Howdy,
As the title points out, I'm wondering why the sundering mod is so prized. All I'm seeing is a ten-percent chance to get ten-percent armor penetration.
So what? :O
Why is Sundering so prized?
Studio Ghibli
crazy diamond
It's like increasing penis length by a quarter inch.
Nobody will notice but you.
Nobody will notice but you.
FrogDevourer
^
He said it all (I'm still recovering from the laugh)
+1%dmg for a perfect upgrade, how thrilling!
He said it all (I'm still recovering from the laugh)
+1%dmg for a perfect upgrade, how thrilling!
SilentAssassin
well I like it, thats why... and alot other ppl like it to
sleazeh
Almost without exception, knowledgable players don't "prize" sundering mods at all, quite the opposite. Simple math tells the story.
And lol at crazy diamond.
And lol at crazy diamond.
Xonic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by crazy diamond
It's like increasing penis length by a quarter inch.
Nobody will notice but you. |
Bastard Son
Crazy Diamond is dead on correct. 
Sleazeh: that avatar is awesome. I'm laughing my ass off over here.
Sleazeh: that avatar is awesome. I'm laughing my ass off over here.
Barinthus
Generally vampiric string probably causes more damage but some people cannot be bothered with switching bows all the time due to health degen.
Personally I do use a sundering hornbow even although I know it's not the best deal - it's just a personal quirk.
Personally I do use a sundering hornbow even although I know it's not the best deal - it's just a personal quirk.
Rilder
I find elemental mods to be of more use here, especialy whenyou got the right conjure
SilentAssassin
well I just love the idea having 10/10 sundering with:
weaken armour: -20% armour
penetrating attack: +17 dmg -20%armour
and then hoping you hit the string
weaken armour: -20% armour
penetrating attack: +17 dmg -20%armour
and then hoping you hit the string
Taeka
The answer is how often do you pick up a weapon and able to salvage 10/10 sundering mod out of it? You are paying the rarity here.
fallot
When the string procs, the damage dealt by the bow increases considerably. 10% AP is a lot. The only problem is the 10% chance that goes with it. It adds so little to your DPS that it might as well not be there.
BBoy_Manchild
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SilentAssassin
well I just love the idea having 10/10 sundering with:
weaken armour: -20% armour penetrating attack: +17 dmg -20%armour and then hoping you hit the string |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fallout
When the string procs, the damage dealt by the bow increases considerably. 10% AP is a lot. The only problem is the 10% chance that goes with it. It adds so little to your DPS that it might as well not be there.
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MSecorsky
You know, my ranger found an Ivory bow, 10/10 sundering, 13>50, +29 health. He's positively giddy. To change that to a vamp means destroying the string, not something I'm likely to do.
I also salvaged a +30 fortitude grip... to put that on the bow destroys the +29... senseless.
So, to answer the question from one perspective, it's better than getting rid of the sundering.
As for buying the string... the appeal of damage ignoring armor and getting in is strong, especially without the constant detriment of health degeneration which, albeit negligible, is visually annoying.
I also salvaged a +30 fortitude grip... to put that on the bow destroys the +29... senseless.
So, to answer the question from one perspective, it's better than getting rid of the sundering.
As for buying the string... the appeal of damage ignoring armor and getting in is strong, especially without the constant detriment of health degeneration which, albeit negligible, is visually annoying.
Captain Arne Is PRO
also paying the the perfection. a perfect sundering axe haft = between 30k and 50k, a 10/9 is 8k-15k
Ruvaen
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Originally Posted by Xonic
but if that quarter inch is a significant increase from the original size then I am sure the girlfriend will notice
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MSecorsky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xonic
but if that quarter inch is a significant increase from the original size then I am sure the girlfriend will notice
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Plus we now know why she comes home late smiling.
XtrmEend
I notice atleast +15 damage when the 10% kicks in.
Ruvaen
In the mind's eye of those who like the mod, it's their solution to maximizing the damage output from their weapon. I prefer vamp or even furious upgrades over sundering but that's just me.
Ensign
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fallot
When the string procs, the damage dealt by the bow increases considerably. 10% AP is a lot.
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Sundering is k-rad I liek it a lot!!!
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Originally Posted by Studio Ghibli
Why is Sundering so prized?
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1) PvE players do not understand weapon swapping, or they do not believe in doing it. They want their one Ub3R weapon that they keep out *ALL* the time.
