Heroes' Ascent - Make it random

Indeed, forgot about that.. Brilliant

Totally disagree with this post. Rank reqs. to enter a district = rank discrimination, even worse, it's encouraged by Anet by setting this districts.

And yes, there are a lot of begginers, I have no problems with playing with unexperienced players, however, when you make a group, you can't compromise the other 6 people in your party by letting a less experienced player into the team. It is unfair for the other 6 people you know? besides, you wouldn't be able to, because as you explain, they wouldn't be able to be in the same district anyways.

People have to understand, that getting fame and rank IS SUPPOSED to be hard and challenging, otherwise ranks would be worthless.

The difference to make your party win/lose is in yourself and is something you have to work towards to. And everyone knows it's hard, however, it's something not many (if not most) manage to work around.

Alright, I'm just going to point a few things out here. I don't normally post, but when I do its because I feel that something essential is missing from the conversation.

Why are you people even responding to this thread anymore? Props to JR for breaking down exactly why this idea would never be possible, let alone even considered by ANet, but in my opinion, no post was even necessary at all. I'm not trying to flame here, but anyone who wants to run a Fire Nuker in tombs, unless they've got a really really really strage Ward Against Foes/Deep Freeze thing going on (OH NOES! ORGANIZATION!!1ONE) is going to get owned in the face. This said, please, PLEASE go and make one! Then join a group for Random Arenas and see how it does there. When you kill absolutely nothing for several rounds in a row, you'll know the build sucks and you'll move on. Why again should HoH be the platform for this kind of garbage?

Random Arenas is where you can go if you have a cool build idea you just want to try. You don't need a team of eight to try a one man build. If the build turns out to be 1337, then damn, you think you might, MAYBE get in a tombs group? NO WAI!!

And please don't give me the response, "Well, the fire nuker was a joke" because whether it was or not, the facts are still there. Got a new build you want to try out? Go to Random. That's why its there. If it owns, then you'll get in a smart group in tombs that will recognize its ownage.

Oh, and here's a hint. PVE is NOT equal to PVP.

Here's another one, Random Arenas with 4 People is NOT equal to a multi-way battle with parties of 8.

This is the elitist attitude that causes people to leave groups without reasons and why people never learn that their build isn't half decent.

Its true that its not the same, but if you're build doesn't work in Random, its DAMN sure not going to work in Tombs.

This message is a flame, if you dont like it dont read it:






GO PLAY RANDOM ARENA NOOB...

How can you tell, groups of 8 are not Random groups of 4 X 2 because other classes are added on for more functionality, IWAY doesn't work well in Random, yet you get tons of rants for certain guilds that use them that take HoH
Not to mention 2 people that have organized together with complementing skills (an ele with a water slowdown hex and another ele with lightning touch to take advantage of it) work better than 2 eles that organize seperately
Comparing builds from Random builds and testing its compatibility with a tombs group won't work.
And if one doesn't want to play Random Arena with the noobs you direct toward there but rather the Tombs?

Just busting your balls here and going off topic, but we run a fire nuker in our balanced build. Rodgorts Invoc, Meteor, Fireball with Martyr as the elite along with convert hexes is actually a really big asset to have around. I notice a lot of teams us an Earth Ele in the same role with Earthquake and Wards, but frankly I would rather sacrifice some of the Ward defense for a lot more pressure, especially in the current meta.

in my opinion, this is very good idea to help new players or even r0 players who play gvg and pve alot.

i met many r0 and they r better than r9 because they use and understand all skills they have not only specific skills.

-------

all players in tomb are like robots....no creativity at all...just use same skills

if u try to use another skills then u r noob, freak and idiot!!!!! weird

all those who r disagree with any idea to solve tomb pvp system because they r rank 6++...id say to them: u r not the only players in this game, if u dont want unraked players its up to you but dont say noooooooooooo!!! no need to fix or i hate iway...if u dont like iway then find another build or balanced team to play and i saw many anti-iway build.

nobody tells you to add unranked players...u dont have too but u cant prevent them from playing in tomb...let them get ranks as u did. u were r0 as well.

u can also play as guild team in tomb. just try to find anything wil fix this problem if u are experienced as u thought. dont tell us about ur negative vision. we dont need anything to disappoint us.

If you want to test builds, go do the Zeishan Challenges against random teams. Just make a mini-build of your 'normal' 8 vs 8 person build. Better hurry though before you can't do the challenges anymore!

I agree with marky 100% on this one...

Elitists attitudes suck, and...

