I nearly wiped just trying to get to Baubao today because the path to him is stacked with Ministry bada$$es. It's no longer worth the measely rewards for it if you have to fight endgame HM just for 70 coin.
I'm torn on WoC because at least with WiK there were immediate rewards, interesting changes and access to new areas. All WoC does is make travelling Cantha a living hell.
WiK actually benefits you because you get Shining Blade allies dropping in before you even officially start the content (just beat EotN and you get buddies in Kryta).
I don't mind the difficulty as much as the difficulty doesn't equal the reward(s).
WoC making Cantha dreadful
chuckles79
Family Guy
Please, for gawd's sake! No more QQ's about WOC. If it's too hard for you then ask for advice and not bigger rewards. People here WILL try and help.
BTW, how is this "endgame"? It's just additional content and you don't have to do it.
BTW, how is this "endgame"? It's just additional content and you don't have to do it.
Luminarus
I think the problem is that if you dont want to do it, the mobs are still gonna be there anyway... atleast thats what i thought. havent touched cantha in AGES.
Zenzai
LTP. It's really that simple. If you are going to piss and moan, do it about your own incompentence.
OThePestO
He has the right to complain about it if he wants, what's the need for a personal attack?
Seems like people will attack anyone here who they do not agree with, instead of just moving on, I guess they have to get in their $0.02!
Seems like people will attack anyone here who they do not agree with, instead of just moving on, I guess they have to get in their $0.02!
shinta_himura
Thirteen words.
"I hope you guys all did your vanqs before WoC"
"I hope you guys all did your vanqs before WoC"
Rise of Cpu
I think it can be stressful? Doesn't this make vq titles harder to acquire now? And yeh stop with the hate. Its a forum, if everyone would write what you wanted then there would be no need for this forum in the first place. Forums are for discussion.
nologic
Some people shouldn't be on forums if they are only here to whine about the people who complains.
He has the right to state his opinion about WoC as much as he wants and I do agree with him.
It seems L2P writing people one have oneliners comeback! I seriously doubt his comptence about the game it's not a L2P issue just a new way to make your skills usable and more effective to counter the npcs skill bar.
He has the right to state his opinion about WoC as much as he wants and I do agree with him.
It seems L2P writing people one have oneliners comeback! I seriously doubt his comptence about the game it's not a L2P issue just a new way to make your skills usable and more effective to counter the npcs skill bar.
Dark Morelia
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zenzai
LTP. It's really that simple. If you are going to piss and moan, do it about your own incompentence.
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If you were talking about WiK, where spawns go back to normal after you've finished it, then yeah, that might be cause for concern.
But I think someone has every right to piss and moan when their normal gameplay in an area has been totally and irrevocably (afawk) changed for the worse.
The level of conceitedness displayed on this forum can be downright dumbfounding at times.
Kelfer
There seems to be only 2 types of reply to these questions these days:
1. "If you can't hack it, don't bother"
2. "Try this and this, it might just get you through ..."
Whilst both camps are right to a certain extent, Anet seem to have forgotten something
This ->
Of course it does. It's also making you think about the way you play instead of simply "sleep walking" your way through the game.
That said, I feel there shoud have been a warning that VQ and HM will change completely in Cantha, similar to Tyria, before it was started.
1. "If you can't hack it, don't bother"
2. "Try this and this, it might just get you through ..."
Whilst both camps are right to a certain extent, Anet seem to have forgotten something
This ->
Quote:
| Doesn't this make vq / titles harder to acquire now? |
That said, I feel there shoud have been a warning that VQ and HM will change completely in Cantha, similar to Tyria, before it was started.
AngelWJedi
^ i agree 100%
EPO Bot
It's only that overpowered RoJ that melts down any pack of stacked heroes.
Elnino
Definately should have warned us about the changes. VQ'ing Minister Cho's was a pain.
source: http://www.arena.net/blog/what-does-...survey-results
I do believe that this comment was meant to imply that WoC would only be "challenging" for those who seek it and it just doesn't seem right that this "challenge" is forced onto players like the op when they're doing a quest completely unrelated to WoC.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by John Stumme
Q: How did you feel about the difficulty of the War in Kryta content?
