7H general HM build for the advanced warrior
EFGJack
I did minor alterations and completed Duncan HM with this setup. Namely Swap on the warrior and Kaolai instead of rift to cope with Duncan's Defenses. It went smooth but I reckon the common advanced user will have a harder time. I also reckon soil & eoe can be fit on the mesmers instead of sigs of rejuvenation for Slaver's.
Emoface
As one of the Belgian guildmates described by EFGJack in the OT, I decided to post my 2cents on the build and everything around it.
Disclaimer: I have little experience in playing a warrior in PvE so I won’t be talking about the warrior build that is being used, but from what I’m being told it’s pretty much the best a warrior has to offer in the current state of the game.
I have played on several occasions with Jack, and I can’t recall any moment where we actually failed to do what we came to do. Every time the only thing I had to was cast EBSoH and EBSoW and if I was lucky I could throw a LOrb at the remainder of the enemies. (excluding Bosses or other forms of “elite” enemies)
He has made it very clear that this build is only at its prime when played by people who actually know what they’re supposed to do and are actually capable of the little micro this build needs. I had the utopian vision of current players that they were all using the hero flags to its full use but upon reading various posts in this thread I had to rethink my viewpoint on this matter.
This build is very capable of destroying, and I mean literally wrecking everything that comes in its way when played right. (Completing 9 HM missions in Elona in about 100 minutes says hi! Said missions were: Docks, Fennur’s Horde, Gate of Desolation, Gate of Madness, Gate of Pain, Abbadon’s Gate, Ruins of Morah, Grand Court and Dzagonur… Kudos to Kossy for boosting me through these ;])
The argument of it not bringing enough healing is actually rather pointless when a mob is dead before they can kill you or any of your heroes. Of course something can go wrong and then it’s possible that someone on your team dies but Death Pact Signet resurrects rather fast so they’re up again in no time.
The point I think EFGJack is trying to make with this topic is that there are 7H teams out there that can be as fast or even better than the cookie cutter builds known by the majority of the players. The objective of this thread can be seen as providing an alternative to what is out there and not trying convert of all the non believers into using this and nothing else.
Disclaimer: I have little experience in playing a warrior in PvE so I won’t be talking about the warrior build that is being used, but from what I’m being told it’s pretty much the best a warrior has to offer in the current state of the game.
I have played on several occasions with Jack, and I can’t recall any moment where we actually failed to do what we came to do. Every time the only thing I had to was cast EBSoH and EBSoW and if I was lucky I could throw a LOrb at the remainder of the enemies. (excluding Bosses or other forms of “elite” enemies)
He has made it very clear that this build is only at its prime when played by people who actually know what they’re supposed to do and are actually capable of the little micro this build needs. I had the utopian vision of current players that they were all using the hero flags to its full use but upon reading various posts in this thread I had to rethink my viewpoint on this matter.
This build is very capable of destroying, and I mean literally wrecking everything that comes in its way when played right. (Completing 9 HM missions in Elona in about 100 minutes says hi! Said missions were: Docks, Fennur’s Horde, Gate of Desolation, Gate of Madness, Gate of Pain, Abbadon’s Gate, Ruins of Morah, Grand Court and Dzagonur… Kudos to Kossy for boosting me through these ;])
The argument of it not bringing enough healing is actually rather pointless when a mob is dead before they can kill you or any of your heroes. Of course something can go wrong and then it’s possible that someone on your team dies but Death Pact Signet resurrects rather fast so they’re up again in no time.
The point I think EFGJack is trying to make with this topic is that there are 7H teams out there that can be as fast or even better than the cookie cutter builds known by the majority of the players. The objective of this thread can be seen as providing an alternative to what is out there and not trying convert of all the non believers into using this and nothing else.
LexTalionis
@Emoface
But was there ever any doubt that "cookie-cutter" builds aren't necessarily at peak efficiency for anything? Discord doesn't kill particularly quickly, it's just an incredibly defensive build with a spammable single target attack spell. Spirits take awhile to set up on heroes and have no AoE to speak of. I have no doubts that EFGJack posted a build that has impressive non-scattering AoE damage and therefore, if you can AoE, it will give formidable results.
