[HM] The Underworld & Dhuum discussion
EFGJack
I know UW can be beaten easily with consumables, SCs, etcetc, but this thread is to ponder how to beat Dhuum HM with just yourself and 7 heroes (No mercs or drugs).
So I have been discussing The Underworld & Dhuum with Jeydra, but as both of us are inexperienced in the Underworld post Dhuum, we have no idea what to expect when going against him.
Has anyone completed the whole Underworld on Hard Mode without consumables? I have gotten as far as 10 quests out of 10, but I can't seem to beat Dhuum, given I've only tried him once because it takes 3 hours to get to him (And then there's a decent chance of failure while doing several quests, too...).
So, is there any way to yoink the riches from the Underworld Chest with heroes/nodrugs? I do not have an opinion as I was unprepared for the encounter.
I observed that:
1. You can not control Dhuum like you can control any other monster in the game.
2. Running after adds makes Dhuum turn onto your heroes, which is bad
3. Dhuum does not hit too hard, Mallyx hits harder (in comparison)
4. if a hero dies, disabling encase skeleton might be a good idea
5. an offensive ST rit would be more useful than SoGM as Dhuum makes quick werk of spirits.
6. excessive hero micro is required - they need to be moved constantly from either Dhuum, or his Final Fantasy -esque Death skill.
How do SC groups deal with Dhuum? Does anyone have any pointers?
Screenshots for the doubtful below
Four Horsemen
Servants of Grenth
Unwanted Guests
Quest log - 10/10
I have recorded the completion of Servants of Grenth, Imprisoned Souls & The Four Horsemen. I will upload the videos in the next few days... And if anyone wants to know how to complete any UW quests with heroes, do ask; this thread is for that, too.
Disclaimer: My hero skill bars are not final & I do not take any responsibility for the possible brain damage you may get while trying to complete UW with the same skill bars as I did.
Life Bringing
Ok...first off, congrats on 10/10. Now to tips. Any heroes powering their bar with Mesmer interrupts is going to suffer at Dhuum. I believe his only spell is on a 45 second recharge, and, while it is very important that it gets rupted, it's just not enough to maintain the energy of multiple bars. Most SC teams rely on an ER bonder and PI to take down Dhuum, although you won't be able to mimic that. The closest option I can think of is pulling out a stopwatch and microing an ST every 43 seconds or something. Everything on the spirit heroes bars should be disabled except for the DP removal one and rest. Note that if you plan on killing off some of your heroes, you still need to maintain enough DPS to kill the skeles quickly and enough healing to survive a 20ish minute encounter(shorter or longer depending on how many spirits you have). If anything, I would suggest finding room for Mantra of Flame on as many bars as possible. The only damage that actually hurts in UW is fire from the dryders, and Dhuums judgment is fire damage as well.
Another thing regarding SC teams and Dhuums behavior - SC teams have the entire team stand on the platform thing while the EMO stands a bit closer to the entrance of the room. No one ever moves much, and Dhuum never stops attacking the Emo except during the skill where he pops up and down. There's also a way to glitch him, although I wouldn't think that you'd want to abuse that.
Another thing regarding SC teams and Dhuums behavior - SC teams have the entire team stand on the platform thing while the EMO stands a bit closer to the entrance of the room. No one ever moves much, and Dhuum never stops attacking the Emo except during the skill where he pops up and down. There's also a way to glitch him, although I wouldn't think that you'd want to abuse that.
HigherMinion
Equipping heroes with staves giving the 20% faster spell recharge makes the timer go down faster. And a very gg to you, Kwossy.
Carboplatin
very impressive doing 4H with heros in HM. I couldn't get a NM team going with my warrior, so I'll have to give yours a try.
when our guild used to do UW with heros, we would run 1-2 pets because they can be rezzed during dhumm fight and serves as target for dhumm to hit on.
we also used heros who brought blood ritual and so we can sac/kill the hero before the start of the fight, so we can designate who we want to be resting dhumm. We also disabled encase skeleton.
and for 4H are you you just camping the reaper?
when our guild used to do UW with heros, we would run 1-2 pets because they can be rezzed during dhumm fight and serves as target for dhumm to hit on.
we also used heros who brought blood ritual and so we can sac/kill the hero before the start of the fight, so we can designate who we want to be resting dhumm. We also disabled encase skeleton.
and for 4H are you you just camping the reaper?
