Actually, I haven't used Taste of Death in ages mainly because I generally don't use minions and at any rate, the AI is incredibly lazy using that skill unless they drop below 25% health (as opposed to enemies which use it any old chance they get).
In any case, it wasn't there to keep him alive but so he could churn out 4 BiPs in quick succession. Dark Bond by itself is usually enough, and having everything pile up on the necromancer was just a fantastic setup for Panic/Shatter/Splinter/Sand Shards fests.
These days, I just put Never Surrender!, Vampiric Swarm/Unholy Feast or an extra copy of Spirit Light somewhere.
Edit: Not saying that extra personal defense is completely unnecessary (although it doesn't have to come from the BiPper himself.), just a warning about Taste of Death not exactly being the best skill choice. In any case, you're either going to be relying on the BiP necro or you're going to be relying on your energy management skills on each hero, so it's not exactly a bad thing. Think of it this way - why do people usually outsource healing to dedicated healers instead of just asking every hero to bring a self heal (a la Guild Wars 2)? Because dedicated healers are usually better at it (and if your dedicated healer dies, your team is MORE likely to fold than if your BiPPer dies). Same with BiP.
(Overview) Mesmer hero AI - general tips and opinionated comments.
LexTalionis
bhavv
Bip is such a terrible waste of an elite slot, you dont need it all with the three mesmer hero builds I posted earlier.
I d agree that inspiration skills are useless for energy management on human players, but not on heroes. They almost always interrupt perfectly with Power Drain and Leech Signet, the thing you need to do islook for different energy management on each mesmer hero because you cant stack interrupts.
So Power Drain + Leech Sig on the domination bar, and WNWT and Arcane Conundrum on the Illusion bar is a wonderful synergy, then you can use a keystone sig mesmer for your third who never has to worry about energy.
My PVE Mesmer and Monk are pretty much always out of energy, I normally find that GOLE is better than any mesmer skill for E Management on both those classes.
I d agree that inspiration skills are useless for energy management on human players, but not on heroes. They almost always interrupt perfectly with Power Drain and Leech Signet, the thing you need to do islook for different energy management on each mesmer hero because you cant stack interrupts.
So Power Drain + Leech Sig on the domination bar, and WNWT and Arcane Conundrum on the Illusion bar is a wonderful synergy, then you can use a keystone sig mesmer for your third who never has to worry about energy.
My PVE Mesmer and Monk are pretty much always out of energy, I normally find that GOLE is better than any mesmer skill for E Management on both those classes.
AndrewSX
Btw, with a team composed by 4+ casters, deserve a slot (on MM or anyone can go /N) for Blood Ritual is a good back-up choice. So, you don't waste a elite slot, there's not a huge hp sac, and you still have the extra e-management.
Obviously this can't handle the blue bar of the whole team as BiP do, but if everyone carry his own e-management skills, Blood Ritual is perfect as emergency measure(remember that heroes know the e-level of the rest of the team, so when some1 drop the blue bar under 30% will get the BR) when someone is hexed with Shame/Guilty/Depravity/etc, get rupted by P Leak and such.
Obviously this can't handle the blue bar of the whole team as BiP do, but if everyone carry his own e-management skills, Blood Ritual is perfect as emergency measure(remember that heroes know the e-level of the rest of the team, so when some1 drop the blue bar under 30% will get the BR) when someone is hexed with Shame/Guilty/Depravity/etc, get rupted by P Leak and such.
LexTalionis
I did update it, just not the image and I believe I have a very explicit line of text at the bottom of the page that said where the "current build" (not so current but stable) was actually stored on PvX, and that does not include Taste of Death and has not for over a week.
The same could be said for almost all Necromancer elites. There isn't a single Necromancer elite that's arguably stronger than BiP, especially in general situations - simply because they're very specialised or have AI issues (see: Icy Veins on a Restoration necromancer).