The issue here is that using speed as the only qualification for how good a build is can be a flawed concept as there are other benchmarks people use to define a term as arbitrary and subjective as the horrible word "good" (good at what?). You could just say "It's a build that's kinda easy to play which is built for killing clumped things extremely quickly!" and maybe people wouldn't get so irate over the use of that nasty word.
But was there ever any doubt that "cookie-cutter" builds aren't necessarily at peak efficiency for anything? Discord doesn't kill particularly quickly, it's just an incredibly defensive build with a spammable single target attack spell. Spirits take awhile to set up on heroes and have no AoE to speak of. I have no doubts that EFGJack posted a build that has impressive non-scattering AoE damage and therefore, if you can AoE, it will give formidable results.
The issue here is that using speed as the only qualification for how good a build is can be a flawed concept as there are other benchmarks people use to define a term as arbitrary and subjective as the horrible word "good" (good at what?). You could just say "It's a build that's kinda easy to play which is built for killing clumped things extremely quickly!" and maybe people wouldn't get so irate over the use of that nasty word.
Wenspire
Daesu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirl E Vic
Clearly the most appropriate test would be to see if the build can kill in:
Talus Chute
Verdant Cascades
and possibly
The Falls I would say to try this in HM Dalada Uplands just outside Doomlore Shrine. Try it against the insects, Horai Wingshielder, and his mob. The degen would make this more interesting.
It is possible for this build to work well, but not if you have exposed your backline. Against certain mobs it can kill very fast.
Talus Chute
Verdant Cascades
and possibly
The Falls I would say to try this in HM Dalada Uplands just outside Doomlore Shrine. Try it against the insects, Horai Wingshielder, and his mob. The degen would make this more interesting.
It is possible for this build to work well, but not if you have exposed your backline. Against certain mobs it can kill very fast.
LexTalionis
I don't think he ever said his build was a solution to everything in the game. Part of being good at Guild Wars requires the ability to metagame effectively against what your party might encounter. I'm sure his build has the flexibility to overcome small hassles.
Your case is that his build is bad at playing in defensive situations, which might be a valid point, so why not test it out against general defensive situations instead of specific silver bullets to his build? Like hmm, Glint's Challenge, Amatz Basin, Dragon's Throat, and Zos Shivros.
Your case is that his build is bad at playing in defensive situations, which might be a valid point, so why not test it out against general defensive situations instead of specific silver bullets to his build? Like hmm, Glint's Challenge, Amatz Basin, Dragon's Throat, and Zos Shivros.
Wenspire
I'd like to think it's better to compare it as....
[100% speed with 75% reliability] vs. [75% speed and 100% reliablility]
The question is "which would a person rather choose?".
[100% speed with 75% reliability] vs. [75% speed and 100% reliablility]
The question is "which would a person rather choose?".
mugen
good damage but for example i hardly survive doa with this build
heroes keeps dying - rt run out of mana etc.
heroes keeps dying - rt run out of mana etc.
EFGJack
LexTalionis
Quote:
Originally Posted by paK0
One company males 5000$ a month. Another company in the same place, with the same number of employees, whichs products cost the same to produce, makes 10000$ a month.
Which one is better? You could argue company A is better, since the "5" looks more pretty than the "10" but aside from that, if you only compare the two it is pretty easy to say which is the good one and which is the bad one.
I thing good is more an expression of efficiency then fun, so you can in fact define it if you only look at the measurable values leading to the outcome. Your perspective is too narrow. If the two companies are using identical procedures, identical marketing and identical everything, why aren't they making identical profits? I can't accept your modus ponens because we can't agree on logical terms, therefore we cannot debate this until we establish a set of common standards.
Let me use rhetoric to illustrate my point: Is the only varying factor the profit? If this is true, why are the profits different? Does Company #1 use unethical procedures to make a larger profit than Company #2? Does this make them better since they're to be judged completely by profit? Does company #2 only make a smaller profit because it's a non-profit or civic organisation? Did company #2's profits get slashed because their production facilities got hit by a tsunami? If so, does this make company #2 worse?
