What's your stand on GW1? You think Anet's doing a good job?
lambda the great
I say Guild Wars takes the gold trophy. The game has kept me entertained for thousands of hours since it was released. No other MMO has kept my attention or interest for this long since Diablo came out. GW is a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin' classic fantasy game. In my opinion GW is the best MMO out here, nothing comes close to it.
Milennin
I think ArenaNet could have put more people on the projects to get higher quality content out and faster, but since we're not paying them anything to do so, I think it's ok the way they handle it now.
Now, if people were required to pay for the new content, then yes, I would expect higher quality than what they give us now.
As for the content in the link in OP... I wouldn't see that as a valid rant. He's just QQ'ing over getting banned for using inappropiate language in public chat. Then he's QQ'ing over being forced to grind for titles to enjoy the game. C'mon, that's gotta be a joke.
Now, if people were required to pay for the new content, then yes, I would expect higher quality than what they give us now.
As for the content in the link in OP... I wouldn't see that as a valid rant. He's just QQ'ing over getting banned for using inappropiate language in public chat. Then he's QQ'ing over being forced to grind for titles to enjoy the game. C'mon, that's gotta be a joke.
Vezoth
@above, how is that not a valid rant? If you got banned for saying butt when there WAS a chat filter, how would you feel? Obviously that's not right. Honestly banning people over dumb things makes Anet money when you are addicted because you go out and rebuy the game.
Also I played back when proph was the only game, then factions came out and I played that about 6 months.
I loved Proph, I think everything about the game was awesome, then with Factions it was different... it was okay, got use to leveling up faster, but I didn't like how they stopped you from going anywhere you wanted. Also the amount of quest did suck. After quitting for 5 years or so and coming back and going through EoTN and only part of Nightfall I can conclude the game is not as great as i use to remember. I still have fun playing but probably because I still have lots to do yet. I can say the new titles for PvE do suck. I don't want to play RuneScape on Guild Wars... I quit RS for a reason, too much grinding.
Anyways when I read his article, he has many valid points, I wouldn't ignore the fact and just say "he's QQing" because really he's making good points about the game. It would be nice if Anet fixed many things.
Also I played back when proph was the only game, then factions came out and I played that about 6 months.
I loved Proph, I think everything about the game was awesome, then with Factions it was different... it was okay, got use to leveling up faster, but I didn't like how they stopped you from going anywhere you wanted. Also the amount of quest did suck. After quitting for 5 years or so and coming back and going through EoTN and only part of Nightfall I can conclude the game is not as great as i use to remember. I still have fun playing but probably because I still have lots to do yet. I can say the new titles for PvE do suck. I don't want to play RuneScape on Guild Wars... I quit RS for a reason, too much grinding.
Anyways when I read his article, he has many valid points, I wouldn't ignore the fact and just say "he's QQing" because really he's making good points about the game. It would be nice if Anet fixed many things.
Iuris
You don't get banned in GW for saying butt.
However, people who get banned for abusive behaviour will often claim to have been banned for just one wrong word (and forget to mention the half hour of abusive behaviour that preceded that one word).
However, people who get banned for abusive behaviour will often claim to have been banned for just one wrong word (and forget to mention the half hour of abusive behaviour that preceded that one word).
lursey
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Originally Posted by Vezoth
@above, how is that not a valid rant? If you got banned for saying butt when there WAS a chat filter, how would you feel? Obviously that's not right. Honestly banning people over dumb things makes Anet money when you are addicted because you go out and rebuy the game.
Also I played back when proph was the only game, then factions came out and I played that about 6 months. I loved Proph, I think everything about the game was awesome, then with Factions it was different... it was okay, got use to leveling up faster, but I didn't like how they stopped you from going anywhere you wanted. Also the amount of quest did suck. After quitting for 5 years or so and coming back and going through EoTN and only part of Nightfall I can conclude the game is not as great as i use to remember. I still have fun playing but probably because I still have lots to do yet. I can say the new titles for PvE do suck. I don't want to play RuneScape on Guild Wars... I quit RS for a reason, too much grinding. Anyways when I read his article, he has many valid points, I wouldn't ignore the fact and just say "he's QQing" because really he's making good points about the game. It would be nice if Anet fixed many things. |
Milennin
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Originally Posted by Vezoth
@above, how is that not a valid rant? If you got banned for saying butt when there WAS a chat filter, how would you feel? Obviously that's not right. Honestly banning people over dumb things makes Anet money when you are addicted because you go out and rebuy the game.
