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Originally Posted by EFGJack
I know UW can be beaten easily with consumables, SCs, etcetc, but this thread is to ponder how to beat Dhuum HM with just yourself and 7 heroes (No mercs or drugs).
So I have been discussing The Underworld & Dhuum with Jeydra, but as both of us are inexperienced in the Underworld post Dhuum, we have no idea what to expect when going against him.
1. Rather tan talk about it, it might be simpler to take EFG and/or Jeydra on a physway run through UW. That should give you chance to observe Dhuum first hand. If you're interested, maybe I'll be able to gether some RARE peoples these weekend or something.
2. There's already a thread on this topic: here. (You can ignore the people talking about the imaginary bug.)
3.
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Has anyone completed the whole Underworld on Hard Mode without consumables?
RARE assembled a team to do it for the competition that was called off. During a test run we completed everything hard, but wiped in Pits when yours truly misuderstood the plan and ran off the heal the wrong side of the split. So, I have no doubt that it's doable.... with live people at least. (We had 2 heroes at the time.)
4. I'm curious what tactic you used on 4H. Camp the reaper?
5.
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
Things I'd want to know about Dhuum:
1. He's melee and moves around like other melee monsters right? Does that mean it's possible to hold his aggro with mass summons? If that doesn't work, how deadly is he if he manages to hit a caster? Is it possible to snare and kite him indefinitely?
He seems to move a little more slowly than normal. At least I've always found him very easy to kite as a caster. It's also reasonably easy to get his attention as a melee by running up and hitting him.
More problematic is his teleporting thing. The teleporting attack is actually an opportunity to heal/e-regen because it's pretty slow and very low damage if you prot it. (It's also un-kite-able, so don't bother.) But once he's done, he's going to reappear randomly and start his normal attack sequence. It's almost a certainty that eventually he's going to pop up far from your decoys and right next to your squishies.
Given the hero AI not kiting too well, Dhuum's immunity to conditions, and his short hex duration, I'd bet that indefinite snare+kite is just not going to be practical.
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2. Where does the threat of failure come from? Is it only from Judgement, or is he capable of killing people without Judgement? How much party healing is required to survive a Judgement?
Skeletons are the immediate threat. If they pile up, reapers die, and then you're done. (Dhuum doesn't attack reapers except with the splash from Judgment, which they heal themselves from in between uses.) Pressure is the second threat. Judgment is a big part of the pressure, but he's still dangerous without it. The third threat is the damn DP touch, which I'll come back to later. I don't know how much party heal is needed to counteract Judgment because I always mitigate it instead.
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3. Will his DP-adding skill outpace removal (from killing his summons)? Will it outpace the DP removal of one spirit?
He will touch up DP faster than skellies will remove it. Players might be able to keep up via AScan now, but heroes are SoL without cons. Two spirit people can keep up with the touching. One? Maybe.
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4. Will I need anything other than heals and damage for Dhuum?
See my post in the other thread linked above. The bare minimum is not dying and killing the skeletons. In a sense, the rest is optional, but there are some things that help a lot.
6. Dealing with the DP touch skill:
If you're not going to use cons, you're going to have to accept that you're going to have some people touched out. I'm not at all sure how you're going to control who gets touched out. When doing it with a live team, we have people suicide to get a spirit or two before anyone else gets much DP built up. Again, no idea how to do that with heroes.
There's a couple of things you can do to reduce the number of touches he makes. One is Earthbind. You can stop maybe 2/3 of everything he does, including the touch, with Earthbind + GDW spam. Earthbind+ Dragon Slash + Brawling Headbutt would probably com close to that. The other is Can't Touch This. Yes, we know that Can't Touch This is a dumb skill in that it doesn't cause a recharge, but Dhuum's AI sometimes gives up on the touch and moves on to something else.
7. Dealing with the pressure, especially Judgment:
The usual suspects: SY!, ProtBond, Shelter. I'd suspect that PS would work if you had two people cycling it. Otherwise you're going to eat a whole bunch of damage on Judgment. Earthbind knocklock reduces the pressure considerably.
You're basically dealing with an infinite time horizon here, so you should compare HPS to DPS, and no deficit spending on energy. Either your backline has more heal/sec, while using only 4 pips, than he has damage/sec, and you win; or he has more damage/sec than your backline has heal/sec on 4 pips, and you will eventually lose.
8. Other stuff
If your party has ghosts, EBSoWisdom reduces the recharge on the rest skill and speeds things up considerably.
If your party has decent damage, PI is a complete waste of a skillslot. I'd only recommend PI if you've had to spec so much defense on the heroes that you can't reduce his health under 20% faster than the reapers can fill his bar.
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I was thinking about the subject myself, but as I am a total newb I don't really had any interesting enough to say to get the discussion going.
I have tried t ostudy the area as much as I can. That is one of the reasons I like seeing this thread develop. My problem before was that I didnt fidn enugh information I could use myself to make the trial and error part not suck me try on gold, haha. I watch a lot of tutorials on the 55 farm, but never got succes rate high enugh to not lose gold each time.