Which one is better? You could argue company A is better, since the "5" looks more pretty than the "10" but aside from that, if you only compare the two it is pretty easy to say which is the good one and which is the bad one.
I thing good is more an expression of efficiency then fun, so you can in fact define it if you only look at the measurable values leading to the outcome. Your perspective is too narrow. If the two companies are using identical procedures, identical marketing and identical everything, why aren't they making identical profits? I can't accept your modus ponens because we can't agree on logical terms, therefore we cannot debate this until we establish a set of common standards.
Let me use rhetoric to illustrate my point: Is the only varying factor the profit? If this is true, why are the profits different? Does Company #1 use unethical procedures to make a larger profit than Company #2? Does this make them better since they're to be judged completely by profit? Does company #2 only make a smaller profit because it's a non-profit or civic organisation? Did company #2's profits get slashed because their production facilities got hit by a tsunami? If so, does this make company #2 worse?
maxxfury
I think the company that made the profit was probably cos they were not sat on their asses drinking coffee cruising thru chatting away, and were actively making more effort and stepping out of the mainstream taking a chance...and been rewarded for this 
Making a little more effort for better results doesnt mean they are working sub optimally does it? cos the outcome is more "profit" for a little more work..
Or to apply it to the thread more directly:
the company that only made 5k is the bdsm users who sit drinking coffee cruising thru with no micro or real effort saying 'making the effort is sub optimal', and the company that made the 10k is EFGjack/player who runs a tailored more focused build running micro and agro control and putting some effort in, gettin the area's cleared faster..
Agro control and flaggin IS only a little work aswell. does it take much work to click the flag button (or macro'd key hopefully) and plant them as you run forward, then kill, and potentially unflag if needed? .. If your agro control is bad then stick to making 5k or work on it!
Tho if your not interested in doin the most stuff in the time available or if you want to just chat with mates while stuff is happening around you?.. GG! run the less "work intensive" stuff! i often do but when i really want to bring it, i micro, agro and generally play with some effort!
*note: not an EFGjack fanboy, never spoken to the guy in game or in forum.. His build is interchangeable with any GOOD zone/mission/area tailored build that you could dev and run.. that will be faster with more effort used..
Making a little more effort for better results doesnt mean they are working sub optimally does it? cos the outcome is more "profit" for a little more work..
Or to apply it to the thread more directly:
the company that only made 5k is the bdsm users who sit drinking coffee cruising thru with no micro or real effort saying 'making the effort is sub optimal', and the company that made the 10k is EFGjack/player who runs a tailored more focused build running micro and agro control and putting some effort in, gettin the area's cleared faster..
Agro control and flaggin IS only a little work aswell. does it take much work to click the flag button (or macro'd key hopefully) and plant them as you run forward, then kill, and potentially unflag if needed? .. If your agro control is bad then stick to making 5k or work on it!
Tho if your not interested in doin the most stuff in the time available or if you want to just chat with mates while stuff is happening around you?.. GG! run the less "work intensive" stuff! i often do
but when i really want to bring it, i micro, agro and generally play with some effort!*note: not an EFGjack fanboy, never spoken to the guy in game or in forum.. His build is interchangeable with any GOOD zone/mission/area tailored build that you could dev and run.. that will be faster with more effort used..
paK0
Maybe company 2's employees are better, or their machines are working faster. Then its something they could change, but are unwilling/unable to do, which makes them worse indeed.
And now lets put that in Guild Wars terminology:
The machines are the build, the employees are the player and the product is the time/run the whole thing produces.Yes, luck will affect it, but only a little bit, on average the main thing that sets the outcome is the combination of the player skill and the build used. Other factors might change this a little but overall not so much that it should in fact matter (I'm not one to say a build is strictly worse because is was 5 seconds slower than another one).
If you have some suggetions for standards to define a good build be my guest to share them, but for now speed is the one that determines it for me.