Our first category saw an interesting split in opinions: 50.5% of people felt the difficulty was “just right,” while 37% skewed towards “too hard.” This is something that we’ll be addressing when we move forward into the new Canthan content we have planned. To start with, on the quests that you’ll be taking, you’ll have the option of completing them in Hard Mode for additional rewards. This will allow us to make the baseline of the quests a little easier for people that just want to get through the content and see the story. For those seeking the challenge, you’ll have a more compelling reason to tackle the quests in Hard Mode—something that didn’t exist previously outside of the Zaishen/Shining Blade quests. |
I do believe that this comment was meant to imply that WoC would only be "challenging" for those who seek it and it just doesn't seem right that this "challenge" is forced onto players like the op when they're doing a quest completely unrelated to WoC.
Fluffy Kittens
I found it more interesting and challenging now, I hope they won't change it back to super easy. And yeah, if you're not good enough to beat these silly mobs just ask people for advice, I'm sure there are many helpful folks out there.
Kelfer
Quote:
| It's only that overpowered RoJ that melts down any pack of stacked heroes. |
What was meant here is: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Winds_of_Change
There's actually 3 complete twists to the story.
Quote:
| completely unrelated to WoC. |
drkn
Quote:
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Of course it does. It's also making you think about the way you play instead of simply "sleep walking" your way through the game. That said, I feel there shoud have been a warning that VQ and HM will change completely in Cantha, similar to Tyria, before it was started. |
Everything what it now requires is using some more brain and being at least a bit accustomed to and proficient with the game's mechanics - flagging, calling, having a build useful for that certain area rather than a pvx cookie-cutter, and so on.
That said, please do remember that WiK mobs stopped appearing only after you've done the whole WiK. It might be the issue with WoC, thus making WoC spawns not stupid or buggy in essence, just ANet's taking too much time to implement the last part, whichever it is.
Gill Halendt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by drkn
This, and just this. There should be a warning, but the WoC's difficulty itself is fine. It actually is hard mode now, rather than 'pick your favourite gimmick from pvx' mode.
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WoC is currently the best expression of "pick your favourite gimmick from pvx mode" , the only difficulty being either:
- the ridicolously huge size of mobs
- the ridicolously high level of foes/attributes
- mixed combinations of the above
None of the spawns is particularly smart: WoC is HM on drugs, HM in turn being just NM on steroids. That's not "hard" nor "challenging" in my book, it's plain, oversimplistic nonsense.
I actually never felt the need of any gimmick before. Heck, I even skipped PvE-only skills as I found them redundant.... before WoC HM.
Venganza
Yes it would be good if they dumbed-down normal content for WoC, so all the lazy c-space people who insist on taking poorly setup heroes won't moan.
However the HM foes are great, and good to see something which isn't a total walk in the park.
I hope they do not dumb things down totally like they did with BFLA, what once to be hectic, you can almost solo on a rt now.
However the HM foes are great, and good to see something which isn't a total walk in the park.
I hope they do not dumb things down totally like they did with BFLA, what once to be hectic, you can almost solo on a rt now.
Kelfer
Quote:
| BFLA |
The level of the WOC quests is just about right, although I disagree that gimmick builds are needed here.
The end result is not yet clear, but they're getting there and doing a good job, considering that the main dev-team is now almost completely involved w. GW2
drowze
I agree OP. I don't have a problem with the difficulty of WoC mobs, I actually found it refreshing that I couldn't just faceroll through them. But even when you want to the something completely unrelated, like the Zbounty, you have to take on the much more powerful WoC mobs instead of the normal ones. I think some have said it before, but if you don't find it worth it, then don't do it 
I just take a different character or don't do it at all.
And I also waited on my 'second main character' to start WoC until I vanquished all of canta... that way I can choose myself to do WoC HM or not.
I just take a different character or don't do it at all.And I also waited on my 'second main character' to start WoC until I vanquished all of canta... that way I can choose myself to do WoC HM or not.
Essence Snow
I'm going to have to agree with OP and mostly Elnino's comment. While I don't mind the added difficulty, I do find it harder to VQ these areas than it is to complete any other area in the game including slavers hm, doa hm, and uw hm. That being said I feel that some sort of warning is needed to inform those who don't share in my interest. Or allow spawns to return if all WoC quests are abandoned. I don't feel that any player should be omitted from any content reguardless of what I or others feel we need. On that note the level of egotism in some of the posts is appalling.
Amy Awien
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Elnino
... ... it just doesn't seem right that this "challenge" is forced onto players like the op when they're doing a quest completely unrelated to WoC.
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Gill Halendt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kelfer
there's no comparisn here, really not. BFLA before 7 heroes was a challenge if you were alone.
The level of the WOC quests is just about right, although I disagree that gimmick builds are needed here. |
As a player who stubbornly did without PvE-only skills up to now, even bringing SY! on my Warrior felt borderline gimmicky... To me WoC lacked strategic finesse: I could brute-force through most of the HM quests, and that was a bit of a disappointment... WiK was much better accomplished in this respect IMO.