We DO need a random tourney. No more dealing with IWAY (Not very good but you'd think after two months or so people might wanna try something new, NOPE) No more sitting around as a mesmer, necro, ritualist, assassin, or what the hell ever.

/signed

Well... I don't need to resort to running IWAY. So I look to see any of my friends doing Tombs, I say do you need a monk... I take my monk. GG?


BWE was an entirely different game to the one we have now, that wouln't work again now.

Well I'm not a scrub.. so I actually know people who play the game and start groups.

Guild Wars is entirely based on TEAM play, which completely negates your entire argument.

I don't agree, then it's no different than CA except with 4 more people on each team.

I do agree that something about Tombs DOES need to be changed, (get rid of IWAY).

It's actually HARD for people who aren't doing IWAY to get in a group, and even harder to get a GOOD group.

a 8 on 8 CA type tombs would be awsome

Yes, a random 8 player arena where you can earn fame sounds great, just don't replace Hero's Ascent with it.
Yeah, and people asking for the rank 3 emote are really annoying. You can't get fame to get that emote if every group in HA won't let you event earn it...

If you can earn Fame from any kind of random arena, Fame will be an even bigger joke than it already is. End of story.

Exactly. I'm not saying an 8 on 8 arena is neccasarily a bad idea. People who want to play in it and enjoy that kind of thing, could. Replacing HA with it is a completely silly idea however, considering the huge number of people who get a lot of enjoyment out of it as it is.

i dont like it.. your gunna have lower levels popping in.. we have that problem as it is in TA CA and even tombs..plus how can we have Guild Tombs..Tombs with experienced players: it will be people unexperinced..people just popping in to say hi...good players.. than those wishing that it never happened..

/notsigned.. just no.

/notsigned.

this is quite a sad thread. I know all of you are tired of not getting groups in tombs but theres a reason why your not in a group. i dont care how many of you have played since May or if you think your the best because you and ur team can beat Team Arenas over and over. Tombs is a different world.

if you want to get into groups, pay your dues. scrouge for groups or start one yourself.

i for one dont want tombs to be random because that is pure chaos. if i wanted that i would play CA.

I don't even have R3, I'm just above the beginning of R2. However, I usually don't do tombs in full PuGs unless someone is advertising an unusual (maybe fun) group, which I know probably doesn't have chances. I, instead will PM other players in my list (PvE and PvP players I have met) to start a group, then pick the last one or two from the district (helps to meet new people). I almost never pick anyone new who is advertising their rank, though. I don't know if rank is good or bad. I think the people that rely on rank to build their groups just don't have enough friends in the game (which they should if they've been playing well enough to get that much rank) to start their own party. If we run into an idiot (not read as n00b or unskilled, because that can be taught in time) that won't listen or goes haywire, well, the rest of the group is still there when I kick him.

In the past when I have picked randomly to fill our group, I've experienced people with higher rank lack the tolerance to stick with a group if things don't go well at first. Usually the last word from them would be n00bs before they quit (before the round is even over), much like people who quit in missions when things don't go perfect in pve. I'm sure there are tons of PvP players with high rank that don't do this (probably the majority), but I suspect that those do have enough friend and don't spend their time advertising LFG with so and so rank. In essence, rank may not mean too much at all. Those that have high rank and do well probably have friends (like I saw a poster (EDIT: It was JR I believe) says he PM's someone on his list, asks if they need a monk, and takes his monk). I like to pick up one or two people in the district just because it allows my list to grow a bit and may give someone a chance.

Like I said, though, I'm not even rank 3 and play PvE as well as PvP. I am not in the 100,000 dollar championship, either. I like the challenge, but sometimes I like to just have fun (even with stupid builds - aka atog and old-skool magic:tg theme builds that were fun). I am not a casual player (I play PvE too much to really be casual), but I do play PvP casually. So the quiestion about how this is handled by ANet (if it even needs to be) is more or less, are they targeting casual play or more hardcore play...

As far as suggestions (since I don't want to post without offering a suggestion), I think that varied arenas (read: effects/terrain) would be interesting instead of just straight build vs build. If you think it should be more like basketball (where the arena differences are minor), then this is already perfect for you. If you think it should be more like offroad racing, golf, or the likes, then varied arenas (not just looks, but effects on play) would be a nice alternate tournament, something similar to the various levels in Dragon's Lair in PvE, or the random/team arena where you encounter poison and/or lava, or quicksand in the GvG arena (desert isle). Now that would not only show a team's ability to design a build (or copy one), but to even adapt it to different arenas while fighting.