Also keep in mind that we discuss only the build here, so you have to assume the ones that use it are actually capable of using it. If one is too lazy to use micro, that that changes the build for that one individual, but it is something that should not be taken into account when looking for the build that can pull of the best results.
And now lets put that in Guild Wars terminology:
The machines are the build, the employees are the player and the product is the time/run the whole thing produces.Yes, luck will affect it, but only a little bit, on average the main thing that sets the outcome is the combination of the player skill and the build used. Other factors might change this a little but overall not so much that it should in fact matter (I'm not one to say a build is strictly worse because is was 5 seconds slower than another one).
If you have some suggetions for standards to define a good build be my guest to share them, but for now speed is the one that determines it for me.
Also keep in mind that we discuss only the build here, so you have to assume the ones that use it are actually capable of using it. If one is too lazy to use micro, that that changes the build for that one individual, but it is something that should not be taken into account when looking for the build that can pull of the best results.
Haggis of Doom
^You are forgetting the fact that company 2's machinery is fragile (on top of requiring a master degree in astrophysics to run, so I doubt you're paying equal wages ^^). One slip on the part of the worker, and the whole thing explodes. Company 1's machinery can function at around 80% speed of company 2's, except with no requirement on the workers and with no risk of agonizing death either.
If you were looking to invest in one of these companies, which one would you choose?
(BTW, before someone points it out, this comparison is different from the "other builds" vs BDSM one, since the "other builds" are just as safe as BDSM)
If you were looking to invest in one of these companies, which one would you choose?
(BTW, before someone points it out, this comparison is different from the "other builds" vs BDSM one, since the "other builds" are just as safe as BDSM)
maxxfury
Reminds me of the old ak47 vs ar15 "argument" !
rugged, reliable and you can cake it in mud! vs better accuracy, better terminal ballistics and the need to clean it more!... NEVER be a winner, people will always have their preference and will always be debated!
rugged, reliable and you can cake it in mud! vs better accuracy, better terminal ballistics and the need to clean it more!... NEVER be a winner, people will always have their preference and will always be debated!
XxForgexX
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxfury
Reminds me of the old ak47 vs ar15 "argument"
except this build is neither an AK-47 nor an AR-15. it's a plastic knife
LexTalionis
*sigh* I guess I'd better explain more thoroughly.
We can't debate because we can't establish a common agreement since to my perspective, you are denying the antecedent.
In simple logic, a valid argumental modus tollens is like this:
If a build is fast, then it is good.
This build is not good.
Therefore, it is not fast.
This argument is VALID logically.
Denying the antecedent is an invalid form of logic which runs like this:
If a build is fast, then it is good.
This build is not fast.
Therefore, it is not good. (What???)
I could illustrate the fallacy using a Venn Diagram, but here's an easier to understand example:
If an animal is a dog, it is a mammal.
This animal (a cat) is not a dog.
Therefore it is not a mammal. (What???)
or
Your sister is a woman.
Your mother is not your sister.
Therefore, your mother is not a woman. (Huh?)
See why I can't accept your arguments?
For us to even begin to debate, we need to establish a common modus ponens. Your proposition is "If a build is good, it is fast". I cannot accept that because I believe that good is NOT a subset of fast nor equivalent to fast. I believe that there are good builds that are NOT fast (example: Spiritway). It's like saying "If a person is stupid, he eats razor blades" (It should be the other way around!).
Since I cannot agree with you on this statement, we cannot debate.
We can't debate because we can't establish a common agreement since to my perspective, you are denying the antecedent.
In simple logic, a valid argumental modus tollens is like this:
If a build is fast, then it is good.
This build is not good.
Therefore, it is not fast.
This argument is VALID logically.
Denying the antecedent is an invalid form of logic which runs like this:
If a build is fast, then it is good.
This build is not fast.
Therefore, it is not good. (What???)
I could illustrate the fallacy using a Venn Diagram, but here's an easier to understand example:
If an animal is a dog, it is a mammal.
This animal (a cat) is not a dog.