Also I played back when proph was the only game, then factions came out and I played that about 6 months. I loved Proph, I think everything about the game was awesome, then with Factions it was different... it was okay, got use to leveling up faster, but I didn't like how they stopped you from going anywhere you wanted. Also the amount of quest did suck. After quitting for 5 years or so and coming back and going through EoTN and only part of Nightfall I can conclude the game is not as great as i use to remember. I still have fun playing but probably because I still have lots to do yet. I can say the new titles for PvE do suck. I don't want to play RuneScape on Guild Wars... I quit RS for a reason, too much grinding. Anyways when I read his article, he has many valid points, I wouldn't ignore the fact and just say "he's QQing" because really he's making good points about the game. It would be nice if Anet fixed many things. |
Never had the problem with Factions for not being able to get anywhere, because I just follow the storyline.
And if you have played RuneScape, you know that game is like 10000000000x the grind of what Guild Wars is. In RuneScape you gotta grind to be useful ingame. In Guild Wars it's all optional grind. You can get to rank 7-8 of the EotN reputation titles just vanquishing every area, doing all missions + bonuses and doing all dungeons NM+HM. The final 2-3 ranks don't make or break the game for anyone who just wants to play the game. And even then, they don't take more than a few extra dungeon runs or vanquishes to get.
Maria The Princess
People who cry about grind in GW would never be able to play a real MMORPG....
Grind here is OPTIONAL. The only reasons to grind the titles is to:
1- HOM achievments for GW2:
from what it looks like on the site and from what i know about Anet, the rewards wouldn't be a big deal, just a few aesthetic items. It wouldn't be fair from Anet to give people rewards to old players that could unbalance the new game to the FUTURE new players before the game is even out yet. all you need is 30/50 anyways for the max reward, its not difficult (especially since most people QQing here are signed to the forums since 2005-2006, there should be a fair bit of progress done by now) and its OPTIONAL.
2- PVE skills:
I remember beating everything possible in the game without 1 single PVE skill, before they were out even and before people really knew to use them and what skill comes from what. You can do without them, or with lower rank in them.
3- keep themselves busy
if thats what they choose to keep themselves busy with, they wither chose the wrong thing to do and are upset now or they just want to complain on forums.
If you REALLY want those titles why not complete a HM dungeon book, HM mission books (or NM if HM is too irritating or you dont really care about drops) and cash it in with the right faction? that should keep you entretained enough and no feeling of grind (doing the same area over and over for points)
Grind here is OPTIONAL. The only reasons to grind the titles is to:
1- HOM achievments for GW2:
from what it looks like on the site and from what i know about Anet, the rewards wouldn't be a big deal, just a few aesthetic items. It wouldn't be fair from Anet to give people rewards to old players that could unbalance the new game to the FUTURE new players before the game is even out yet. all you need is 30/50 anyways for the max reward, its not difficult (especially since most people QQing here are signed to the forums since 2005-2006, there should be a fair bit of progress done by now) and its OPTIONAL.
2- PVE skills:
I remember beating everything possible in the game without 1 single PVE skill, before they were out even and before people really knew to use them and what skill comes from what. You can do without them, or with lower rank in them.
3- keep themselves busy
if thats what they choose to keep themselves busy with, they wither chose the wrong thing to do and are upset now or they just want to complain on forums.
If you REALLY want those titles why not complete a HM dungeon book, HM mission books (or NM if HM is too irritating or you dont really care about drops) and cash it in with the right faction? that should keep you entretained enough and no feeling of grind (doing the same area over and over for points)
lursey
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Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
People who cry about grind in GW would never be able to play a real MMORPG....
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anything other than grinding is more spiritual, using your mind to make decision... to learn...to think....
there are more ways to train your fingers stronger in the world, than making decision/think in a mmorpg..
which one should promote more?...I like my brainteaser...than weight lifting my finger...
some may like weightlifting more....there are markets for both of them.
