back from GW2

movement control is so heavy and awkward that i've got a painful wrist and a boredom headache, very happy to be back in FA having fun rather than trying to persuade myself that the grind is worth the pain or the ennui

Agreed, very little similarity between GW & GW2, other than lore.
UI completely different... happily I can reassign keys so I have mostly the same mechanics.
I'm gonna slug it through for a while hoping familiarity makes it more fun.

Despite being able to jump, the movement definitely feels inferior in GW2 (and being locked down while you try to rez someone is *NOT* fun - can't just tap a direction to break and start moving, say, when an AOE circle shows up in Metrica during the elemental fight, have to hold for a long while...). Combined with the low FOV (feels barely 70 degrees) and the bad camera (which can't even go into first person), it's definitely not a great experience.

Hm, I've been pondering some of the negative reactions from people and I've wondered a couple of things:

1. Are people unhappy with GW2 because they're so used to GW1 and it's lack of familiarity?
2. Did people forget that Anet DID say to forget everything you knew about GW1 and that they're going to be very different games in terms of play style and mechanics?
3. How many of the changes have been made since the Beta weekends and such?
4. How many of these issues are just teething problems and will be resolved after a month or two?

It's far too different from GW1. GW1 has so much going for it - so why deviate so much when making GW2?

I get bored of doing the same grind in different instances (Vistas, spawn points, heart quests) because they're the same thing in a different setting. I don't think the graphics look particularly nice either.

It's never going to have the same sentimental impact on people as pre-searing GW1.

Nice to see some legitimate criticism instead of blind fanboy praise or kneejerk gw2=wow posts.

I have several problems with it as a game but the largest is that they called it Guild Wars. Had they named it something else the expectation of a true successor to what really is a wonderful game wouldn't be there.

I can understand the name carrying across because the story is continuing, but maybe there's too many stark differences from GW1 that makes it feel uncomfortable? I can understand that ANet wanted to make some changes and try new things, but it'd be sad if they alienated the old playerbase in the process. The more cynical will I'm sure say that they don't care as long as they're raking in the cash, but clearly they do care as they do listen (sometimes). They listen a damned sight more than any other gaming company I've come across. I'm sure if they're seeing an increase in people returning to GW1, they're going to wonder why that's happening and want to know how to address it.

I'm glad I've had to sit back on the launch now. I was upset before but it's actually helpful to see the reactions from people before I start playing myself.

I am playing GW2, and I'd love it more than I do if I could join a guild, but the join button doesn't work. Other than that I've spent two hours running around going "Ooh! Wooow!"

only played about 10min mostley creating 5 char right away. In GW1 Im a Mouse and Keyboard guy, and dont like the direction keys. I like the mouse directed movement, and mine has 12 bottons on it for skills and other macros, Razer Naga, and i use a Merc SeaLth Zboard keyboard with it. Dont so far GW2 dont like that and dont like graphics almost sorry i bought it. But i remember 2 nerfs in 2005 (AoE) runaway and the underworld one. that almost had everyone guitting GW1 but we hung in and are here still.

Talking about movement I totally miss click-to-move, I keep trying and get disappointed it doesn't work. It should be an option, even if disabled by default. It just adds so much more quick maneuverability.

2nd biggest pain its the complete lack of person2person trading. People don't trust each other enough and don't want to trade by mail at all (it was obvious this Anet idea was full of fail).

Other problems like infinite lag, queues, more loading screens than in GW1 despite the world not being instanced, splitting parties across separate overflow servers, trading post down, etc. will most likely be fixed. The first 2 however may not.

movement is so demanding especially in PvP. this game is for younger people whose wrists and hand are still healthy.

This was the primary reason, when they said keyboard movement will be used, I said I wasn't going to be able to play it. Money, for the game and an updated computer, was the second reason.

A cousin was visiting, wanted to use my computer to find something online. First thing he asked when he sat down, "Why is the 'C' and the end of the spacebar so shiny?"

Yes I agree. If this game had no association to Guild Wars whatsoever I probably wouldn't be playing it. But i'm trying to make myself.

