Update - Friday, July 22, 2011

Straight from Wiki:

Skill Changes

Shield Guardian Shield Guardian: increased casting time to 1 second; increased recharge to 25 seconds [sic]; changed functionality to: "For 1...3...4 seconds, all party members in earshot have a 75% chance to block attacks. If an attack is blocked, all allies in earshot are healed for 10...34...40 Health and Shield Guardian ends."

[edit] Feature Changes

Updated Mesmers in Alliance Battles and Fort Aspenwood to use the PvP version of Mind Wrack.


Interesting change, was it due to ER Bonders? I can't think of any other reason

no

it's like an aegis revert

I was just trying out Shield Guardian yesterday on a PvE N/Mo hero, then someone in my guild tells me it got changed.

So much for trying!

I like this Shield Guardian. Before it was obviously useless except as a minimal-recharge spell for ER to spam. Now its a pressure skill that scales better the more distributed the pressure is. Thoughts:

PvP: Potentially useful. If you have just two characters hit, its a PwK on a shorter recharge. In addition, its a 5s/20r prot that can be saved as an anti-target switch for melee if you time it well.

PvE: Really liking it here. The biggest imbalances in general PvE now can be summed up fairly simply: spirits and minions, which soak up so much damage that you just don't give a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO anymore. Shield Guardian plays nicely into a balanced play that emphasizes neither tank-n-spank nor summoning infinite hordes, but scales up remarkably as you have enemies raging everywhere.

EDIT: wait, heals ALL ALLIES? If that only works on minions (like AoB) thats great and makes monks potentially back on top in party healing. If it works on spirits, thats just flat out insane. Testing now.

Shield Guardian was obviously nerfed due to elly prot builds, and I absolutely hate the new version.

It affects me very much because I have been using shield guardian all the time for a very very long time now.

Its yet another terrible change for PVE, a skill that was completely unused by anything other than the E/Mo build, and now made completely useless for anything in PVE.

It doesnt even affect PVP in the slightest because it isnt a skill that was ever used there. No one is still going to use the new version in either PVE or PVP.

The duration on the new version is far too short for it to be useful, it will be completely wasted on most casts because it will have expired before being triggered.

Oy! Chthon really does not like this....

so instead of nerfing dervs, they are buffing skills to keep up with them?

weird...

Note: if one party member blocks, it only ends on that party member. 40 HP per block * 8 party members = 320 health Heal Party for only 10e best case. PvP you will almost certainly get 2 hits, 3 hits isn't unlikely and 4 hits could happen. PvE, lol heals RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing everywhere.

It lasts 3 seconds on a 20s recharge, its not going to give any kind of heals everywhere as you imagine.

The previous version actually healed a lot better than this one does and was far from useless in PVE, you would know that if you used it right.

NO ONE is going to use the new Aegis in either PVE or PVP. It doesnt matter how nice you try and make it sound on paper, its a skill that will now be used far less than it was before.

I hate to point this out, but there is this thing called +20% equipment, and reaching the 4s breakpoint isn't too hard though it is a bit troublesome.

The previous version was flat out useless for anything other than ER, which is a build that exists for nothing other than a pity bone that was thrown to eles due to the power disparity between them and everything else in the game when it comes to damage.

In PvE, I have 3 people with fairly high prot in my usual build (1 monk, 2 N/mos). Even a ~100 HP every 7 seconds is pretty damn nice, this skill can fit right in.

Can confirm that it works on minions just fine (totally imba for those N/mo builds), but not on spirits (the imbaness would be ridiculous if it kept up defensive spirits).

correct me if im wrong, but i think the +20% only applies to you, and not too party members, like with order of pain

but i still think the skill is worth bringing, if only on a secondary monk like an mm

+20% enchantments should work on all enchantments cast, including stuff like OoP. If it isn't then its a bug. It does work on Shield Guardian.

The only prot builds I use in PVE are either Ether Renewal elly, or Soul Twisting rit.

I have no need to spec my monk, or monk heroes to prot when they handle healing better, the only thing I use monks for anymore in PVE is UA.

Secondary prot builds already have Aegis and Prot Spirit to use, both of which are still superior to the new shield guardian.

There are plenty more spells in the game that are completely unused by anyone altogether, I cant see why Anet would pick shield guardian in particular to change like this over any other such spell.

Shield Guardian at least worked brilliantly for elementalists, and that is the only reason I can see why the skill would get changed like this.

Umm, its not a prot, its a heal, k? Anything that lets you simultaneously heal AND prot effectively with the same line is a game-changing skill.

Think of it as Seed of Life in the prot line. This will be ridiculous in AP monk builds that combine the two, and more than decent in many others.

The long recharge is what kills the usefulness of this skill.

This skill is a remake of Aegis.