Maria The Princess
most people here know exactly what grind is, they just dont know the different.. degrees of it and how blessed they are that in GW grind is optional, not necessary to advance.
also, completing a dungeon book on HM is more like an adventure then grind. unless you run the same dungeon over and over and over. but then youre not completing any book.
believe it or not but i met plenty of gamers who LOOK for grind games, the kind of games where they kill the same mob that re-spawns for hours non stop. If a game is not grind they get bored when they beat the game and the "credits roll".
In Gw you have an option, grind or not grind.
in most other games, if you dont grind you can never even dream about competing with other players or even play alongside them in end game content. To get to the point where you can participate in end game pve or pvp can take YEARS.
In GW, you dont need to. and im not talking about finger flexing here, im talking about the fact that if you dont want to grind, just dont, you will still be as good as other players.\
Ive done my fair share of grind in Lineage 2 leveling a mage to 85/80/80/80 and a healer to 83/75/75. Trust me on this one, i never want to grind for anything ever again. However that puts a completely fresh perspective on GW and the joke of what you guys call "grind" that is not even necessary to advance and participate in end game
also, completing a dungeon book on HM is more like an adventure then grind. unless you run the same dungeon over and over and over. but then youre not completing any book.
believe it or not but i met plenty of gamers who LOOK for grind games, the kind of games where they kill the same mob that re-spawns for hours non stop. If a game is not grind they get bored when they beat the game and the "credits roll".
In Gw you have an option, grind or not grind.
in most other games, if you dont grind you can never even dream about competing with other players or even play alongside them in end game content. To get to the point where you can participate in end game pve or pvp can take YEARS.
In GW, you dont need to. and im not talking about finger flexing here, im talking about the fact that if you dont want to grind, just dont, you will still be as good as other players.\
Ive done my fair share of grind in Lineage 2 leveling a mage to 85/80/80/80 and a healer to 83/75/75. Trust me on this one, i never want to grind for anything ever again. However that puts a completely fresh perspective on GW and the joke of what you guys call "grind" that is not even necessary to advance and participate in end game
makosi
1) After an hour or so of Fort Aspenwood my feeling is the devs are not doing a good job. They did not properly fix the turtle bug and people are still using leech bots or quitting throughout the match, without penalty, at the expense of the legitimate players.
It doesn't matter how many leech bots are detected and banned, they're gonna come back like cockroaches unless there's a deterrant. The devs put up a log-in announcement about and were banning people for a long period for trading in Local Chat, and this worked well. Why not do the same for abusing low-end PvP too?
2) Community Relations staff are not relating to the community from what I can see. The first time I saw one in a few weeks was yesterday when the game went down and everyone was kicked.
3) Winds of Change was about 20 of the same quest.
4) Skill balance is atrocious; nerfing Fevered Dreams where dervishes were the problem was utter laziness and thoughtlessness.
It doesn't matter how many leech bots are detected and banned, they're gonna come back like cockroaches unless there's a deterrant. The devs put up a log-in announcement about and were banning people for a long period for trading in Local Chat, and this worked well. Why not do the same for abusing low-end PvP too?
2) Community Relations staff are not relating to the community from what I can see. The first time I saw one in a few weeks was yesterday when the game went down and everyone was kicked.
3) Winds of Change was about 20 of the same quest.
4) Skill balance is atrocious; nerfing Fevered Dreams where dervishes were the problem was utter laziness and thoughtlessness.
cataphract
1) Jesus Christ, makosi - you have to be the biggest masochist, LIEK EVARR!!!1 With both luxon and kurzick titles maxed you willingly engage in FA. I can't remember playing that with any seriousness in the past three years and only play it when I need to map. And still the retards chase me even after I announce that I'll be mapping.
2) They're on vacation. It's august. Vacation season.
3) That it was. I'm not happy about those level 28 Ministry dudes either. Why the hell am I still level 20 with 36 maxed titles, full black obsi and black chaos gloves? I really need to buy myself a q9 prot black BDS. Or at the very least, a caster black q9 VS.
4) It's common sense - nerf the Mesmer because the Derv is OP. No, wait... O_O
2) They're on vacation. It's august. Vacation season.
3) That it was. I'm not happy about those level 28 Ministry dudes either. Why the hell am I still level 20 with 36 maxed titles, full black obsi and black chaos gloves? I really need to buy myself a q9 prot black BDS. Or at the very least, a caster black q9 VS.
