GW1's future with GW2 taking the scene?

not everyone likes that kind of game. I, for one, could not physically play it as it makes me ill to watch (vertigo, motion sickness--call it what you will).
I dont understand why I cant just enjoy the games I do without being told I should be playing something else. I enjoy playing guildwars, I did not enjoy guildwars 2 (for other reasons besides the one I mentioned).
Others may enjoy playing both, why should they have to choose???

and as was just mentioned, since there is no fee, I can continue to play either/both until they turn the servers off.

I know what you mean about vertigo. I'm afraid of heights - even the perception of height - which is why I dislike so many of the jumping puzzles in GW2. I make myself do them anyway. Kids sure like them though.

When I first started playing Guild Wars I remember that I was disappointed to find out that my characters couldn't move like Lara Croft. Being a long-time Tomb Raider player that came as a real jolt.

I personally don't like first-person games because I like to see what's going on behind my character's back. So, I simply don't buy them. It's a very popular genre though.

It all boils down to personal preference. Go with whatever floats your boat.

My Elementalist in GW2 is learning two trades - Chef and Tailor. Which reminds me of The Sims and Aspiration choices. Thankfully, I don't have to keep my character's Social and Fun bars in the green. o.O

That's your opinion based on what you like. For many of us it's really the opposite.

If we focus only on the things that both games are similar at, or especially at things one game is good at while the other is decent/ mediocre at, I have yet to see anyone point out clear weaknesses of the sequel compared to the original game. I'm sure there might be a few, but I haven't see anyone pointing them yet.

Keep in mind that I'm comparing the apples of each other. When people post their dislikes about the sequel here, they are mostly comparing oranges with apples.

The combat is more action-driven, with action-driven controls. The philosophy behind profession customisation is different. The solo-content gives a completely different feel than the original's hero/ henchmen party content. Those details are not comparable, and it's perfectly fine someone enjoys GW1 a lot more than the sequel, because it feels like a different game.

Outside of those details, though, GW2 does everything that GW1 fans demanded for years. It fixes GW1's casual pvp formats, it fixes GW1's economy system, it fixes GW1's restricted and outdated movement system, it ramps up GW1's generic quests to something more unique (something that would have happened with GW1 already, if they didn't cancel its 4th campaign).

GW1's diehard fans might be unhappy that the improvements GW1 needed were put in into a sequel that feels like a very different game, but I can assure you, if most of those fixes and improvements wre put in into a future GW1's campaign/ expansion, people would love it, because they have literally been asking for those features for years.

If GW2 had a more similar playstyle to GW1: for example, if we had the option to play GW2's PvE completely instanced and with heroes/ henchmen, without changing anything else about GW2, the improvements the sequel brings would be clearer to see.

Point A to point B campaign completion through storyline. In GW1 you could be up and running on a max level character from scratch in hours leaving you to finish the game at will. The GW2 approach is to throw roadblocks in your path until you go and grind to a suitable point elsewhere. With level differences being so highly amplified (and often suicidal) even basic exploration is hampered by this.

That's a good one, and I agree. The storytelling is told at a clunky pace for those who want to go straight through it. Although if you play the game for more reasons than just for the story, it is not much of a grind at all. I'm level 71 already by just playing normally, didn't need to grind so far, and my last story instances were only for level 55-ish (and I believe I follow the story at a "normal" pace). It seems they wanted players to explore and enjoy the world inbetween story events, so rushing in for the sake of the story is impossible indeed.

Yeah, thread necro, so sue me - it's not like we have a ton of active threads left here anyway, and I just felt compelled to reply here after popping into the game to prep for the upcoming Dragon Fest.

The problem is, the games are different enough in many aspects so you have to compare oranges to apples. Even with your examples of "similarity" the mechanics of those systems are different, which is compounded by the different design of the game, so the improvements you talk about are still an orange to apples comparison.