It does seem very repetitive and grindy, but what isn't?

I really dislike all the running. Even with waypoints I feel I'm spending about 50-70% of my time just running. Combat is not so thrilling for me as it is for others.

There are so many people that absolutely love this game that I feel like I'm doing something wrong, or missing the boat on something.

It's taken me about 15-20 hours of gameplay and I'm enjoying it a tad bit more now that my mind is starting to wrap around it.

But it's definitely not like GW1 where I loved it from the first minute.

Once the trading post goes up I think I'll like it more. Anyway glad I'm not alone in this.

Is pretty much a semi-first person shooter without cross hair + WoW + Skyrim with a GW1 original story line ^_^.

Agree there is way to much of running especially without speed bonus, and no doubt some mega grinding if your interested in title.

Adding back P2P trading is ok, but trading via email is god send improvement. It save lot of time waiting for someone to get online to do a trade, especially if your trading with a person out of your local time. If people don't trust trading via email then i guess when the trade post open it wouldn't be an issue.

During the beta I really hate it, i think because of playing gw for so long. And having this so call gw2 game is like "WHAT F.... this this S...????". But after spending couple day on it, it grow on me. As long as I don't try to think this is gw2 and just treat it as another game ("a' normal MMO game). Looking back on GW1 and it's unique style of playing it almost can be consider a game catalogue as its own truly unique, original, innovative at it time and no other.

IMO GW1 was build from ground zero. GW2 hmm... build off what lot of other games and picked out those feature that got going for them. And then mesh it all into 1 place. Just another "semi cash cow" MMO with some extra (not new) gaming features what have not usually been in MMO type game before. I guess only time can tell how their product workout.

I am really disappointed with the graphics. Guild Wars 1 was and still is beautiful. Everywhere you go even within a small instanced area is unique. It really makes you want to explore. So far, and I will admit my time has been very limited so I am talking from a level 5 perspective, everything looks kind of the same.

First off al,

I played the gw2 beta and I played for the first time today the real 'final' game (though when is a mmo final).

I been saying for 2 years that people who expect too much of the game or expect a gw1 clone with upgraded graphics are going to be dissapointed. It is a totally different game. Movement is in my opinion really easy, but the extra axe adds a different feel. Besides that I needed to tell people the difference between arrow keys controls and wasd controls. arrow keys are a no go imo, but try wasd.

Secondly, yes it is very difficult, but saying that the comparission stops at the lore is imo wrong. Firts of all there are the skills, they are named after gw1 skills alot. Though some function different, they took the same skill and implemented them with a twist (comparing meteor shower gw1 and gw2 style is crazy, but in the end they both deal aoe damage and cause kd's.

Again, I'm not critical bout GW2, but burning it to the ground is dumb imo. They did a great job and I feel very sorry you didn't take the time to e.g. grab a curse beta weekend event key like i did (it was a free offer, and many off them where available) before rushing into buying it. The game is good, if it is not your thing I'm sorry you spend money on it, but then again maybe you should try a bit more beofre judging it.

Last off all bout the RSI-problems. I needed to re-arange my keyboard mouse as well, cause of having a lil bit of trouble. But, what I did was move them both a bit further away from the side of the desk. This is always good to do (so your wrists are fully supporting o nthe deks instead of levatating in the air). although you are right, that GW2 is asking you to do this more then GW1, keep in midn it is always good to game with a good posture and follow ergonomic rules. Besides that, muscles need traing, you are making new movements (specially if your used to arrow-keys) so give it a time to get your musscles fine tuned.

Movement is inferior to GW1. I really miss click-to-move. At the moment, my left hand is doing all the work. I still don't understand why it isn't in the game.

Personal story kinda sucks. Monotone voice acting and animation that doesn't even correspond to their tone. The whole cinematic system is crap. Just two people standing in front of a screen chatting. Sorta breaks the immersion (especially since some characters shouldn't be standing up). GW1 cinematics would be nice!

