Team Build: Dillway+Variants

Thanks for your reply, Pluto!

If I should come up with something decent, I'll definitely will share it with you.

If Vloxen works with HM, would SoO as well?

How is the usage of RoJ by the smite here? In my experience with them in the past, I found that they only seem to place it well when I ran Earth Shaker or yeti smash+daggers to keep groups down so it hits for at least 3-4s; they never seem to work well for me when running a caster or non-kd capable bar.

which would you try running with a imbagon as player? just wondering if you would need the st rit with it

In general gameplay, as long as the incoming dmg is armor ignoring and you can safely build adren and shout, the ST is overkill. This is true for all teams, so i guess is the same here...

Great team, tried this and finally threw my hated minions and spirit heroes away. The team generally performs very well (I haven't seen such balanced team ever, everything dies super fast and the survivability is great as well) and is a good team for us lazyasses who don't want to micro anything. I only have problems with 2 spells:
- Armor of Unfeeling - Xandra just can't use it well and I can't be bothered to micro it Been playing with Dulled Weapons instead, while it presses Xandra's energy, the lower damage received for your party makes for it. Think it could be added as a possible substitute?
- Shared Burden. I just don't feel it does enough for the price of an elite skills slot. Psychic Instability is IMHO better for defense. Anyway, this team has enough defense I can run Energy Surge instead, even in Elite areas.

So far, there have been just 2 areas I could't beat with Dillway - Slaver's Exile HM (the fire ele level) and Foundry NM. Even with Panic, Shelter, target locking and interrupts, it seems to me that multiple fire eles just beat the hell out of this team. You run DoA with this, have any tips for Foundry? I seriously think I'll try Ward Against Harm for my next DoA run (primary Mesmer so without SY!, I think meelee character with SY! could just stomp through everything with this build)
For those that didn't try Dillway - it's worth it. No minions, no spirits (well, 2 of them) and still doing fantastic job

Foundry.. is difficult. I'll try to run through tactics tomorrow if I can, been busy with school (it's the time of the first tests). I haven't actually done SE HM, but that's obviously going to be a difficult elite area to just fly through. NM should be fine enough though, there's probably a few changes you could make to go through SE HM. A quick tip on foundry is one, micro shared burden onto the middle of a group, and two, in any situation where you can pull, the dryder's ranged attacks are longer than spell ranges, so pulling via a dream rider or a longbow can mean they never cast spells before balling trying to attack you (and thus panic + SB + CoF = death).

As far as standard play goes - I'm, well, planning on trying some extreme offensive versions with 3 copies of e-surge, or at least 2 and an ineptitude, along with dual RoJ/dual invoke. For a more standard play to bring in more offense, E-Surge is an entirely viable substitute. Dulled Weapons for AoF is fine, too, I prefer to always have AoF, but bear in mind, I'm very much a proponent of experimentation. I posted these up to share, not tell everyone to play my way, so feel entirely free to make substitutions as you feel. In time, I may compile them, but as of yet, I haven't. May/may not put it on gwpvx.

Shared Burden in itself is extremely useful in the DoA, because in a way, it turns off HM, or halves the NM. Half attack speed = half damage = twice the shelter life (and it stacks with blinds from ineptitude), half spells means the same (and means more interrupts going through), and half speed means the entire team can kite as they please. Also on an area range? It's pretty awesome, particularly with dryders, titans of most kinds, and the big spawns of dementia titans. It's a toss-up, because it still may be the first mesmer elite I'd drop, but it's pretty epic defensively. PI lacks the oomph against any sort of melee, and sometimes doesn't trigger considering the other interrupts (though I entirely agree, it's a pretty awesome elite).

Anyways, I'll try to give more on the DoA later, my mind's a bit far from GW :P In the meantime, check out the DoA thread. ^^ (btw, I run it as an ele, typically just invoke - it takes some micro, but not any extensive player efforts, I don't even use most PvE skills).

Just curious how fast is this build in general play? For example how fast does it take to clear Tahnnakai Temple (or Raisu)? You've given up on offensive spirits, so I'm honestly surprised you can clear Vloxen's HM with an empty player bar ... but then again maybe that's just what PvE is like these days.

Otherwise your attribute spreads can definitely be improved, e.g. Invoke Eles should run 9 Command instead of 10, and Superior runes should always go to the highest specced attribute.

