Kickstarter for Guild Wars 1? Could Work? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

26 Apr 2013 at 06:44 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayson

You MUST be speaking in code because I don't understand what "give missing the point" is. Do you have a crystal ball that tells you exactly how much an expansion would make? Where'd you get $100,000? Pulling numbers out of this air isn't exactly solid evidence. Unless renovating houses gives you some deeper understanding into the business and cost of developing content for video games?

The answer closer to the truth would be what I previously said. It depends on how many players are willing to pay for new content. All Anet has to do is ask the players on their forums and fansites. Ask on the login screen to see if people are still there to play. People are still in this game after 8 years with no new content. Imagine how many would be here if a new campaign was in the works.

Give them something to come back to and see what happens.

See what happens? That is the WORST business model in he history of business models.
I don't have time to explain it to you. You can take the donkey to the water, but you can't make him drink it.

Game developers and programmers are gamers themselves. They love games. The people who run Anet are accountable to their shareholders. Shareholders are not gamers. They don't play games, they just care about their money.

/sigh
/give up
/slit wrists

Max

Mintha Syl

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2010

26 Apr 2013 at 08:26 - 122

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I greatly enjoyed the mesmer and dervish updates. The elementalist update brought some weak things that didn't transfer over so well and an odd Ash Blast nerf, but it helped heroes and got me out just spamming Infuse Health.

I don't know what you think of the elementalist update. Your past posts don't give much detail about particular skills or the update.

I enjoyed mesmer update, even though went too much towards power creep. I have mixed feelings on the dervish one, sure they made the class better than it was though. Elementalist? The first part was decent, and did great with water elites that were useless before. But the second part, I could have done without. I know a lot of people who stopped playing ele after that update and I can't stand the new mechanic. I also didn't like WoC at all while we are at it.
And then they started doing totally unneeded nerfs to single skills, like Leech Signet and Teleports in general.
But the point is not so much what they did in the past, but more what they'd do now, since a lot of changes in the staff happened. When Mesmer and Dervish updates were done the team was different, when first part of ele update was done they still cared a tiny bit. Plus, changing the paragon could probably make it no worse, but if they manage to ruin ranger, it will probably be the time I stop playing.

But this all is a bit OT, aren't we talking about adding content? I don't think class overhauls are included in the request.

Schmerdro

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

Canada

N/

26 Apr 2013 at 17:19 - 123

Max, "business logic" is a highly subjective term. Just as scientists can have differences of opinion, so do businessmen. I think you're underestimating the complexity of this issue. But that's all irrelevant because businesses can sometimes do things for moral reasons, such as supporting political issues involving racism, gay marriage, abortion etc. Logically, if all companies truly cared about nothing but increasing their profits, then no company would ever get involved in social-political issues.

Bottom line is companies do what they want and I think it's quite presumptuous of an outsider to assume that they fully understand the decisions of a private entity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintha Syl

aren't we talking about adding content? I don't think class overhauls are included in the request.

While I still don't believe that any of this will happen, I was hoping that a Paragon, Ranger, or Smiting Monk class overhaul would indeed be included. I certainly don't believe that they will ever add any new professions, new skills or any major story-lines, as big as the story in Factions or Nightfall.

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

26 Apr 2013 at 18:06 - 124

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

But that's all irrelevant because businesses can sometimes do things for moral reasons, such as supporting political issues involving racism, gay marriage, abortion etc.

Yes, racism, gay marriage and abortion are the same thing as writing another expansion for a computer game. Absolutely no difference there between tackling hate crimes and coding a mountain range in a computer generated map. Making another expansion is as important as clearing national debt or stopping the Rise of terrorism.

Really?

Just looking at the big picture. Anet has other things to be doing. More profitable things.

Max

ACWhammy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2009

Texas

Gold Trim Guild [gtg]

R/

26 Apr 2013 at 19:00 - 125

I'm really enjoying this thread! Let's keep the debate going! I heard from a little birdie that if it reaches 667 posts we will get a new expansion! yay!

Schmerdro

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

Canada

N/

26 Apr 2013 at 19:58 - 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxBorken

Anet has other things to be doing. More profitable things.