4) It's common sense - nerf the Mesmer because the Derv is OP. No, wait... O_O
Malice Black
Guildwars is much like the film Groundhog Day. Everything is just endlessy repeated over and over until you go mad.
Only those with an addictive personality still play with any frequency.
Only those with an addictive personality still play with any frequency.
makosi
It's so tragic though when you consider what it was, what it is and what it could have been instead.
The game's uniquity meandered in to the mainstream MMO archetype but it was the Guild Wars essence that was so appealing. Meh - at least there are no guns or engineers corroding the setting.
The game's uniquity meandered in to the mainstream MMO archetype but it was the Guild Wars essence that was so appealing. Meh - at least there are no guns or engineers corroding the setting.
Malice Black
Indeed. I'll give Anet their due though, GW lasted much longer then I ever imagined it would. Granted the surving players are a mix of addicts, whiners and social rejects but it's still going fairly strong 6 years on.
GW will go down as one of the greats of the online gaming world. GW2 has a lot to live up to.
GW will go down as one of the greats of the online gaming world. GW2 has a lot to live up to.
ruksak
90% of the Factions & Nightfall missions are summed up as follows :
Go to town X and talk to a guy .....he tells you to go talk to another guy who tells you to go back to town X and talk to that guy again whom says to go talk to another guy that sends you back to another guy to talk to him who tells you to go back to town X for your reward.
Bingo. Attention deficit disorder FTW!
Eye of the North was a great monotony breaker with the dungeons and somewhat interesting missions. But much of the main chapters content was ad-nauseum.
DISO: Diablo 3
Go to town X and talk to a guy .....he tells you to go talk to another guy who tells you to go back to town X and talk to that guy again whom says to go talk to another guy that sends you back to another guy to talk to him who tells you to go back to town X for your reward.
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Guildwars is much like the film Groundhog Day. Everything is just endlessy repeated over and over until you go mad.
Only those with an addictive personality still play with any frequency. |
Eye of the North was a great monotony breaker with the dungeons and somewhat interesting missions. But much of the main chapters content was ad-nauseum.
DISO: Diablo 3
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by cataphract
2) They're on vacation. It's august. Vacation season.
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Bobby2
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Originally Posted by makosi
It's so tragic though when you consider what it was, what it is and what it could have been instead
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Vezoth
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Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
People who cry about grind in GW would never be able to play a real MMORPG....
Grind here is OPTIONAL. The only reasons to grind the titles is to: 1- HOM achievments for GW2: from what it looks like on the site and from what i know about Anet, the rewards wouldn't be a big deal, just a few aesthetic items. It wouldn't be fair from Anet to give people rewards to old players that could unbalance the new game to the FUTURE new players before the game is even out yet. all you need is 30/50 anyways for the max reward, its not difficult (especially since most people QQing here are signed to the forums since 2005-2006, there should be a fair bit of progress done by now) and its OPTIONAL. 2- PVE skills: I remember beating everything possible in the game without 1 single PVE skill, before they were out even and before people really knew to use them and what skill comes from what. You can do without them, or with lower rank in them. 3- keep themselves busy if thats what they choose to keep themselves busy with, they wither chose the wrong thing to do and are upset now or they just want to complain on forums. If you REALLY want those titles why not complete a HM dungeon book, HM mission books (or NM if HM is too irritating or you dont really care about drops) and cash it in with the right faction? that should keep you entretained enough and no feeling of grind (doing the same area over and over for points) |
Let's look at the Glad title, assuming you get 250 points per day, that's 800 days which is like 2.5 years just for one title putting most of your time into that specific title. Point is.. if you want to COMPLETE the game Guild Wars does have excessive grinds.
lursey
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Originally Posted by Vezoth
You should carefully choose your words, if you think real MMORPG's are about grinding you are wrong. Besides if you are right, I've been there. 300+ days played on RuneScape, nearly every WoW character to 80+ (levels were grinded mostly when it was way longer then currently). You eventually get tired of the LONG grinds and just want to do small grinds. However Guild Wars grinds are small compared to most MMORPG's except titles, PvP title grinds are longer than any 99 skill on RuneScape BY FAR.