Two responses - I've no idea on the clear time for Raisu or anything like that, I'd imagine it'd be a fairly standard time, depending on how well I play more than anything. The benefits come from having an extremely stable team along with significant firepower that most teams tend to lack. However, once I finish a bit more of Fallout 3... I'll come back and revisit those areas for some standard times.

As far as Vloxen's goes, well, PvE is in an interesting state, that's for sure. Honestly, I disliked the impression that spirits (and to a lesser extent minions) are the only way to go for any type of relatively high-end content, which was why I started this project.

Attributes, well, 9 versus 10 command is a good observation. I wasn't aware the breakpoint was at 9 for Fall Back. For the superior runes, it makes much less of a difference, for the runes can go wherever as long as you have the 14/13 split, or approximately so. I use illusion runes over domination for the price. However, if you prefer to run a 16/11 split, it's also perfectly viable - I tend to only do that for the dom mesmer, though. I wouldn't be one to say it's all set in stone.

I'll make some edits a bit in the future. Busy day today, though.

You can run the 14/13 split with 11+2+1 Illusion and 11+2 Domination, saving you some health - for efficient spread of your attributes, don't put a Superior rune on a non-headpiece (unless you're using double Superiors).

Huh. I appreciate that, I never actually noticed that - it's a 5hp difference, so not an extreme difference, but a a difference nonetheless. I'll update that when I get the chance. ^^ Might save a bit of gold for anyone interested, too.. Though speccing out FC, DF, e-storage, and SR minor runes already sets someone back, along with vigors. :P

I always use sup's on headpieces, but I didn't stop to think that I could achieve the split with majors. Figures, eh.

Hey I'm trying out your core dillway team, but I'm having issues with Ravenheart Gloom. I can't seem to get past the waves of Tormentors for "To the Rescue!". Any tips or advice?

First - NM or HM?

Typically what I do is tank the damage on it's own, using monk protects from the E/Mo to survive. Generally on it's own it's plenty to keep me alive. I keep the heroes flagged back and pull them forward as the enemies get bottled up. Targeting the monks / mesmers / ele's in that order and if you still have troubles, micro shared burden and panic onto center mobs.

Depending on how many times you've tried it, it could be just a fluke run or a bit more micro necessary (I know, it's a team aimed at not having much micro, but it's also an elite area) - I usually clear Gloom in <20 minutes, and rarely fail (if I fail, it's generally mid-foundry, or mid-veil). Let me know if you have any more troubles, and if you can, be more specific! I can give better tips/advice if I know what's going wrong.

Hey thanks for replying. I'm doing NM for now. I'm running a warrior (100b or enduring scythe) and I've only been doing Ravengloom a handful of times. I've tried staying in that little area and I've also tried going out in the open. I seem to last a little longer while out in the open, but they eventually will overwhelm me. I'm going to try and craft some weapons for them. Right now they're not using anything special, so maybe that will help?

It very well could. ^^ I'm not a melee player, so I don't know that much on how that works, however, generally I have the team flagged back, and as the mobs get to be a bit much, I unflag them, hopefully having the enemies balled up attacking me, while my team comes in to hit with AoE.

You might try micro'ing prot spirit and spirit bond onto you - it might make a difference Otherwise, just equipping some weapons should help. When I first tried, I didn't use anything special, but I'm also a ranged attacker through spells, so being up close may make a difference. Did you try my melee version? It may work fairly well in gloom NM, and may help you drop them fast enough to make the difference - again though, I'm not exactly a melee player! My melee version is theory-crafted, not tested.

I've tried this team build to try and get through Foundry NM and kill The Fury but I must be doing something basically wrong because I have three times wiped in the second room. Prior to that I used Primitiveworker's build as shown here:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/d...472576p12.html

With this I got all the way to The Fury without any major problems and then The Fury and his sidekicks totally kicked my ass, partly because I didn't prepare for them popping up.

I know Dillway has been used successfully so I must need to change my tactics. It seems as if the problem is with Shelter not being maintained. Do you need to micro it always? Any suggestions gratefully received.

Well, I really do need to get on that DoA write-up..

When you have troubles, the best bet is to add on a bit of micro - flagging is the easiest start. The second and third rooms take a bit of thought.