Another complaint I have is how uninteresting the characters have been at least for the beginning of the human story. We need more characters like Koss, Gwen, Norgu and Prince Rurik. Characters with personality! Logan Thackeray bores me.

Hearts and events are incredibly boring especially since I'm forced to do them in order to level up and continue with the personal story. Everything is the same. For hearts it's either stomp something, pick something, fix something or kill something. For the events it's either defend someplace, escort something or kill something. Only difference between the hearts/events is the setting. Really dreading the thought of having to do these hearts/events again when I make another character. We really should be able to do the personal story without having to stop in between chapters to level up. In GW1 I could do Vizunah Square and continue with the campaign even though I was only level 12 ^_^

I haven't played GW2 yet. I probably will buy it soon, tho I'm not sure about some things. I probably should have tried to get on the beta tests but I couldn't be bothered.

I be confused after reading the comments in here about the controls. If you can't click to move, you do click on skills, right? Or did they totally nuke clicking and you use number keys for that?

I didn't buy GW2 because I've been taking a "wait and see" approach.
It worries me to see this many posts like this so soon.
Is the honeymoon over already?

the game is very different from the original and not for everyone, so everyone wont be happy....if you are trying to compare guildwars to guildwars 2--you are comparing fruits and vegetables.

after playing the betas, I was also in the sore wrist group--as well as a huge migraine! (then my computer graphics card died...).

@charrbane..yes, you click on skills, movement is basically all keyboard now.

you cant please all the people all the time...

When I started GW it was my first MMO and I had a steep learning curve to contend with.

Unfortunately, much of that studious practice went out the window with GW2, though I can certainly relearn... lol, I was hopping like a frog on meth for the first few hours (not alone though)

Its more like Aion2 than GW2
The thing that upsets me the most is that when attacking it doesn't move in on the enemy. If there are multiple foes I can be attacking the one out of reach without noticing...

People disliking it does'nt make it a bad game, it's just not for everyone.

Perfect analogy is when a band puts out a new album and changes it's sound and direction.Many fans of the previous material will cry bloody murder that the band has lost it's way, given up on it's fans, etc, etc.

At the same time many older fans will like the change and evolve with the music while the change of direction will also encourage new fans to check it out, and in many cases go back and listen to the older material.

Games of this nature are no different imo.Some will stay here, others will play both, others will move on.

I also strongly agree with cosyfiep, comparisons are pretty redundant as outside the name and lore association it's a completely different beast in terms of actual game mechanics, as Anet quite clearly said it would be.Those who expected exactly the same game with shinier graphics must have been living under a rock for the last year.

You can use the movement keys to break off rezing - I do it all the time (Ranger pets...although mine don't die very often unless there's a ton of AOE *grin*).

That said, it's definitely a very different game in terms of gameplay to GW1, and I can understand people not liking the changes. My husband sorely misses click-to-move, double-click a party member to follow (helps to find them in a mob!) and the lack of moving into range when casting skills. When he's playing, I run around with the Target marker over MY head so he can find me!

That said...it's also a game that I think takes time to grow on someone. It's NOT GW1, it's NOT Aion, it's NOT WoW, and people expecting one or the other of those tend to initially be lost and confused when they start out. One of my friends was *bitterly* disappointed for the first 6-10 hours of the first beta, because it wasn't like she'd expected at all (to the point where she was thinking she'd just return to Aion - in her opinion it was definitely NOT Aion Mark 2). Now, she loves it, had been counting down the seconds until headstart for the last month, and has put in more time and done more stuff in GW2 since headstart than anyone else in the guild.

GW2 has continued the lore, and continued the basis behind a lot of the decisions made in GW1...PvE is cooperative instead of competitive (which most standard-quest based MMOs fail with "queue here for quest mobs and wait your turn, or fight over them", and "roll for the good loot...ninja!", etc). I was never one for PvP - but they've aimed for "jump in and play at equal power so skill matters" for competitive PvP, and a PvPvE environment for WvW for those that prefer that.