Of course I'm sure someone will say it's Player vs Player and that terrains (read: environments) belong in PvE. Well, then make it like a big basketball court with nothing in it but walls and go at it. An yeah, both sides have a few idiots here, a few ppl who want things like Burger King gives it to them with a few ppl on the other side who are indeed elitist asses. Unfortunately, when people from either side tell people to run off to another game or if they don't like it they can leave, it hurts the rest of us that enjoy the larger numbers of people here. Take a look at any massive world that's lost their userbase (aka ghost towns). Even whiners can be more useful than a henchie sometimes (and I really do mean sometimes lol).

As far as the elitism goes (I don't see it all the time, just like the burger king people in these forums), that is the quickest way to kill a game. Being elite does no good when you're the only one there. ANet has explained time and again they are targeting a wider audience than traditional massive games (the casual player). Though with the tourney and all going on in taipei, that may just be a statement of intent and not fact. Plz don't ask for proof of anything btw. If you want proof, send me a subpoena. This is a forum, not a courtroom. If something is outlandish, call them on it and let everyone else make up their minds. Calling for proof is almost as bad as Godwin's Law. If they are wrong and you don't have a strong enough argument to show they are wrong (and if you think that people will ACTUALLY believe them if they are so wrong), show the proof yourself to prove they are wrong.

I love the Battle Isles :-)

Your r7 right? Dude, if all you see is IWAY you need to better learn how to LFG.

I wanted to go to sleep 10 mins ago but now I have read this and just felt I needed to say something.

Really, if you want to run something different start your own team, you have the rank to do it. And I can go online with a Rt/R spirit spammer and get 'inside' tombs within half an hour. It isn't that hard.


To me it sounds like you create your charachter THEN lfg.

If you have so many unlocks, just spam about 'r7 anything lfg', get a group, THEN figure out what youre playing and re-roll. I have no idea how you got r7 and didn't figure that out. Oh, and I also recommend you get a guild :\.

I wouldn't mind an 8 way random battle where you can gain fame (slower than in actual tombs hopefully), on the tombs maps, but I sure as hell wouldn't play it.

really if your no one what your stance warrior you should start your group , if all people leave after few match , maybe it mean dont work.

Remember other player arent bot , they are real people who wish to win.

if you want USE your build and no one is willing to help you , that mean NO ONE WILL DO. Changing the system to force other people lose their time for you is egoisting , childish and stupid

The thought of 32 man Random Tomb battles makes my brain hurt, for fairly obvious reasons.

/nosign

Okay, in my previous post I overlooked on whether or not I think it should be seperate from Heroes Ascent, I do. Seriously though, to all of you who are against a separate one, what would it hurt? You still have your arranged team tombs. I remember when I got the game (loooooooong before random arenas were made crappy) my favorite thing to do in pvp was to just jump into the crag 8 vs. 8 (I think it was 8v8, been awhile) relic thingy and just have some semi mass pvp fun with 15 random players. Due to the aforementioned destruction of random arenas, and the FOTM crap (someone make a new one, for God's sake it's been like two months that all you idiots have been doing the same IWAY build.) pvp for new players just kinda... sucks.

Horrible idea

To the OP -
What you seem to be missing is the fact that IWAY and spike builds are designed to be pugs. All anyone has to do to form one is fill in the blank spaces. If you want to get into a team that runs their own builds, you will need things (possibly 3):
1) Time to look for a group that suits you,
2) Patience in discussing builds and skills to glory before going in,
3) You might need vent/ts.
As an R7 warrior you will have no trouble finding a team, as long as you are prepared to listen to the suggestion and advice of the group you join - this might include changing 2ndary to ele or mes (from monk I'm assuming).
The reason people don't usually run with paladins in Tombs is that, in a balanced team, there are 3 monks. If you need to heal or prot yourself, then they are obviously not doing their job. It is a waste to have monk skills in your bar, skills which would be better spent else where.

i agree with the OP in that it would be nice to have an 8v8 random as an option. It really takes a while to get a game right now especially if you wanna try a non-standard build. Still, i think team strategy is where GW can really shine. It's just that sometimes you just want to play 8v8 and don't have 7 other friends/guildies around. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

On the elitism issue, it's actually interesting that people point to elitism as a reason for people leaving GW because the argument I hear most for why people leave is that you can't be elite enough in this game. Meaning that level cap or lack of new content, or items/armour/etc. to really differentiate your character drives some players away. So it seems to me that Anet can't really win on this issue and should just make the game they way they want and if they want to play something else because of those decisions, then so be it.