On the other hand, I've never had any problems with BFLA H/H before they "dumbed it down".
Yol
ANet can't win....players complain that it's too hard, so they make it easier, and then players complain that it's not challenging enough, so they make it harder, and then players complain that it's too hard...
Players have completed acts 1 and 2 of WoC in HM, and players have vanquished Cantha with the WoC spawns present. If you can't do it, ask those that can how they did it instead of whining that it's too hard. If you have done it, please give advice or pointers to those that have genuinely tried different strategies instead of running here to whine at the first sign of difficulty.
Players have completed acts 1 and 2 of WoC in HM, and players have vanquished Cantha with the WoC spawns present. If you can't do it, ask those that can how they did it instead of whining that it's too hard. If you have done it, please give advice or pointers to those that have genuinely tried different strategies instead of running here to whine at the first sign of difficulty.
Jeydra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yol
ANet can't win....players complain that it's too hard, so they make it easier, and then players complain that it's not challenging enough, so they make it harder, and then players complain that it's too hard...
Players have completed acts 1 and 2 of WoC in HM, and players have vanquished Cantha with the WoC spawns present. If you can't do it, ask those that can how they did it instead of whining that it's too hard. If you have done it, please give advice or pointers to those that have genuinely tried different strategies instead of running here to whine at the first sign of difficulty. |
Quote:
| On the other hand, I've never had any problems with BFLA H/H before they "dumbed it down". |
Silmar Alech
It is nice, that new interesting and challenging mobs replace boring and underpowered previous foes, but on the other hand, I don't care if I vanquish. With 136 areas to vanquish, I just want to get through it. To hell with the challenge, I just want that yellow helmet appear for that area.
It's somewhat irritating that suddenly some areas are definitely more difficult to vanquish than for other players, and you can do nothing against it apart from "do not start WoC". This is basically "do not play content x before doing y, otherwise you're forced to play the more difficult content".
In the past, things only got easier, never more difficult.
Luckily, I did not start WoC for that character I'm currently vanquishing, so I'm not complaining - but I am glad that I did not start WoC yet for that character. I guess this is not a desired feeling about a part of the game.
It's somewhat irritating that suddenly some areas are definitely more difficult to vanquish than for other players, and you can do nothing against it apart from "do not start WoC". This is basically "do not play content x before doing y, otherwise you're forced to play the more difficult content".
In the past, things only got easier, never more difficult.
Luckily, I did not start WoC for that character I'm currently vanquishing, so I'm not complaining - but I am glad that I did not start WoC yet for that character. I guess this is not a desired feeling about a part of the game.
Gill Halendt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
You didn't do it in HM.
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Irrelevant tough. WoC was a bit "quantity over quality" when compared to WiK IMO. Groups grossly overpowering the player in number, level or attributes, but still powered by a stupid AI, are not my idea of "challenge".
Jeydra
If you did BFLA HM H/H, especially if it was done without consumables, post screenshot. To the best of my knowledge nobody was able to do it, although many excellent players have tried.
As for not being your idea of "challenge", what would you prefer? How do you give the monsters an advantage without tweaking number, level, attributes? Or do you want to tweak AI?
As for not being your idea of "challenge", what would you prefer? How do you give the monsters an advantage without tweaking number, level, attributes? Or do you want to tweak AI?
Wielder Of Magic
Altough I agree that there should be an option to somehow "turn woc off" for those that want the normal spawns ( perhaps map spawns can be linked to your current active quest, meaning that when you/party leader does not have a woc quest active, there won't be woc mobs), I will mainly adress the horde of players that started woc, could not c-space it, and now cry for a nerf.
As said before to those people: Learn.To.Play.
I actually enjoyed the challenge that Winds Of Change gave me in hardmode.
Sure the mobs might be overpowerd in level and attribute here and there, but its still doable with basic tactics.
You do not have to be a professional to finish these quests.
Basic pulls, basic flags, and basic map watching ( no over aggro etc) is all you really need.
Guru has excellent guides on this matter, and for the real lazy people you can watch all basic and advanced tactics on youtube.
If you cannot be bothered with that, then don't play.
The content is clearly not meant for you.
Do not cry because you cannot 1-2-3 it.
Use your brain.
As said before to those people: Learn.To.Play.
I actually enjoyed the challenge that Winds Of Change gave me in hardmode.