I Find it actually better now, It's almost a Anti-Melee skill for monks
to use.
But the thing is, I've never seen any monk builds with it.
I've only seen Aegis as the main Blocking - Protection Skill.

I cant see why anyone would want to run an AP monk build just for this skill, there are too many better monk elites that should be used instead. Its still also 10 energy, thats a lot for a monk to normally be using in PVE without Gole.

... You DO realize that AP monks are essentially ER prot eles that simply take a slightly higher mediocrum of skill to run than "cast ER on recharge", right?

From what I've been using it with so far the skill is pretty lackluster. Better ways to counter a physical heavy area with conditions, summons, and many other skills. Protection has so many other better goodies for monks and minions are suppose to die at some point in bomber builds.

I think someone here is getting a bit too excited.

Bomber builds have always sucked compared to buffed MM builds. Now the MM can carry decent party healing as well? Cool with me. Not like being the bitch of ER was anything noteworthy before.

What the heck is a buffed MM?

Bone fiends buffed with OoU and EBSoH. Spits out the highest sustained DPS in the game.

I have to ask, has anyone in this thread actually played guild wars? I think I'm on guild wars guru but who knows whats going on.

Builds I've seen use Healing Prayers if /Mo since you're losing health with ranged minions generally around and skills that work with them, not Protection Prayers or something like Shield Guardian.

AP takes monks in the right direction, no doubt, but it still does not compare with ER. Can't do ProtBond, only PS. Can't spam PS wildly, even under the best circumstances. More fragile -- subject to stripping (and you have no cover hexes) and timeout (and you have no damage-dealing ability to accelerate the kill). No spot heal that compares with Infuse.

The things that AP monks *do* have going for them are frequent SoL and self-chaining Aegis. This tends to go up that alley, except (1) it's probably competing with Aegis for a slot in most builds, and probably going to lose, and (2) it's got a horrendous, horrendous recharge that's going to make it a dead slot if AP misses. While you can build offensive casters to just endure the downtime if AP misses, people die if your monk build stops working for more than a couple seconds.

I find it really hard to imagine ever using this skill for anything ever again. Seems like a nerf to ER and nothing else.

I've never seen such a build advised or recommended by anyone else to run, either in game or on these forums, nor would I personally want to want to waste my monks elite slot on AP.

I cannot see anything good about wasting two skill slots on AP + Shield Guardian on a monk when there are so many better ways to be playing the class.

So instead of the old Shield Guardian being a staple and very useful spell on the ER prot build, it may now get used on a necro hero by a few people. And even in that case, Aegis is still better.

If your party is actually taking so much AoE damage in PVE that shield guardian would require casting, that damage is most likely coming from casters and the block is rarely going to be triggered if the enemy is casting spells.

If your party is taking physical damage, the Aegis still makes a lot more sense than Shield Guardian does.

AP fails if AP misses is kind of universal for any build, likewise for party dies if heal stops working. Thats what AP (monk especially) requires more skill than facerolling on the keyboard that I could teach a 5 year old to do.

The point is that (non-smite) monks have essentially 0 use anywhere in guild wars thanks to ER. Anything that can be made usable for them and that nerfs ER (though really, its pretty damn minor) at the same time is an improvement. This is a good, balanced skill. The lack of immediate usage in the wake of holyRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOthatsOP builds shouldn't reflect badly on it. The fact that someone can come into this thread and have the gall to pretend that ER getting a slight hit, in contrast to a skill becoming halfway usable to really nice on actual monks, is a bad thing really amazes me.

might see some daylight in gvg when pushing into lord pits, however still to weak to warrant it for much use.

Or maybe you dont know how to play a monk?

Monks are the best class to use in JQ with a smiter / heal hybrid. RoJ monks deal more damage in HM than any Elementalist nuke build can. Monks can still heal all the way through the game, and are still needed as healers in elite areas such as FoW and DoA.

I had no problem completing WiK on my monk. Prior to BFLA's difficulty being nerfed, I breezed through the mission without a single party wipe with 2 UA monk heroes and 4 human players.

In comparison to that, Elly damage has 0 use anywhere in HM GW thanks to Mesmers, Rits, Necros, and oh ... Monks as well.

Also, ER ellys never put any kind of a dent in the monks desirability as the party healer. Necros already did that ever since factions was released. People play their ellys as ER protters because their damage output is crap.

It's not true though. They get a pass in the higher end SCs because nothing else can maintain Protective Bond the way they can (hello Burning Speed). For normal teams it's a very rare build with PuGs almost universally not recognizing E/Mo equals healer and asking where the monks are. ER didn't get hurt by this and the new Shield Guardian isn't that great.

PvP/smiting and false

I should go dig out a screenshot of me vanquishing areas with no healing other than Orison, cause Orison is pretty damn good.