Xslash
i finished uw on hm with heroes and no cons or sweets , but i was emo.
i had glyph of swiftness to maintain ER.
also, it took forever because i only prot bonded 4 heroes to make sure I could keep up with the damage.
the other 3 just died and stayed dead.
oh and i disabled rest and encase.
relied on reapers for rest.
i let all the heroes become ghosts, because they will be turned into ghosts even if you keep them alive. when the hit 60 DP they turn into ghosts. so they gonna die eventually unless you cheat and use sweets.
**i guess you could stay alive forever if you bring asuran scan or something**
but yeah you might need DP sweets if you plan on keeping everyone alive.
i had glyph of swiftness to maintain ER.
also, it took forever because i only prot bonded 4 heroes to make sure I could keep up with the damage.
the other 3 just died and stayed dead.
oh and i disabled rest and encase.
relied on reapers for rest.
i let all the heroes become ghosts, because they will be turned into ghosts even if you keep them alive. when the hit 60 DP they turn into ghosts. so they gonna die eventually unless you cheat and use sweets.
**i guess you could stay alive forever if you bring asuran scan or something**
but yeah you might need DP sweets if you plan on keeping everyone alive.
EverDawn
Nice to see a thread like this started 
I was thinking about the subject myself, but as I am a total newb I don't really had any interesting enough to say to get the discussion going.
I have a special interest in UW. It's the only elit area I have ever stept into, and then as a 55 Necro trying to farm. It didn't go to well
Now that I returned to the game after the 7-hero update I started to try some builds there. And tried to learn the lay of the land.
Eventually I settled to have my first goal be to pre-clear UW in NM with Heroes. My first attempt went well all the way until i died to AOE from the first terrorweb spawn in the spawning pools. I actually did it with this build. No runes or insignias, no real equipment to talk about either. The heroes couldn't be more under developed actually
I cleared lost vale in my first try and died on some quest, so it's only Spawning pools that I haven't cleared yet. But no quest on the other hand.
This is the build, the paragons are stolen right off from kway (Khomets paragon team on these boardsparagons are stolen righ off from kway (Khomets paragon team on these boards):
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I'll gladly follow this discussion, come with my own questions and try to learn someting
I was thinking about the subject myself, but as I am a total newb I don't really had any interesting enough to say to get the discussion going.I have a special interest in UW. It's the only elit area I have ever stept into, and then as a 55 Necro trying to farm. It didn't go to well
Now that I returned to the game after the 7-hero update I started to try some builds there. And tried to learn the lay of the land.
Eventually I settled to have my first goal be to pre-clear UW in NM with Heroes. My first attempt went well all the way until i died to AOE from the first terrorweb spawn in the spawning pools. I actually did it with this build. No runes or insignias, no real equipment to talk about either. The heroes couldn't be more under developed actually
I cleared lost vale in my first try and died on some quest, so it's only Spawning pools that I haven't cleared yet. But no quest on the other hand.
This is the build, the paragons are stolen right off from kway (Khomets paragon team on these boardsparagons are stolen righ off from kway (Khomets paragon team on these boards):
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I'll gladly follow this discussion, come with my own questions and try to learn someting
Xenomortis
Do you know what it is specifically that caused you to fail?
I don't actually know how much damage his regular attacks do, whenever I've faced him I've had someone maintaining Protective Bond (cheap I know), but if they're not that high then, so long as you can survive Judgement of Dhuum (his lol-AoE spell) combined with his autos, your main worry is Touch of Dhuum (life-steal and causes 15% DP on target).
If you let a hero die, definitely disable Encase - it's much better to kill the skeleton minions rather than let them build up and eventually overrun you. Having a dead hero is nice for Reversal of Death (the only way to counter Touch of Dhuum).
I don't know if you know this, so I'll just state it:
The victory conditions are;
Fill the Dhuum's Rest meter (this occurs after about 10 minutes without your intervention due to the Reaper's, you can accelerate this but I would focus on staying alive).
Get Dhuum's health down to about 20%.
So you need to deal damage to him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFGJack
I don't actually know how much damage his regular attacks do, whenever I've faced him I've had someone maintaining Protective Bond (cheap I know), but if they're not that high then, so long as you can survive Judgement of Dhuum (his lol-AoE spell) combined with his autos, your main worry is Touch of Dhuum (life-steal and causes 15% DP on target).
If you let a hero die, definitely disable Encase - it's much better to kill the skeleton minions rather than let them build up and eventually overrun you. Having a dead hero is nice for Reversal of Death (the only way to counter Touch of Dhuum).
I don't know if you know this, so I'll just state it:
The victory conditions are;
Fill the Dhuum's Rest meter (this occurs after about 10 minutes without your intervention due to the Reaper's, you can accelerate this but I would focus on staying alive).