Therefore it is not a mammal. (What???)
or
Your sister is a woman.
Your mother is not your sister.
Therefore, your mother is not a woman. (Huh?)
See why I can't accept your arguments?
For us to even begin to debate, we need to establish a common modus ponens. Your proposition is "If a build is good, it is fast". I cannot accept that because I believe that good is NOT a subset of fast nor equivalent to fast. I believe that there are good builds that are NOT fast (example: Spiritway). It's like saying "If a person is stupid, he eats razor blades" (It should be the other way around!).
Since I cannot agree with you on this statement, we cannot debate.
Jeydra
Are you seriously calling Spiritway "not fast" ... back in the H/H era Spiritway overpowered every other H/H build for casters out there. How can you call that "not fast"?
I stand by the proposition "if a build is good, then it is fast".
And lol @ some people still throwing criticism but not posting evidence to back up that criticism. If this build really is a plastic knife, it would be so easy to beat it. Why not just do it then, or hold your peace forever?
Also @ some people thinking this build has a 75% reliability (or something) - that is a misconception, plain and simple. My failure rate with the builds I'm used to using are very low in general, essentially zero in areas where I can afford to wipe a couple of times (e.g. Vloxen's HM), and I run what people would call "glass cannon" builds too. I have little doubt EFGJack's failure rate with this build is similar to mine. Like the idea that heroes don't recast spirits and therefore spiritway is slow, a 75% success rate is simply an illusion.
I stand by the proposition "if a build is good, then it is fast".
And lol @ some people still throwing criticism but not posting evidence to back up that criticism. If this build really is a plastic knife, it would be so easy to beat it. Why not just do it then, or hold your peace forever?
Also @ some people thinking this build has a 75% reliability (or something) - that is a misconception, plain and simple. My failure rate with the builds I'm used to using are very low in general, essentially zero in areas where I can afford to wipe a couple of times (e.g. Vloxen's HM), and I run what people would call "glass cannon" builds too. I have little doubt EFGJack's failure rate with this build is similar to mine. Like the idea that heroes don't recast spirits and therefore spiritway is slow, a 75% success rate is simply an illusion.
Wenspire
There is going to be a higher amount of failure rate to that build when there is no tactics involved in using it (flagging, body blocking, etc). Obviously, if the person is going to do those things, the failure rate drops but so does the speed.
Jeydra
Look at the amount of AoE in the build and then tell me that proper aggro will somehow result in a slower speed ...
LexTalionis
@Jeydra :
Hmm. I've played Spiritway too, but you know, I might be completely spoiled by the speed of AoE Mesway (Since I'm a Mesmer, I've always had 3 Mesmers). Spiritway takes much longer to clean packs like that dual margonite pull than EFGJack's video because AoE is better than single target damage and the SoGM ritualist usually has a bunch of spirits on cooldown at the start of every battle (unless you wait). Not just that, but the Hero AI is very bad at using SoGM (and spirits don't always listen to target calling).
Heck, even running around with modifications of my ridiculously defensive Dwaynaway usually clears stuff faster than Spiritway. But Spiritway is safe in nearly all areas, its single target damage once all the spirits are out is top-notch and it is very difficult to counter.
Fast is a relative term. I'm not going to argue further about whether Spiritway is fast or not because arguing about relative terms is silly. So if you're willing to say that Spiritway is fast, let's accept that and I'll propose the following logic chain occurs:
1) There can be no bad and fast builds. (If there are bad and fast builds and good and fast builds, being fast has no influence on goodness nor badness and is irrelevant to the discussion.)
2) EFGJack's build is fast (Evidence: video shows his double pull which is faster at killing that dual Margonite pack than Spiritway).
3) Therefore, EFGJack's build is not bad.
Note that you haven't proved that it's good (because fast isn't the same as good unless fast is completely and utterly equivalent to good), but you've shown that it's definitely not bad.
To prove it's good - well, you could propose that good/bad is a digital state and not analog, then something can only be good or bad and there is no in-between, so if his build is not bad, you know it must be good. People don't have to accept this digital state modus ponens (they may believe that a build can be neither good nor bad), but it's just an example of one way of going about it with logic.