I just said that companies get involved in social-political issues, an action that can be unprofitable. Therefore companies care about things OTHER than making money, namely things concerning morality. You've been saying the EXACT same thing for the last 6 posts. We get it, Max, you've repeated your opinion enough times. If you're annoyed that nobody is listening to you it's either because they don't value your opinion or they disagree with it. Either way, you can't do anything about it, so either say something new or change the subject.

By the way, whenever these kinds of project are being discussed, people always bring up Kickstarter but not Indiegogo, Gambitious, Rockethub or other crowd-funding services. And I'm not even sure which would be the best to use in this specific circumstance but I would really like it if people would start saying "let's try crowd-funding GW" instead of "let's try Kickstarting GW." Just a thought.

baal80

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Poland

None

R/A

26 Apr 2013 at 21:58 - 127

While not directly related to the subject, I highly suggest you guys to watch this: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...-To-Make-Money

Might be an eye opener for some of you

Wise Watchman

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Manchester, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

Mo/

26 Apr 2013 at 22:44 - 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by baal80

While not directly related to the subject, I highly suggest you guys to watch this: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...-To-Make-Money

Might be an eye opener for some of you

That was a fine speech.

I'd like to see more content for our beloved, but my expectations are very low.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

26 Apr 2013 at 23:38 - 129

can someone sum that up for those of us barely able to load guru let alone a video...(laptop is not THAT good, really).

Schmerdro

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

Canada

N/

26 Apr 2013 at 23:45 - 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by baal80

While not directly related to the subject, I highly suggest you guys to watch this: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...-To-Make-Money

In case you don't have 6 minutes to watch it, he's criticising companies that "withhold DLC, ship payable content on game discs, use DRM, charge for cheat codes, try to cripple the used-games market, put free-to-play business models in $60 games, put out less content at higher prices and employ other get-rich-quick schemes" simply because "companies exist to make money," which supposedly invalidates any opposing argument. His point is that "you can make money without being an f-ing prick" and just because something has a purpose for existing, doesn't mean it's immune to criticism.
And yeah, I love the Jimquisition too

jayson

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

27 Apr 2013 at 01:52 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxBorken

See what happens? That is the WORST business model in he history of business models.
I don't have time to explain it to you. You can take the donkey to the water, but you can't make him drink it.

/sigh
/give up
/slit wrists

Max

Asking questions isn't a business model. Where in the world did you come up with that conclusion? The reason why you don't have time to explain is because there's nothing to explain. Asking questions, doing surveys and research is what helps companies determine whether or not a certain course of action is wise. GW is well past that stage. People have been asking for content for years. Have you had your head in the sand?

Quote:

Game developers and programmers are gamers themselves. They love games. The people who run Anet are accountable to their shareholders. Shareholders are not gamers. They don't play games, they just care about their money.

Ummm.. thank you for the obvious statement?

It's amazing how you make these statements and yet can't even grasp what you're saying. GW is cheaper and quicker to develop for as stated by Anet themselves and already has an installed playerbase. look at the release times for campaigns vs the dev time for GW2.

GW2 was in development for 4-5 years and dug itself a pretty big hole. They came out saying they sold 3 million copies and yet on a game sales site, only 1.72 million copies show as shipped. So either they lied or almost half of the players asked for a refund. The worst part about GW2 is the game still isn't even finished. From my understanding even simple things like emotes still don't work.

So yeah, shareholders care about money so most of them know that cheaper and quicker garners more profit then a game that had a lengthy development cycle that isn't doing as well as they claim.

We're done here.

Quote:

can someone sum that up for those of us barely able to load guru let alone a video...(laptop is not THAT good, really).

The jist of it is that making money as a business is ok but there's a limit on how much you can charge and how badly you can treat your customers. I'm sure others can add to this.

Reformed

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2009

27 Apr 2013 at 02:48 - 132

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayson

GW2 was in development for 4-5 years and dug itself a pretty big hole. They came out saying they sold 3 million copies and yet on a game sales site, only 1.72 million copies show as shipped. So either they lied or almost half of the players asked for a refund. The worst part about GW2 is the game still isn't even finished. From my understanding even simple things like emotes still don't work.

They released to stores what was basically a really late beta and have been ironing out the kinks "world polishing" ever since. There are about a half dozen emotes in the game. Notably capes are absent but an update in a couple days is supposed to add these ugly flag pole banner looking things. Can't comment on the sales figures but that's pretty interesting if its true.