The only thing that can be fairly compared are the graphics, and by nature GW2 should look better than GW1, but ultimately that will also comes down to personal preference. For me, I don't put any stock in a game's graphics because no matter how good a game looks, those graphics go to waste if you don't play the game because the gameplay, design, and mechanics are not to your liking or are just flat out inferior.

How does GW2 fix the casual PvP formats?
How does it fix the economy system? (Aside from implementing an AH, though from what I have heard from some friends playing the game, the implementation isn't as good as it could be).
I really never paid much attention to either outside of Factions' FA and JQ arenas as I am a PvE player by nature, so would like your opinions on the matter.

Outdated movement system? Again, oranges to apples. It's only outdated if your personal preferences lead you to believe that. Personally speaking, the movement and combat in GW1 feels better to me. Jumping puzzles? Can't stand them - if I wanted to play a platformer, I would go back to my NES and play Mario Bros again. Talk about outdated!

Improved quest system? Again, personal preference and different mechanics, thus oranges to apples. Ultimately, however, all quest systems boil down to your basic fetch fedex quests, regardless of the presentation, even in GW2. Dynamic events? Nothing but unorganized zergfests that cannot possibly be anything resembling improvement over a skilled and organized Raid event (or elite dungeon run in GW1).

The "Buddy system"? Yes, an improvement over any MMO where you are now scaled to the level of the area so you can help your friends or guildmates, or even a random player in a noobie zone. Poor implementation however, that they are still trying to get right. And just for personal preference, forced level scaling is an inferior implementation.

Honestly, the only thing I ever saw GW1 players asking for for years was less instancing and more open world so the game would feel more like an MMO. Ultimately, that too comes down to personal preference. I for one can't stand respawns and no matter which MMO I have played still long for the ability to just wander a zone or afk as needed wherever I am and not have to worry about fighting the same mob over and over and over and over again. Where is the improvement? GW2 feels as single-player oriented as GW1, you just happen to see random people running around now instead of NPCs. The actual MMO part of the game is not improved at all, and in several aspects, design decisions in the game make it inferior to other "outdated" MMO mechanics.

When it comes down to it, the "improvements" in GW2 only are such if your preferred playstyle is complimented by them. Personally speaking, GW1 PvE is superior to me in every aspect of design and playability to GW2. So when us fanbois of GW1 complain about GW2 we do it because GW1's design is more befitting us as players, and because most, if not all of "What we loved about Guild Wars" is decidedly absent from Guild Wars 2, despite the marketing catchphrases Anet used. One need only look at the manifesto Anet so brazenly put out during GW2's development to see how far the actual game fell from the ideals and actual design that made GW1 great to play in 2005 and still remains great to play today.

I don't think they would and I don't know where you got those demands from.

World versus world. It's sort of a combination of gvg and alliance battles and random/team arenas and ft. aspenwood/jade quarry. You can play anytime, hot join, organized guild, solo, small team play, massive zergs, w/e. You can focus on fights, taking/defending objectives, or all of the above.

After you play it awhile you begin to see all the vision anet had with those pvp modes in GW1 but failed to implement properly for one reason or another. It is a truly remarkable game that I and may others play every single day to the exclusion of nearly all other GW2. And to be clear, that is not a shot at GW2 pve or other pvp modes, which imo also were done very well, it's just validation of the poster's points that you're asking about.

Which doesn't necessarily fix the casual PvP formats. It simply introduces a new type of format, which at best, improves upon the play found in JQ and FA. However, many die hard PvPers I have known have found that GW2 is hardly a PvP improvement (casual or otherwise) outside of WvW - and even WvW has had some significant problems.

No, it's way more than improved FA and JQ. And you did say casual pvp formats. If by hard core pvp'rs you mean gvg'rs, I agree, they're not real happy with GW2. There's nothing quite like gvg in GW2, but while I liked gvg I do not miss the baggage that went along with gvg at all.