Sure the mobs might be overpowerd in level and attribute here and there, but its still doable with basic tactics.
You do not have to be a professional to finish these quests.
Basic pulls, basic flags, and basic map watching ( no over aggro etc) is all you really need.
Guru has excellent guides on this matter, and for the real lazy people you can watch all basic and advanced tactics on youtube.
If you cannot be bothered with that, then don't play.
The content is clearly not meant for you.
Do not cry because you cannot 1-2-3 it.
Use your brain.
The Farmer
i agree with op the rewards are shit...however its free so who cares really.
bj91x
There are players who like elite difficulty content and there are players who like casual content. Elite players have elite HM areas to give them the challenge they want. Casual players stick to non-elite HM areas for a more relaxing gameplay. WoC HM is on par with elite HM areas, difficulty wise.
Unfortunately, WoC changes the difficulty of these casual HM areas into elite HM areas. A player who started WoC on NM did not ask for theire non-elite HM areas to be changed. Yet, now the casual players have to suffer.
Anet should make it so that non-elite HM areas aren't affected by WoC enemies if they currently don't have a HM quest in their log that affects the spawn of the area.
While there are some gamers who like to do elite difficulty stuff, many gamers just want to play casually without spending the time to study the game hardcore. If they work hard at their job, family, friends, etc. they have more important things to spend their effort on and games are a good way to escape from that pressure. The last thing they want is to spend the same effort on some game that's meant to help relieve that pressure.
If these casual players want to do elite HM content then yes, they should learn to play. However, when this elite difficulty is tossed on to casual player areas, it's the game that needs to change or lose its players.
Unfortunately, WoC changes the difficulty of these casual HM areas into elite HM areas. A player who started WoC on NM did not ask for theire non-elite HM areas to be changed. Yet, now the casual players have to suffer.
Anet should make it so that non-elite HM areas aren't affected by WoC enemies if they currently don't have a HM quest in their log that affects the spawn of the area.
While there are some gamers who like to do elite difficulty stuff, many gamers just want to play casually without spending the time to study the game hardcore. If they work hard at their job, family, friends, etc. they have more important things to spend their effort on and games are a good way to escape from that pressure. The last thing they want is to spend the same effort on some game that's meant to help relieve that pressure.
If these casual players want to do elite HM content then yes, they should learn to play. However, when this elite difficulty is tossed on to casual player areas, it's the game that needs to change or lose its players.
dasmitchies
I agree it must be frustrating, I can only imagine when WOC ends thigns will return to normal. Maybe in January or probably March.
Mintha Syl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bj91x
There are players who like elite difficulty content and there are players who like casual content. Elite players have elite HM areas to give them the challenge they want. Casual players stick to non-elite HM areas for a more relaxing gameplay. WoC HM is on par with elite HM areas, difficulty wise.
Unfortunately, WoC changes the difficulty of these casual HM areas into elite HM areas. A player who started WoC on NM did not ask for theire non-elite HM areas to be changed. Yet, now the casual players have to suffer. Anet should make it so that non-elite HM areas aren't affected by WoC enemies if they currently don't have a HM quest in their log that affects the spawn of the area. While there are some gamers who like to do elite difficulty stuff, many gamers just want to play casually without spending the time to study the game hardcore. If they work hard at their job, family, friends, etc. they have more important things to spend their effort on and games are a good way to escape from that pressure. The last thing they want is to spend the same effort on some game that's meant to help relieve that pressure. If these casual players want to do elite HM content then yes, they should learn to play. However, when this elite difficulty is tossed on to casual player areas, it's the game that needs to change or lose its players. |
That said, when I first discovered about the perma (or permanent for the moment, since we yet don't know how it will be after all parts have been done), I stopped after the first quest with my main and chose a char I don't like much to play with and I don't care much about to do the woc, so that I could enjoy playing normal cantha with my favourite ones. Now, I may be wrong, but I think one should play content with the chars he likes the most, not vice versa. And as I've seen many suggestions saying one should do the same as I did...well, I just don't think it's right.
Now, I remember when they made us take that test about wik to know what we liked and what not to see what they should have corrected in the future gw:b parts. I don't have the results under eye now, and I may remember wrong, but wasn't one of the things most people complained about the change of spawns all over kryta and the impossibility to have a switch for that? Well, they made woc so that you don't have any changes if you don't start it, and that's good, but following those results wouldn't also have been useful to put that switch off as well?Like, normal spawns if you don't have any of woc quests in your log or something like that. And I really really hope things will be reverted once all 3 parts have been done, otherwise it will mean that answers they had from us were totally useless.