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

27 Apr 2013 at 03:38 - 133

GW2 is a worthless, unsatisfying game. GW is outdated simply because there is no new content, but as Reformed has said, the current dev team (post-eotn, really) has been moving the game into the wrong direction. The problem now is it has just stagnated in this bad state, and the elementalist update part 2 was just the nail in the coffin.

They either need to allow private servers as a service to their fans, or purify some of the terrible skill balances and maybe re-think some of the things they've done recently (such as renaming exhaustion with overindulgence or was it lethargy)

This kickstarter thing, I don't really understand what you're hoping for. Is it more nostalgia? I recently went back and watched an episode of sonic the hedgehog. Pretty bad, but that's what GW is now since Anet neglected it to an irrepairable state. Mainly because their reputation has been tarnished and their dev team is not up to the standard of pre-GW2.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

27 Apr 2013 at 03:55 - 134

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayson

GW2 was in development for 4-5 years and dug itself a pretty big hole. They came out saying they sold 3 million copies and yet on a game sales site, only 1.72 million copies show as shipped.

VGChartz doesn't account for digital distribution at all.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

27 Apr 2013 at 04:38 - 135

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintha Syl

Elementalist? The first part was decent, and did great with water elites that were useless before. But the second part, I could have done without. I know a lot of people who stopped playing ele after that update and I can't stand the new mechanic.

Can't stand what new mechanic? What was it about the mechanic? What did it do? So vague.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintha Syl

I don't think class overhauls are included in the request.

A lot of things were mentioned.

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

27 Apr 2013 at 06:30 - 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayson

Asking questions isn't a business model. Where in the world did you come up with that conclusion? The reason why you don't have time to explain is because there's nothing to explain. Asking questions, doing surveys and research is what helps companies determine whether or not a certain course of action is wise. GW is well past that stage. People have been asking for content for years. Have you had your head in the sand?

Ummm.. thank you for the obvious statement?

It's amazing how you make these statements and yet can't even grasp what you're saying. GW is cheaper and quicker to develop for as stated by Anet themselves and already has an installed playerbase. look at the release times for campaigns vs the dev time for GW2.

GW2 was in development for 4-5 years and dug itself a pretty big hole. They came out saying they sold 3 million copies and yet on a game sales site, only 1.72 million copies show as shipped. So either they lied or almost half of the players asked for a refund. The worst part about GW2 is the game still isn't even finished. From my understanding even simple things like emotes still don't work.

So yeah, shareholders care about money so most of them know that cheaper and quicker garners more profit then a game that had a lengthy development cycle that isn't doing as well as they claim.

We're done here.

The jist of it is that making money as a business is ok but there's a limit on how much you can charge and how badly you can treat your customers. I'm sure others can add to this.

Oh for the love of god.
MY head in the sand? Get a grip.

Anet has made a decision based on real-world issues and reasons. No amount of blurry-eyed dreamers who want playing a freakin fantasy game to be more important than real world business can change that. Stop living in your dream world. You cannot change their decision. Grow up and stop the fantasy. Who do you actually think you are to think you can influence them? Are you so deluded to believe that a bunch of gamers with a fantasy idea can influence a multi-billion dollar organisation?

Grow up and realise that you're not important to them, and stop wasting your life on fantasy. It's not gonna happen.

And yes, we are done here because I can't be bothered to do this any more - you clearly have delusions over your position in this issue.

Also, I'm on the verge of insulting you, which would do no one any good.

Just please get a grip.

Max

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

27 Apr 2013 at 12:31 - 137

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxBorken

Oh for the love of god.
MY head in the sand? Get a grip.

Anet has made a decision based on real-world issues and reasons. No amount of blurry-eyed dreamers who want playing a freakin fantasy game to be more important than real world business can change that. Stop living in your dream world. You cannot change their decision. Grow up and stop the fantasy. Who do you actually think you are to think you can influence them? Are you so deluded to believe that a bunch of gamers with a fantasy idea can influence a multi-billion dollar organisation?

Grow up and realise that you're not important to them, and stop wasting your life on fantasy. It's not gonna happen.

And yes, we are done here because I can't be bothered to do this any more - you clearly have delusions over your position in this issue.