Let's look at the Glad title, assuming you get 250 points per day, that's 800 days which is like 2.5 years just for one title putting most of your time into that specific title. Point is.. if you want to COMPLETE the game Guild Wars does have excessive grinds. |
fowlero
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Originally Posted by Vezoth
You should carefully choose your words, if you think real MMORPG's are about grinding you are wrong. Besides if you are right, I've been there. 300+ days played on RuneScape, nearly every WoW character to 80+ (levels were grinded mostly when it was way longer then currently). You eventually get tired of the LONG grinds and just want to do small grinds. However Guild Wars grinds are small compared to most MMORPG's except titles, PvP title grinds are longer than any 99 skill on RuneScape BY FAR.
Let's look at the Glad title, assuming you get 250 points per day, that's 800 days which is like 2.5 years just for one title putting most of your time into that specific title. Point is.. if you want to COMPLETE the game Guild Wars does have excessive grinds. |
PvP titles are not designed to be maxed, and they offer no ingame advantage like (i'm guessing) 99 skill does.
Personally that makes the two non-comparable for me, as the grind offers you no benefit. It's merely a byproduct of skillful play time.
Milennin
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Originally Posted by fowlero
I could be wrong as i never played runescape, but i'm guessing "99 skill" does something useful?
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Guild Wars PvP titles however are truly pointless beside their cosmetic reward, unlike RuneScape skills, where skill levels are required to wield equipment, do quests, craft items, etc with.
There is not a single time in Guild Wars where a player is forced into a grindfest to unlock content or to progress their character. The only times are when you need the Factions requirement in Factions campaign, and that's doable in an hour or two by just completing the quests in the area.
The other is Sunspear reputation in Nightfall, which won't be noticable unless you're the type that rushes through content. Otherwise it's easily achievable through questing or exploring in the area with having Sunspear bounties on.
Missing HB
Well, let's say almost every title is about grindfest though... I can understand some are not the first time you do it on a character, but doing vanquishs/guardians on every characters + reputation titles are a pure grindfest...
In my opinion, the problem is that, basically, if you remove the grindfest titles, there's nothing to do in Guild Wars once you finished the game( concerning PvE)...
That's not especially bad usually, if PvP has something to offer, which is obviously not really the case... It used to be fun to play, but it has turned into a grindfest about who's playing the most to get most points on a bar( because yes, for few months, quantity is better than quality ...)...
In my opinion, the problem is that, basically, if you remove the grindfest titles, there's nothing to do in Guild Wars once you finished the game( concerning PvE)...
That's not especially bad usually, if PvP has something to offer, which is obviously not really the case... It used to be fun to play, but it has turned into a grindfest about who's playing the most to get most points on a bar( because yes, for few months, quantity is better than quality ...)...
Jeydra
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Originally Posted by makosi
4) Skill balance is atrocious; nerfing Fevered Dreams where dervishes were the problem was utter laziness and thoughtlessness.
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I'll tell you what I see the update as. The proposed niche for Dervishes is condition spam. Nerf to FD makes Dervishes viable while keeping condition spam builds balanced. If instead Dervishes had been nerfed directly while keeping FD the way it was, it would be that much harder (if not outright impossible) to keep Dervishes viable.
Of course, you could say "but Dervishes and Assassins and Ritualists and Paragons should've been removed from the game anyway", like all the other GW-was-awesome-Nightfall-killed-it complainers do. Your call.
makosi
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
Explain. If the aim is to keep Dervishes equally viable frontliners as Warriors (which they are, at the moment) then how would you balance things such that they retain a niche?
I'll tell you what I see the update as. The proposed niche for Dervishes is condition spam. Nerf to FD makes Dervishes viable while keeping condition spam builds balanced. If instead Dervishes had been nerfed directly while keeping FD the way it was, it would be that much harder (if not outright impossible) to keep Dervishes viable. Of course, you could say "but Dervishes and Assassins and Ritualists and Paragons should've been removed from the game anyway", like all the other GW-was-awesome-Nightfall-killed-it complainers do. Your call. |
Dervishes were the problem with this build (which most guilds ran - a blaring siren of imbalance) and going after Fevered was the lazy way about it. There are ways of making them viable frontliners without having them roll their foreheads on their keyboards for undeservedly good results.