I'll put up screens as soon as I'm able - however, what I do in the second room is flag a line of mesmers, and put the backline behind them. What this means is as you walk into the room, and look directly across to the farthest point (so basically as you walk in straight, turn a little to the right), flag a line across the room (about nearby distance from each other) and put the backline in the corner you've walked in from. Then, you walk in towards the center, and as the spawns pop up, the mesmers are separated from each other, but all within distance to hit the spawns, while the backline is safe. When the second spawn hits, you may or may not still be flagged at this point, you may have to unflag to catch stragglers - hit off shared burden onto the middle, and panic if you can also. Making sure shelter is up before the second spawn hits is probably good, too.

For the third room, follow the right wall until you get to the very corner of it - you have to pause midway to let patrols pass after the spawn (and once in a while, a bad spawn happens). The tricky part comes after, as you have to watch the patrols to get a feel for them and pull them so you fight while others are away - pulling the rage and anguish titans together is pretty easy to do accidentally.

For the fourth room, stay in the back, towards the end of spawns, reflag everything towards the back, so you can be ready and pull the next groups. For the fifth, the first couple groups can be pulled onto the right side of the big pillar, constricting them all in one spot for AoE.

For the Fury, I pull them into the tunnel from where the black beast comes from, pulling them around the corner into a tight ball - if I have issues, typically running with the heroes to the very back of the tunnel loses aggro. That's tricky because sometimes the healers don't go down, which can be a pain.

Hope this helps! I'll try (no promises on time) to get a full write-up of the DoA. While certain areas don't need micro, the foundry is one that I would plan on using some micro to help it go smoothly. I'm also going to see about alternative builds that may even be better for the DoA.. Experimentation and creativity is never done with!

Thanks for the detailed reply!

I completed Foundry shortly after posting, but used a more 'conventional' team with ST Rit, SoS Rit, Panic Mes, Shared Burden Mes, BiP Necro, UA/prot Monk and Experts Dexterity Ranger (basically the build described by Primitiveworker in the link above, which was itself I think, taken from a post by Jeydra). I had a few deaths among the team and had to pop a couple of 4-leaf clovers to get rid of DP but had no major problems in any of the rooms or the subsequent stuff.

Now on to Mallyx for the very first time! More difficult than the other DoA sections?

No idea. I've done the DoA countless times, but I've still yet to do Mallyx o.o All I know is disable enchants. Ironic, eh?

I'll go ahead and say this - for more absolute firepower, spirits trump all right now. The DPS is astounding if you let them stick down spirits. However, I don't like the waiting, and I dislike the idea that spirits are the end-all. Using them may be easier, as they'll provide body-blocking and lots of single target damage.

Glad you completed it! It's not easy by any means.

How does this run in HM Kathandrax?

Figured I was missing something, but with times like that, maybe not.

Mistrust stacks very poorly without micro, even in caster heavy areas. Watch the recharges and you'll hardly ever see 2 mistrusts recharge, let alone 3. You have to watch for similar with wandering eye though I bet it's not as bad. Maybe they choose targets better when you're "barless" ie AFK but otherwise, it don't work so well without a ton of micro.

Did a re-run with a switch of 2x e-surge in place of ineptitude and panic. Could possibly replace SB, too. Using dual-invoke with a single copy of fall back (forgot to switch the skill on the second >.<) netted me 11 minutes, a second copy of fall back and another run to get a better feel would put it at ~10 minutes pretty easily. Raisu palace is an area which rewards high damage builds versus survivability. You could argue that much of PvE is like that, but I'd tend to place my bets on a more survivable team instead. The original team, if it had a speed boost, could probably pick up to 11-12 minutes, and considering the majority of the damage consists of 3 split mesmers, is pretty impressive.

The point was not to find the fastest team - but to find the most balanced team between all facets of combat. There's a reason I included variants, too - and the note here under the mesmers "The elites provide a significant defensive lineup of blind, slow, and mass interruption. Sometimes, this isn't what you need - so you can swap in E-Surge as needed." I very much realize that it is overkill on survivability, and it can be modified relatively easily to switch to a more high-power mode.