Also, I'm on the verge of insulting you, which would do no one any good.

Just please get a grip.

Max

Max, dear boy, I fear you are the one who is deluded. I will most likely never play or purchase anything from Anet after the disservice I have been given here. A lot of people were disappointed with the quality of GW2, not to mention the design is subpar to GW if it *was* perfect. Their lies and lack of care to their customers don't earn them favours, and these are issues in their current game.

Sure, you can sit there spouting about business decisions, but you have to ask yourself, "how many people after long will remain interested in a broken game?" And just look at other developers who listened to their fans and had great things happen. Dark Souls port, Demon Souls server remaining online forever, same with Everquest. Runescape had a major server rollback due to a fan petition too.

What does Anet do? They don't allow anyone to touch their game, they think it's "art" and should only be played one way and that way is very poorly. They spent more money marketing the game than developing it and as a result, it was successfully bad. They pretend to listen to their community, but when it comes to any fan service, that is not part of their plan to be influenced by us.

Cast your minds back to that interview with Guru2fags and that spokesman, who had to break the spell and say "sorry, we're not adding anything else from GW. We made that game and it's dead to us now. No guild halls, no decent PvP, synergy a shit, kthxbai."

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

27 Apr 2013 at 12:50 - 138

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

What does Anet do? They don't allow anyone to touch their game, they think it's "art" and should only be played one way and that way is very poorly. They spent more money marketing the game than developing it and as a result, it was successfully bad. They pretend to listen to their community, but when it comes to any fan service, that is not part of their plan to be influenced by us.

Cast your minds back to that interview with Guru2fags and that spokesman, who had to break the spell and say "sorry, we're not adding anything else from GW. We made that game and it's dead to us now. No guild halls, no decent PvP, synergy a shit, kthxbai."

Ah ha. That's kind if what I was trying to get accross

It doesn't make any difference what any fans do or say etc, its not gonna happen. The reasons why aren't actually important here, but that's where I got stuck banging my head against that wall. Anet had made up its mind, and that's that.
Thanks for saying it better than I could

Max

Razer.blue

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2009

[King]

09 May 2013 at 11:51 - 139

All the above is nonsence. It is a 20th century way of reasoning. We no longer live in a golden age where multinational companies can afford everything. GW2's success isn't everlasting and moreover if they don't show even a slight interest in their customers they will go down eventually.

Also, the power of a group can achieve a lot. But the group as it right now is by far not large enough.

Wannagotoheaven

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2011

GMT+1

E/

09 May 2013 at 18:22 - 140

I wish something could come out of this as I'm one of those who played gw2 and found it lackluster compared to gw1.

Also why do people keep on comparing gw1 sales to gw2 sales? GW2 build itself on what gw1 achieved. If gw1 never existed it wouldn't have had as much succes.
Just look at diablo 3. I sold extremely well because diablo 2 was such a big hit.
So of course gw2 has sold a lot of copies, but looking at all their updates I doubt it will continue. I wish we had numbers to units sold over the past few months to see how things are really going.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

10 May 2013 at 22:47 - 141

I would say it is possible.It would be sort of like kickstarting a TV series from 2005 eg. ThirdWatch it all depends if the cast is willing.

Stealth Assassin

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Florida

Rt/Me

15 May 2013 at 18:25 - 142

@MaxBorken: Your attitude is terrible, if everyone in the world was like you, nothing would get done. We have had people exist on this planet, that, with the proper support, have successfully fought an entire GOVERNMENT to get something done. In the video game sense, look at Runescape. The devs reverted the game to it's 2007 state, and made separate servers for the people who wanted to play that. That happened because enough people opened their mouths and said they liked the old school Runescape better!

Thank you to those who are trying to make efforts to bring a new expansion to Guild Wars. I'm a supporter on FB/twitter

MaxBorken

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2009

London UK

Teh Academy [PhD]. Officer. Gentleman

W/N

15 May 2013 at 20:40 - 143

Lets wait and see then.

If this scheme actually works, I'll eat my words and apologise.

If it doesn't then I won't

Max

fadekill

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2012

24 May 2013 at 14:52 - 144

I'm not on FB or Twitter (and I won't make an account) so I can't support it that way. But I would definately in for a kickstarter campaign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wannagotoheaven

I wish something could come out of this as I'm one of those who played gw2 and found it lackluster compared to gw1.