There were two ways about it: fix the disease or fix the symptom. They chose the easy one. And if it's really hard to make Dervs viable by fixing the core problem, that's neither my problem nor in my control. Test Krewe, anyone?
Let's have some more pets, tonics and costumes in the mean time.
Jeydra
Anyone can make vague statements like "there are ways of making [Dervs] viable frontliners". But can you offer concrete suggestions like "instead of removing Dazed from FD, ANet could have increased the recharge on Avatar of Balthazar" and then provide reasons to believe that such a change would still have left Dervishes viable?
You say there are ways of making them viable frontliners. What are they?
You say there are ways of making them viable frontliners. What are they?
Maria The Princess
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Originally Posted by Vezoth
You should carefully choose your words, if you think real MMORPG's are about grinding you are wrong. Besides if you are right, I've been there. 300+ days played on RuneScape, nearly every WoW character to 80+ (levels were grinded mostly when it was way longer then currently). You eventually get tired of the LONG grinds and just want to do small grinds. However Guild Wars grinds are small compared to most MMORPG's except titles, PvP title grinds are longer than any 99 skill on RuneScape BY FAR.
Let's look at the Glad title, assuming you get 250 points per day, that's 800 days which is like 2.5 years just for one title putting most of your time into that specific title. Point is.. if you want to COMPLETE the game Guild Wars does have excessive grinds. |
1- start a level 1
2- level to mid range
3- join a pve clan (a PvP clan will laugh you of the face of the game if you apply being a level 40, out of the 99 levels to cap )
4- use the pvers (or not, up to you) to get gear from raids and Xp parties etc
5- level to level cap, endless hours, days, weeks, months, years... of using the same 2-3 skills on theoretically the same mob.
6- apply to a PvP clan
7- if accepted, go pve + pvp with them. Most PVP would come to you while you PVE so you still have to kill the same mob. Or spend hours looking for enemies.
7.5- If not accepted, stay in care-bear clan till you can improve your gear
8. when you initiate pvp and target doesnt defend himself, you suffer bad consequences. When you die, you loose Xp or something else that you grind for hours towards.
With that base system found in almost every MMO, grind is inevitable to join the high end content. In GW, you can as soon as you cap the needed elites, which can take up to 2 weeks (of doing missions and quests to get to the town). If someone is grinding in GW and doesnt like grinding, they should look around at all the other stuff they could be doing instead in this game.
Also, 300 days is not much for a grind game since they are designed to keep you playing for years trying to achieve the barely achievable, a perfect character withy perfect gear and skills.
In GW, you are given all that when you get out of newbie areas (desert, kaieng, consulate docks). You are lvl caped, you have max gear, you only have to work on some elite skill captures but you easily get them as you advance, will take 1 week to get the basic elites needed. You don't spend years getting to lvl 83 to get the ONE skill that makes your class needed in a PvP clan and on a siege field. At level 83, it takes about 20 regular mob kills to get 0.01%.
Reikai
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Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
I believe we are all adults here and I don't have to "knit-pick proof" my posts, most people here understand simple analogies and comparisons. ive never played Runescape, nor do i intend to. However I played other MMORPGS, and all coincidentally (?) revolved around:
1- start a level 1 2- level to mid range 3- join a pve clan (a PvP clan will laugh you of the face of the game if you apply being a level 40, out of the 99 levels to cap ) 4- use the pvers (or not, up to you) to get gear from raids and Xp parties etc 5- level to level cap, endless hours, days, weeks, months, years... of using the same 2-3 skills on theoretically the same mob. 6- apply to a PvP clan 7- if accepted, go pve + pvp with them. Most PVP would come to you while you PVE so you still have to kill the same mob. Or spend hours looking for enemies. 7.5- If not accepted, stay in care-bear clan till you can improve your gear 8. when you initiate pvp and target doesnt defend himself, you suffer bad consequences. When you die, you loose Xp or something else that you grind for hours towards. With that base system found in almost every MMO, grind is inevitable to join the high end content. In GW, you can as soon as you cap the needed elites, which can take up to 2 weeks (of doing missions and quests to get to the town). If someone is grinding in GW and doesnt like grinding, they should look around at all the other stuff they could be doing instead in this game. Also, 300 days is not much for a grind game since they are designed to keep you playing for years trying to achieve the barely achievable, a perfect character withy perfect gear and skills. In GW, you are given all that when you get out of newbie areas (desert, kaieng, consulate docks). You are lvl caped, you have max gear, you only have to work on some elite skill captures but you easily get them as you advance, will take 1 week to get the basic elites needed. You don't spend years getting to lvl 83 to get the ONE skill that makes your class needed in a PvP clan and on a siege field. At level 83, it takes about 20 regular mob kills to get 0.01%. |
Vezoth is saying that in order to get 100% completion of everything possible in game, alot of grinding is required.