I absolutely love FA and JQ and consider myself an expert at both but I really hate the WvW format in GW 2. It focuses too much on zergs and various inventory items (like blueprints and supplies). Also, it's just too big to be enjoyed casually; either you have a good server that will invest time to coordinate players over different time zones or you will be completely dominated by the others.

So no, I would never describe WvW to be an improved FA nor JQ.

By making it pay-to-win? That's what you consider a fix?

And yes, GW 2 offers players the option to pay-to-win. It doesn't mean that everybody has use it in order to get the best gear, but GW 2 allows players to exchange real money for in-game gold which can be traded for legendary weapons or exotics.

The only thing that I would have liked to see done in either game is to make certain items un-tradeable and make all other prices change based on supply and demand. So another thing that I like about GW 1 compared to GW 2 is that you can't trade armor, so it actually means something when you wear it.

Anyway, this all seems fairly pointless. If you like GW 2 more than GW 1 then go play GW 2, what are you doing on a GW 1 forum?

And, even though GW 1 is one of my favourite games, I don't mind admitting that GW 2 definitely has better graphics (but not significantly better, it just looks more artistic and organic), better voice acting and dialog, and the world in GW 2 feels more alive (possibly because of the dynamic events and the private message system, I'm not sure). However I can't play GW 2 any more because it's not fun for me. Yet, you don't see me going on the GW 2 forums and telling people how much better GW 1 is compared to GW 2.

What? WvW is not a combination at all. It is probably the only format in the game that is keeping the shrinking population playing.

The vision Anet had with GW1 PvP modes was implemented properly. GW2 PvP modes are solild examples of Anet tripping over itself and failing miserably to do anything competent after having a good amount of lucky success. Anet accidently made a great game with GW1. They became cocky and tried to make something different - And it has failed and continues to fail on a daily basis.

GW2 is not something that will stick. Once people have moved on, do you really see people coming back to play it like people come back to play GW1? It just isn't going to happen. GW2 is a passtime until something modern and GW1-esque comes out.

I wonder if Anet realizes if they applied GW2 graphics to GW1 and re-released GW1 that they would have a better game than GW2. lol

now THAT is something I would like to see. GW1, next expansion: updated graphics! (but you can keep the cheesy armors from gw2, please).

Before I go on my mini-rant here, I'd like to state that I enjoy GW2, quite a bit actually. But is is nowhere near the game that GW1 was, especially when it coms to PvP. I have yet to find a reason to PvP more than once in a while in GW2, where outside of GW2 I am a player that is dedicated almost exclusively to PvP. In GW2, I am a primarily PvE player, which I feel speaks volumes about GW2 PvP.

GW2 does not "fix" GW1's casual PvP formats. World versus World is arguably not fit for casual players because you use the same gear you do in PvE - thus it requires you to have level 80 exotics to contribute in a meaningful way. This, in turn, requires the player to grind (money, dungeon tokens, karma, etc). In GW1 you had JQ and FA, which did the same thing. However, they were not the only casual format. You had RA, but if you went in there with a PvE character you would experience the same thing: being restricted by what you have done in PvE/can or cannot use in PvP. Looking at it that way, GW1 casual PvP faced the same problems as GW2 WvW. But GW1 bypassed all these problems with PvP-only characters. You could create a character from the start that would be at max level, have max armor, and have all the skills, weapons, upgrades, runes, etc available to it. Those that you didn't initially start with were unlocked by playing more PvP, and while the "starting" skills were far from being the best bars, I don't think anyone would argue that there are no useful skills available to a PvP-only character upon creation.