2) PvE players do not like things with drawbacks. When the math is poorly understood (ala, it doesn't make numbers on their character screen go up) they use things without drawbacks.
3) PvE players would much rather run around with terrible equipment that 'looks cool' than use something that's actually good.
4) 10/10 sundering is the rarest prefix for bows, and ties for rarest on melee weapons. If there's one thing we've learned from MMOs, it's that rarity = cool.
5) Everyone else likes sundering, and they're paying huge money for it, so if you want to be cool like the masses you need it too.
Peace,
-CxE
lord_shar
I'll take a furious sword hilt or axe haft over sundering ANY day...
Ruvaen
It's nice to trigger the furious mod when you're running high adrenaline cost skills.
Savio
Vamp > other mods > no mod > Sundering.
I want pics of your normal attacks versus Sundering attacks.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XtrmEend
I notice atleast +15 damage when the 10% kicks in.
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Osi Ri S
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XtrmEend
I notice atleast +15 damage when the 10% kicks in.
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so i think youre only guessing it kicking in when you do +15 more dmg?
MSecorsky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ruvaen
It's nice to trigger the furious mod when you're running high adrenaline cost skills.
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azunder
I think it's because when they crit, they *think* the sundering kicked in. They then keep it with them forever without noticing that they're just getting crits and the sundering mod's not doing anything.
Malchior Devenholm
noone knows azunder-as for personal experience from me...
Bow-Vamp String
Hammer and Axe-Furious-high adrenal needed
Sword-Vamp-low adren needed
I kinda like to have a sundering on one of my longbows though, just for the draw and i might pick up the extra dmg
Bow-Vamp String
Hammer and Axe-Furious-high adrenal needed
Sword-Vamp-low adren needed
I kinda like to have a sundering on one of my longbows though, just for the draw and i might pick up the extra dmg
Deathqueen
The Vampiric is the best mod overall. Since all things rely on HITTING, even with the sundering when it does proc has to HIT at that moment. And you've all seen yourself swinging at air many times from blind to stances. The vampiric is a guarantee that everytime you hit you're claiming 3 extra health points from that individual and no percentages required. But, when you're using vampiric you have to work more switching back n forth (if you're a good player) for those times when swinging at air is just losing you 1pt of health for that period of time. Good idea to always carry Wild Blow at least you can smash those stanced characters IF it HITS!
Besides if you're using an axe, (which you should be if you're a good player) then penetrating blow is going to give you 20% armor penetratoin and if you want constant 20% penetration just use a W/Mo (not the best class nowadays) but, Judges Insight will give you that 20% armor penetration for quite some time if you smite yourself up.
Frenzy + Vampiric ftw. laffin
I also found the best way to test mods is to goto the 100 armor dummy in the training grounds and time how long it takes to destroy it with each mod. And not use any skills other than the weapon and the mod. Here you will find the vampiric is definitely better than the sundering. To test furious you have to use your adrinilin skills, furious is about like sundering though 10% "chance" just isn't good enough when guaranteed is much better as with vampiric.
Now if you hit "all the time" furious would be beneficial because it would bring your Eviserate up more often, but, that's always the key and point, you don't always hit all the time. Thus you have to rely on "chance" all too often.
Of course I expect arguements, but, I've seen what I've seen what I've seen (Abbott & Costello) and Vampiric just wins out overall. (smile)
Besides if you're using an axe, (which you should be if you're a good player) then penetrating blow is going to give you 20% armor penetratoin and if you want constant 20% penetration just use a W/Mo (not the best class nowadays) but, Judges Insight will give you that 20% armor penetration for quite some time if you smite yourself up.
Frenzy + Vampiric ftw. laffin
I also found the best way to test mods is to goto the 100 armor dummy in the training grounds and time how long it takes to destroy it with each mod. And not use any skills other than the weapon and the mod. Here you will find the vampiric is definitely better than the sundering. To test furious you have to use your adrinilin skills, furious is about like sundering though 10% "chance" just isn't good enough when guaranteed is much better as with vampiric.
Now if you hit "all the time" furious would be beneficial because it would bring your Eviserate up more often, but, that's always the key and point, you don't always hit all the time. Thus you have to rely on "chance" all too often.
Of course I expect arguements, but, I've seen what I've seen what I've seen (Abbott & Costello) and Vampiric just wins out overall. (smile)
eom
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Originally Posted by Savio
Vamp > other mods > no mod > Sundering.
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ahahaha...!!
