I think the best way to fix these skills is to give them an amount of time that they have to be in effective, so that the other team has a chance to actually shatter/drain/etc the enchantment.
Becuase even is you shatter or Drain it the enchantment still goes off.Same goes for Shadow Step, I nailed an A/W who was using with WildBlow and he went right back to the place where he had used it.
The Assassin. Dear oh dear.
Theus
Ensign
I'm going to refrain from commenting on the power of this particular skill, but I will say this:
Why are people clamoring for an increased recharge on the skill as if that actually matters? Are you actually worried about people *spamming* Recall? All of the 'broken' scenarios that have been mentioned so far have significant prep and execution times, and none of them, AFAIK, involve recasting Recall, ever. How does increasing the recharge solve your concerns in the slightest?
I would propose that this is the sort of skill that, if it is problematic (and I'm not saying it is), the problem would be fundamental and the skill will be abusive at *any* energy cost, cast time, or recharge.
Peace,
-CxE
Why are people clamoring for an increased recharge on the skill as if that actually matters? Are you actually worried about people *spamming* Recall? All of the 'broken' scenarios that have been mentioned so far have significant prep and execution times, and none of them, AFAIK, involve recasting Recall, ever. How does increasing the recharge solve your concerns in the slightest?
I would propose that this is the sort of skill that, if it is problematic (and I'm not saying it is), the problem would be fundamental and the skill will be abusive at *any* energy cost, cast time, or recharge.
Peace,
-CxE
zakaria
Most of you talked about how to deafeat ASSASSIN (SINGLE INDIVIDUAL ONE or 2 at most 
)..you didn't think of bunch of those jumpy monkeys teleporting all around the map in GvG
,don't tell me SS necro or shut down mesmer you need at least same number they use as assassins to back them off.Organised expert party of assassins will know how to deal with your mes or necro for that when factions will be realease.
I'm not whining from now about nerfing recall but i see it as challenge for us of how to defeat it with what we have
)..you didn't think of bunch of those jumpy monkeys teleporting all around the map in GvG ,don't tell me SS necro or shut down mesmer you need at least same number they use as assassins to back them off.Organised expert party of assassins will know how to deal with your mes or necro for that when factions will be realease.I'm not whining from now about nerfing recall but i see it as challenge for us of how to defeat it with what we have
Ventius Hozza
There IS a skill called recall.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/548-recall
I would have said the only way to deal with this is switch the maintain around so you may cast it on an ally and teleport to them so it may be shattered and they do NOT teleport back or just to rid GW of it.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/548-recall
I would have said the only way to deal with this is switch the maintain around so you may cast it on an ally and teleport to them so it may be shattered and they do NOT teleport back or just to rid GW of it.
FFF_WarRaven
*Teleports back to post 1 in this thread*
*bamf*
"hmm did someone say something?"
lol
was gonna post, but i think i'll just wait for another weekend event/gw2 release
Didn't get a hella lot of time in for the weekend event but it was fun.
:::End Transmission:::
*bamf*
"hmm did someone say something?"
lol
was gonna post, but i think i'll just wait for another weekend event/gw2 release
Didn't get a hella lot of time in for the weekend event but it was fun.
:::End Transmission:::
Ventius Hozza
...guuuhhhhhhh
Align
Can't you have half the team dash past them and murder the monk?
Agild Greenfinger
I don't know wether or nor this skill or shadow step skills in general is overpowered...but I can certainly see them as being annoying...
I think the main problem is lack of a proper counter...short of interupting the skill while used(which I'm guessing quite often happens outside the reach of the enemy) or removing the enchant, which unfortunately simply triggers the skill before it was intended to.(isn't there something about that you need to use the enchant removal on the the person recall was used on, not the person using it?)
as for the lore of the skill, shadow stepping could be seen as:
1) the character actually teleports by the use of magic
or
2) the character gain superhuman speed, he still moves in "conventional"(e.g. one foot infront of the other) ways, but the speed at wich he does it makes it seem as if he is "teleporting" around...the effect is basically the same, but in this way you can justify my suggested counter lore-wise... and the counter is "you cannot shadow step if crippled"...add that to the end of every shadow step skill, then what would happen?
this would make rangers traps highly valuable for trapping those pesky little assassins aswell as warriors cripple effect(and cripple effect in general). what do you think?
naturally Assassins should also have a skill or skills to counter this such as: you cannot be crippled for x secs, removes the effects of crippled etc.