GW2's Structured PvP is easier to get into than WvW, because you are at max level and have all skills, runes, sigils, weapons, etc available to you. You can also freely restructure your traits. This is the equivalent of GW1's PvP only characters, and it sounds great. And it would be, but GW2 sPvP falls flat on its face as a competitive format. But we're talking about casual players, right? We are, but casual players cannot support a game mode all by themselves, and there becomes a point when a casual player becomes at least slightly less casual and wants to focus on a specific game type. In GW2, sPvP-dedicated players are few because... it's just so bad. Conquest, the only game mode, is not contusive to any sort of serious competition. In addition, none of the maps allow for true strategy, though this is more of a fault of the conquest game mode than the maps themselves. This makes GW2 a noncompetitve game, but the biggest issue is the way GW2 is designed. In GW2 your first five skills are tied to your weapon, and the only real choice you have in your skills is the 3 utilities and the elite. This is problematic because with those 5 skills you are handing a skill bar to the player. There is no way to change the bar to a more optimal setup, and there is no real way to change your build to counter the current challenges. You can't remove a skill or two that you never use, and you can't add skills that would help you overcome a particular enemy player, or defend yourself better, etc. This is also not good for new players, who are not really creating their own builds but instead are being given what the developers see as the optimal skill setup for a weapon. The new player and the highly experienced player use the same bar, which sounds like it would mean that only player skill matters. However, this removes a different kind of skill from the equation; the skill to recognize what skills work best together and what skills should take priority on your bar over others. And then you have the auto attack. When auto attacking, the player isn't demonstrating any sort of skill, knowledge of PvP, or anything really. It's giving you something to do while you wait for your other skills to come off of cooldown. It's pretty much designed to keep you from getting bored, which shows that GW2 combat is pretty shallow. A game shouldn't need something to prevent you from getting bored, the game itself should be engaging enough so that you don't need fillers. You could even argue that GW1 combat was more dynamic - when you used certain skills really mattered, and your time was spent pressuring certain foes, interrupting others, watching the skills of your opponents to know which ones to use or not to use, etc. In GW2 it's use your skills, dodge, and then auto attack to prevent boredom. Many people also complain of the PvP meta in GW2 - which many see as the fault of the players rather than the game. Metas emerge in games because people desire the best and most efficient way to do things. This is natural, and when a game encourages diversity so that the "best" way to do things changes constantly or there are more than one way, it is a good thing. But in GW2 the best/most efficient way to win is to bunker. Sit there and eat all damage, all day long. It's ridiculous, and again player skill has little to no impact on it. The game is designed in a way that makes player skill irrelevant to match outcome, because bunkering is the way to go. For all the diversity that GW2 touts, it really isn't there, and especially not in PvP.

There is just so much less depth to GW2 that if anything it is a worse form of GW1's casual PvP formats.

I still hope they'll eventually be able to get a team for the last chapter of Beyond.

It'll be nice if it was when they add access to Elona in GW2, in a 10-year anniversary thing.

I highly doubt it as they recently stated that guild wars won't get any more updates except for automatisation and critical bug fixes. I know, anet promises are like political election promises, but this would be a broken promise to the good. Anyway, it would be a really great thing for a 10th year anniversary.

I don't want todays Anet that created RNG Wars 2 and completely abandoned guild wars to come back with a team and screw one of the only decent truly unique MMO out there, no thanks. IMO they can F off forever. I'll play this game like I play Diablo 2, until I die or the servers are taken out because the games are just that good.

GW2 is so garbage it makes me sick, idk how people could even say they took anything at all from GW and made it better. I see literally no similarities, even the lore has gone to shit. It's basically a bad WoW copy that went backwards in MMO development instead of forward. I mean really, removing healers and any half decent support classes leaving a giant DPS zerg fest with almost zero team work, it's a god damn free for all particle spam fest and the pvp is the worst I've ever seen or played.

The combat and skill system is so stale I could fall asleep to it.

I still can't believe how bad they messed this game up, I hope they never make a 3 this company needs to die.