Also why do people keep on comparing gw1 sales to gw2 sales? GW2 build itself on what gw1 achieved. If gw1 never existed it wouldn't have had as much succes.
Just look at diablo 3. I sold extremely well because diablo 2 was such a big hit.
So of course gw2 has sold a lot of copies, but looking at all their updates I doubt it will continue. I wish we had numbers to units sold over the past few months to see how things are really going.

2 Weeks ago there was a report of NCSoft that they are not satisfied with the GW2 sales and the money they are getting out of it and pressing for a new Addon. While it's pretty normal that a sequel sells out more int the first few month it sounded more like that the sell rates dropped way more than expected.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

24 May 2013 at 18:56 - 145

Quote:

Originally Posted by fadekill

2 Weeks ago there was a report of NCSoft that they are not satisfied with the GW2 sales and the money they are getting out of it

Well I think we all saw that coming miles away.

WoW clones fail. It's just the way things are. Anet shoves persistent areas in their game, what a surprise, people who like persistent areas would rather just stay in WoW and the GW audience feels alienated. Same with killing off focused roles like the Monk and trying to make everyone a jack of all trades.

The cluttered art style didn't help either.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

25 May 2013 at 15:56 - 146

If you created any sort of crowd-funding project, or made it F2P, people would go for it, definitely. With all its shortcoming it's still a great game.
And there's way older games that had less players before going F2P with some attention given to them for now.

But the it's highly unlikely they'll ever complete the last Beyond chapter, or Utopia, or make it F2P.

I would recommend revisiting this in some time years. When the game is 9 years old.

I think it would be really nice having Elona's beyond and GW2's Elonian expansion happening at the same time, in some sort of 10th anniversary celebration.

own age myname

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Minnesota

[TAS]

R/

03 Jun 2013 at 00:10 - 147

Anyone remember GWLP? That project was even approved by Gaile, it's a private server type of deal. If some talented developers would take up that open-source project again maybe we could be on to something. ANet is going to do anything, that's a cold hard fact that we learned 4 years ago; it's not changing. Use the freedom of open-source is the way to go.

Hanok Odbrook

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Tyria

Real Millennium Group

Mo/N

24 Jun 2013 at 14:50 - 148

While admirable, I just don't see this happening. NCSoft shut down CoX regardless of the player and fan backlash. Ultimately it comes down to this - how many people are willing to start from scratch, because NCSoft and Anet are not going to suddenly pull people away from the new baby to take care of grandpa. I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Kickstarter is not a valid sustainable business model. At best, the only hope is for something like SWGemu.

Why do WoW clones fail? Well, the reasons are many, but one of the biggies is having to start from scratch in a brand new game. Why do we want to ensure the future of Guild Wars? Because of the time we have invested playing this game. All the time is for naught if, regardless of the iteration, we have a Guild Wars game that sets us back to square one.

Unless I can import all my characters, Items, and progress into a new GW game and be assured of being able to play it whenever and for as long as I want (a la a single-player off-line version), then I have no interest in supporting or playing anything else. I can start from scratch in any new MMO (and have already). I have no interest in doing so for a game I have already invested 8+ years of my life. I would just rather move on and continue playing my new games of choice.

tw1tchdp

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

[CKIE]

W/Me

24 Jun 2013 at 21:52 - 149

An interesting thing to me would be for these week events to be a little more, interesting? I mean come on going thru the list of the 2 months or so of events it has been a nightmare other than AB and kinda sorta HA.. I dont see why they need to be so expansive and try and cover all aspects of the game [this weeks event set me off]

fadekill

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2012

25 Jun 2013 at 06:56 - 150

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw1tchdp

An interesting thing to me would be for these week events to be a little more, interesting? I mean come on going thru the list of the 2 months or so of events it has been a nightmare other than AB and kinda sorta HA.. I dont see why they need to be so expansive and try and cover all aspects of the game [this weeks event set me off]

I think it's just you. You don't have to be hooked up for the event every week. I especially like how the events try to cover every aspect of the game. RA shortens the waiting time (though it was not really long before) and free UW/Riss means enjoying solo farming there once again (just for the fun).