Both are true and factual statements.
While you are right in saying "Most/All grind in this game is optional," as in its not absolutely necessary to do in order to put one's self on an equal footing, numbers-wise, to other players (save PvE skills.) in order to "100%'ing" the game is generally not possible without grind.
Cryshal
I didn't find serious grind until the last primary quests in Eye of the North, before the final quests. I did finish the Asura line, but the Dwarf and Ebon Vanguard are too hard for solo, at least for me. I spent hours on both of those quests, trying different heroes and skill builds.
I'm still looking forward to Guild Wars 2 because I think the gameplay will be different.
I'm still looking forward to Guild Wars 2 because I think the gameplay will be different.
Arduin
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Originally Posted by Cryshal
I didn't find serious grind until the last primary quests in Eye of the North, before the final quests. I did finish the Asura line, but the Dwarf and Ebon Vanguard are too hard for solo, at least for me. I spent hours on both of those quests, trying different heroes and skill builds.
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Swingline
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Originally Posted by Arduin
Are you seriously calling failing a quest, improving your strategy and then finally succeeding (aka challenging content) a grind?
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MithranArkanere
But there are standards when it comes to what is grind 'generally speaking'.
The most basic definition would be "Boring and repetitive gameplay".
But that depends in each player. Not everyone gets bored with the same things.
If I had to come up with a more specific definition that works for most people, it would be something like "to repeat the same thing again and again just to make certain numeric values go up, because them being high offers a direct or indirect advantage in combat".
So if there's no plot advancement, and you do always the same exact thing, and all you get from it is one or more numeric values in your character go up, and those numbers being high means your character may be better in combat, then that's grind.
You are no longer playing o have fun, you are spending time in the game without playing, so you can play later.
In GW I only see that when it comes to raising reputation titles. Increasing them to the max doesn't give that much of an advantage while using PvE skills compared to the lower ranks, but when it comes to the harder areas every little bit helps, and because of that some people feel compelled to raise those titles to the max.
Some people do enjoy this kind of grind. Why is that? Beats me.
The most basic definition would be "Boring and repetitive gameplay".
But that depends in each player. Not everyone gets bored with the same things.
If I had to come up with a more specific definition that works for most people, it would be something like "to repeat the same thing again and again just to make certain numeric values go up, because them being high offers a direct or indirect advantage in combat".
So if there's no plot advancement, and you do always the same exact thing, and all you get from it is one or more numeric values in your character go up, and those numbers being high means your character may be better in combat, then that's grind.
You are no longer playing o have fun, you are spending time in the game without playing, so you can play later.
In GW I only see that when it comes to raising reputation titles. Increasing them to the max doesn't give that much of an advantage while using PvE skills compared to the lower ranks, but when it comes to the harder areas every little bit helps, and because of that some people feel compelled to raise those titles to the max.
Some people do enjoy this kind of grind. Why is that? Beats me.
Draco4011
I find it amazing that anet has supported this game for so long and there isnt even any monthly fees. The only glaring problem I have with this game is some classes arent strong enough for hard mode PvE and get discriminated out of pugs. Notably Rangers, Elementalists, and Dervishes. I dont play much PvP so i dont know how things are there.
WinterSnowblind
I enjoyed GW a lot, but I can definitely see why they chose to give it up (for the most part) and move onto GW2. My biggest problem is definitely with the classes and skills system, it is completely impossible for certain classes to find groups, because they just aren't necessary for missions and as a mainly solo player, I don't like having to constantly manage my Heroes. I feel like I've spent more time figuring out the correct builds for my heroes than I have for my actual character, who as a warrior, does very little during the actual combat anyway.
Ursan Blessing was almost a good thing, because it put everyone back on an equal footing, it didn't matter what class someone was or what build they were using, you could bring anyone along and everyone could help out. That's the kind of attitude I'd like to see in GW2 - everyone can come, and everyone can help out (though obviously not with such a restricted set of skills).