I think the R7 flaunt was a ruse to give him more credit than he deserves.

/notsigned

Any idea would be to instead of making the current Heroes' Ascent random add in another one, one that gives you all the same rewards as the normal one expect favor of course.

That way if people wanted an organised group they could go to Heroes' Ascent and if they wanted some fun, faction and fame the could go to the random one with out standing about for an hour shouting, "To you I'm a useless character but let me in anyway".

While I am utterly opposed to convert the existing Tombs into a random arena, an ADDITIONAL 8v8 random arena would be a cool thing, IMO. Not everyone is or wants to be in a PvP only guild. And not everyone is Rank 9 and can easily get into a group. I regulary try to get into Tombs groups and give up after like an hour of fruitlessly yelling LFG. A random 8x8 arena would at least give an option for those of us who have no chance to get into a group under the current system. GW really needs some more PvP options for casual PvP players other than 4x4 random arena.

/retort signed

Just one look at this thread.. I think it speaks for itself.

Getting rid of the Hall of Heroes and replacing it with Random Tournament is a bad idea...

Ok, adding the option for random teaming in HoH is one thing. That would probably not harm anyone (It'd be "Yay, I can play with the big guys!" or "Yay, free faction!" all around)... but making HoH a random-only place? That's insane.

If you want randomness ("diversity and excitement!! oooh!!!") and matches decided by luck, go play in Random Arenas. The idea is simple enough: tiny inconsequential PvP matches can be decided by luck, but big important ones have to be decided by tactics.

HoH is high-end. It decides favor and gives people a chance to make good money and gain fame. Therefore, it should be based on tactics and not luck.

And yes, everyone else copies everyone else's tactics... because they work. Do you have any more valid arguments?

Oh, right - it intimidates new players. Well, there's a reason the other types of PvP exist. You're free to practice as much as you like until you're good enough for the HoH (either with your own build or with one you copied from someone else... because you realized that his/her build works better than what you had). Nobody's holding a gun to your head making you play HoH. Want to? Great, then you're welcome to - but if your build/team sucks, you'll get owned. Sound fair to me. Anything else?

Oh, rank restriction? I wasn't aware of anything like that. In the GW I play, I can just team up with 7 guildies and try my luck at the HoH. No rank requirement involved. If we happen to be 7 good players, who despite being rank 0 have got enough practice and have come up with/copied good enough builds, we'll succeed and win favor and eventually become famous/rich.

Of course, if you have no guild, no good builds (and some weird morality that won't let you copy someone else's good build - oh, how dare you play "Tainted Necro #1382" when you could be original and play "Corpse #1927 at Tainted Necro #1381's feet" instead!), and you don't feel like getting any practice in random arenas to try to improve, because you wanna go straight in for the big time or something, HoH is gonna suck for you. For you.

Really, everyone is welcome to play in Random Arenas if they are that offended by the fact that IWAY or whatever the current FOTM is works.

/not signed a dozen times

It's kind of strange that people who want random arenas (at least a seperate one) tournaments are usually casual gamers or people who just want to play. The ones that refuse the idea are arrogant people who are saying I should conform and nothing more.

And I guarantee you that the people who say "I'm bad", I've probably beaten you with my builds in the past, whether it was my eng denial/enchantment stripper, interrupt ranger, or fire nuker. Don't lay that argument with me, but it just doesn't fly with me. I didn't get to rank 7 by playing noobish builds.

How do you know? I bought in some MTG hardcore players (one being a judge, which in case you don't know, is a high position in the Magic the Gathering community). They had some awesome ideas and wanted to join a group.

Problem was, they were rank 0.

I PAID for it though, so it is my right to play in it.

What about those new players without contacts or not in a guild (since you need to be rank 3 according to some people)? Left out.

All I'm asking is an 8 on 8 random tournament. There doesn't have to be a sigils or favor in the end, but you can still get fame and allows people to do what THEY want. You know, FREEDOM.

I find this ridiculous -the idea of creating a random tombs- for a simple reason:
the only interesting thing in tombs is, like a lot of you all said, building strategies in order to WIN.
People who are complaining about the difficulty to find a group, or to be accepted in a team with an uncommun build just don't realize every high-ranked player certainly have experienced these problems too.
I'm rank 6 and my beginnings in tombs were not easy at all. But if you are patient and cunning, you can progress very fast.
once rank 3 (and it's not a big deal), u shall enter fine groups and already have a few contacts in your friendlist that allows you to group quite quickly. Of course, if you always leave your team when you loose, you won't get a lot.