The heart and premise behind the mechanics from GW1 is still there in GW2, but the mechanics that achieve it have changed - in some cases pretty radically. Some of that was to allow for persistent world/shared maps, some of that was to evolve gameplay styles, some to allow mechanics that previously were not possible in GW1 (like jumping/swimming). Not everyone will like or adapt to those changes - but that's why the GW1 servers were not going to be disabled when GW2 came out, and that's why GW2 was made as a NEW game rather than a campaign in GW1 (so they didn't change the existing game that people already loved into one that they just didn't like anymore). Choice = good .

As for trading...the ONLY form of player-to-player trading supported is for in-game gold through the Trading Post. Mail is for gifting (giving items with no expectation of a return since it can't be enforced - perfectly good for between people you trust and play with all the time with the benefit that you don't have to be in the same area or online at the same time, but no use for trading with strangers since the likelihood of getting scammed is exceedingly high)...and it's bitten ArenaNet in the backside when the Trading Post collapsed under the weight of headstart people. People refusing to trade with strangers through mail are actually doing the right thing - protecting themselves from scammers, because there is NO safe way to trade through in-game mail. At present, ArenaNet have been focussing on getting people actually into the game...but I hope they get the Trading Post back up soon, because the lack of it is crippling people in terms of being able to get items they can use and to sell items that are not relevant to their class...and to get crafting materials/sell crafted gear. And yes - I was one of the players horrified when they said there would be no face-to-face trading possibilities and I tried to argue that it was still needed (and lots of people shouted me down because "mail and the Trading Post together do everything you should need, the Trading Post is safer, and we're sick of the WTB/WTS spam that you get with face-to-face trading")...but it's not there and it's not going to be there. When it's working, the Trading Post is actually *really* awesome, it's just a shame that it's broken at the moment with no ETA for getting it back up.

played alot of games, and not a fanboi of GW1, some of it works for me, some of it, most of it is is grind, playing GW2 because it's a new game not because of some blindlove of anet, however, never actually had pain before from playing a pc game, and i fail to understand the justifications for the change in movement control, if i put my dusty old HA hat on i'd say that the game designers don't really play the game they design, someone with authority has a 'bright' idea, and people with less do what they're told
so, i was prepared for the grind, it's the way this type of game is, do it with friends and it's ok, movement control pain is a no no

Ahhh ok, that's good. I'm sure I'll get used to the differences considering it took a bit of playing to get used to the way movement worked in GW in the first place. I know I wasn't the only one. haha.

I might just pick up the game sometime tomorrow.

Nostalgia makes old things seem much better than they were.

Movement was never anything special in GW1, in my opinion. Being able to move while casting spells, being able to dodge, and having several different means to leap into combat improve the overall experience. Yes, there's no key for you to automatically face the opposite way, and that might feel clunky at the beginning, but those keys were mostly to aid GW1's rather limited movement.

There's a few questions and notes I have to make. Do not interpret them as if coming from a blind gw2 fanboy, because the sequel sure isn't perfect, and should still get a lot of improvements with time. GW2 is a very different game, but outside of the lack of GvG and hero/ henchmen parties, it mostly builds upon GW1's ideas and improves them greatly.