I think the main problem is lack of a proper counter...short of interupting the skill while used(which I'm guessing quite often happens outside the reach of the enemy) or removing the enchant, which unfortunately simply triggers the skill before it was intended to.(isn't there something about that you need to use the enchant removal on the the person recall was used on, not the person using it?)
as for the lore of the skill, shadow stepping could be seen as:
1) the character actually teleports by the use of magic
or
2) the character gain superhuman speed, he still moves in "conventional"(e.g. one foot infront of the other) ways, but the speed at wich he does it makes it seem as if he is "teleporting" around...the effect is basically the same, but in this way you can justify my suggested counter lore-wise... and the counter is "you cannot shadow step if crippled"...add that to the end of every shadow step skill, then what would happen?
this would make rangers traps highly valuable for trapping those pesky little assassins aswell as warriors cripple effect(and cripple effect in general). what do you think?
naturally Assassins should also have a skill or skills to counter this such as: you cannot be crippled for x secs, removes the effects of crippled etc.
rii
Its already been said and Ill say it again, there are new skills being introduced to all the core classes, and they will have counters to these things. Its not just recall... ritualists have a variety of new concept effects which dont have obvious counters. Their abuse is just slightly more hidden than recall. The counters will be there.
SisterMercy
Quote:
| I think people here are missing the point. You can name counters all day long that does not change the fact that its overpowered and will warp the game. |
The fact is, the counters are what we should be looking at. Perhaps some tweaking will be necessary, but innovation will be more crucial to game balance. The existing professions are also going to be getting 20-25 new skills... your specially-designed counter or interrupt may already have been thought of.
Be patient. And have fun with it.
Keep in mind that if the assassin keeps Recall-ing himself to the hiding monk, it's just begging to draw the team onto their hiding monk. Or stripping Recall may be a way of teleporting him out of the battlefield before he's ready.
We've only had it in the game for two days.
Ipse_Dixit
I deffinately don't think that either of the new classes is really overpowered, they're just totally different. Assassins are not tanks, they can't take damage very well, teleporting back to the monk is probably exactly what recall was made for. Defeating powerful enchantments is exactly what shatter enchantment was made for. If they wait until they're down below (well, my dom mes does 94 with SE so i'll stick with that for ease of conversation) 94 hp, then they'll be DOA when they reach the monk. I know this because I was playing an assassin with Aura of Displacement and when it was shattered I still took the the damage. It is simply not that overpowered, it's just new.
Myodato
I'd just like to point out that the most effective counter to the Assassin's mobility is due to hit the game at exactly the same time the Assassins do - the Ritualist.
The Ritualist gives a level of zone control that Trappers, Warders and Spirit Spammers could previously only dream of. If you have watched any of the GWWC play-offs, you will realise how important positioning is to high-end gameplay. Within the same expansion we are getting a class that adds a huge degree of positional tactical options, and a class with the manouverability to abuse any weakness in defensive positioning (no longer can you leave your order necro hiding alone). Sure there may be some fine tuning to do, why let us have a go early otherwise, but the general principles are sound, and a fabulous prospect for the future of GW PvP.
The Ritualist gives a level of zone control that Trappers, Warders and Spirit Spammers could previously only dream of. If you have watched any of the GWWC play-offs, you will realise how important positioning is to high-end gameplay. Within the same expansion we are getting a class that adds a huge degree of positional tactical options, and a class with the manouverability to abuse any weakness in defensive positioning (no longer can you leave your order necro hiding alone). Sure there may be some fine tuning to do, why let us have a go early otherwise, but the general principles are sound, and a fabulous prospect for the future of GW PvP.
jaibas17
Hmm im not too experienced on assasing, but why not make recall to target a friend, but it can be sttripped from you, and when it does, you stay at current position, not returning to your friend's side?
I think this might be good, bring 1 enchant stripper/rend enchantment = GG assasin
I think this might be good, bring 1 enchant stripper/rend enchantment = GG assasin
Guardian of the Light
I know lets reindroduce Light of all seeing. That was a skill I indroduced to balanced invisibility but lets use it for shadow stepping.
Light of All Seeing
Divine Favor
For X Seconds anyone in the radar Sceen can not Shadow Step.
Shadow stepping in general is all teleportation skills.
Light of All Seeing
Divine Favor
For X Seconds anyone in the radar Sceen can not Shadow Step.
Shadow stepping in general is all teleportation skills.
Ventius Hozza
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light
I know lets reindroduce Light of all seeing. That was a skill I indroduced to balanced invisibility but lets use it for shadow stepping.