Then, being in a guild with same ranked people allows to progress faster, AND to test builds you wanted to.

About Iway : no comment ... I can't remember the last time i lost against it...
Go forward-they set up spirits-back up-ball around warder- monks spamming healing group with cana-warrior killing spirits-some Mesmers dealing with trappers-and that's done.

Like someone said, we often encounter same build configurations in tombs.
Why do you think it's because players have no imagination??
It's m e t a g a m e, it means these builds are simply the best options to win. They have been evoluting months after months, adapting to other dominant builds, but it doesn't mean it won't change. (especially with AS and Rit who will completely change the metagame in a few weeks).
Tombs are made for players who want a competitive challenge, organised and
balanced (which is the case atm), not a random joke without teamspeak, with leavers, and ....luck !
I'd admit Anet create this sort of tomb Apart from REAL tombs, but i would not throw any eye in this, for sure.

(excuse my terrible english, i did my best xD)

While I agree with most things you've said, this one statement I'm really fed up with. Every time I hear anyone making a point that the current Tombs systems is - lets's say - a bit harsh towards "new" players (a.k.a. unranked players), someone HAS to bring up that stupid "get into a PvP guild" argument.

Well, GW was NOT designed for PvP only players. It was NOT designed for PvP only guilds. It was designed for players who love both PvP AND PvE.

I AM IN A GUILD. It's a wonderful guild made of wonderful people who have become friends to me since way longer than GW exists. It just isn't a PvP only guild. We are like 30 people - some like PvE only, some like PvE and PvP. But we are an international guild - which means, despite our 30 members it's a rare occassion that we have 8 people online at the same time who would like to do Tombs. Yes, that means, if one of us wants to do tombing, we HAVE to rely on PUGs despite our guild is not THAT small.

I don't think we're the only guild who is like this. As a matter of fact, I KNOW that we're not the only guild who is like this. The current system does cater for the PvP only people who play 6 hours of PvP each day and have a fancy tiger emote to show off. It doesn't cater for anyone else.

Which is why a random 8x8 arena is a good idea. As I said above, I don't want to replace the current Tombs with it, but in the not-so-rare occassion an unranked player is shut off from Tombs groups again, it might be nice to be able to hit an "Enter mission" button and be able to feel like a part of the game again.

Kindly learn how to debate. I'm not the one making claims with zero evidence to back me up--I'm not the one who needs to find some kind of 'proof'.

I love it . now when you party of 8 groups with NO monk come in you will be easy prey no matter what... This is sarcasm if you didn't catch that... Random HA groups? whatever man. go back to the arenas and play with the children that have no friends in the game. If you can't manage to pull 8 friends together to organize a group, then you don't belong there. cause from the sound of it you have not played the game as a TEAM player. Prob just gone through it all with henchies... now you expect PvP to be as easy as the rest of the game... ITS NOT and NEVER WILL BE.

and as to the flavor of the month Build Iway. its not perfect... infact the Zaishen Challenge areas WHICH WILL BE REQUIRED TO GO THROUGH TO GET TO HEROES ASCENT, includes a challenge to beat NPCs using iway. Flavor of the month builds are what make this game. finding the next one, and how to defeat the current one... Now with new classes coming into the mix... its assured to allow for more new build combos...

And Finally Our guild and Alliance soon to be faction includes 12 guilds and over 200 members. about 30 officers, which consist of the GvG PvP people. all the rest are PvE, and are welcomed and helped constantly. so I am not a die hard PvP only person. In fact I'm only rank 2. with only 115 fame. so that's proof I don't play much PvP but when I do its ALWAYS rewarding to play with the PvPers amongst our existing alliance. We have extended most of the old Farming class members to the NEW Tombs area... And we LOVE it. prob one of the best things to happen to tombs IMO.

And the Heroes Ascent which most have initialed HA or hoh now has a higher calibur player arriving in it, Assuming they came through the challenge Elite path. (During the current event many just got easy access to HA immediately, this will not be the case at launch of Chapter 2) People have to Earn there way their... not just have it given to them and have 0 Clue how it works or what to do. Now at least the training requirement will assure competent players in HoH.

Nuff rant.. and flame. lets just lock this ridiculous thread and move on...


PS: Yes I edited my post, so u want to delete it go ahead. I'm done now. I doubt anyone cares what is said anymore in here anyways...

Deleting your immature flame post should do for the moment.