Why is Sundering so prized?

People use sundering because GW, like most online games, has a large population of morons.

Becuase you're playing Guild Wars while shese fast asleep inside your dreams? o.o Lawl! Gamers don't have Girlfriends. That's like saying girls play video games! ROFL!


Alot of people arecomparing Sundering to Vampiric. What about Sundering vs Mastery?

Sundering is crap - one of the many reasons I am baffled by Drago's Bow being 2-3X the cost of Drago's Vampiric Bow, which is by far the better option. People are dumb though, and will pay insane money for crap because they don't bother to understand the game.

As to sundering vs. Mastery, the dminishing returns of mastery hurt performance a bit, but you can get a +2 bonus to damage from skills (for melee, probably +1 from missile), 20% of the time, and if you already have a 12+ in the weapon it adds 3.5% roughly to your base damage, 20% of the time. For example, on a bowshot, this could work out to a point of damage, 20% of the time, or .2 damage on average, the bonus skill damage could thus be as much as .2 as well, if you only use skills; if you use about 50% skills it would only be .1 bonus. Still, 0.3 damage bonus on average is about what the Sundering gives, so you are on pretty much the same footing! On a melee weapon you may do a bit better, as many skills are +2 damage per level.

If you are at 11 in the weapon attribute or less the mastery grip beats the sundering hands down, as it gives ~9% on base damage per level, so at level 11 in the attribute 2.45 damage per triggered bowshot (example), Sundering which acts only half as often would need to add 4.9 or so to beat it, which it doesn't.

Theres your answer.

Basically people are complete morons and are paying for rarity.

depends i prefer zealous for my axe because i only use about 1 adreniline skill and the rest have energy requirements

people do like there pedicure, even if they wear sneakers =).

I sure hope you're not trying to do damage.

o yes i am trying to, have fun with the skill bar.





(skill bar and everything left on purpose)

well, now i'm moderately comforted that the 14^50 fellblade i found the other day was furious not sundering.. and equally glad i put dragos flat at the end of my priorities list

The poisonner's bowstring works way better in PvE

In PvP you used the 10/10 on your "off bow" simply cause you need a bow without the Vamp.

Agreed.

A lot of PvE opponents, especially in late-game, seem to have higher Physical armour than Elemental.

I was worried before going into the Ring of Fire that my Flame Warrior's armanents wouldn't be so effective against the (mostly) fire-dwelling inhabitants of the Ring. After some experimentation, however, I soon found that I was still doing more damage with the fiery sword (for the record, the +15% damage when enchanted collector's longword from the desert with Fiery and Enchanting mods, not a FDS, though I do carry one of the latter for amusement value) than with a physical sword with the same damage range (note that I wasn't using any enchantments at the time).

+15 dmg once every 10 hits or +50 dmg over 10 hits. I wonder which one is better?

btw, i use a vampiric flatbow with FW(+6dmg), kindle arow(+18dmg), and conjure flame(+10 dmg) for an added +39 dmg to the base dmg of the bow PER HIT (+78 for dual shot and +53 + AP with pen attack), and using tigers fury, your dmg output will be between 200-300 dmg every 4 secs.

Assuming anyone cares about this month old topic.

Sundering is good as a switch off, assuming you dont like elemental or conditions.

Furious and Vamp are way better.

Well first off, I think posting to only say that surrending users are morons is a bit cheap...

Just a quick story before I try to defend surrending bow strings:

In the tombs:
X: Why are you using a poisonous bow here? lmao!
Me: Because I dont only play here and can't afford to buy 50 perfect short bows with different strings. D'OH!
Y: I'm wielding a Surrending stormbow of fortitude!
(after a few seconds)
Me: You don't ask her why she's using a surrending string vs unarmored monsters?

Yeah, I defintly agree with the fact that most of the players don't know how to use a surrending, and don't even realize that its bonus works only against some kind of ennemies.

But still...

Let's have a look at the different strings available:
Fiery String
Ebon String
Icy String
Shocking String
Poisoners String
Zealous String
Vampiric String
Sundering String
Marksmanship String
(let's forget the charrslaying etc strings, despite the fact that they can be really usefull if you use to farm most of the time in the same place)

Concerning the elemental strings, their bonus may be really good for farming if you equip the right bow against the right monster (which implies to have lots of money to invest in many good bows) but are not that useful in PvP unless combined with some skills (ex: firey string+mark of Rodgort), or even ridiculous (I love when my oponent keeps using his firey weapon while I have my drakescale on :P).

Poisoners strings now: I used to have that equiped (and I still have a poisonous bow) but it's only useful in PvP when you put some presure on the opposing monks in poisoning everybody one by one. The length of apply poison is enough to keep anyone poisoned if you keep tagetting him since you'll hit him every 2 secs or so - even if you miss one time he'll still be poisoned. And in PvE the 1st strategy is useless (poisoning everybody), therefore: not needed at all.

Zealous String: yeah that's useful but only to help regen when you're energy is low. Zealous bows are typically the kind of bows you only use when needed, before switching again to a more "conventional" bow. That's different for other weapons however.