Light of All Seeing Divine Favor For X Seconds anyone in the radar Sceen can not Shadow Step. Shadow stepping in general is all teleportation skills. |
Knido
A-Net should make Recall like every other maintained enchant: if the person your maintaining it on goes off your radar, the enchantment is canceled
easy as that problem solved
easy as that problem solved
Bahumhat
Sorry if this is mentioned before, but I have no time to read 3 pages.
You guys are saying that the A. Recall skill is overpowered and whatnot, but dont forget, the old professions are getting new skills too, and in those new skills might be a way to stop telelporting.
You guys are saying that the A. Recall skill is overpowered and whatnot, but dont forget, the old professions are getting new skills too, and in those new skills might be a way to stop telelporting.
Rikimaru
There isnt any reason to nerf shadow stepping, it's completely fine as it is, the only thing that MIGHT have a problem teleportation wise is Return. Personally I don't care if they remove Return from the game completely, i'd probably never use it anyway. But there is no reason to mess with shadow stepping in general.
Mysterial
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ventius Hozza
I think this is going a bit too far. However, i like the cripple idea and the idea that you do not teleport, but you simply move very fast. This enables bodyblocking and gives a fair way for the other team to counteract your teleportation.
|
Valhallan
Sorry guys but this is a little ridiculous.
Instead of being mad about being beaten by something you are not used to, figure a strategy that can beat it instead of whining about it. Just because no one has figured it out for you yet (like people did Iway, and ranger spike for example) doesn't mean that there isn't an adequate way to beat it.
The way you guys sound we might as well just get rid of assassin altogether
. Classes have their originalities and their strengths, along with their weaknesses.
Instead of being mad about being beaten by something you are not used to, figure a strategy that can beat it instead of whining about it. Just because no one has figured it out for you yet (like people did Iway, and ranger spike for example) doesn't mean that there isn't an adequate way to beat it.
The way you guys sound we might as well just get rid of assassin altogether
. Classes have their originalities and their strengths, along with their weaknesses.
Deathqueen
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild
i have been having a good laugh when people use the assassin speed buff that makes them go back to where they first used the skill, they try to run away and my teammates and I sit down and wait for the assassin to show back up in the worse ambush that assassin has ever seen
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Chicken Rice Seller
Assassin is not like overpower or wat of you guys like to say godly ...theres always a way to counter ..dust trap ftw
Avenger The Cursed
Hmmm, how about this?
Now shadowstepping to a foe is not bad, I think the concensus is that it has great tactical usage. Probably same with shadowstep to a random location. I think the problem here is the teleportation to an ally using enchantments.
Here is my solution:
How about we make a "casting time" required to teleport to yourally? For example, you can't double click the enchantment icon to make it expire instantly, instead, you must in a way "cast it".
What this means:
This can be interrupted, or classes with counters to shadowstepping can use their skills on them, or they can get damaged in this time. Therefore, things like spikes can't be countered using this "shadow-stepping".
Here's how I see it:
Group leader: Alright guys, everyone come back to monk.
Team begins the casting.
2 players shadow steps get interrupted.
Whole team is near monk, while the others have been isolated and are getting massive damage.
Sorry for the long post, but do you guys think this might fix the problem with recall and return?
Now shadowstepping to a foe is not bad, I think the concensus is that it has great tactical usage. Probably same with shadowstep to a random location. I think the problem here is the teleportation to an ally using enchantments.
Here is my solution:
How about we make a "casting time" required to teleport to yourally? For example, you can't double click the enchantment icon to make it expire instantly, instead, you must in a way "cast it".
What this means:
This can be interrupted, or classes with counters to shadowstepping can use their skills on them, or they can get damaged in this time. Therefore, things like spikes can't be countered using this "shadow-stepping".
Here's how I see it:
Group leader: Alright guys, everyone come back to monk.
Team begins the casting.
2 players shadow steps get interrupted.
Whole team is near monk, while the others have been isolated and are getting massive damage.
Sorry for the long post, but do you guys think this might fix the problem with recall and return?
John Bloodstone
No changes to any of these so called 'overpowered' skills until the full game has been in circulation for at LEAST a month. Honestly, how can you call for a nerf after playing the new classes for 2 1/2 days?
Some people really have such a knee-jerk reaction to some skills, make sure you never have your reflexes tested guys else you'll end up kicking your own head in.
Some people really have such a knee-jerk reaction to some skills, make sure you never have your reflexes tested guys else you'll end up kicking your own head in.
toastgodsupreme
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mysterial
Only thing I think might be beneficial to change is to make the teleport skills not do the teleporting if they end due to enemy removal. Then running a tactic like that has risk because if they remove it, you're stuck in no man's land.
|
I can see this being a bigger problem if two ele's begin a casting of meteor shower or another big aoe and the sin warps home to his team/monk. Now the team/monk is caught in some nasty AoE damage thanks to the sin(s). Casting does NOT stop for the eles or fail because the sin warps home (see below).