Sincerely, disgruntled ex-ANet fanboi

To be fair, it's a pretty different team now. Mike O'Brien is still at the helm but they lost Jeff Strain and others a while back - plus they have grown a lot. It is often said that GW was an accidental success, but part of it was down to the vision ANet had back then, which is completely different now with people like Colin Johansson in charge. Not to mention the new business strategy of milking microtransactions, which means content is added in small packets and the game (GW2) isn't very rewarding loot-wise. Bringing the current team back to work on GW wouldn't be that great, in my opinion, unless they were just going to add more PvE content similar to the rest of GW: Beyond. Anything that is to be paid for is likely to go wrong.

couldnt agree more. While I would really REALLY like to see them actually finish up what they started, I really dont want the pay2play/jumpingpuzzles/noneed4creativity group finishing up whats left to do.
Perhaps just a book about what happened to the mad king and his court, what happened to elona and just what did evinnia do in ascalon, just so I have a feeling of completion (they way they have left it now is kinda like canceling your favorite tv show/drama in the middle of the last season on a cliff hanger!).
(and please revert the teleport skills and get rid of exhaustion--ah, overcast on breath of fire, stupid stupid idea).

Okay, agree about the jumping puzzles. But as to the rest I guess us GW fans are just gonna have to agree to disagree. And to the unhinged diablo 2 dude, "almost zero team work"? You simply have not played it.

Didn't want to create a new thread so I'm posting here. How much effort do you think it would take to add the BMP zones into the game as just regular zones? That's (sort of) content right?

Please, enlighten me on how GW2 takes teamwork, other than the obvious 3 war 1mes guardian zerker party which has been meta since the game came out because pve is completely and utterly broken, more so than GW1 EVER was lol. Even after the quickness nerf it's still totally broke.

CoF runs take like less than 5 minutes and it's all pure DPS, same with every single other thing in the game. Seriously, tell me where the team work is. Show me the support, backline, midline, etc. without completely gimping your party.

Open world events are a joke, even more zergy than dungeons and don't tell me you can have team work in a group of 40+ just sitting there with autoattack on and pressing whatever AoE they have at the hopes they get as many loot bags as possible for that piss-poor loot in the game.

I hope you don't plan on bringing up combo fields because those are hardly team work at all, completely passive mostly accidental buffs other than splash heal the only true decent combo finisher besides might stack.

The others are useless and a waste of time to purposely activate because 10x more DPS would come from just autoattack alone instead of using a weak move merely for the finish effect.

I have played a shit ton of GW2, I know exactly what I'm talking about fyi.

It's basically a single player every man for himself game with online, I guess you could defend active team support in GW2 with one thing, reviving lol..
I suppose excellent teamwork can also be seen when everyone and their mother skips 99% of dungeon content to rush to the bosses to down them in 3 seconds. Crap I was wrong my apologies! 10/10 excellently designed game would recommend to the world.

CoF speed runs and open world bosses are the equivalent of 55 farming, and in that respect, it does take more teamwork and skill. Apples to apples.

yea, try asking for more stories without them adding more content in GW, so GW2 gets it again

really, so many things GW people wanted, and GW2 got it (like pets having own skills and alot more)

you ask for more stories about mad king and elona, and guess what....
GW2 gets mad king story and the elona story will probably be in their elona expansion.... IF they bother giving GW2 expansions, as they have no plans for that now

source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upco...tures#Products

but yea, what we ask for in GW, they put in GW2
i wonder if its good to actually have a "suggestion" section, other than people wanting to share their ideas, that is (yea, lets keep it in case)

i'm afraid they are too proud of their newer game, to update their older game
which would be nice to alot of people, and if they wanna keep GW up (which i hope they will)

i dont think its smart to leave GW as it is, IF they could actually get more money off of people by releasing more new content

we'll just have to see now, as i see GW being more attractive to so many people (new players and people with old accounts, like myself)

Open World Bosses don't need any team work. 70 People standing there letting their auto attack kill the boss while going afk isn't team work. And to be honest: While CoF and 55 HP takes no effort to execute, the guy who came up with 55 HP was a genius. It's also strange to compare CoF and 55 HP in regard's of team work because you compare speed clear with a group vs solo farming. Solo farming just don't exist in gw2 that way because of skillsystem, lootsystem, DR and such. That being said, for a team farm CoF is very little team work; it only has some buffs (Banner, Speed Bubble) to buff the DPS (and that is all that matters). Even Duo UW with 55 HP and SS had more team synergies, lol.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I was talking about wvw, which was what I posted about earlier in the thread and thought you were commenting about. So you were talking about pve? That I truly do not get. Neither game's pve requires much in the way of teamwork. Certainly not GW1 with the advent of heroes. You got a problem with fast COF runs, but I guess you're ok with UW and FoW speed clears? w/e