Vampiric Strings: here we go, the so loved vampiric. 5 extra damages with a perfect vampiric, I guess everybody agrees with the fact that's great. Yeah, but there is the malus. -1 health degen. In a PvE barrage built you can forget it (the malus I mean). But when you're under preasure in a tight fight, umm. Use the vampiric when you're fine. If you're in trouble, considering the fact that it takes 2sec minimum to shoot an arrow (without skills), that may just make you die quicker.

So what's left? Marksmanship. Marksmanship increases the damages dealt with your bow. More marks=more damages then. And it boosts some of your skills. Double bonus then. Definitly better than surending against unarmored foes. But... how +1 marks will increase your attack? Yeah 16 marks is better than 15 and 17 better than 16. But honestly, could you make the difference between a 16 marks ranger and a 17 marks ranger (with the string, and when lucky) just looking at his damage? Yeah you prolly deal 1 more damage, maybe 2? And what the point of having this string when you're not marks based? But still marks string may be great with some skills.

So remain... surrending strings.

All the strings have their own specificity, and their own correct use. If you want to compare surrending to another string, compare it to marks strings, not to vampiric strings. Again, vampiric strings are good but you cant compare them to surrending strings. The vamp malus make their possible use completly different.

Now I guess the only way to avoid an useless argue would be to go to the training camp next to the temple of Balthazar and test the damage dealt on the targets with 2 bows of the same kind, one perfect surrending, and one perfect marks. I bet on the surrending vs the armors. But again, marks also boosts your skills...

OMFG. you owe me a keyboard for spitting half my iced tea all over mine

Seriously, people think that the chance of them doing another like 1 dmg point is worth the money to sepnd on it. there are so many more useful mods, but hey, if someone wants to spend the mney on a sundering mod, then ill sure sell them one.

where is this string? oh thats right its a bowgrip

There isn't many things that are actually greatly useful in this game, so you end up with a bunch of people trying to find something to love about nothing to keep them interested in the game and it also keeps their excitement going a little longer. There is really only a handful of things in this game which are incredibly useful and special, such as the HoD sword. Of course that costs like half a mil.

That's hilarious.

I wonder how many threads like these it'll take for the mis-informed GW players to realise how bad this mod is. Every month or so some new thread opens about it and still these mods are still selling at high prices.

The only sundering mod I use is on one of my hammers. 'Cause hitting for over 100 dmg is fun.


I see the price slowly going down for perfect sundering mods. Maybe people finally figured it out?

Try Elona Reach minos. They drop more cash.

Uhh, if you're not hitting for 100+ without sundering you're definitely doing something wrong...

seconded my hammer warrior hits for well over 100 sans sundering

I'm convinced a large percentage of players who favor sundering, confuse critical hits with a sundering trigger.

Also, I'm not entierly sure why people seem to like Furious so much as well. A 10% chance at one extra strike of adrenaline isn't anything special.

Now if there was a critical hits grip, there'd be some serious competition. +5% chance? I dunno.

Err, that there conjure isn't doing jack. Conjure only adds dmg when you're already using an elemental weapon of the same element. In your case, you'd need a Fiery mod. Otherwise, it's a waste of 10 energy. Unless you're using a + while enchanted, in which case you'd probably be better suited to go R/Mo and use Judge's to actually get some effect out of your enchantment.

In general unmolested usage, the vamp mod is about enough to maintain your health, while adding 5 unconditional dmg on every hit. One pip degen is only 2 hp/second damage, so as long as you get in a hit every 2.5 sec, you'll at least be maintaining. Even if not, I would certainly call that one pip negligible. Granted, you want to have a non-vamp bow to carry when not in combat, but in general combat, it's the best bow string to have. Adding to the Zealous sidebar, you only need to score a hit every 3 seconds to offset the loss of regen. Where vamp (and zealous, for that matter) really shines is in volume. When using barrage or a typical dual/savage combo for spiking, you're getting 3 or more hits in the space of about a second for 15+ dmg unconditional, not to mention the hp gain outweighs the 2-4 dmg you take from the mod. If you're under any kind of IAS buff, such as Tiger's Fury or Lightning Reflexes, then you'll be getting the equivalent of another bow attack or three over the course of the stance from just the vamp mod.

These examples also extend to the warrior. The Warrior's DPS is gotten solely by melee hits in volume, so a vamp wep will only supplement you in your strength. Only thing you need to remember to do is switch out when not in immediate combat. And maybe when fresh off a non-sig res.

I'd be curious to know how the numbers stack up in the Poisoner's vs. elemental comparison. Both are best when used in conjunction with a skill (Apply or Poison Arrow vs. Conjure), though Conjure can be a bit of a liability with enchantment removal, and Apply has to be applied twice to Conjure's once (or 5 Apply to every 2 Conjure to be more exact), though Apply's affected by Expertise where Conjure isn't. Elemental strings, especially when chosen appropriately (and with some luck) can circumvent a lot of armor bonuses out there, such as the +20 from Glad's armor. Anyway, both have pro's and con's, and I'm interested in the logic behind your statement.