Just my 2cents.
chuckles79
The problem I had was not that it was "too hard" as some real jerks went off on.
The problem was that I'm going about non-WoC business, but I have to fight through Ministry mobs to get to those places.
It's kinda silly that you have to fight through tough dual-profession bad guys to go beat the boss who's weaker than the weakest ministry enemies you face.
I've seen this a few times already where you fight WoC foes in one area and the next block or so you are back to generic badguys who you faceroll.
WiK brought us bounties that gave us reason to go into their territory and fight them in HM.
All WoC is doing is making me avoid adventuring in Cantha.
What started all this is I took the Z-Bounty which until WoC was a milk run and all of the sudden I have to fight through ministry thugs to get to him.
If I wanted that level of difficulty I'd be doing dungeons or FoW/UW, or even more WiK bounties.
Not to mention the fact that why would a battalion of Ministry guys be loitering around the undercity?
The problem was that I'm going about non-WoC business, but I have to fight through Ministry mobs to get to those places.
It's kinda silly that you have to fight through tough dual-profession bad guys to go beat the boss who's weaker than the weakest ministry enemies you face.
I've seen this a few times already where you fight WoC foes in one area and the next block or so you are back to generic badguys who you faceroll.
WiK brought us bounties that gave us reason to go into their territory and fight them in HM.
All WoC is doing is making me avoid adventuring in Cantha.
What started all this is I took the Z-Bounty which until WoC was a milk run and all of the sudden I have to fight through ministry thugs to get to him.
If I wanted that level of difficulty I'd be doing dungeons or FoW/UW, or even more WiK bounties.
Not to mention the fact that why would a battalion of Ministry guys be loitering around the undercity?
Gill Halendt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
If you did BFLA HM H/H, especially if it was done without consumables, post screenshot. To the best of my knowledge nobody was able to do it, although many excellent players have tried.
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Still, a lot of the complaints about BFLA came by the majority that didn't care and just did it NM, so it must have been pretty tough for them anyway.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
As for not being your idea of "challenge", what would you prefer? How do you give the monsters an advantage without tweaking number, level, attributes? Or do you want to tweak AI?
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Better synergies and randomization of mobs, together with some improvements to the AI tough, are entirely possible. WiK was great in this respect, while I felt like they went back to the "bigger is better" attitude with WoC: even if groups were randomized as well, they were pretty predictable, with fewer variations and more focused but less original builds. That, together with almost insignificant coordination meant each enemy was playing on its own against you, relying on its powerful build alone. It made most groups just a matter of patience, which I found a bit boring.
Yol
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chuckles79
Not to mention the fact that why would a battalion of Ministry guys be loitering around the undercity?
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Avatar of Me
In all honesty, I didn't find the WoC HM content too difficult, aside from the quests on Shing Jea Island. Granted, I've only just finished dealing with the afflicted. I've yet to see how difficult the rest of the content is, but from what people tell me, it's easier than the afflicted.
I can understand where people are coming from though. It's a huge ramp up in difficulty from the regular spawns. And it doesn't just go away when the quests are done.
Also, if you're having trouble with these quests, stop using discord. Seriously, I can't stress this enough.
I can understand where people are coming from though. It's a huge ramp up in difficulty from the regular spawns. And it doesn't just go away when the quests are done.
Also, if you're having trouble with these quests, stop using discord. Seriously, I can't stress this enough.
Kelfer
Quote:
| Avatar of Me : stop using discord |
It's been redundant since the change to AotL
Do find taking a Nec w. Verata skills amsuing here tho'
"Who's minion was that again?"
Anyways, the Minister dudes are there to stay until this thing ends, get used to it
Sciros Darkblade
I've played through all of the WoC content and its biggest crime wasn't the level of difficulty. It was how repetitive it was! I kept hoping for something other than "fight off waves of dudes again" but no. It's as if the live team was timeboxed to half a day to design the full set of quests for WoC. It's free content, sure (being a long term investment in the fanbase so that we will continue to pay for stuff when stuff to pay for comes around), but it's just so primitively designed and shallow. Granted the second WoC release was an improvement in terms of story than the first (which was one of the worst, most boring things I've played in years), there's still a ways to go to make me want to play for the sake of playing it, rather than purely for promise of quest rewards.
/haterrant
/haterrant
Mireles
It is not any harder than hard mode used to be before it got watered down for the QQ-ers... just be glad they don't have 25% faster cast and recharge anymore and think of solutions outside of the popular gimmicks instead of complaining bout it.