I'm very grateful they've kept the game going for so long with updates and new quests, etc. I've just caught up with the Winds of Change line, and while killing all the afflicted through the areas was a bit tedious, it is great just to have new things to do and the story is pretty interesting, even if the writing isn't the best ever.
Ursan Blessing was almost a good thing, because it put everyone back on an equal footing, it didn't matter what class someone was or what build they were using, you could bring anyone along and everyone could help out. That's the kind of attitude I'd like to see in GW2 - everyone can come, and everyone can help out (though obviously not with such a restricted set of skills).
I'm very grateful they've kept the game going for so long with updates and new quests, etc. I've just caught up with the Winds of Change line, and while killing all the afflicted through the areas was a bit tedious, it is great just to have new things to do and the story is pretty interesting, even if the writing isn't the best ever.
Zebideedee
The only thing I don't like is how a lot of the titles are character based. This is preventing me from playing other professions for the most part, each time I try other professions something at the back of my mind says "Whats the point, stick to your main!"
Lanier
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Originally Posted by Zebideedee
The only thing I don't like is how a lot of the titles are character based. This is preventing me from playing other professions for the most part, each time I try other professions something at the back of my mind says "Whats the point, stick to your main!"
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I also think that skill balance has completely fallen apart (in PvE). Honestly, the difference in power between the top of the scale (rits and necros) and the bottom (rangers and paragons) is massive. Unfortunately, anet isn't willing to introduce some much-needed nerfs to the top professions, and this in itself is hurting the game. I know that complete skill balance is nearly impossible due to the sheer number of skills in the game, but there are some easy steps that anet could take to at least improve skill balance somewhat, and they are proving to us right now that they are unwilling to do so. I wish they would just understand that skill balance needs to be "balanced" - it needs to include both nerfs to the OP skills and buffs to the underpowered skills.
MithranArkanere
Luckily, all titles will be account-based in GW2.
I wouldn't mind if that was changed for GW1.
I'd make the only things character based plot advancement, quests (excepting the PvP ones), heroes unlocked, skills learned and outposts visited, and everything else account-wide, including titles and customized items.
I wouldn't mind if that was changed for GW1.
I'd make the only things character based plot advancement, quests (excepting the PvP ones), heroes unlocked, skills learned and outposts visited, and everything else account-wide, including titles and customized items.
Swingline
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Luckily, all titles will be account-based in GW2.
I wouldn't mind if that was changed for GW1. I'd make the only things character based plot advancement, quests (excepting the PvP ones), heroes unlocked, skills learned and outposts visited, and everything else account-wide, including titles and customized items. |
DiogoSilva
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Originally Posted by Lanier
I also think that skill balance has completely fallen apart (in PvE). Honestly, the difference in power between the top of the scale (rits and necros) and the bottom (rangers and paragons) is massive. Unfortunately, anet isn't willing to introduce some much-needed nerfs to the top professions, and this in itself is hurting the game. I know that complete skill balance is nearly impossible due to the sheer number of skills in the game, but there are some easy steps that anet could take to at least improve skill balance somewhat, and they are proving to us right now that they are unwilling to do so. I wish they would just understand that skill balance needs to be "balanced" - it needs to include both nerfs to the OP skills and buffs to the underpowered skills.
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I hope that after WoC and before the next big project (Nightfall beyond?) they take some 2-3 months making all classes equally fair for PvE. For many people, having their main profession nearly useless is far more game-breaking than the lack of new content, IMO. At least for me.
In fact, I even fear to start WoC in the first place (an elementalist is my main, and that's the one character I want to finish WoC with) as I'll probably get bored to death watching my heroes do everything for me while I... do what? AP call and spam assassins? Or go pseudo spirit spammer? Or act like like a pseudo prots monk? I didn't chose an elementalist for this.
mage767
After 4 Gwamms, I think I have grinded the game (GW1) enough. Taking a massive break now...one month done.
MithranArkanere
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Originally Posted by Swingline
I would support customized items but we already have enough account wide titles, I could see the rep titles becoming account wide though just because they feel like a grind to me.
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After all, achievements have been most of the account-wide for all games.