Kindle Arrows causes a bow to do fiery damage, so no bowstring is needed.

Sundering Sucks end of story

Vampiric > Sundering hands down.

Furious is nice, as it gives you something that doesnt degen you when not in combat, and in an entirely adrenal based build (like ragemending) compliements your fighting style very well.

Vampiric is good because it gives life stealing at the cost of one pip of HP degeneration. Furious is good because it gives you a 10% chance to get Dbl Adrenaline at no cost. Sundering on the other hand...just plain sucks. It's kind of like 1% AP an attack, lol. Why is it prized? Because it is rare. I find 3/1 Vamp gold swords A LOT more than 10/10 Sundering gold swords. If something is rare, people think it is good. So they think it is really valuable, they want to put it on their swords and then go about and brag. Whatever, sundering SUCKS.

"Im wielding a sundering longb--"
Hag: "SUNDERING NOOOOO!"

*snicker*

Okay, it was a good post anyway. So, er... yeah. Since Sundering and Furious are the only mods without a drawback, it's somewhat understandable why some people would use Sundering if they had no adrenaline skills. Personally I think it's got more to do with the fact it's rare, you know... the same reason people "flash" their greens.

Also, to anyone who's thrown insults at the collector-types. Unless you're running around in drok's armour and wielding collector weapons, you're being rather hypocritical.

I am inclined to say each to his own but i think each mod type shine in specific build types used either in PvP or Farming in PvE.

For example:

Horn bows with sundering string, judges, sundering shot and read the wind for spike or farming undead.

Sword with Furious hilt, hundred blades, sever, gash, Galrath Slash and Balthazar's Aura to farm trolls/ettins.

Thanks you Ensign, for painting all PvE players with your prejudiced brush, and re-enforcing the notion that PvP players are leet snobs.

So you're saying he's wrong? You realise how ridiculous that sounds don't you?

"Ensign isn't right" <---- LOLOLOL

Eh, I can't see a way to refute his points regardless of how harsh you think they may be.

Swords swing at a rate of once every 1.33 seconds. That is 0.75atk/s, 45atk/min. Furious will trigger an average of 4.5 times per min. One attack is worth 25 strikes of adrenaline, and on average, furious will generate 1.875 strikes of adrenaline per second. Evicerate takes 200 strikes to charge fully. Sure, it's better under IAS... 60 attacks per second will generate rougly 2.5 strikes of adrenaline per second. Under Battle Rage, you'll generate 3.75 strikes of adrenaline per second, keeping in mind that one physical attack is worth 25. Heck, under battle rage you might generate enough adreanline from furious to squeze in another exe-strike per min. Or you could take the extra damage from vamp. Keep in mind that when attacking a warrior, an elemental weapon will deal more damage than vamp.


I think the idea here is that a ranger using apply posion, will be rotating targets. The extra 33% duration, even if it extends Apply Posion's duration by only a second, will deal more damage than sundering. An elemental string would only deal extra damage to a warrior. Since you'd be likely be rotating targets with an apply posion ranger, extra damage to just a few targets isn't really important, especialy when those targets aren't a priority.

Ensign, not all PvE people have terrible equipment. Yes, I will admit, many do wear Platemail to look cool...but a lot of people wear Glad's. That is what core warrior PvP players wear even though it makes them look like a porn-star wannabe.

For *many* PvE players, fashion > function. But *some* PvE players do have good equipment and use the Drok's 15^50 weps and customize them w/ perf. mods. It isn't common as everyone wants to show off their Felly or Crystalline, but there are some PvE players who value function > fashion. Not everyone of course, but there are *some* people.

lol i though they look more like AFL football players with the chest set and helm porn-star wannabes....i am gonna have fun with this next time i see one.

Vindexus/Katari,

He wasn't disputing that Sundering has no real use and barely beats "un-modded", he was refering to Ensign's passive "PvE players are morons" mannerisms.

Thank you for reinforcing the notion that PvE players are hypersensitive morons.


Do I honestly have to spell out explicitly that I'm talking about generalities, about the norms, about what is typical instead of extreme, with every single comment? Can't I assume that when we're talking about popularity, demograpics, and trends that we're only interested in what is common?

Do you honestly think that I'm so stupid that you have to explain to me that not every single PvE player is concerned with form over function?


Which group is a vast majority? Which group forms the bulk of the economy in this game and drives prices?


Dispute with evidence that the five mentioned observations are not accurate representations of the general PvE population.

You can argue until you're blue in the face that I'm a bad person or that stereotypes are unfair, or anything else you happen to dislike about me bringing them up. But ask yourself why any of those arguments are even relevant. The only argument that will crush any stereotype is that it's not true. If it's not true it's pretty easy to see that it's ridiculous, and poof, no more stereotype.

But you know what?

Most stereotypes are true. Not only are they true, but they hurt because they're true.

Peace,
-CxE