Get Dhuum's health down to about 20%.
So you need to deal damage to him.
Quote:
1. You can not control Dhuum like you can control any other monster in the game.
2. Running after adds makes Dhuum turn onto your heroes, which is bad
3. Dhuum does not hit too hard, Mallyx hits harder (in comparison)
4. if a hero dies, disabling encase skeleton might be a good idea
5. an offensive ST rit would be more useful than SoGM as Dhuum makes quick werk of spirits.
6. excessive hero micro is required - they need to be moved constantly from either Dhuum, or his Final Fantasy -esque Death skill. Exactly how much damage does he do? Can he quickly kill an unprotted hero? Is that why you need to flag them around so much?
I agree on the ST Rit - so long as it doesn't cut into your offense too much losing SoGM, it should help alleviate pressure from Dhuum a lot.
2. Running after adds makes Dhuum turn onto your heroes, which is bad
3. Dhuum does not hit too hard, Mallyx hits harder (in comparison)
4. if a hero dies, disabling encase skeleton might be a good idea
5. an offensive ST rit would be more useful than SoGM as Dhuum makes quick werk of spirits.
6. excessive hero micro is required - they need to be moved constantly from either Dhuum, or his Final Fantasy -esque Death skill. Exactly how much damage does he do? Can he quickly kill an unprotted hero? Is that why you need to flag them around so much?
I agree on the ST Rit - so long as it doesn't cut into your offense too much losing SoGM, it should help alleviate pressure from Dhuum a lot.
Jeydra
Dude I got to 9/10 and then Reaper died during Unwanted Guests (it got attacked by patrols, and I had almost no experience with the quest ...). Now I don't have ANY experience whatsoever with Dhuum, Jesus Christ. Congrats on completion anyway, after all those endless 20-minute runs to Pits / Plains / Wastes etc lol.
Xslash do you have a screenshot?
Things I'd want to know about Dhuum:
1. He's melee and moves around like other melee monsters right? Does that mean it's possible to hold his aggro with mass summons? If that doesn't work, how deadly is he if he manages to hit a caster? Is it possible to snare and kite him indefinitely?
2. Where does the threat of failure come from? Is it only from Judgement, or is he capable of killing people without Judgement? How much party healing is required to survive a Judgement?
3. Will his DP-adding skill outpace removal (from killing his summons)? Will it outpace the DP removal of one spirit?
4. Will I need anything other than heals and damage for Dhuum?
Xslash do you have a screenshot?
Things I'd want to know about Dhuum:
1. He's melee and moves around like other melee monsters right? Does that mean it's possible to hold his aggro with mass summons? If that doesn't work, how deadly is he if he manages to hit a caster? Is it possible to snare and kite him indefinitely?
2. Where does the threat of failure come from? Is it only from Judgement, or is he capable of killing people without Judgement? How much party healing is required to survive a Judgement?
3. Will his DP-adding skill outpace removal (from killing his summons)? Will it outpace the DP removal of one spirit?
4. Will I need anything other than heals and damage for Dhuum?
Vazze
Nice! My heroes killed Dhuum in NM but I never got to him in HM: reaper just can't stay alive during 4H.
Dhuum should not be a problem though, bring PI and party heals, that's all.
Dhuum should not be a problem though, bring PI and party heals, that's all.
aga
You can skip most of the mobs on the way to plains, can run past all the Behemoths on mountains, except the ones around the monument. And the dreamriders in plains will break aggro very fast, you should only need to kill the one on the monument and the 1 on each side, although maybe once people start getting more confident with their heroes you could skip the ones on the side.
Ungle
Piercing asked me to post
1. You can hold his aggro with mass summons, but Dhuum tends to go straight for the lowest hp 60al target. He will make a b-line for it in general when he spawns (Dhuum goes in cycles, where he is undergroud, pops up to hit people a few times, then comes up, spawns some minions, hexes someone once or twice, uses judgement, then goes back down after a few seconds. Judgement comes on an approx 45 second cycle so you can guess when the spike will come
2. Judgement is up too 450ish damage in a 4second burst. He can pretty much instantly kill a squishy with his hex, his summoned champion, and a few scythe hits. Of the two kinds of minions he summons (Minions and Champion) you only really need to worry about the champion doing any real hurt to your team.
3. Killing minions wont outdo his DP, as he can hit more then one target with it. As piercing said you can have one person dead just using removal. You can instantly tell who has DP because when they get hexed (The only Hex at Dhuum), they get DP.