I've already expressed my views once before on AotL being an inferior ranger pet if you really are in an area so corpse-light that the 2-3 half dead minions it produces will seriously matter - that doesn't make it any less popular and I certainly don't go on a crusade to tell other people that AotL is a crutch and they should feel bad for using it. I'm not even going to get started on the meh-ness of Jagged Bones (and godforbid you mention FoC). If you personally think it's a bad skill, just don't use it.
Also: The problem with Blood ritual is threefold.
1) Costs 5 energy.
2) 2 second base casting time.
3) Touch range. This is far more annoying than it appears thanks to 2, especially when hero A is chasing hero B which is kiting monster C in some grotesque Benny Hill parody.
The same could be said for almost all Necromancer elites. There isn't a single Necromancer elite that's arguably stronger than BiP, especially in general situations - simply because they're very specialised or have AI issues (see: Icy Veins on a Restoration necromancer).
I've already expressed my views once before on AotL being an inferior ranger pet if you really are in an area so corpse-light that the 2-3 half dead minions it produces will seriously matter - that doesn't make it any less popular and I certainly don't go on a crusade to tell other people that AotL is a crutch and they should feel bad for using it. I'm not even going to get started on the meh-ness of Jagged Bones (and godforbid you mention FoC). If you personally think it's a bad skill, just don't use it.
Also: The problem with Blood ritual is threefold.
1) Costs 5 energy.
2) 2 second base casting time.
3) Touch range. This is far more annoying than it appears thanks to 2, especially when hero A is chasing hero B which is kiting monster C in some grotesque Benny Hill parody.
AndrewSX
BR should be a caster-to-caster touch, no real problems with it.
And if hero 1 is kiting/taking meele damage, he should be busy at running around instead of burning ene/protted or already dead(in HM).
2 sec is annoying, but is the right downside....still good for recover between mobs.
Also, when i use it i keep it disabled and then manually re-able hero to use when i see the fight last long enough to give energy problems. Remember that BR should be used only to counter eventual e-denial than as team e-management, or for fast recovery. So everyone have his own skills to deal with ene.
5energ has never been a problem...is just that Bip is 1, lol.
But using BR over Bip free a elite slot and, why not, a charater slot to not be a necro.
For me works fine.
And if hero 1 is kiting/taking meele damage, he should be busy at running around instead of burning ene/protted or already dead(in HM).
2 sec is annoying, but is the right downside....still good for recover between mobs.
Also, when i use it i keep it disabled and then manually re-able hero to use when i see the fight last long enough to give energy problems. Remember that BR should be used only to counter eventual e-denial than as team e-management, or for fast recovery. So everyone have his own skills to deal with ene.
5energ has never been a problem...is just that Bip is 1, lol.
But using BR over Bip free a elite slot and, why not, a charater slot to not be a necro.
For me works fine.
The Josip
Most people here in the forum seem to mainly meet foes in PvE who ball up so that each and every one is "adjacent". I'm not that lucky. Is anyone willing to share tips on how to do that? I've been testing builds lately in Kurzick forest (Kurzicks are cool, as is harvesting faction), and almost all foes just tend to frequently completely spread up so much that I've been wondering what's the point of E-Surge. Nevertheless, some people take Keystone mesmers to PvE and foes gather in a town hall and fall down like market buyers to suicide bombers.
Really, how do you do it? I know it can be done in some areas, but in general that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Originally Posted by Plutoman
Really, how do you do it? I know it can be done in some areas, but in general that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Originally Posted by "bhavv
Bip is such a terrible waste of an elite slot, you dont need it all with the three mesmer hero builds I posted earlier.
First, I don't like your mesmer builds at all. Second, I don't like the rest of the skillbars either. Third, your illusion mesmer will not have enough energy to spam skills. Fourth, BiP is mathematically good skill, but some builds may not need it. Fifth, I'm wasting my time - you made up your opinion before the discussion started.
LexTalionis
@Outerword: Do you enjoy making me repeat things I've already said?