Another simpler way is to submit this statement (as you just did): All fast builds are good. Now there can be no such thing as a bad and fast build, no matter how fragile it is or difficult it is to play. This doesn't mean that fast == good, but we can show that if a build is fast, it must be good. The problem is that you're going to have to get people to agree on this statement and if they don't, you'll have conflict.
edit: Upon reflection, that's probably the issue right now. For people to argue against your theory, they need to propose the possibility of a build being fast, yet not good (which they are doing now by raising the possibility of a build being difficult to play and fragile - which makes it bad to them - even though it is fast). If you can't accept this supposition, both of you will never be able to debate the issue meaningfully because both of you have no common agreement. (you can have a wonderful and heated row though)
Hmm. I've played Spiritway too, but you know, I might be completely spoiled by the speed of AoE Mesway (Since I'm a Mesmer, I've always had 3 Mesmers). Spiritway takes much longer to clean packs like that dual margonite pull than EFGJack's video because AoE is better than single target damage and the SoGM ritualist usually has a bunch of spirits on cooldown at the start of every battle (unless you wait). Not just that, but the Hero AI is very bad at using SoGM (and spirits don't always listen to target calling).
Heck, even running around with modifications of my ridiculously defensive Dwaynaway usually clears stuff faster than Spiritway. But Spiritway is safe in nearly all areas, its single target damage once all the spirits are out is top-notch and it is very difficult to counter.
Fast is a relative term. I'm not going to argue further about whether Spiritway is fast or not because arguing about relative terms is silly. So if you're willing to say that Spiritway is fast, let's accept that and I'll propose the following logic chain occurs:
1) There can be no bad and fast builds. (If there are bad and fast builds and good and fast builds, being fast has no influence on goodness nor badness and is irrelevant to the discussion.)
2) EFGJack's build is fast (Evidence: video shows his double pull which is faster at killing that dual Margonite pack than Spiritway).
3) Therefore, EFGJack's build is not bad.
Note that you haven't proved that it's good (because fast isn't the same as good unless fast is completely and utterly equivalent to good), but you've shown that it's definitely not bad.
To prove it's good - well, you could propose that good/bad is a digital state and not analog, then something can only be good or bad and there is no in-between, so if his build is not bad, you know it must be good. People don't have to accept this digital state modus ponens (they may believe that a build can be neither good nor bad), but it's just an example of one way of going about it with logic.
Another simpler way is to submit this statement (as you just did): All fast builds are good. Now there can be no such thing as a bad and fast build, no matter how fragile it is or difficult it is to play. This doesn't mean that fast == good, but we can show that if a build is fast, it must be good. The problem is that you're going to have to get people to agree on this statement and if they don't, you'll have conflict.
edit: Upon reflection, that's probably the issue right now. For people to argue against your theory, they need to propose the possibility of a build being fast, yet not good (which they are doing now by raising the possibility of a build being difficult to play and fragile - which makes it bad to them - even though it is fast). If you can't accept this supposition, both of you will never be able to debate the issue meaningfully because both of you have no common agreement. (you can have a wonderful and heated row though)
timbo_3101
Times for quest completion are objective, are quantifiable, and are reproducible. They are an excellent measure or surrogate measure for comparing two competing builds, limitations aside.
So why won't anyone dare to challenge Jeydra or EFGJack to a time trial in this open forum, other than providing subjective comments and criticism which are unsubstantiated?
So why won't anyone dare to challenge Jeydra or EFGJack to a time trial in this open forum, other than providing subjective comments and criticism which are unsubstantiated?
Wenspire
Yes, there is definitely plenty of killing power in the build. That isn't being disputed. But obviously, if tactics aren't used with it, it's effectiveness drops. Even the OP mentions flagging. The fact that someone tried the build setup and wiped numerous times with it (without microing anything) should tell you how unstable it is when used that way. And when you have to micro, speed drops compared to not having to deal with doing that.