The problem with pve which REQUIRES strong teamwork is you're at the mercy of who you can muster at any given time. Can't get enough at all, or the right class composition, and you're screwed. But you know all that already, and that anet designed GW2 so that monk strikes would not shut down pve, so that pve wasn't totally dependent on lfg, etc. You don't like it, that's fine, we all don't like some games. Why you're so bitter is completely beyond me though.

anet should die? Good God man, go get some fresh air, shoot some hoops, watch a movie, play ANOTHER game maybe. How long did you think the GW ride would last? It's a freaking game, not some monument. At least you can still play it at all (on breaks from diablo 2?), give anet credit for that. They have no financial interest in maintaining those servers, and arguably have some motivation to shut them down in the hope of getting a few more customers for their current income stream. Yeah I know, what you were told when you paid for the game, blah, blah, blah. I get everyone here wishing for more content, I'd probably come back and check it out myself. But why would that happen, why would you expect it? This is not a charitable enterprise. Take a big gulp of reality and enjoy what you can. You are entitled to zero.

Lol, you sound a little mad considering you are throwing subtle insults (btw I took a break from my 9 year D2 marathon to reply to this!)

GW2 sucks, fact. GG no re-

lol indeed....

I decide to come back to GwG after years to see what's up and I find this...
and I agree 100%. GW2 is a disgrace and the fact that it's supposed to be a sequel to GW is insulting.

I tried to like GW2 but after I reached level 80 and maxed out my gear neither the story nor the PvP could compel me to keep playing. I quit in late November. I still log on from time to time but I simply end up staring at the screen for 5 minutes and then logging off (and playing something else). It has nothing that kept me playing GW for upwards of 4000 hours over 8 years...

I could write a book about everything I dislike about GW2 It's a bad joke to those who truly loved the unique GW formula.

Whoa, and I thought I was the only one...

You seem to have left out the part where I admit I was disgruntled lol? Btw I never started throwing insults at people, idc if you like the game, I was just pointing out obvious faults. And GW1 is a monument to great gaming, it's a game that was part of many of our lives for over 7 years. Don't pretend something like that is "just a game" because it's not that simple.

It's not my life, nor the end of the world that they no longer support it but it IS an insult, and I DO feel entitled to at least some of what they spouted, which is now confirmed to be 100% lies.

Many of us would have no issue with GW2 if it weren't for their convincing us they, and I quote, took everything we loved about GW1 and put it into a fully persistent world. Lol. Point me towards any gamer that wouldn't be ticked off about that. I have moved on, ESO is my next gaming "home" base but GW will always be a big part of my childhood, I was 15 during beta.

GW definitely had its faults, but GW2 is a colossal failure in my eyes. ANet rode us hard, kinda how D3 did purely on reputation alone and that game turned out to be dog shit. It's what happens when you throw your base community away and try to appeal to a completely different crowd.

When GW2 wasn't out yet people on MMO champion, guru, etc. posted in the forums asking how ANet should be perceived. Of course we fans replied "best dev team ever, they are gamers and understand gamers." boy were we wrong. GW fans got shafted and what's just as bad, so did people that come from MMO's like WoW.

There isn't even proper end game, it's pure grind and farming is a hardcore chore due to abysmal drops. Dungeons are 5 player max and you are basically soloing with just DPS. I have a ton of friends and family that came from those bigger MMOs and they dropped out the first month.