I'm also a rather poor person for attempting speedy times - I'm pretty slow on things, generally. I'm not good at shooter games for reaction time, and thinking on my feet, are not my strong points - my strong points tend towards the abstract theories behind everything. I'd plan tactics, and let others do the work, because I'm piss poor at it >.< There's a reason I didn't actually participate in any of the competitions.

I'm not using any powerhouse build, either, nor using AP and not much in the way of PvE skills (just ele lord, and sometimes intensity and technobabble, which is redundant anyways). :/ There's my rebuttal. However, if you don't like it.. It's your opinion, of course. I'm pretty content with the team as is, though I'm always tweaking a bit at times (when I'm actually playing atm). I dislike running around with minions and spirits all the time, so I dropped 'em. Pretty happy with the overall result after that, too.

Could you tell us what weapons and full runes across the board should be used?

Standard weapons. E/Mo should have a +20% enchanting, high energy staff.. at least the 20% enchant. BiP/ST should have either a spear/shield set to cover armor when PwK is down, or a resto set. Mesmers should either run spear/shield for high energy/armor, a 40/40 set in the dominant attribute, or a 20/20/20/20 set for dom/illusion. Or, I run with a 20/20 in the dominant attribute with a shield offhand (+10vs demons). RoJ is a 40/40 smite, spear/shield, or 20/20/shield. I'd only say a shield for specific purposes - ie, doa, really.

As far as runes.. enough energy runes to bring the mesmers to 30-35 energy at least. The rest, either blessed/survivor, vitae runes, highest affordable vigor. Not too picky, only the energy thing on the mesmers. That's essentially because BiP is used when they are <50% energy, and it's better to have it cast on them at 15+ energy than only 10. More leeway, as spells go off fast.

Hi Plutoman, Can you plz post the final build u using for DoA thx

Just wanted to give this a friendly bump by saying I've been using the dual smite dillway build in general HM gameplay and have had minimal problems (except when Livia gets suicidal... which is expected from a BiP bar I guess). I don't think it can get any more noob friendly, except maybe the balling of enemies part, but yeah good work! Hope you continue developing it and making it even more solid.

@masterfighter - standard build generally that's the core team. Oftentimes I change things around to experiment with what is better, but at the moment that's the team I'd use.

@Beleg, that's pretty awesome. Didn't know that. I crafted spears with a +5e, and then found mods. Finding the mods is usually the most annoying part. The bison cup/others is a good tip for those who don't have a lot of cash to blow. If you can, I recommend +10/demon shields.

@Xelanger, thanks. Glad you're enjoying it! I'm still going to play around with it, but I've honestly gotten a bit bored of GW lately. Comes from being ADD I guess. <_< I'll come back to it at some point and polish it up - I had a few ideas (cutting out the e/mo in the core by putting prot on the smites/invokes, and opening the slot without losing the survivability of the core team, and a couple other ideas). I welcome experimentation, so if you try anything that works really well, feel free to post it!

Had an interesting time running with the dual-invoke w/ prots instead of fall back - aegis, shielding hands, Shield of Absorption, and prot spirit (for when shelter goes down, the focused target still has damage reduction), and then triple e-surge. Was quite interesting to see mobs fall down. Sadly, while it's fun and pretty good, it collapses under high damage - second room, second wave foundry knocks that to it's feet quite quickly on the dryders and dream riders. The first opening room was great though. :P

That is true.. I don't necessarily have the patience to test that, so Iunno if I'll be able too. What I'd use are the green ones, which did have issues if I remember correctly. If that's true, 40/40 or 20/20/20/20 sets are fine enough, alternatively 20/20/shield or spear/shield depending on how defensive you'd like. Thanks for the pointer on that.

If anyone's interested, I was trying a variation with two invoke ele's, running a standard invoke/chain/l-orb/attune, with glyph of elemental power, 16 air, 4 ES, 11 Restoration with PwK, MBaS, and Spirit Light. Ran the ST Rit with a secondary monk and swapped out AoU, and all the resto skills besides the rez, with SoA, Shielding Hands, Prot Spirit, and Reversal of Fortune. Put e-surge on the ineptitude, panic, and SB - depending on area. If it's big mobs, keep panic, if you need blind, take either ineptitude or blinding surge. Used swapped out the power spikes for a shatter hex and unnatural signet.

Seemed to work rather well, but I don't necessarily have the time to consistently test it for weaknesses.