I think it's highly prized for the same reason so many people have to sell every commodity for 10 ea.
jimmy_logic
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Originally Posted by Ensign
It's enormous. At 16 Marksmanship and with a perfect bow, sundering will add, on average, 4.3 damage every time it procs! AWESOME! It's even better if you crit, then it adds 6.1 damage to your critical hit! ZOMG! Those huge procs totally make up for it only triggering 10% of the time.
Sundering is k-rad I liek it a lot!!! Five reasons: 1) PvE players do not understand weapon swapping, or they do not believe in doing it. They want their one Ub3R weapon that they keep out *ALL* the time. 2) PvE players do not like things with drawbacks. When the math is poorly understood (ala, it doesn't make numbers on their character screen go up) they use things without drawbacks. 3) PvE players would much rather run around with terrible equipment that 'looks cool' than use something that's actually good. 4) 10/10 sundering is the rarest prefix for bows, and ties for rarest on melee weapons. If there's one thing we've learned from MMOs, it's that rarity = cool. 5) Everyone else likes sundering, and they're paying huge money for it, so if you want to be cool like the masses you need it too. Peace, -CxE |
My opinion on bow string upgrades are as follows:
1). Zealous
2). Vampiric
3). Elementals (I would take the bow with the most rare elemental damage so i.e. the one that most people dont bring armor for)
4). Sundering (Purely because its better than number 5.)
5). Condition lengthening ones (A good monk gets rid of conditions real fast)
Regards
Ensign
Assuming you're using Apply Poison the Poisoner's String outperforms Sundering by a landslide. Outperforms the elemental strings too.
Peace,
-CxE
Peace,
-CxE
Evan The Cursed
I heard somewhere that Sundering does not compound with skills that give AP (even when it activates), is that true?
Soul Shaker
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deathqueen
The Vampiric is the best mod overall. Since all things rely on HITTING, even with the sundering when it does proc has to HIT at that moment. And you've all seen yourself swinging at air many times from blind to stances. The vampiric is a guarantee that everytime you hit you're claiming 3 extra health points from that individual and no percentages required. But, when you're using vampiric you have to work more switching back n forth (if you're a good player) for those times when swinging at air is just losing you 1pt of health for that period of time. Good idea to always carry Wild Blow at least you can smash those stanced characters IF it HITS!
Besides if you're using an axe, (which you should be if you're a good player) then penetrating blow is going to give you 20% armor penetratoin and if you want constant 20% penetration just use a W/Mo (not the best class nowadays) but, Judges Insight will give you that 20% armor penetration for quite some time if you smite yourself up. Frenzy + Vampiric ftw. laffin I also found the best way to test mods is to goto the 100 armor dummy in the training grounds and time how long it takes to destroy it with each mod. And not use any skills other than the weapon and the mod. Here you will find the vampiric is definitely better than the sundering. To test furious you have to use your adrinilin skills, furious is about like sundering though 10% "chance" just isn't good enough when guaranteed is much better as with vampiric. Now if you hit "all the time" furious would be beneficial because it would bring your Eviserate up more often, but, that's always the key and point, you don't always hit all the time. Thus you have to rely on "chance" all too often. Of course I expect arguements, but, I've seen what I've seen what I've seen (Abbott & Costello) and Vampiric just wins out overall. (smile) |
BBoy_Manchild
its sad that elemental mods are more effective then sundering, even if you are not using conjures or hexes that are triggered by elemental damages
i just dont like it when warriors and rangers use the elemental weapon ALL THE TIME, do they enjoy doing less damage to rangers and wasting a preffix while attacking softies?
put that fiery newb stick away wammo, you shouldnt even be attacking other wars in the first place
i just dont like it when warriors and rangers use the elemental weapon ALL THE TIME, do they enjoy doing less damage to rangers and wasting a preffix while attacking softies?
put that fiery newb stick away wammo, you shouldnt even be attacking other wars in the first place
Studio Ghibli
.. with an elemental bow string, I assume I do extra damage against warriors 'cause their armor normally protects against physical?
Incidentally, is there a chart out there somewhere that calculates damage versus armor class with armor penetration in mind?
Incidentally, is there a chart out there somewhere that calculates damage versus armor class with armor penetration in mind?
Cjlr
If you actually work it out, sundering is a piece of crap. Well, not completely, but it might as well be compared to the extra damage a good vampiric mod will give you. I'll use 28 baseline damage, to represent an ideal hit with no extra modifiers. By the way, some of the math might be a little off, I didn't double-check it.