1. If the heart quests are boring and grindy, then what does that tell of GW1's quests? Let's put nostalgia out of the way. GW1's quests make you waste too much time running to the NPC, they are not as diverse as GW2's ones are (although the different between both games here is not much), and sometimes their rewards are really poor (mostly experience). In comparison, GW2's hearts are streamlined, synergy with events, the experience rewarded is more meaningful, and they unlock unique merchants.
2. The world exploration has been drastically improved. There's a lot more places to teleport to, and the costing fee is not noticeable. There's more things to do in each map that just kill and explore (get loot, search for vistas, search for unique merchants, find and do jumping puzzles). Dynamic events add life to everything around you, and they might unpredictably make your experience different when you pass through the same place for the second or third time.
3. Let's not forget that GW1's economy wasn't good, and player-to-player-trading was both a hassle and an incentive for spam. It was always a big complaint against the game. People always begged for Auction Houses or the like. The new Trading Post menu is a clean, efficient and very convenient solution.
4. As a casual or semi-competitive pvp player, let's not even compare monk-team-wins Random Arena with GW2's hot-join matches. It's comparing mediocre game design to good game design. GW2 pvp was designed around a very inaccessible format (GvG), and your average, casual or semi-pro PvPer were left with a random format in a game that depends on specific team configurations, and AB/ JQ/ FA. Hot-join matches don't make you waste one hour until you get a good team, and AB/ JQ/ FA fun is plenty to be had in WvW, which also has capturing point, which also has supply beasts, which also has fort capture, but everything is done so much better, with so much more detail, and so much more diversity, and so much more guild support.
5. Maps sure are not more repetitive than they were in GW1's. In fact, they're easily comparable to EotN's maps, and Nightfall's ones too (outside of the pallete color). Go compare Kessex Peaks from one game to the other, like the floading castle around it. GW1 had plains around it. GW2 has plains, a port town, a sea to explore, and underground caves, and that's not even the entirety of GW2's Kessex peaks, which is a battleground filled with forts, temples and secret bases in hidden caverns or at the top of hills.

Some of you are what remains of GW1's fanbase, and are very nostalgic about it, but coming back to the game won't mean the general GW1 community will. Most GW1 players have already moved on, even before GW2 came out, and for those, coming back to GW1 now would be a negative experience. They would look at GW1's quests, casual pvp, trading, etc, and clearly see how outdated they are compared to the sequel.

not sure nostalgia is relavent, especially since GW1 still exists, perhaps find a new term

fraid to me you sound read like a fanboi, nothing wrong with that, i'm really always going to find pve a grind dull, however it's an ok way to learn game mechanics, and hopefully in GW2 model will make the transition to pvp will be much less scary for the meek (omg no one will take me in their grp, i've got a super awesome build, just let me show u) types, however as i believe i stated
the awkwardly heavy, unresponsive controls that actually hurt and seem to be for no good reason apart from perhaps including jumping etc for console gamers, so all the pve stuff ur talking about, unlocking merchants etc, irrelevant, you're defending/advocating stuff i've no interest in flaming

honestly, guys if you're fanbois this isn't for you, i'm just talking about interface, pve is a grind for me, but i bought the game knowing that, i'm just dismayed by the controls

remember that new games have to get used to, and GW2 is announced as a totally different game than GW

GW2 isnt my kinda game (most newer games arent, but that aside), but i think it looks great and has way more freedom and is way more advanced than most MMO's i saw/played

like crafting looks better, and storage looks nice, then the fact that everyone has his/her own healing which is a must

i dont know about other parts like long recharge of heal skills, looks dangerous to me, cuz if i need healing twice in a battle i will have to survive until it recharged or runaway from battle

but i saw that GW2 has its scaling spawns, which decreases spawns when alone, so those who can handle it well, will have a nice time and are able to survive

all games has its drawbacks, GW2 has 2:

1 of which is based on the community, which is "the game is totally different than GW"
the other is "GW2 is new, and has its unbalanced stuff (probably) and its newness, you could say"

GW2 called a clone is cuz it has a real MMO system unlike GW (which makes it even less my kinda game), and people compare all MMO's with each other, even if they are totally different

lets say GW2 is another MMO, but in its own way

people will get used to it, and those who bought it and regret it now, prolly will return to try again, and most likely get used to it after a while

*TIP*for those who think GW2 is a bad "guild wars" game, play some other MMO's for a month or 2, then try GW2 without touching GW in the meantime, that may make it easier to get used to
there's enough free MMO's you can try for fun, just getting used to their systems

GW2 is primarily built for the people that didn't like GW1.

I would still be playing GW1 if they didn't kill the game by initiating the Asura/Norn skills.

Sadly GW1 is basically dead because the game is broken from a builds standpoint and the playerbase is dwindling. GW2 is all we have left.

Keep in mind GW2 just came out, it will be a lot more polished in the months to come.