4. Not really. If your ok with PvE skills pain inverter really really hurts him when he uses judgement. A single PI with a full party can take out atleast an 1/8th of his health. You can time his judgement and know approx when to take PI by counting/timing off 45 seconds from when you trigger him, as he always uses judgement when he first turns hostile.
1. You can hold his aggro with mass summons, but Dhuum tends to go straight for the lowest hp 60al target. He will make a b-line for it in general when he spawns (Dhuum goes in cycles, where he is undergroud, pops up to hit people a few times, then comes up, spawns some minions, hexes someone once or twice, uses judgement, then goes back down after a few seconds. Judgement comes on an approx 45 second cycle so you can guess when the spike will come
2. Judgement is up too 450ish damage in a 4second burst. He can pretty much instantly kill a squishy with his hex, his summoned champion, and a few scythe hits. Of the two kinds of minions he summons (Minions and Champion) you only really need to worry about the champion doing any real hurt to your team.
3. Killing minions wont outdo his DP, as he can hit more then one target with it. As piercing said you can have one person dead just using removal. You can instantly tell who has DP because when they get hexed (The only Hex at Dhuum), they get DP.
4. Not really. If your ok with PvE skills pain inverter really really hurts him when he uses judgement. A single PI with a full party can take out atleast an 1/8th of his health. You can time his judgement and know approx when to take PI by counting/timing off 45 seconds from when you trigger him, as he always uses judgement when he first turns hostile.
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFGJack
So I have been discussing The Underworld & Dhuum with Jeydra, but as both of us are inexperienced in the Underworld post Dhuum, we have no idea what to expect when going against him. 1. Rather tan talk about it, it might be simpler to take EFG and/or Jeydra on a physway run through UW. That should give you chance to observe Dhuum first hand. If you're interested, maybe I'll be able to gether some RARE peoples these weekend or something.
2. There's already a thread on this topic: here. (You can ignore the people talking about the imaginary bug.)
3.
Quote: Has anyone completed the whole Underworld on Hard Mode without consumables? RARE assembled a team to do it for the competition that was called off. During a test run we completed everything hard, but wiped in Pits when yours truly misuderstood the plan and ran off the heal the wrong side of the split. So, I have no doubt that it's doable.... with live people at least. (We had 2 heroes at the time.)
4. I'm curious what tactic you used on 4H. Camp the reaper?
5.
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeydra
Things I'd want to know about Dhuum:1. He's melee and moves around like other melee monsters right? Does that mean it's possible to hold his aggro with mass summons? If that doesn't work, how deadly is he if he manages to hit a caster? Is it possible to snare and kite him indefinitely? He seems to move a little more slowly than normal. At least I've always found him very easy to kite as a caster. It's also reasonably easy to get his attention as a melee by running up and hitting him.
More problematic is his teleporting thing. The teleporting attack is actually an opportunity to heal/e-regen because it's pretty slow and very low damage if you prot it. (It's also un-kite-able, so don't bother.) But once he's done, he's going to reappear randomly and start his normal attack sequence. It's almost a certainty that eventually he's going to pop up far from your decoys and right next to your squishies.
Given the hero AI not kiting too well, Dhuum's immunity to conditions, and his short hex duration, I'd bet that indefinite snare+kite is just not going to be practical.
Quote: 2. Where does the threat of failure come from? Is it only from Judgement, or is he capable of killing people without Judgement? How much party healing is required to survive a Judgement? Skeletons are the immediate threat. If they pile up, reapers die, and then you're done. (Dhuum doesn't attack reapers except with the splash from Judgment, which they heal themselves from in between uses.) Pressure is the second threat. Judgment is a big part of the pressure, but he's still dangerous without it. The third threat is the damn DP touch, which I'll come back to later. I don't know how much party heal is needed to counteract Judgment because I always mitigate it instead.
Quote:
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3. Will his DP-adding skill outpace removal (from killing his summons)? Will it outpace the DP removal of one spirit?
He will touch up DP faster than skellies will remove it. Players might be able to keep up via AScan now, but heroes are SoL without cons. Two spirit people can keep up with the touching. One? Maybe. Quote:
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I have tried t ostudy the area as much as I can. That is one of the reasons I like seeing this thread develop. My problem before was that I didnt fidn enugh information I could use myself to make the trial and error part not suck me try on gold, haha. I watch a lot of tutorials on the 55 farm, but never got succes rate high enugh to not lose gold each time.
Maybe it's here that my generall lack of experince shows. I wanted to skimp on the equipment untill i settled on at least a generall set of heroes to run.
D.S.