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by antialias02
I have yet to see someone who can use the assassin to the best of their ability. In one instance, I began casting Meteor Shower on an Assassin - who, subsequently, jumped back into where he started from...
....right in the middle of the rest of his team. Go-go LOTS OF DAMAGE. I think that the Assassin, just like any other class, is powerful when played well. And not at all when it's played like the suck. |
So yeah, this skill isn't overpowered, it's a new way to play, and once ANet includes the enchant removal fix (if they do), it'll be like anything else, just another interesting strategy. Which is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing GOOOOD. More strategy is fun. Hell, thanks to the new classes, I think I'm hooked on pvp now.
Deathqueen
While we're at it let's nerf Necro SS and Ranger Interupts these are overpowering as well. In fact anything that causes me harm or takes away my ability to kill anyone an everyone with ease and/or win every battle is overpowering and I would like to have it nerfed Anet...thank you. (smile)
Loralai
I am not going to make a judgment on either profession, as I really don't fell I had enough time to get the complete feel for them. However, I was very disappointed that this weekend coincided so closely with the unfreezing of the gvg ladder. Our team was doing a wonderful job moving up in rank when BAM we were hit with a full team of essentially just monks and assassins, and I think one ritualists.
I think it would have been better suited to find a way to eliminate their usage from typical GvG while in Beta, or hold off on the ladder a bit longer. Sure we could have done the same thing....but we were a bit put off by battling with characters we felt inexperienced in. Likewise, as many have said, we had no viable timeframe to adequately include skills in our build to counter the new ones.
That being said, running both necro and mesmer builds against them, I found it easy to maintain them from a distance, (especially with mesmer), but if they got to me, which happened quite often, and I was unable to interrupt or drain I was put down in a matter of seconds.
I think it would have been better suited to find a way to eliminate their usage from typical GvG while in Beta, or hold off on the ladder a bit longer. Sure we could have done the same thing....but we were a bit put off by battling with characters we felt inexperienced in. Likewise, as many have said, we had no viable timeframe to adequately include skills in our build to counter the new ones.
That being said, running both necro and mesmer builds against them, I found it easy to maintain them from a distance, (especially with mesmer), but if they got to me, which happened quite often, and I was unable to interrupt or drain I was put down in a matter of seconds.
Deathqueen
Mesmers are always put down in a matter of seconds. (smile)
MarkyX
Quote:
| A perfect fix for this. Shatter enchants and bam, they're stuck. They just need the skill not to trigger on enchant removal by an enemy. |
It's a good class, but essentially it's another form of a warrior, and can easily be countered. I disagree about 'shadow step should not work if enchant removal' because it would make the assassins not take shadow steps. They don't have an abudence of energy like casters do, so they can't spare a lost spell. If the assassin ports back to the player, who cares. This is how you shut down an assassin's portation ability: By pushing him back.
It just sounds like a lot of players here just don't wish for a new challenge or new tactics, and really want to stick to plain vanilla PvP. The factions weekend, the PvP fights were much more unpredictable, tactical, and it required other things to worry about then "TEH MONK" The assassin's quick kills and mobility will be a threat (and can be attacked due to low armor) while the Ritualist's spirits will start playing a new role in terms of target calling. I can see "spirit killer" builds being used on the battlefield for mainly getting rid of any spirit with the uses of the spirit walk.
Plus there is supposed to be more skills for the core classes, and we haven't seen them yet. I just hope they don't change the assassin at all, especially temple strike. If you are letting the Assassin even TOUCH you, it's your own fault.
Mysterial
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MarkyX
It's a good class, but essentially it's another form of a warrior, and can easily be countered. I disagree about 'shadow step should not work if enchant removal' because it would make the assassins not take shadow steps. They don't have an abudence of energy like casters do, so they can't spare a lost spell. If the assassin ports back to the player, who cares. This is how you shut down an assassin's portation ability: By pushing him back.
|
Quote:
| It just sounds like a lot of players here just don't wish for a new challenge or new tactics, and really want to stick to plain vanilla PvP. The factions weekend, the PvP fights were much more unpredictable, tactical, and it required other things to worry about then "TEH MONK" The assassin's quick kills and mobility will be a threat (and can be attacked due to low armor) while the Ritualist's spirits will start playing a new role in terms of target calling. I can see "spirit killer" builds being used on the battlefield for mainly getting rid of any spirit with the uses of the spirit walk. |
funbun
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Littzain
Yeah, I agree mostly.