I generally don't use minions. If an area is corpse-rich and I were to use a MM, I'd get the same amount of support with Animate Bone Minions or Bone Fiend as with AotL because AotL isn't used by the AI properly. This isn't even to bring up the fact that AotL builds bring one other minion skill anyway, which is partially redundant. Is that very difficult to understand? Or does your life and death mysteriously hinge on the +2 Death Magic effect? @AndrewSX: Fine fine, use it then. I'm glad you have more success with touch range spells than I do. Real life is starting to get hectic, so I'm going to take a sabbatical from the forums for a month or two. Later.
The Josip
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Originally Posted by bhavv
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I only play mesmer. It's the only PvE character I have. And I play him well.
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If you are playing a mesmer yourself you would be a lot better off using a Lyssas Aura based build for energy management, heroes really dont need Bip at all if you spec them correctly.
BiP > Lyssa's Aura Quote:
(speaking in general, not directed at you in person)
Elite areas - DoA, UW, FoW. That's 3. Plus Urgoz and Deep if you decide to play with 8-man party. When talking about hero builds in general, why the hell would FoW be a reference for anything? If someone is so dull that he always plays FoW or grinds whatever other 1 area, then that has relevance in threads such as "UW with heroway", and only there. I don't see what makes these elite areas special - it's not like they're impossible to do with heroes so that you will become renowned throughout the world if you finish them - at least FoW is easy. It's not like you can do them faster with heroes than with PuG. And it's not like they bring you more money when playing with heroes because AFK of Glint gives way more than FoW. And it's not like these builds work good elsewhere. For example, the creature I'll quote below has not a single FallBack, which makes the build inferior in general PvE areas of any kind. Moreover, I am appalled by the general attitude of the community which considers the only acceptable build the current FotM. Maybe, just maybe someone doesn't really want to have a minion master. Maybe, just maybe someone doesn't want to have a spirit spammer. And maybe, just maybe someone doesn't want to turn Guild Wars into a poor strategy game where you play by constantly micromanaging - controlling other NPCs (that includes flagging). Take out micromanagement and suddenly all these "good" builds crumble into dust. If this forum came down to "only allowed to post best build for area X" then that's really sad. It doesn't teach anyone anything. And doesn't contribute to fun factor of anyone but devout grinders whose sole goal is to increase their e-peen by saying they can finish FoW 1 minute faster than the others - by using Mercenaries at that. I can see why Upier plays NM. --- The name of this thread is not "speed clear of FoW", the name is "(Overview) Mesmer hero AI - general tips and opinionated comments." I have given feedback on why BiP is good with mesmer heroes (good and viable - mind you - and not necessarily always the best option). It works with all variations of mesmer hero builds (except Keystone). Most importantly, it also aids mesmer player who can now use a different skillbar and play more actively, with a less constrained skillbar. No need for wanding while energy regens, or waiting for foe to cast, hopefully, some easily-interrupted spell so you can PDrain it (if heroes don't interrupt it faster). My recommendation of BiP is based on my long experience of Mesmer class and all variety of builds including melee ones, as well as constant observation of mesmer heroes. But hey, I'm someone who even used FA PvP build in PvE, with Crippling Anguish and Frustration. What do I know.. the final truth has been revealed, we will all be saved if we accept it. And don't try anything new because all that's needed is already in the Book, and what's not in it should not be done. As I'm not religious, this forum seems to have lost usefulness for me and I will not spend more time typing. So I humbly apologize for intrusion. I was reading thread subject without glasses, and it looked like there's "MESMER", "GENERAL TIPS", "OPINIONATED COMMENTS". But I Can See Clearly Now, and it really says: "Ultimate Hardcore Build for All of PvE (meaning: FoW) - All Other Skills and Builds are for Those with Small E-Peen / Learn How to Play". Quote:
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I only tried DOA with heroes twice, the first time being a fail, and the second working for the bit that I had left to do (city). I have no desire to do anymore DoA because I dont need the gemstones or tormented weapons. Its pretty hard not to criticize bip when you give the mad hero AI a spammable skill that sacrifices 33% health. Yes you can alter your other builds to compensate for this, but doesnt that also weaken your group? Quote: |