And it doesn't help that your targeting circle/highlight is so tiny that it's next to impossible to see which of several identical critters you actually have as your target, even if you're the only one in the area so that the obscuring FX aren't nearly as bad as they are with even a moderate zerg of 5-10 people.

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Er, no. GW1's dying (not dead yet, as anyone who actually enters the game could see), but not too fast and certainly not faster than you'd expect a game with a definite end and minimal content updates to die.

One thing I'm definitely missing so far in GW2: there is no storyline to take you in a logical manner from level 1 to level 80. None of the second stages of the Personal Stories, for example, starting at level 14(?) have even the slightest relationship to the story before that. Even Prophecies, which has the most varied storyline sections of the original, flows together better than GW2's Personal Stories. (and the quality, of course, of the GW1 stories are far better than the GW2 stories)

Starting to feel like Diablo3 allover.
Cant finish creating a character.
At the final step, unable to connect to the login server.

And i keep trying for 1 or 2 hours now, cos if i quit GW2 i fear i loose all the character choises i made, wich r alot, and took long enough.

GW2's story is on the level and style of Nightfall's/ EoTN's stories. Semi-decent, semi-forgottable plots focused on character interaction, with several good moments and good details.

I had the idea that prophecies and factions were very poorly regarded story-wise. I mean, they had good premises, but the writing was so bad, it actually made me laugh at the cutscenes. Voice acting and cutscene direction didn't help, though. I would never put them "far" above what Nightfall/ EoTN/ GW2 have to offer.

In my opinion, GW only shined at telling a story with Winds of Change. I liked it so much, that I associate the whole Factions campaign with the Ministry of Purity and the citizens they were trying to serve. Who was that evil black-haired Sephiroth guy with a funny voice again? :P I remember being hyped about him before the game, and then laughing at how bad and cliché he turned out to be.

It was the cookery that swung it for you, wasn't it?

Agreed, the "mapping" is very repetitive, but I found it's necessary, otherwise the game "leaves you behind" and you find yourself under levelled for the areas your personal story takes you to.

Some of those PoIs and vistas are a right pain too - there's still one in Lion's Arch I haven't found a way to. Sharkmaw Caverns anybody? Apparently it's one of those jumping puzzles, but I'm damned if I can find where to jump...

(cough - oh yeah, GW1)

The Sharkmaw vista is just outside the jumping puzzle. The entrance I found was through the back yard of the nearby mill and floundering around the underbrush 'til I found the spiral path up... :P

Sharkmaw's cavern vista (though this belongs on the other forum): Go to the mill, find a few haystacks and look for a slightly hidden passage.......

There is a keybinding available in GW2 to reverse direction (equivalent to GW1 'x'), it's just not bound to any key by default. There's also a "target nearest enemy" (GW1 'c') keybinding that's not bound by default.

Just in case, dropping this in spoiler. General advice/clues for this vista & puzzle. I'm happy to pm full details if you want, but I don't want to completely spoil it for everyone .

Edit: Oh, and the vista actually shows the entrance to the jumping puzzle bit, so it's worth watching .

Did they take away the loot key? During the beta i was able to map ";" to pick up loot (just like how we do it in gw), but i couldn't see that in the Mouse option anymore. The "F" is fine but if the loot is outside your reach, it won't work anymore.

I love the use of keyboard to move your character. I'm a left handed person so using the numeric keypad is good for me. I mapped num5 to turn-around and "j" to jump, the default "r" to auto-run and "w" for walk. So, i can really move around using the keyboard comfortable. (Mouse click to run could be an added feature but i can live without it.)

I love the respawn. We don't waste time re-zoning anymore. And the "stockable" (forgot the text for it) in our inventory, it's really awesome. It is like you have your bank (vault) following you around.

The bad thing is the "melee range" option. I think it's not working. I was hoping that if i un-check the melee option, my character will follow the enemy when it runs away. But it's not working.

Thanks for the assist, guys - will have another stab at it tomorrow. Work sucks