I feel as though the teleport skills are going to be abused like crazy once everyone realizes their potential. |
Here's what you guys are missing: each of the "core professions" will have get 25 NEW skills for Factions. Perhaps these skillz are designed to counter the new professions.
Ventius Hozza
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by funbun
Here's what you guys are missing: each of the "core professions" will have get 25 NEW skills for Factions. Perhaps these skillz are designed to counter the new professions.
|
funbun
Yeah, I see your point. At any rate, we still have at least 3 months, at least 1 or 2 more event weekends, plus 150 skills that we know nothing about. There's too much left in the open to get all bent out of shape. And given that Anet is the King of Nerfs, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Xia
wtf.. it gvies -1 energy and takes a spot on the bar, you guys know that right? It's fine
twicky_kid
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Xia
wtf.. it gvies -1 energy and takes a spot on the bar, you guys know that right? It's fine
|
John Bloodstone
You are free to abuse the skill - until a counter is found to it. With the increased number of skills available and some as-yet unknown ones, a counter is very probable. Calling for nerfs before even knowing the full skill list available is nothing short of foolish.
LightningHell
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MarkyX
No, I disagree, and that isn't because I like playing assassin.
It's a good class, but essentially it's another form of a warrior, and can easily be countered. I disagree about 'shadow step should not work if enchant removal' because it would make the assassins not take shadow steps. They don't have an abudence of energy like casters do, so they can't spare a lost spell. If the assassin ports back to the player, who cares. This is how you shut down an assassin's portation ability: By pushing him back. It just sounds like a lot of players here just don't wish for a new challenge or new tactics, and really want to stick to plain vanilla PvP. The factions weekend, the PvP fights were much more unpredictable, tactical, and it required other things to worry about then "TEH MONK" The assassin's quick kills and mobility will be a threat (and can be attacked due to low armor) while the Ritualist's spirits will start playing a new role in terms of target calling. I can see "spirit killer" builds being used on the battlefield for mainly getting rid of any spirit with the uses of the spirit walk. Plus there is supposed to be more skills for the core classes, and we haven't seen them yet. I just hope they don't change the assassin at all, especially temple strike. If you are letting the Assassin even TOUCH you, it's your own fault. |
The Assassin is not "essentially another form of warrior". Don't you go insulting me
And the Assassin has a 30 Energy pool, I believe, and 4 pips of energy regen, like casters.
They can't tank like Warriors. However, I think they should still be left as last/second-last target.
MarkyX
Quote:
| Maybe, or maybe they think that some of the new tactics are simply not fun. Especially the Ritualist spirit spam. What about the Ranger spirit spam era was so incredibly fun that they though it would be a great idea to introduce it as a standard game mechanic? I'd sure like to know, because personally I'd much rather be attacking real people who are in turn trying to attack me rather than hacking at stationary spirits that the enemy is spamming as fast as they can cast them. |
That being said, the ritaulists' role is to control the pace and battlefield, as well as provide some mild protection for his members. Spirits are NOT that tough to take down (highest level is 10..SCARY) and I believe there is Spirit Walk and a ritualist spell that instantly destroys a spirit and heals those party members in the area.
If you can't handle the what factions is going to bring, in terms of change of tactics and how PvP will work, then maybe you should quit when the expansions come out. Otherwise, get used to it.
I for one like the new content with open arms. I really enjoy the assassin, he is like the new warrior except without being complete crap and the ritualist can really turn hte tides of battle.
Now only if the land take over would be good. Because Heroes' Ascent, thanks ot IWAY and other FOTM, is stopping me from enjoying the game. If they can make the PvE area very accessible with no "rank check" or IWAY bullshit, I would pre-order the expansions right now.
M C H A M M E R
This may have been said, but even if it is shattered, they still recall back. That skill=UBER N3WB
Karmakin
Recall/Shadow Step isn't going to ruin GvG...
The Assassin class is going to help what makes it so great. Same with the Ritualist. Both are STRATEGIC classes. The Assassin is a hit and run class that I believe can do a lot of damage on anybody 1v1. It's the perfect flag runner/pick off character. The Ritualist can make a pathway absurdly difficult to attack, and give a strong defensive boost.
The Assassin class is going to help what makes it so great. Same with the Ritualist. Both are STRATEGIC classes. The Assassin is a hit and run class that I believe can do a lot of damage on anybody 1v1. It's the perfect flag runner/pick off character. The Ritualist can make a pathway absurdly difficult to attack, and give a strong defensive boost.