They're trying to appease to multiple crowds and as anyone experienced in MMO's knows, that has fail written all over it, though Blizzard has found a good middle ground they are a big enough company, with enough experience. They should have stuck with the original fanbase, but I suppose this way makes them more money so financially it was a smart move. Still, lying is low. way low.

"we don't make grindy games" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

I still laugh that they added vertical progression too... I could go on but I tire of this. "Squire! Bring me my coffee!"

Yes.It is a different game as it doesn't resemble the original in shape or form even place names have been changed.It why a lot of the older/Vets players aren't playing it.It had to attract a new playerbase.

I would say as along as it Face book page is getting entries it will be around for some time.

I'm a happy bunny

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...d-last-forever

Ah, iteration, ArenaNet's favourite buzzword. Hopefully as they mature as a company they'll realise that completely tearing apart a successful foundation was a mistake. With the experience of two games under their belt, they'll be able to say: "Let's take everything that worked, and make it even better." And Guild Wars 3 will be the perfect synthesis.

In the meantime Guild Wars is still their better product and runs on fewer resources. The more people keep playing it and/or leaving Guild Wars 2, the sooner ArenaNet will get the message.

Agreed here. Back in 2005 when GW1 debuted, the MMO scene was quite different. WoW was still in its infancy, and you only had the old school "hardcore" games like UO or the sandbox VWs like Second Life, SWG, and Eve to choose from. GW1's accidental success was only an accident in that Anet created a game that was a different design from all the others and it was something that appealed to many different types of gamers. Had they stuck with their original vision, things would have turned out much differently (for the better, I should add).

The problem of trying to appeal to too many different players began to rear its ugly head in GW1 - the various nerfs/buffs and the implementation of hardmode. It is unfortunate that they continued with that concept and expanded upon it in GW2, because, as you said, that is a recipe for disaster as just about every other MMO to have come out since 2005 has learned the hard way.

Do I hate GW2? No - it is simply a game that does not appeal to me and I did not enjoy playing (at least as much as GW1 and the other MMOs I am still involved with). I think what we have here, and what I feel most, is disappointment with Anet. They had a truly innovative and unique design (GW2 is neither, despite what all the fanbois were touting before release), that they abandoned to become more mainstream. It's a shame that the original Anet has changed so much that we will never really be able to hope for a better or more improved version of GW (much like BioWare has changed and we will never see the great RPGs of old coming from them).

That's what bothers most of us GW1 fanbois, I think, in addition to what else you mention. Look at the GW2 manifesto. Recall all the hype and PR speak they were spouting for 5 years of development. Take those first 3-4 years and compare it to what was eventually released. Almost as different as GW2 is to GW1. That is where the disappointment and lack of faith with Anet has stemmed. My disappointment comes from Anet's lack of ability to grab on to their unique and original concept and run with it for the modern age. I think the gaming world lost a lot when they decided to abandon their original visions and ideas in favor of the GW2 design.

There's something we agree on. Look, I get where you're coming from even if I can't agree with you that GW2 is bad. It's different from GW1 in a lot of ways, but I expected that, it was intended to be different to deal with problems that appeared in the GW1 model. Most choices will be questioned by some segment of the player base. You don't like the dungeons being limited to 5, I really don't like them at all. But plenty of the rest I like a lot. If you think there was insult in any of my comments (well, maybe the D2 thing qualifies), I apologize fort that. It just bothers me that the place where I'm sure to find the harshest criticism of my fav game is a GW site I used to frequent with fellow fans to discuss my fav game.

GW 2 maybe taking the scene at the cost of GW with no new content for GW.The money they are getting from GW maybe helping to fund GW2 as they don't have as near as much customers as they once had when GW first came out.

@Martin it does take more teamwork in GW than GW2.

Stats from Guru2 # of users
68509 Total Members

Guru users
Members: 235,655

Stats don't lie GW is far bigger than GW2 will ever be.

8 years vs almost 11 months. If forum membership was ever a good indicator of game popularity anyways.

Actually, now I'm curious, what was Guild Wars Guru's membership in the first year of Guild Wars launch?