Any area that allows you to potentially skip groups to complete are terrible areas to test with. If it just came down to speed, SC builds would reign supreme.
Any area that allows you to potentially skip groups to complete are terrible areas to test with. If it just came down to speed, SC builds would reign supreme.
EFGJack
@Timbo - running one specific zone several times a day just to cut off some odd seconds isn't exactly fun, this is why you don't see anyone drawing their pistols. 
Anyway, this build is what I came up with after experimenting with just how little defense I can get away with. I'm sure I can drop some spirits on the ST but it's not exactly important. I actually have a very friendly build that can clear anything thrown at it with only minor modifications but I published this one just to get opinions about this approach as it's really uncommon. And I thank everyone involved in this discussion ;>
My 2cents on the subject - one gets horrible results with this build if he tries to use this build as a c+space build or lacks the patience to execute proper pulls every single time, but if you rather put up effort in it, it's really great in the zones it can take on. And this doesn't mean it's very limited, as I cleared all five zones in Slaver's HM with this build. Only modifications I did was Rift -> Kaolai and Sigs of Rejuvenation changed to Soil & EOE. It's not the best build for Slavers' though. some builds are more mobile so they gain a lot by being able to move faster even if the build kills slower. Hm.
@Wenspire - if one has experience with micro it doesn't slow you down as it's reflex-like. You don't even know you're doing it
Anyway, this build is what I came up with after experimenting with just how little defense I can get away with. I'm sure I can drop some spirits on the ST but it's not exactly important. I actually have a very friendly build that can clear anything thrown at it with only minor modifications but I published this one just to get opinions about this approach as it's really uncommon. And I thank everyone involved in this discussion ;>My 2cents on the subject - one gets horrible results with this build if he tries to use this build as a c+space build or lacks the patience to execute proper pulls every single time, but if you rather put up effort in it, it's really great in the zones it can take on. And this doesn't mean it's very limited, as I cleared all five zones in Slaver's HM with this build. Only modifications I did was Rift -> Kaolai and Sigs of Rejuvenation changed to Soil & EOE. It's not the best build for Slavers' though. some builds are more mobile so they gain a lot by being able to move faster even if the build kills slower. Hm.
@Wenspire - if one has experience with micro it doesn't slow you down as it's reflex-like. You don't even know you're doing it
hunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFGJack
Anyway, this build is what I came up with after experimenting with just how little defense I can get away with. I'm sure I can drop some spirits on the ST but it's not exactly important. I actually have a very friendly build that can clear anything thrown at it with only minor modifications but I published this one just to get opinions about this approach as it's really uncommon. And I thank everyone involved in this discussion ;>My 2cents on the subject - one gets horrible results with this build if he tries to use this build as a c+space build or lacks the patience to execute proper pulls every single time, but if you rather put up effort in it, it's really great in the zones it can take on. And this doesn't mean it's very limited, as I cleared all five zones in Slaver's HM with this build. Only modifications I did was Rift -> Kaolai and Sigs of Rejuvenation changed to Soil & EOE. It's not the best build for Slavers' though. some builds are more mobile so they gain a lot by being able to move faster even if the build kills slower. Hm.
@Wenspire - if one has experience with micro it doesn't slow you down as it's reflex-like. You don't even know you're doing it
Its a necessity for high end areas like say DoA and maybe some pulls in slavers but having to micro every single pull for a general vanquish...RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO that. Most people won't have the patience to.
In fact i can guarantee you 99% of the people on this forum won't run this build simply because of the extra haste involved. They might try it but the extra effort but when you can get similar results with a C-space build is not worth it.
You can go ahead and claim that "experienced" players do flagging on reflex but most people with me included will disagree. Most people here didn't bother flagging since the 3H Discord/Sabway era because they simply didn't need to. What makes you think they will start doing so now.
And again, in the time it takes you to set up the pull, i would have already killed 2 mobs and moved on the next one.
Again the build is not bad, its just not practical for the general mindless PVE.
PS: its generally a good idea to look at a posters "join date" on the forums before labeling them as "inexperienced"
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