbolic clerity or whatever it is called. I also like to go /mo and add signet of devotion for a small heal boost every now and agin . But for things like balled. Up enemies for example WiK or DoA, micro'd panic>keystone

Cors Seel

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2009

Belgium

OHL

A/E

Heroes don't know how to use Painful Bond. Ancestor's Rage would be better because they do know how to use this skill. It's awesome dmg for 5e when enemies start chasing your backline. Even if your hero doesn't use this skill that much, it's still worth it.

About the Ineptitude bar, i see this bar almost everywhere but i find it's kinda energy intensive. Main reason for this is Clumsiness which he spams like a maniac. I Changed Ineptitude by Shared Burden. I don't know where i read it but i'm gonna quote someone "Shared Burden turns HM mobs into NM mobs"

Panic, Mistrust, CoF, Sharden Burden, Power Drain (x2) and Arcane Conundrum provide massive caster shut down while Enfeebling Blood, Shared Burden, Clumsiness, Signet of Clumsiness and Wandering Eye will still provide crazy physical shutdown. U can add Shadow of Fear as well if u find a spot because Shadow of Fear and Shared Burden stack.


Sometimes these 2 mesmers pwn mobs so hard (and fast) that i feel like healers are getting useless...

Lortext

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/

Painful bond is an AOE hex that nearly doubles spirit damage targeting that foe. Heroes drop it on whoever they want and spirits target whatever they want. I never really have a problem with this but you can always micro it on targets that are the focus of spirits. The energy cost sucks but it can be offset with Spirit Siphon which my Rits never leave home without.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

Recovery was only ever used on old discord because you needed more than just life to reliably power your resto junk, and it had a fast recharge and long duration. It was made well before spiritway was viable, and is completely superfluous now. If you really want a resto spirit, recup or rejuv will actually do something in your party, even if they aren't always present, they don't need to be.

The painful bond issue is twofold:

1) They are hesitent to use it if they aren't hexing 2+ targets

2) Their emanage sucks so they won't have the 15+ energy to cast it. If you have a rit primary with the two spammable resto heals and he ends up using those alot, you aren't going to see much bonding, siphon spirits has its limits for heroes that don't know to reposition themselves.

zan the healer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2010

Mo/

mesway imo doesnt work well with discord it may interrupt the hell out of things but its damage is low.

what i would recommend is change both mesmers to keystone spammers that way when you call a target it will function with discord in nuking a single mob faster (less time for it to get healed)

keystone will also do exactly what panic does, since keystones description says
"Your next 0...5...6 signets INTERRUPT and deal 15...51...60 damage to other foes ADJACENT to your target"

so really you would have 2 aoe interrupters for more shutdowns without down times than mesway provides

Kaida the Heartless

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

N/

The issue is that Panic's range is much higher and that it functions as a hex for Discord. Completely shutting down a group is important when you are running a build that loses power when it's forced to spam heals.

The Panic and Inept Mesmers weaken mobs enough for each Discord spike to finish off foes in one attempt. Any more damage is mostly pointless since you are still spiking targets one at a time.

Besides, it's not like a Panic Mesmer's damage is really that bad.

zan the healer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2010

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless View Post
The issue is that Panic's range is much higher and that it functions as a hex for Discord. Completely shutting down a group is important when you are running a build that loses power when it's forced to spam heals.

The Panic and Inept Mesmers weaken mobs enough for each Discord spike to finish off foes in one attempt. Any more damage is mostly pointless since you are still spiking targets one at a time.

Besides, it's not like a Panic Mesmer's damage is really that bad. the extra hex may be true id probally use panic over keystone in heavy de hex areas

but compared to two keystone heroes mesways dps is sort of lame

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
The Best... Discord... alt+F4 -> uninstall

Seriously, with 7 heroes people ought to be able to do a lot better than Discord...

Life Bringing

Life Bringing

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Fissure of Woe

[LOD]/[GS]/[DL]/[LOD*]

N/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post

Seriously, with 7 heroes people ought to be able to do a lot better than Discord... This. The best way to combine them is simply to not

thedeadlyassassin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

Tualatin OR

N/A

A/W

Interesting build. Got any for Slavers' Exile? I completed the first two, but I wipe at the start of Forgewright. I was able to complete the other dungeons easily though. Only ones I haven't are Slavers' and Catacombs, but I haven't attempted the latter.

EverDawn

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2011

[email protected]

I have followed this thread with big interest. I just rutern from the game after not playing it for two years, just beacuse the 7-hero update and that I want to play trough the story again, and get som HM/Vanq titels for HoM and GW2 rewards.

I wasnnt any good when I left, and now I really don't have any clue

I have my own thread where I postet this for feedback:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/r...t10474493.html

Tha aim of tihs build was to cary two players trough all three campaigns as esaliy as possible, and also be able to get som titels with HM missions clearing and continent vanqusihing. Therefor I try to cover all angels of hex removal, shutdown, enchantment removal, condition removal and such.

After reading this thread I already see some improvments I can make, like moving resses from the N/rit healers and to the Mesmers. I'm also figuring I could ad in a second Rit instead of the third Necro, but don't know what's best.

One thing that I feel lacking from the build in the OP in this thread, is hex removal. I tought hexes where common in HM?

So what more advice should I take? And also, what other builds are there that I should look into thats not a variant of sab/discord/mes/spirt-way? People mention them but I don't undertand what they are And I'm open to buying the mercenery heros if needed.

Swingline

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

W/

Discord is really boring especially after getting gwamm with it. IMHO its the lazy way out of actually being somewhat creative and it requires you to run 4 set skills which doesnt leave room for you to run much.

As for panic I can see why some ppl perfer it over keystone since panic's range is greater than keystone's. I'm actually trying atm to make a 7 hero build that uses keystone and no panic without discord. Want to keep things interesting.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by majoho
View Post
Agree, not sure why people stick to it - I would use Icy Veins over Discord, in general I like spells that trigger on mob death it so nice to see one mob die and then the rest explode as well.

This is my "core" build



I currently play a SoS Rit myself, the two remaining chars can be pretty much whatever you like all that is required is a hex remover.

That build will run most stuff in HM with just one healer and one protter (probably not elite areas though you really should do those with real people anyways) .

Frankly I'm surprised that the Defensive Spirit Rit isn't used more than it is, I use it with a full MM and he can still keep all three spirits up most of the time. Well minions do soak up quite a bit of the defensive spirits health. I have used it in some of the most difficult areas of the game(if u can call them difficult at all) and he cant keep them up. I wouldn't really advise it.

ensoriki

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

IMO I rather remove discord and put in a Shared Burden Mesmer.

Swingline

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

W/

Quote:
Absolutely tore Factions up in stupid times. Hate to burst your bubble but any decent hero setup can make the mobs in factions retreat to a corner and assume the fetal position.

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

I've found approximately 4 weaknesses in this build. Let me list them:

1-3: 3 Discord Necros
4: SoGM Rit

AndrewSX

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
alt+F4 -> uninstall

Seriously, with 7 heroes people ought to be able to do a lot better than Discord...