Casters normally have 60 armour, which as you (should) know means they take 100% damage from attacks. If the sundering kicks in, the target will in effect have 54 damage (60 x 0.9, or 90%), equivelant to roughly 111% damage (I think - correct me if I'm wrong here, someone), and hence take 31.07 damage. 3.07 damage beats the vampiric mod on an ideal hit - but only when it kicks in once every 10 shots. Vampiric = 30 extra damage/10 shots, Sundering = 3 extra damage/10 shots. Also, there's bonelace, judge's, noble, rogue's, etc, but I'm too lazy to go into those.
Warriors have a baseline of 100 armour against physical attacks, including arrows. That 100 is reduced to 90 by the sundering, and therefore the damage increases from 14 (the baseline off a max non-critical hit) to 16.65. That's 2.65 extra damage once every ten shots; even less than against casters. A theoretical (and impossible) elemental sundering bow would be better (it would hit for 2.94 extra damage), but too bad, you can't have one.
It's been my experience that rangers don't shoot other rangers very often (spike versus spike notwithstanding), but nonetheless: Against an AL of 70, the sundering will reduce it to 63 once every 10 hits and strike for an additional 3.03.
So, under ideal conditions, sundering will match vampiric for damage only one in every ten shots. Why is Sundering so prized? A good question indeed...
Casters normally have 60 armour, which as you (should) know means they take 100% damage from attacks. If the sundering kicks in, the target will in effect have 54 damage (60 x 0.9, or 90%), equivelant to roughly 111% damage (I think - correct me if I'm wrong here, someone), and hence take 31.07 damage. 3.07 damage beats the vampiric mod on an ideal hit - but only when it kicks in once every 10 shots. Vampiric = 30 extra damage/10 shots, Sundering = 3 extra damage/10 shots. Also, there's bonelace, judge's, noble, rogue's, etc, but I'm too lazy to go into those.
Warriors have a baseline of 100 armour against physical attacks, including arrows. That 100 is reduced to 90 by the sundering, and therefore the damage increases from 14 (the baseline off a max non-critical hit) to 16.65. That's 2.65 extra damage once every ten shots; even less than against casters. A theoretical (and impossible) elemental sundering bow would be better (it would hit for 2.94 extra damage), but too bad, you can't have one.
It's been my experience that rangers don't shoot other rangers very often (spike versus spike notwithstanding), but nonetheless: Against an AL of 70, the sundering will reduce it to 63 once every 10 hits and strike for an additional 3.03.
So, under ideal conditions, sundering will match vampiric for damage only one in every ten shots. Why is Sundering so prized? A good question indeed...
Moonshine
to awnser the opening posters question, "why is sundering so prized?"
it does extra damage and has no drawbacks. yes, other mods may do more damage or have a more noticable effect, but there is no worying about health degen, someone having extra elemental resistance u didnt know about, energy problems or switching between 4 identical looking collector bows when u cant hit to regen health/energy. however, dont pay for it the prices are rediculous. i use a 10/8 sundering mod on my bow, but i'm more interrupt than damage. but when i comes down to it, its extra damage for free, no strings attached thats what makes it good.
it does extra damage and has no drawbacks. yes, other mods may do more damage or have a more noticable effect, but there is no worying about health degen, someone having extra elemental resistance u didnt know about, energy problems or switching between 4 identical looking collector bows when u cant hit to regen health/energy. however, dont pay for it the prices are rediculous. i use a 10/8 sundering mod on my bow, but i'm more interrupt than damage. but when i comes down to it, its extra damage for free, no strings attached thats what makes it good.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Moonshine
but when i comes down to it, its extra damage for free, no strings attached thats what makes it good.
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Sorry, I had to
I suppose it isn't too bad for someone who doesn't want to worry about degen and doesn't use conditions. Zealous is nicer for barrage, but if you're just using interrupts there isn't much else to use that really helps (assuming you don't want to worry about vamp).
Doesn't make it good, still.
Rilder
My non max damage no damage mod Shocking Eternal Bow of Fortitude out preforms my 15^50 max sunderign short bow of enchanting any day.
Desbreko
I use a 10/10 sundering short bow on my ranger . . . while I'm trapping. When I'm actually shooting things, I'm either regaining energy with my zealous short bow or plugging away from long range with my fiery storm bow. Soon as I get a good composite/recurve/eternal bow, I'm ditching the sundering bow for it and will probably be looking for a 5/-1 vamp string to put on it.