Yeah, Eles are actually balanced in PvE HM. What a shame. Please Anet, why can't my ele asplode mobs in .5s? :worldslongesteyeroll:

Because if pugs are dumb enough to want them, they have to be OK, amirite?

Since when do people actually determine a classes usability in GW based on whether pugs want them or not?

I've never had a problem getting into FoW SC pug groups on my monk, unless of course they already had one, whereas elementalists are actually never wanted for FoW. E/Mo prot bonder is a specific build for UW only, in normal PVE most people who play elly wont run the bonder bar, but a normal prot bar which used to include shield guardian, and most pugs who see that bar absolutely wouldnt want it.

If you actually rolled your AP / Shield Guardian build, do you think that will make you more desirable to a pug group than if you simply had WoH?

Another reason why Elly and Necro healers became so popular in groups is because monks are always hard to find. Back when I used to pug before the 7 hero update, people were stood around for ages looking for a MONK. I would PM the leader and ask if a resto elly was ok for them (using prism back then), and they would always let me in because they didnt want to wait around any longer.

The same situation happened in my alliance EOTN dungeon runs. They would find themselves full with every class except for a monk, so I would offer to heal with my elly instead.

And thats how I actually got into using my elly as a healer, because monks were never around to fill that role so I had to do it.

Your issue seems entirely to be that you are glad over a minor nerf to the elly prot build, and even though it doesnt help monks any more in anyway, you are trying to find ways to overcompensate and make it sound like the new shield guardian will actually be useful for monks. It really wont be, the only thing it may get used on now is a necro hero.

PvE players come crying because they made a useless skill useful.

It wasnt useless for me before, it worked very well on my PVE build which I used 95% of the time thanks.

I really dont understand what your issue is tbh or what you are trying to say.

All groups need healers in GW. It doesnt matter if its a pug, guild group, or a hero group, you need healers to complete the content.

If theres no monk around, then pugs may be willing to take an elly or a necro healer. Even better, people nowadays simply choose to use heroes instead of having to spend ages forming a group.

The requirement for healers in every group, combined with the severe lack of (decent) monks in PVE is what created the desirability for other classes to heal in PVE. In all honesty, most monks I have played with were absolutely terrible, and I could actually heal far better than the majority on monk players in PVE on either a mesmer or an assassin. That doesnt make either of those classes better or more desirable than the monk, its entirely based on how you play them.

No they absolutely arent, and they never have been. See the post below.

Elementalists are probably the worst profession for HM PvE (except ER Protter). Even if you nerfed every single OP stuff there is, elementalists would still be the worst profession for HM PvE. Warrior, dervishes, monks are balanced for that mode of the game. Mesmers, necros and rits are OP. Eles suck, and that's the best thing they can do with their damaging skills - to suck. They can go support and be bad versions of mesmers, and still do better compared to what they are supposed to do.

Ok, so heres a great way to imagine how useful elly skills are in PVE:

How many non elementalist classes would rather choose to play a secondary elementalist instead of using skills from their primary profession?

If ellys are so great, balanced, and viable for HM then why not run searing flames and meteor shower on your monk and complete a HM dungeon book like ellys are having to do with monk skills?

For what it's worth, I've found that playing my Ele (with heroes) is faster and safer than playing my Warrior (with heroes). AP is pretty damn good.

Protbond builds in PvE have to switch to RoF. Yawn.

AP isnt even an elly skill, hence doesnt determine whether ellys are balanced for HM or not.

Also the build that used shield guardian isnt a protbond build. The protbond build uses burning speed, which is absolutely terrible for any other role, so I suppose that Anet ought to 'nerf' that ones current use in PVE as well.

The protbond build is exclusive to UWSC only. It isnt a build that is commonly used elsewhere in PVE.

To clear up any further confusion, this is UWSC Emo prot bond:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiQLa71Q12M

And this is the PVE Emo prot variant with the old Shield Guardian and no bonding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vF0uouZSls

If you weren't spamming it for Protbond I don't understand what Shield Guardian was doing on your bar. *shrug*

The AoE heal every second was very nice. The old shield guardian was a RoF with a fixed AoE heal that didnt depend on how much damage was reduced. It was very reliable and effective on builds with the energy to use it.

Usually when I have agro, I spam it on myself and stand near my heroes for mass heals. It was very powerful, like a 1/4 cast, 1s recharge heal party.

You cant even maintain prot bond on several party members with shield guardian. I tried it and it doesnt work. Only burning speed works for prot bond because it has an instant recharge. RoF with its 2s recharge would also never work for maintaining prot bond on several party members.

The UWSC Protbond build has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue behind this skill change, as many people who play these builds have realized the only obvious reason why it would be changed would be due to its use on the PVE Emo prot build, and the new version isnt any better at all for PVE, or for monks anyway.

uh

this was specifically a pvp update

or you might just be the biggest troll in riverside and i just got baited hard